From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 09 11:55:52 2015 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2015 16:55:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38476 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YKrcl-0000bC-OF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Feb 2015 11:55:52 -0500 Received: from fely.am-1.org ([78.47.74.50]:43039) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YKrcj-0000b2-HN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Feb 2015 11:55:50 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=siamics.net; s=a2013295; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:Sender:References:Subject:To:From; bh=V/Pp4oJdwYmzCSjX5JTSEVqSOIAoj/Vv2YyqWR48YXI=; b=FnT+wPlYE1gYuNpJIBItiODUg3XZ2vVgsy259FARkaslC8JjO8l3arOAPISlYNMR7/LjDH4uftNb0x7eMZNowDvcF9F9x7oVAj/XWoYh277TqVUJ8GbPEXaWTfFLpYSpqo0cNoViTypgPkccoCT20zwTi/MG99V9xVQTTit1VDM=; Received: from [2a02:2560:6d4:26ca::1:1d] (helo=violet.siamics.net) by fely.am-1.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YKrch-0001Io-1m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Feb 2015 16:55:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=violet.siamics.net) by violet.siamics.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YKrcW-0003iS-HT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Feb 2015 23:55:36 +0700 From: Ivan Shmakov To: submit@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87mwcmb8nx.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87r3wz7h0e.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <877fxricgb.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87fvbfy8xv.fsf@violet.siamics.net> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 16:55:35 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87fvbfy8xv.fsf@violet.siamics.net> (Ivan Shmakov's message of "Mon, 12 Jan 2015 21:40:12 +0000") Message-ID: <87mw4ndny0.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) Package: emacs Severity: wishlist The handling of the news: (nntp:), irc:, and (as it seems) ftp: (file:) URI schemes is implemented in such a way that a /successful/ url-retrieve call is /not/ in fact guaranteed to return a =E2=80=9Cretrieved document=E2=80=9D of any kind. Consider, e. g= .: (let ((url-proxy-services nil)) (list (url-retrieve "news://news.aioe.org/alt.sources" (lambda (&rest any) (message "news: %S" any))) (url-retrieve "irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/x-test-channel" (lambda (&rest any) (message "irc: %S" any))))) Here, the first call starts up Gnus and opens a *Summary* buffer for the group; the second starts Rcirc by default; either call returns nil. I=E2=80=99d expect for these two calls to instead produce the buffers /describing/ those respective resources =E2=80=93 the newsgroup (say, its XOVER data) and the IRC channel (the server responses to a few IRC commands issued for the channel.) That is: I=E2=80=99d expect url-retrieve to behave much like wget(1), =E2=80=93 /not/ like, say, run-mailcap(1). Naturally, this is orthogonal to the use of Gnus, Rcirc, etc. to do the actual job; and also to the ability to spawn them via M-x browse-url. (Which seems unsupported, anyway.) As for the possible implementation, there may be a separate dynamic variable (say, url-retrieve-action) to tell the scheme handlers whether they should only try to retrieve the URI (and signal an error if not supported), or that they /may/ resort to the current behavior (i. e., start up some scheme-specific interaction facility.) Alternatively, url-retrieve may be changed to pass an additional non-nil argument to the scheme handler function in the case that the call is not intended to result in further user interaction. There may be either a separate call (url-run?) to request such an interaction, or a new argument to url-retrieve. --=20 FSF associate member #7257 http://boycottsystemd.org/ =E2=80=A6 3013 B6A0= 230E 334A From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 25 14:01:06 2015 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2015 19:01:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35320 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aCXbo-0003nY-1Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2015 14:01:06 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:41114) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aCXbl-0003nN-W3 for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2015 14:00:58 -0500 Received: from 2.150.58.24.tmi.telenormobil.no ([2.150.58.24] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1aCXbP-0002tp-82; Fri, 25 Dec 2015 20:00:35 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Ivan Shmakov Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87mwcmb8nx.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87r3wz7h0e.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <877fxricgb.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87fvbfy8xv.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87mw4ndny0.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 20:00:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87mw4ndny0.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> (Ivan Shmakov's message of "Mon, 09 Feb 2015 16:55:35 +0000") Message-ID: <87r3iawdyl.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MailScanner-ID: 1aCXbP-0002tp-82 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1451674835.58307@5RP4WTz1hNMPiaKX8fZK/g X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Ivan Shmakov writes: > The handling of the news: (nntp:), irc:, and (as it seems) ftp: > (file:) URI schemes is implemented in such a way that a > /successful/ url-retrieve call is /not/ in fact guaranteed to > return a =93retrieved document=94 of any kind. Consider, e. g.: > > (let ((url-proxy-services nil)) > (list (url-retrieve "news://news.aioe.org/alt.sources" > (lambda (&rest any) (message "news: %S" any))) > (url-retrieve "irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/x-test-channel" > (lambda (&rest any) (message "irc: %S" any))))) > > Here, the first call starts up Gnus and opens a *Summary* buffer > for the group; the second starts Rcirc by default; either call > returns nil. I think all these non-http{s,} things in the URL library should be marked obsolete and removed. There is very little utility to them (some have been broken for years without anybody noticing), and they are very fiddly to maintain. Anybody mind if I remove them for Emacs 25.2? --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 25 18:48:04 2015 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2015 23:48:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36156 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aCc5c-00015Q-1T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2015 18:48:04 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:49638) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aCc5a-00014p-B8 for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2015 18:48:02 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id tBPNlui2012194 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Dec 2015 23:47:56 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tBPNlsSG026915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Dec 2015 23:47:54 GMT Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tBPNlsM4004496; Fri, 25 Dec 2015 23:47:54 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 15:47:55 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Ivan Shmakov Subject: RE: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87mwcmb8nx.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87r3wz7h0e.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <877fxricgb.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87fvbfy8xv.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87mw4ndny0.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87r3iawdyl.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87r3iawdyl.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > I think all these non-http{s,} things in the URL library should be > marked obsolete and removed. There is very little utility to them (some > have been broken for years without anybody noticing), and they are very > fiddly to maintain. >=20 > Anybody mind if I remove them for Emacs 25.2? 1. Such a proposal should explicitly list each of the "things" you propose to mark as obsolete. 2. Marking something as obsolete (deprecating it) does not imply that you can remove it. Normally (although I do know that Emacs is not necessarily normal) deprecated "things" remain, and remain supported for quite some time before they are desupported. And that means that their supporting code remains (is not removed). Or did you perhaps mean remove only from "the URL library", and not remove from Emacs? (All of this said, I probably do not care, personally, what you do with the unspecified "non-http{s,} things in the URL library" that you want to remove.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 28 17:07:55 2015 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2015 22:07:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46851 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aDfxH-00028a-Mo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 17:07:55 -0500 Received: from mail-qk0-f178.google.com ([209.85.220.178]:35430) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aDfxC-00028G-QU for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 17:07:50 -0500 Received: by mail-qk0-f178.google.com with SMTP id n135so79244535qka.2 for <19822@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 14:07:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lifelogs.com; s=google; h=from:to:cc:subject:organization:references:mail-copies-to :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type; bh=jpwVJbsVvNs797bBsevAydXv6H0q3jRZgDDTVrn3DMQ=; b=TI0E7Ydig5XtMsL0oP6x+zwbvllxSnzqULEkxqtUSjp1Hp3pKJXBP2j8pnluwKy78b ouaDjcrQ0i2FrHtNYBV614/0/pGcED/NDe5DozpMzmiMIRBFWbIBUrzwj4k5X2LRvyAT N4bzygPYGdWxxN6MKV6HP1PkRoFUzcquXd33k= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:organization:references :mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=jpwVJbsVvNs797bBsevAydXv6H0q3jRZgDDTVrn3DMQ=; b=nJMuiSDrhVQrfjNEAgwjcpuc4YZzkFDUx70yaZCXchW86qcB8tkSqrYGn5JoQdteJ6 9cbpqy+u0YQrs9EKQOn67zvd1tnOerhxKUAe5Kpp/nH5ac1jPVewvYqmIXryv2roLgeX R0BN6oX+j/59QlX/kpb8DyXWeTWCx5yJwGwK6w2zKfAr2mHLNqpn65KUukLKR+6N0N1C RdiVcIz+0wdligzzO+2sqwOPIxu/UBthL2OlE00TXFUg1pi5oljyffXOtpFr3TSAOgWn 5LLqoIJZ3uJjS6HzgpyY4+LeKY0ZR1+GnzZxIcuWhiC50mn/S3h/qSgIwDO4DUM9br7w oiHw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnqYGoO0XhNqrL/x9/d0h/rdDHeH580elaaZHfAuHV0S3a7FxNy8dtX/UfiGhNN38o6kLFktwujpBpmQLWcxG8WTEcDaw== X-Received: by 10.55.79.86 with SMTP id d83mr74348951qkb.22.1451340461348; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 14:07:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from flea ([98.229.60.157]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q71sm28167828qkl.3.2015.12.28.14.07.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Dec 2015 14:07:40 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Zlatanov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos References: <87mwcmb8nx.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87r3wz7h0e.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <877fxricgb.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87fvbfy8xv.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87mw4ndny0.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87r3iawdyl.fsf__1890.34737782112$1451070147$gmane$org@gnus.org> X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 17:07:40 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87r3iawdyl.fsf__1890.34737782112$1451070147$gmane$org@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 25 Dec 2015 20:00:34 +0100") Message-ID: <87fuym1b2r.fsf@lifelogs.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 20:00:34 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: LI> I think all these non-http{s,} things in the URL library should be LI> marked obsolete and removed. There is very little utility to them (some LI> have been broken for years without anybody noticing), and they are very LI> fiddly to maintain. LI> Anybody mind if I remove them for Emacs 25.2? I'd leave at least the ftp and file protocols. Ted From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 28 17:31:22 2015 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2015 22:31:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46883 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aDgK2-0002mX-4e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 17:31:22 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:50857) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aDgK1-0002mQ-Ct for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 17:31:21 -0500 Received: from 2.150.58.24.tmi.telenormobil.no ([2.150.58.24] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1aDgJb-0007AC-PF; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 23:30:56 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Ivan Shmakov Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87mwcmb8nx.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87r3wz7h0e.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <877fxricgb.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87fvbfy8xv.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87mw4ndny0.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87r3iawdyl.fsf__1890.34737782112$1451070147$gmane$org@gnus.org> <87fuym1b2r.fsf@lifelogs.com> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 23:30:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87fuym1b2r.fsf@lifelogs.com> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Mon, 28 Dec 2015 17:07:40 -0500") Message-ID: <87twn2qk82.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1aDgJb-0007AC-PF X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1451946658.02376@wKLC6euqe8lfMOUrY5cMmA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Ted Zlatanov writes: > I'd leave at least the ftp and file protocols. Mm, yes. But the rest could be retired, I think. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 29 21:04:18 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2019 01:04:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56293 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEk6o-0003k2-Si for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:04:18 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f177.google.com ([209.85.214.177]:43145) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEk6j-0003ji-Tz for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:04:13 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f177.google.com with SMTP id f21so3215360plj.10 for <19822@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 18:04:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=b/4Pvu/42h7IzZs5vPCpZu3Tj7ov2oTptUk28Xcr3qs=; b=Q38APVJarfVvVfjbw3xhB6AcHltAePJiez7s+Zg4wUcL/GbQbacJ8D5KmTH1QuLNcD 6S38MCXz0vO+XSzE5QEx1mB+PgAGR9Qe95WcWXxKj2RqFIBeuPpJ+v7/iavPg9mpr2ZL e16d4SZV3aoWeexA9eylbBhueUHQ0WWQaCUthEx332VgXN9w90czqIy3u84EeXxPRhD5 lR33F7ARoE9PAskXZOahi4MIBIyGTvyhjVBTbqR8Zq+M7Ow+hamCgwucgXfDeeGsgt6d 0XMwto3F0IWxp6P86fEQ1I4DYuJqVRBJVunH3UB3kX3md78cszuIEpc+ml7eQHIivS8/ D/qw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXhzsFviMnu4j5SKFt4OWL4Yw65rIY4galZ2IvD4dIQR25GI71G pHAkHy64bha0cMOyHJbqzsZ8rUi9cya2vWD37oU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy8mpNANg7XI1lKwSQ/zJ1OLqRJv34TxfB7I/B5pwksknb1C1bMvEBz7EkihHrRa92Di7surwdFTO9cPohIfXU= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d88f:: with SMTP id b15mr16649948plz.251.1569805444275; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 18:04:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 03:03:53 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Ivan Shmakov writes: > >> The handling of the news: (nntp:), irc:, and (as it seems) ftp: >> (file:) URI schemes is implemented in such a way that a >> /successful/ url-retrieve call is /not/ in fact guaranteed to >> return a =E2=80=9Cretrieved document=E2=80=9D of any kind. Consider, e.= g.: >> >> (let ((url-proxy-services nil)) >> (list (url-retrieve "news://news.aioe.org/alt.sources" >> (lambda (&rest any) (message "news: %S" any))) >> (url-retrieve "irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/x-test-channel" >> (lambda (&rest any) (message "irc: %S" any))))) >> >> Here, the first call starts up Gnus and opens a *Summary* buffer >> for the group; the second starts Rcirc by default; either call >> returns nil. > > I think all these non-http{s,} things in the URL library should be > marked obsolete and removed. There is very little utility to them (some > have been broken for years without anybody noticing), and they are very > fiddly to maintain. > > Anybody mind if I remove them for Emacs 25.2? Hi Lars, This is a good idea, but it seems like it was never done? There was no one protesting the proposal at the time (December 2015). Perhaps we should move some of them to obsolete/ before Emacs 27.1? Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 30 01:48:06 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2019 05:48:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56555 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEoXW-0000Lf-N8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 01:48:06 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:43948) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEoXU-0000LW-EB for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 01:48:04 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iEoX9-0003bV-Dg; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 07:47:45 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 07:47:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Mon, 30 Sep 2019 03:03:53 +0200") Message-ID: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > This is a good idea, but it seems like it was never done? There was > no one protesting the proposal at the time (December 2015). Perhaps > we should move some of them to obsolete/ before Emacs 27.1 [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > This is a good idea, but it seems like it was never done? There was > no one protesting the proposal at the time (December 2015). Perhaps > we should move some of them to obsolete/ before Emacs 27.1? I think that would be good, but Eli should probably weigh in here. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 30 03:21:53 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2019 07:21:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56708 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEq0D-00014i-CY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 03:21:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33143) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEq07-00014K-KO for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 03:21:47 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34121) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iEpzZ-000553-E9; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 03:21:09 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3576 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iEpzY-0005s3-RT; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 03:21:09 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 10:21:06 +0300 Message-Id: <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-reply-to: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Mon, 30 Sep 2019 07:47:43 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, ivan@siamics.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 07:47:43 +0200 > Cc: 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov > > Stefan Kangas writes: > > > This is a good idea, but it seems like it was never done? There was > > no one protesting the proposal at the time (December 2015). Perhaps > > we should move some of them to obsolete/ before Emacs 27.1? > > I think that would be good, but Eli should probably weigh in here. I'm not sure I understand the proposal: we are being asked to remove ftp:, news:, etc. from being supported by the URL library? I think those protocols are still widely used, no? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 30 03:30:54 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2019 07:30:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56748 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEq8y-00026Z-V1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 03:30:54 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:46178) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEq8w-000247-W2 for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 03:30:51 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iEq8i-0004eI-KZ; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 09:30:38 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 09:30:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 30 Sep 2019 10:21:06 +0300") Message-ID: <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure I understand the proposal: we are being asked to remove > ftp:, news:, etc. from being supported by the URL library? I think > those protocols are still widely used, no? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, ivan@siamics.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure I understand the proposal: we are being asked to remove > ftp:, news:, etc. from being supported by the URL library? I think > those protocols are still widely used, no? Not ftp:, but news: and gopher: and the other obscure ones. They aren't used a lot and some of them do not work at all currently. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 30 04:22:44 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2019 08:22:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56896 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEqx6-0002gD-86 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 04:22:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41475) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEqx0-0002fv-R8 for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 04:22:38 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35359) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iEqwp-0002MT-Bg; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 04:22:23 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3364 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iEqwn-0007fG-W9; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 04:22:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:22:20 +0300 Message-Id: <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-reply-to: <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Mon, 30 Sep 2019 09:30:36 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, ivan@siamics.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, ivan@siamics.net > Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 09:30:36 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > I'm not sure I understand the proposal: we are being asked to remove > > ftp:, news:, etc. from being supported by the URL library? I think > > those protocols are still widely used, no? > > Not ftp:, but news: and gopher: and the other obscure ones. > > They aren't used a lot and some of them do not work at all currently. How are network news URL referenced, if not by 'news:'? Anyway, can we please have an explicit list of those we'd like to deprecate, and some usage numbers to back that? I'd like to have some more firm basis for this decision, if possible. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 30 10:40:28 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2019 14:40:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60055 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEwqh-0001ez-Vy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 10:40:28 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:54698) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEwqf-0001eq-JK for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 10:40:26 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iEwqJ-0002MD-0t; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 16:40:05 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 16:40:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:22:20 +0300") Message-ID: <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > How are network news URL referenced, if not by 'news:'? They aren't, really. You use a newsreader to read news -- no modern browser supports news: URLs. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, ivan@siamics.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > How are network news URL referenced, if not by 'news:'? They aren't, really. You use a newsreader to read news -- no modern browser supports news: URLs. > Anyway, can we please have an explicit list of those we'd like to > deprecate, and some usage numbers to back that? I'd like to have some > more firm basis for this decision, if possible. Geez. Gathering the list of schemes supported is more work than I thought, because it's not an explicit list. Here's the schemes it supports: imap: file: http: https: ldap: mail: mailto: man: info: data: news: snews: nfs: ftp: rlogin: telnet: tn3270: Of these, file:, http:, https:, data: and ftp: are the only ones that are useful. But on consideration, perhaps it's just best to leave them all as they are to smoulder. As you may remember, there's a with-fetched-url branch that reimplements the entire URL interface, and it only supports the modern schemes. (I'm planning on merging when master goes to Emacs 28.) So we can leave the url.el interfaces alone as a backwards-compatible stuff and then pension off the entire url.el machinery in, say, Emacs 34. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 30 11:06:35 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2019 15:06:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60154 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iExFv-0006XK-97 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:06:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49884) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iExFp-0006Wx-5x for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:06:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40944) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iExFG-0002kB-Nz; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:05:50 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4835 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iExFD-0004sZ-KJ; Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:05:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 18:05:45 +0300 Message-Id: <83tv8tbz92.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-reply-to: <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Mon, 30 Sep 2019 16:40:02 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, ivan@siamics.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, ivan@siamics.net > Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 16:40:02 +0200 > > But on consideration, perhaps it's just best to leave them all as they > are to smoulder. As you may remember, there's a with-fetched-url branch > that reimplements the entire URL interface, and it only supports the > modern schemes. (I'm planning on merging when master goes to Emacs 28.) > > So we can leave the url.el interfaces alone as a backwards-compatible > stuff and then pension off the entire url.el machinery in, say, Emacs 34. Fine with me, thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 01 09:19:48 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2019 13:19:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32860 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFI4C-0007Cb-Kl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:19:48 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f171.google.com ([209.85.210.171]:46348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFI4A-0007CO-NY for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:19:47 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f171.google.com with SMTP id q5so7959488pfg.13 for <19822@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 06:19:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=W3yxGYYgYq2vTuANzTdGPJ/7deFPgHIvhrYaABr18qI=; b=QHSL2js628YA35ZHb+8ILLykkeGgJejHtmaqsW8UQZsnIMeWxVO+sUQEoX5sNRRiIp rumSPTgqF23pVcBaEMuSHTdEl2/UKWKNfTLZSANk/7RHG69xiKKz8TJM8VoW+WekSa7N DU1KrQHDmcUtr5k+f9Nuep5KypNTlmt0POuaNoXQ2E9002tqFa7g42NTIjOGHC6ap02u z46Mw6OCf6Wrr8llQ50WY0OIGAH8Cn2b0fkIVaaNY35TwQkbwD0HMR1tWiS3VCUlGJ04 T/JWoKkfmuie3Z5Q6R0zkU574d8DedCgSdSfrys++thAwZ+1nvO/qMKZZSBEDuR9SBEJ IQ8A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUwcmzEswJkQ45N9Fmk/8TEnOprysDjwTBmxCpwfErJ11i1QW6V 94fQmkLf5ak60SDH8DTjCqUtgtdprXn9DOfr1rA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwLHNzxQxdbxAGab4blVVXTGBniLYxmVwIOPObSZeIE0pPJa0xPj92L43OkcjWHBMIZ+4qlNh6kTB+fmB/thiU= X-Received: by 2002:a62:e917:: with SMTP id j23mr27688625pfh.50.1569935980623; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 06:19:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 15:19:28 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Of these, file:, http:, https:, data: and ftp: are the only ones that > are useful. > > But on consideration, perhaps it's just best to leave them all as they > are to smoulder. As you may remember, there's a with-fetched-url branch > that reimplements the entire URL interface, and it only supports the > modern schemes. (I'm planning on merging when master goes to Emacs 28.) > > So we can leave the url.el interfaces alone as a backwards-compatible > stuff and then pension off the entire url.el machinery in, say, Emacs 34. I don't feel very strongly about this, but I'm curious: Why don't you want to obsolete at least some of them? I think they add user confusion and are just not very helpful. Personally, I wouldn't mind a middle ground here: to only obsolete the very low hanging fruit. To be more concrete, it doesn't seem to me that it would take much effort to immediately obsolete url-irc.el, url-news.el, url-imap.el and url-ns.el. I could volunteer to cook up a patch if that's indeed something we want to do. Otherwise, I suggest to close this bug report as wontfix. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 01 09:37:59 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2019 13:37:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32877 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFILj-0001Eh-5M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:37:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49117) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFILd-0001EP-Eh for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:37:53 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33194) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iFILS-0002Xk-2F; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:37:38 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4051 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iFILR-0002tA-9L; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:37:37 -0400 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 16:37:35 +0300 Message-Id: <83imp8a8o0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 1 Oct 2019 15:19:28 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, ivan@siamics.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 15:19:28 +0200 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov > > > So we can leave the url.el interfaces alone as a backwards-compatible > > stuff and then pension off the entire url.el machinery in, say, Emacs 34. > > I don't feel very strongly about this, but I'm curious: Why don't you > want to obsolete at least some of them? I think they add user > confusion and are just not very helpful. How would obsoleting them help avoid that confusion? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 01 09:44:34 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2019 13:44:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32910 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFISA-0001Qt-K2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:44:34 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f175.google.com ([209.85.210.175]:41890) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFIS8-0001Qg-VM for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:44:33 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f175.google.com with SMTP id q7so8027282pfh.8 for <19822@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 06:44:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0/yiT65eDJ41zJdwqziNWrLmV/ACZPGMJv+K7yjMAlU=; b=IfcziIk4M3UMq50II0F+kawZI6iHXfAz+8qlK6c1dKCR3MVgFuhowLsn6VR2F9rcm+ kOtg/hZeT5JgLuuLTCuh7U3mdRGW7L6K0dXyadLag1j8kfznFpSbXp6PodXcF4IUAqo3 WZY2l2Sze5PZvU2MARF1cCUARNXA3ZBHBybeDF5rsEL2rPSgpq+nRQ+wbCb65S0JflMv q994q+sqT1Q5ZLo3jB2US6rXo8mJGtqpIHE3u64HZ7lEMGGRDFeHyl7DNBpDntftdAdh pG8DVv2pj7j+7G1rGRvjalUm1AiNRAQ3Q7vZu70/GuKuqO5X1Tdm5X9i66PcoJQjG98E ebPw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXB5UD9wqQLtIIeAnxpVUhz+fPZAO2ZK5d2yqpxxekcR5dbrQZg y+1afXAioct/ZPR6rhvqsTrYJr/9kxq5lRgl6XQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw8UGlWT7LOYY61meSVivzgi+s3yMw612VwC5iL3dCcPYFTdNoQChkrT44XV7CXgby6PFCDb10LuRCmUrN1KNw= X-Received: by 2002:a63:720f:: with SMTP id n15mr28903745pgc.198.1569937467082; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 06:44:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> <83imp8a8o0.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83imp8a8o0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 15:44:15 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > > I don't feel very strongly about this, but I'm curious: Why don't you > > want to obsolete at least some of them? I think they add user > > confusion and are just not very helpful. > > How would obsoleting them help avoid that confusion? I think in at least two ways: 1. Obsoleting is a fairly strong sign that this is code that it's probably better to avoid. 2. AFAIU, the point of obsoleting a file is to eventually remove it. If it doesn't exist, it can't confuse anyone. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 01 09:56:41 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2019 13:56:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34215 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFIdt-00046A-BG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:56:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:51722) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFIdn-000464-NP for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:56:37 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iFIdT-0003jL-E6; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 15:56:17 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 15:56:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 1 Oct 2019 15:19:28 +0200") Message-ID: <87pnjg603k.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > I don't feel very strongly about this, but I'm curious: Why don't you > want to obsolete at least some of them? I think they add user > confusion and are just not very helpful. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > I don't feel very strongly about this, but I'm curious: Why don't you > want to obsolete at least some of them? I think they add user > confusion and are just not very helpful. I think an across-the-board obsoletion is easier to communicate than doing it piece by piece. But I don't feel very strongly about this, either. > Personally, I wouldn't mind a middle ground here: to only obsolete the > very low hanging fruit. To be more concrete, it doesn't seem to me > that it would take much effort to immediately obsolete url-irc.el, > url-news.el, url-imap.el and url-ns.el. Oh, I missed irc: and ns:. :-/ Yes, those are pretty useless... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 01 10:06:21 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2019 14:06:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34225 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFInF-0006OC-Kx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 10:06:21 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f169.google.com ([209.85.210.169]:42647) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFInD-0006Nw-LA for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 10:06:20 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f169.google.com with SMTP id q12so8073412pff.9 for <19822@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 07:06:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BV9NhfIFGx1pN+RJsuLDHXnmfCh4TSpBsvoWLIoVWgM=; b=jOIszTLicq8BBUHN5k9EiGiDDej2X7aAqv7RMExrJ3ixUZ1RKKhJ74Ya+TJKulK78g d+y7sLRHvzaOS63QMMNTPOqpdVNHXOYuJMQxnKBHyTAQihDGAxXLmfR1KsL2jtwpljrP T7yubrNoylVBjTWpGjfB9adBF9Y9sGcnCqm/VoXg0M8QbGg5sdsp4DX0dp/w2V9ERgI+ 37heQMWIvOExlbkpFUAaIKwocHCgLjuxbYbvw5i+X+qIsu5RAcx4qfSBBnSLHwlPs2Mv hn+fdcdWhhzX5AQHjlMP/8GL9Irp3wJNiY8u4cr0NIlLG58n2K7ySYlNk0PYXcYo3H7x w8lw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV9qpVsa/nFxEHBm7gvzuyixRfKv5Wuh3RxBR793Qpix5bSQGr0 zalDxBsXkvEzjCDacBM8paI60G/mSm7JYCApXDg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy7tVgJA98/5sQ6zocsBJV+i/e3CXNtUsnuSuAtHoMibFADVFAziRyx3XavXC71sN3/zYLAkSoGvKGqv+EP87w= X-Received: by 2002:a63:720f:: with SMTP id n15mr28995019pgc.198.1569938773666; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 07:06:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> <87pnjg603k.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87pnjg603k.fsf@gnus.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 16:06:00 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > I don't feel very strongly about this, but I'm curious: Why don't you > > want to obsolete at least some of them? I think they add user > > confusion and are just not very helpful. > > I think an across-the-board obsoletion is easier to communicate than > doing it piece by piece. Good point, thanks. > > Personally, I wouldn't mind a middle ground here: to only obsolete the > > very low hanging fruit. To be more concrete, it doesn't seem to me > > that it would take much effort to immediately obsolete url-irc.el, > > url-news.el, url-imap.el and url-ns.el. > > Oh, I missed irc: and ns:. :-/ Yes, those are pretty useless... Given the above, how about just obsoleting url-ns.el? This file handles Netscape configuration files, and there should be no problem communicating the irrelevancy of that. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 01 10:25:01 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2019 14:25:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34249 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFJ5I-0000R2-LJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 10:25:00 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f174.google.com ([209.85.210.174]:43543) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFJ5G-0000Qq-LX for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 10:24:59 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f174.google.com with SMTP id a2so8117988pfo.10 for <19822@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 07:24:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oU0uiqC0yubiJfrqMMnHhV3QrZU7hLliaWuRWy0vDfA=; b=Y56ZyN2Bnznd9Dx9V3mQMLzwzItdni8PtoSB9vFyz/n2teVwHcfOY8Ei4bzH5Au47f MVrwSILnmopUX8Wq1dKX47HMNbwwbazBn43m0In+sa16XEhAM3L3l23w6bXivTtiNQpC Wu3BGTXtatfAbeKkTFx0ioBgLttiCVzBILWE7COqGbH97gkOjMvNQXawhpGclujasuQn 3CY8UkI2nouUEeRBnsvZJJ5kJqMGLXfp/LkWU18aMCxLfqHfIHkQDbDOl0Mdyt29+yyQ TU4gBhEnOspn3kG+0D7kFOqkDy+SyNCzc9x6wj7h9xryHQICg6NTgB03fTATHPmh05NO sx9A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU+UDny0plTowCLvypTltlIOITkUi89YI6RML5A79owQGMiOXEG CaCCAXq3vpC4F024bFTfYDJiNvYKMOGpVMWAYqk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxKFS87KI7f8OtDrJqIuUveRepktD1pOh4ZMTjCyt0sXyAD4q+7nMcHisdlJISXX+Gg4Ke4ATsMyJGH13n9LEM= X-Received: by 2002:a65:5802:: with SMTP id g2mr24829280pgr.333.1569939892806; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 07:24:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> <87pnjg603k.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: From: Stefan Kangas Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 16:24:39 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000a142d90593da1d8c" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --000000000000a142d90593da1d8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Stefan Kangas writes: > Given the above, how about just obsoleting url-ns.el? This file > handles Netscape configuration files, and there should be no problem > communicating the irrelevancy of that. Patch attached. Best regards, Stefan Kangas --000000000000a142d90593da1d8c Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="0001-Move-url-ns.el-to-obsolete.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Move-url-ns.el-to-obsolete.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k17xnvz70 RnJvbSA2YTVkNDE3ZjY4OTVhYmNiZjYxYjg2MjZiYTU3N2IwNmJhMDJjYjhiIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBUdWUsIDEgT2N0IDIwMTkgMTY6MjA6MDIgKzAyMDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BBVENIXSBN b3ZlIHVybC1ucy5lbCB0byBvYnNvbGV0ZS8KCiogbGlzcC91cmwvdXJsLW5zLmVsOiBNb3ZlIGZy b20gaGVyZS4uLgoqIGxpc3Avb2Jzb2xldGUvdXJsLW5zLmVsOiAuLi50byBoZXJlLiAgKEJ1ZyMx OTgyMikKLS0tCiBldGMvTkVXUyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB8IDUgKysrKysKIGxp c3Ave3VybCA9PiBvYnNvbGV0ZX0vdXJsLW5zLmVsIHwgNiArKysrKysKIDIgZmlsZXMgY2hhbmdl ZCwgMTEgaW5zZXJ0aW9ucygrKQogcmVuYW1lIGxpc3Ave3VybCA9PiBvYnNvbGV0ZX0vdXJsLW5z LmVsICg5NiUpCgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvZXRjL05FV1MgYi9ldGMvTkVXUwppbmRleCA5YTllMjVi ZWE5Li5jZjRhNDQwZGE2IDEwMDY0NAotLS0gYS9ldGMvTkVXUworKysgYi9ldGMvTkVXUwpAQCAt MjY3OSw2ICsyNjc5LDExIEBAIGRpcmVjdG9yaWVzIGlmIHlvdSBhc2sgaXQgZm9yIGEgImZpbGU6 Ly8vZGlyIiBVUkwuICBTaW5jZSB0aGlzIGlzIGEKIGxvdy1sZXZlbCBsaWJyYXJ5LCBzdWNoIGRl Y2lzaW9ucyAoaWYgdGhleSBhcmUgdG8gYmUgbWFkZSBhdCBhbGwpIGFyZQogbGVmdCB0byBoaWdo ZXItbGV2ZWwgZnVuY3Rpb25zLgogCistLS0KKyoqIFRoZSB1cmwtbnMuZWwgbGlicmFyeSBpcyBu b3cgbWFya2VkIG9ic29sZXRlLgorVGhpcyBsaWJyYXJ5IGlzIHVzZWQgdG8gb3BlbiBjb25maWd1 cmF0aW9uIGZpbGVzIGZvciB0aGUgbG9uZyBkZWZ1bmN0Cit3ZWIgYnJvd3NlciBOZXRzY2FwZSwg YW5kIGlzIG5vIGxvbmdlciByZWxldmFudC4KKwogKiogSW1hZ2UgbW9kZQogCiAqKiogTmV3IGxp YnJhcnkgRXhpZi4KZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2xpc3AvdXJsL3VybC1ucy5lbCBiL2xpc3Avb2Jzb2xl dGUvdXJsLW5zLmVsCnNpbWlsYXJpdHkgaW5kZXggOTYlCnJlbmFtZSBmcm9tIGxpc3AvdXJsL3Vy bC1ucy5lbApyZW5hbWUgdG8gbGlzcC9vYnNvbGV0ZS91cmwtbnMuZWwKaW5kZXggNzMzZjNhOWU0 Ny4uYTMwMWU0NjFhZCAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvbGlzcC91cmwvdXJsLW5zLmVsCisrKyBiL2xpc3Av b2Jzb2xldGUvdXJsLW5zLmVsCkBAIC0zLDYgKzMsNyBAQAogOzsgQ29weXJpZ2h0IChDKSAxOTk3 LTE5OTksIDIwMDQtMjAxOSBGcmVlIFNvZnR3YXJlIEZvdW5kYXRpb24sIEluYy4KIAogOzsgS2V5 d29yZHM6IGNvbW0sIGRhdGEsIHByb2Nlc3NlcywgaHlwZXJtZWRpYQorOzsgT2Jzb2xldGUtc2lu Y2U6IDI3LjEKIAogOzsgVGhpcyBmaWxlIGlzIHBhcnQgb2YgR05VIEVtYWNzLgogCkBAIC0xOSw2 ICsyMCwxMSBAQAogOzsgWW91IHNob3VsZCBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIGEgY29weSBvZiB0aGUgR05V IEdlbmVyYWwgUHVibGljIExpY2Vuc2UKIDs7IGFsb25nIHdpdGggR05VIEVtYWNzLiAgSWYgbm90 LCBzZWUgPGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmdudS5vcmcvbGljZW5zZXMvPi4KIAorOzs7IENvbW1lbnRhcnk6 CisKKzs7IFRoaXMgZmlsZSBpcyBvYnNvbGV0ZS4gIEZvciBtb3JlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCBzZWU6 Cis7OyBodHRwczovL2RlYmJ1Z3MuZ251Lm9yZy8xOTgyMgorCiA7OzsgQ29kZToKIAogKHJlcXVp cmUgJ3VybC1ndykKLS0gCjIuMjMuMAoK --000000000000a142d90593da1d8c-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 01 10:52:09 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2019 14:52:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34297 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFJVV-00017Y-JU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 10:52:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60113) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFJVQ-000171-F7 for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 10:52:04 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34514) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iFJVF-0001hV-5P; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 10:51:49 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4676 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iFJVE-0000XL-FQ; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 10:51:48 -0400 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 17:51:49 +0300 Message-Id: <83ftkca58b.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 1 Oct 2019 15:44:15 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> <83imp8a8o0.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, ivan@siamics.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 15:44:15 +0200 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > > I don't feel very strongly about this, but I'm curious: Why don't you > > > want to obsolete at least some of them? I think they add user > > > confusion and are just not very helpful. > > > > How would obsoleting them help avoid that confusion? > > I think in at least two ways: > > 1. Obsoleting is a fairly strong sign that this is code that it's > probably better to avoid. > > 2. AFAIU, the point of obsoleting a file is to eventually remove it. > If it doesn't exist, it can't confuse anyone. I understand how removing will end the confusion. What I don't quite understand is how obsoleting will help avoiding the confusion. I think the obsolete messages just add to the confusion, not take away. Lars suggested to let this stuff become fallback, which means users will see the confusing stuff much less frequently. That made sense to me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 01 11:13:54 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2019 15:13:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34385 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFJqc-0003oe-3T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 11:13:54 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f181.google.com ([209.85.214.181]:34840) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFJqa-0003oS-GJ for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 11:13:52 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f181.google.com with SMTP id y10so5627660plp.2 for <19822@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 08:13:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lVU/JUDQBtYx1Xh5BSgzor60h8VZuKvOPZ5laXFyj7Y=; b=a9Q95ic5dUVIs98eDo2YwSHM6VOwCFfFnCYgyr5H/bPJaMqs/fekGComonG6xphELv WEyNnwI+1s/UXNslNA8NY55erkBPHCwuZakoRLkrefIQ0zWHU4PXNTvlmRR5n4cATC6A 75bqgVIGPbfyTlFZf4kHhccaRa3gU8orR+ACiOSWLRe2r6lTNMOFtZCYVnZnhCK6CEsv j9ZtYxtjzCDBdc/nlsFCpAX1sUyyWjM8sRya32UAixrqi4z/HYoj3W7iRq2SLJCYmMqq 1L+Z3IRQE0d/rZzV5n7aZiFGq2RKg3dG1K5l33aNa7sUmtxh8gjaC4vdizQgXgsSlTuX Jh5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUJDJi1zX7lokJwRn7O32kG+JUgw6dbdZdON9M2o7FASyrYE8ji z1UtcZo16E0fKUig0Y4BQqulscaldZhjepaI1Zo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwC84megkf1tlj0yukuwM0zDKPEBhpOCfA0jp8HjRGln14IBNiHONalQdHLlBKBE0cwU2KhGyO/gPEiNk8QXgc= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:326:: with SMTP id 35mr27235698pld.128.1569942826538; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 08:13:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> <83imp8a8o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftkca58b.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83ftkca58b.fsf@gnu.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 17:13:34 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I understand how removing will end the confusion. What I don't quite > understand is how obsoleting will help avoiding the confusion. I > think the obsolete messages just add to the confusion, not take away. I see your point. > Lars suggested to let this stuff become fallback, which means users > will see the confusing stuff much less frequently. That made sense to > me. Yes, I agree. However, I did provide a patch to obsolete the Netscape code, as a special case. Please let me know if that patch should be installed or not -- either way is fine with me. Once we have a decision on that, I think we should close this particular bug as wontfix. Perhaps we should also look over to see if there are any other bug reports which deserve closing too, since any efforts are probably better spent improving the with-fetched-url branch. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 01 11:14:21 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2019 15:14:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34389 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFJr2-0003ps-Cq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 11:14:21 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:53410) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFJr0-0003ph-HX for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 11:14:19 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iFJqg-0004Uq-T4; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 17:14:01 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> <87pnjg603k.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 17:13:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 1 Oct 2019 16:24:39 +0200") Message-ID: <874l0s4hxl.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > +** The url-ns.el library is now marked obsolete. > +This library is used to open configuration files for the long defunct > +web browser Netscape, and is no longer relevant. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > +** The url-ns.el library is now marked obsolete. > +This library is used to open configuration files for the long defunct > +web browser Netscape, and is no longer relevant. Looks good to me. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 01 11:24:55 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2019 15:24:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34403 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFK1D-00069f-RX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 11:24:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37206) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFK18-00069M-5G for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 11:24:50 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35140) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iFK0u-00089B-Ht; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 11:24:32 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2720 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iFK0p-0003JG-1T; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 11:24:28 -0400 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 18:24:26 +0300 Message-Id: <83blv0a3px.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 1 Oct 2019 17:13:34 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> <83imp8a8o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftkca58b.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, ivan@siamics.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 17:13:34 +0200 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov > > However, I did provide a patch to obsolete the Netscape code, as a > special case. Please let me know if that patch should be installed or > not -- either way is fine with me. I'll let Lars decide. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 01 12:07:48 2019 Received: (at 19822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2019 16:07:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34561 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFKgl-00058L-Pe for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 12:07:48 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f175.google.com ([209.85.210.175]:45440) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iFKgj-00057z-FR for 19822@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 12:07:45 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f175.google.com with SMTP id y72so8307700pfb.12 for <19822@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:07:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fR/zGoe1/vGni6eAmd6BERVTJp6g5VDmCC8DYRN/HBM=; b=IvF/v0mQQj4cUwFiihvVeU6Dl14qpDEvCykrIbZqVLkAmSbTceS/MQra9DVgvlakXu HIsse3zUduuT7+wlyq2hwYRNSHToXrh20F9GykFy67VHTwW1jlf+vERX2kjWdNwlwhm9 Vjz8MK3IZfufL4AFl9Xdc4ceNzSLzoi5/Znu0YbeqnErRnQUEgrJ3irMnQ4yR84JN1fN vQQllb9cE+k6Pol11uoF1eikYg202b8cjLFS5OOAvI9HkmUh1y3QbQHka+lmOSKQ0xki iZadag53U2RHr1glqTPYwxJwy8ZmKkD5312ZBpC6EQtgB771SAjc58d3vHHsAZQIT0rc vdQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUmqVm/MKxpKEYxcStoUFfurMWstUox0PXxlVy5p9hi2hAA6Lg+ pAcRIJ9kRpbJ6+8y9Qt13ZMKoGdjE8KWSn4AaXQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxlXk7EhePSHV9t04jscWzH20PkPRR8MsnK9//9CVLtS8D3KtkaxMeHydrZnfWA47J3v8v5y+o3rfbL+aE3DwY= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:1150:: with SMTP id d16mr6616337pje.2.1569946059594; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:07:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87o8z2l4hs.fsf@gnus.org> <835zladzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wodqgs0z.fsf@gnus.org> <83tv8uchxf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7aldf0d.fsf@gnus.org> <87pnjg603k.fsf@gnus.org> <874l0s4hxl.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <874l0s4hxl.fsf@gnus.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 18:07:26 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#19822: url-retrieve: allow to fail when no document is associated with the URI To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19822 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 19822@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) tags 19822 + wontfix close 19822 thanks Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > +** The url-ns.el library is now marked obsolete. > > +This library is used to open configuration files for the long defunct > > +web browser Netscape, and is no longer relevant. > > Looks good to me. Thanks, now pushed to master as commit 41f59e71e2. I'm also closing this bug as wontfix, since the consensus seems to be that it's not worth making any changes here at this point. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Tue Jun 24 22:36:39 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator