From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 06 12:13:51 2015 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2015 17:13:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35833 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YJmTW-0004mR-Mk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 12:13:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53352) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YJmTU-0004mD-QC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 12:13:49 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YJmTN-0005ak-Fy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 12:13:43 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:49772) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YJmTN-0005aT-Dn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 12:13:41 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55049) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YJmTJ-0002rX-8f for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 12:13:37 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YJmTG-0005YS-D6 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 12:13:37 -0500 Received: from na3sys009aog101.obsmtp.com ([74.125.149.67]:49546 helo=mail-pd0-f181.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YJmTG-0005Y2-6f for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 12:13:34 -0500 Received: from mail-pd0-f181.google.com ([209.85.192.181]) (using TLSv1) by na3sys009aob101.postini.com ([74.125.148.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKVNT2PHzNA6FmyQCG7/+g4MrNie0jQj/9@postini.com; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 09:13:34 PST Received: by pdjz10 with SMTP id z10so15915980pdj.13 for ; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 09:13:31 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=4TBwPxcf+xq9GyyMmx6rBFCooT6b38otVzZYuOkqv/g=; b=Em3tmQd3BLGTm7iH95xJU9D9xx8ENyMKXudqnmR/9PNWVBoRsuV7plgwO2w6RviGEC 0HJtMdoh02o3aGp9w9xQpGnVdYD2JdSugSkiwVFDpDU0VzYJiqHXZdIqAsHrUOz8sP7W /zAdO7B3KjZoVo4VlTAsGcsnqcyB0/J7p4Imtj36+dRBUnTFOjsK4CDD9XkMQ8akdcn+ lz7/+kW5rzW3nQaC6KgLuaHF/2KctqoyCQtSDWW+Tby1XpdTZbY5gkveu4SX5hmS8nx3 9OPqW7IGb+4WvzrZN+TfNOTCQ7BGCTm9XoocyEcxzFGbMp+LR7HkCU6kMbF+J/nmFJ/U +o7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmLFJWeOUoVTDP2/rwFrIP+Np2GjOqXiCdk2vbfh5o2xijHj6Frn6QoU3RvERS+0w4WRKxHOrBl2bvRW52sI5las7gToB7KVXbtImIM5ooUFdcI6J6Zvz1ApRryYGl2BWnAj8YYEXh8ebKqI2rxnUMqEQd81Q== X-Received: by 10.66.218.104 with SMTP id pf8mr7554630pac.140.1423242811720; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 09:13:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.218.104 with SMTP id pf8mr7554616pac.140.1423242811639; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 09:13:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.43.100 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Feb 2015 09:13:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 12:13:31 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Allow for stateless users and groups in GuixSD From: "Thompson, David" To: bug-guix@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Currently, removing a user account from the users list in an OS config does not remove the user account from a system when 'guix system reconfigure' is run. I think that user accounts not specified in the user accounts list should be invalidated and that /etc/passwd and other files be fully rebuilt each time. In other words, I want a stateless /etc/passwd, not a stateful one. As Mark brought up on IRC, this proposed change in behavior may very well surprise and frustrate another subset of users, so perhaps the existing behavior should be preserved, with a bit that can be flipped for stateless user accounts. Thoughts? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 06 13:09:05 2015 Received: (at 19795) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2015 18:09:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35860 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YJnKz-0006Cq-4O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 13:09:05 -0500 Received: from mail-we0-f181.google.com ([74.125.82.181]:43120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YJmih-0005Am-0q for 19795@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 12:29:31 -0500 Received: by mail-we0-f181.google.com with SMTP id k48so15043117wev.12 for <19795@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 09:29:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:date:reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-type; bh=g8RR0GnVZEWNlBM6oddgA2tfa/5nij7Kl+/jBNuqLCA=; b=UmceWd40scygnRgZAiJDo18HFvWWnmF7FCqqgSEH8wWsd0OByVmi4YeQKyK2jYCUVg IoJlrChx55IK+GiAge9tEqUMJDEIGUGjPGw//TLauKqOcfdjORo08ywo/dxsKz+FPXDw kzmumZ/924YJP9hFJCIckRVvjyXqZm32q8XNGk71HX9pTaTHEast2S2qOSsdO8O00vzn YaMJMPTmq3jd0q3x9OTG01lTvGOVSkomQtf6hnluE/Ve0axjUNQFAqw3hr2TxemFDgGT DnTBfVWbFWhPML77hHCJWUGm+rTgTSv13l22973W9dxP4ZFOvAkS/XUsEODOt/Pvu/Kl lFRg== X-Received: by 10.180.75.80 with SMTP id a16mr5423361wiw.3.1423243765351; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 09:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from yamato.home (vodsl-10845.vo.lu. [85.93.208.93]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id e18sm4192012wjz.27.2015.02.06.09.29.20 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Feb 2015 09:29:20 -0800 (PST) References: From: Alex Sassmannshausen To: "Thompson\, David" Subject: Re: bug#19795: Allow for stateless users and groups in GuixSD Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2015 18:24:23 +0100 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <874mqzar3y.fsf@yamato.home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19795 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 06 Feb 2015 13:09:04 -0500 Cc: 19795@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Hello, My 2c: In short +1! Thompson, David writes: > Currently, removing a user account from the users list in an OS config > does not remove the user account from a system when 'guix system > reconfigure' is run. I think that user accounts not specified in the > user accounts list should be invalidated and that /etc/passwd and > other files be fully rebuilt each time. In other words, I want a > stateless /etc/passwd, not a stateful one. I would love this functionality: it feels intuitive for a functional package manager. > As Mark brought up on IRC, this proposed change in behavior may very > well surprise and frustrate another subset of users, so perhaps the > existing behavior should be preserved, with a bit that can be flipped > for stateless user accounts. I agree that perhaps statefulness should be the default for now, as that seems the "common way to do things". Alex From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 07 04:10:37 2015 Received: (at 19795) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2015 09:10:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36079 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YK1PR-0002YR-F6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 Feb 2015 04:10:37 -0500 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.187]:51694) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YK1PO-0002YD-LA for 19795@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 Feb 2015 04:10:35 -0500 Received: from debian ([82.66.2.95]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue005) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LrXNx-1XcgOn0ARx-013PdW; Sat, 07 Feb 2015 10:10:28 +0100 Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 10:10:23 +0100 From: Andreas Enge To: "Thompson, David" Subject: Re: bug#19795: Allow for stateless users and groups in GuixSD Message-ID: <20150207091023.GA12524@debian> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:eFnNtYdeJiLnUsoVG1Bl2plHSQKKZ6ECT1/BF/q8b+q3UhMWPrY IX9QX/lFBQEFOF9KVEay9WygMCYVmcSj8FMvVFofp6DFC4ejU3QUs8I4NukcAmagZ75FJOD Dwqe5QJ2gez8ZuQCqyFniNVLirMh8t4CxAMdfFOK3WW9bGjVUaKKCwEvXX/BuU9jbDHzFKc an7IALdDiRNzsBVyfIr4A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19795 Cc: 19795@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Hello, I agree, it is rather surprising that removing a user does not remove it. So I think it should be fully stateless (as long as the user's home directory is not erased, of course; so this should remain as a state and be reactivated once the user is available again, which could cause problems with user names vs. numbers). Andreas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 07 22:08:01 2015 Received: (at 19795) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2015 03:08:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37000 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YKIE5-00066r-8r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 Feb 2015 22:08:01 -0500 Received: from world.peace.net ([50.252.239.5]:44289 ident=hope8) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YKIE3-00066k-Gk for 19795@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 Feb 2015 22:07:59 -0500 Received: from [10.1.10.11] (helo=jojen) by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1YKIDw-0002kz-Lw; Sat, 07 Feb 2015 22:07:52 -0500 From: Mark H Weaver To: Andreas Enge Subject: Re: bug#19795: Allow for stateless users and groups in GuixSD References: <20150207091023.GA12524@debian> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 22:07:59 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20150207091023.GA12524@debian> (Andreas Enge's message of "Sat, 7 Feb 2015 10:10:23 +0100") Message-ID: <87iofd14og.fsf@netris.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19795 Cc: 19795@debbugs.gnu.org, "Thompson, David" X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Andreas Enge writes: > I agree, it is rather surprising that removing a user does not remove it. > So I think it should be fully stateless (as long as the user's home > directory is not erased, of course; so this should remain as a state and > be reactivated once the user is available again, which could cause problems > with user names vs. numbers). If we do this, I think we should take steps to prevent users+groups from being added, removed, group memberships changed, setting of passwords, etc, outside of 'guix system reconfigure'. I think that users will be very unhappy with us if commands like 'passwd' and 'useradd' work as expected, but are undone the next time they update their system. My position is that we should support both stateful or stateless operation for some aspects of our configuration. For example, consider wireless network configuration. Most casual users want this to be stateful. They will want to be able to use a nice GUI applet to connect to a wireless network, and have the system remember the authentication info and to connect to that network automatically in the future, etc. I don't want GuixSD to forget that information the next time I update, or if I roll-back, etc. However, for some applications it may be preferable to have the wireless configuration completely stateless and specified in the OS config, e.g. for a headless server that's connected via wireless. I think it's the same way with users+groups. For my personal system, I might want to be able to add a user without updating its software at the same time (which might involve a lot of downloading and/or compiling), and I don't want the new user to be erased if I roll-back. Even for many kinds of servers, I don't think it makes sense to tie the users+groups to the system configuration. Most of the time I don't want that. But for some other kinds of servers, I think I would want it. So, I think we should support both modes. My two cents... Mark From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 08 09:33:03 2015 Received: (at 19795) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2015 14:33:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37190 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YKSv0-0007pC-HM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Feb 2015 09:33:03 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:33100 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YKSut-0007ot-Rv for 19795@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Feb 2015 09:32:56 -0500 Received: from reverse-83.fdn.fr ([80.67.176.83]:44483 helo=pluto) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YKSus-00089q-UV; Sun, 08 Feb 2015 09:32:55 -0500 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: Mark H Weaver Subject: Re: bug#19795: Allow for stateless users and groups in GuixSD References: <20150207091023.GA12524@debian> <87iofd14og.fsf@netris.org> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2015 15:32:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87iofd14og.fsf@netris.org> (Mark H. Weaver's message of "Sat, 07 Feb 2015 22:07:59 -0500") Message-ID: <87egq0scbv.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19795 Cc: "Thompson, David" , Andreas Enge , 19795@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Mark H Weaver skribis: > If we do this, I think we should take steps to prevent users+groups from > being added, removed, group memberships changed, setting of passwords, > etc, outside of 'guix system reconfigure'. I think that users will be > very unhappy with us if commands like 'passwd' and 'useradd' work as > expected, but are undone the next time they update their system. Just to be clear about the current situation: everything is stateless, with the exception of passwords (=E2=80=98reconfigure=E2=80=99 does not alt= er them) and user accounts that are not removed (the crux of this report.) Apart from passwords, any modification is undoed on the next =E2=80=98reconfigure=E2=80=99 or on the next reboot. See notably e2b464b7,= which took a step to ensure that user account settings in the OS declaration are fully honored. In response to this bug report, I would just add activation code that removes any unknown user accounts. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 08 15:44:05 2015 Received: (at 19795-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2015 19:44:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49507 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YfvtM-0001IY-Hb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 15:44:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:44053 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YfvtJ-0001I1-4v for 19795-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 15:44:01 -0400 Received: from reverse-83.fdn.fr ([80.67.176.83]:56686 helo=pluto) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YfvtI-0006b5-Db; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 15:44:00 -0400 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: Mark H Weaver Subject: Re: bug#19795: Allow for stateless users and groups in GuixSD References: <20150207091023.GA12524@debian> <87iofd14og.fsf@netris.org> <87egq0scbv.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 21:43:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87egq0scbv.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Court\=C3\=A8s\=22'\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?s\?\= message of "Sun, 08 Feb 2015 15:32:52 +0100") Message-ID: <87pp7etngi.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19795-done Cc: "Thompson, David" , Andreas Enge , 19795-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Court=C3=A8s) skribis: > In response to this bug report, I would just add activation code that > removes any unknown user accounts. Commit 9bea87a does that. Let me know if it wipes all your user accounts or anything! :-) (Seriously though, I=E2=80=99ve run it on my machine and everything is fine= .) Ludo=E2=80=99. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:24:35 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator