From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:01:52 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#19604 <19604@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#19604 <19604@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: echo --help does not work Reply-To: bug#19604 <19604@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2025 05:01:52 +0000 retitle 19604 echo --help does not work reassign 19604 coreutils submitter 19604 prateek goyal severity 19604 normal tag 19604 notabug thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 15 02:05:03 2015 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2015 07:05:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57325 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBeUI-00060O-Gp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 02:05:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37743) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdnP-0004sL-Iz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:20:44 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdnJ-0008AY-Mm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:20:38 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:33343) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdnJ-0008AP-Ke for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:20:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39464) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdnI-0000LF-Sl for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:20:37 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdnI-00089j-0j for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:20:36 -0500 Received: from mail-wi0-x22a.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::22a]:54413) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdnH-00088v-P5 for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:20:35 -0500 Received: by mail-wi0-f170.google.com with SMTP id z2so152074wiv.1 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:20:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Xp4aUQGIjIuCNafPmHaK+wej+rhxOBPVpS83rULOLzY=; b=t1YDhjosumKr6uqWhaueQYonS48WWb3SL5ufI02546L9f8qmXpWNbqYBVqUiL59N9/ 0h7+pitdbcE/Ai8lJw1qnw5CCT5MldqQ7jopoKRlYAZDmQCmwOyB29Uf7aWG8C24yynZ TFEdhg+Tf2FdEH3inqw/ngHww4aTa4V3dlIKHfuoq3jfYS9rj9Q4004nmFU6NPv+IZj8 UvNWtTs0wG9PmfajF+9kBA1Y4UfVBaBsAAwtGpikQYXgqoJh0PFey4nSPIJeKo6ioT8z zdCKYKhZPRmfSAIIHkanqDiQYymNfAjnCjPAobtCic9aIRJk0FkGqsY0oLa6jaBLuGGt KPzA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.190.162 with SMTP id gr2mr5682488wjc.13.1421302834653; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:20:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.27.85.170 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:20:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:50:34 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: echo --help does not work From: prateek goyal To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b62499893f3dd050caada0b X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -3.8 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 02:04:59 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.8 (---) --047d7b62499893f3dd050caada0b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, when I try to use --help option with echo command, it does not print help contents, but prints "--help". prateek@prateek-pc:~/Documents/awk$ echo --help --help Version and OS: Linux prateek-pc 3.13.0-32-generic #57-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jul 15 03:51:08 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux -- *Thanks,Prateek Goyal* --047d7b62499893f3dd050caada0b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,


when I try to use --help option = with echo command, it does not print help contents, but prints "--help= ".


prateek@prateek-pc:~/Documents/awk$ echo --help
--hel= p


Version and OS:

Linux prateek-pc 3.13.0-32-generic #57-= Ubuntu SMP Tue Jul 15 03:51:08 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<= br clear=3D"all">

--
Thanks,
Prateek Goya= l

--047d7b62499893f3dd050caada0b-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 15 06:36:47 2015 Received: (at 19604) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2015 11:36:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57380 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBijG-0008TE-Ng for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 06:36:46 -0500 Received: from mail5.vodafone.ie ([213.233.128.176]:10991) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBijC-0008Sn-80; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 06:36:42 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag4FAEqlt1RtTnDJ/2dsb2JhbABagwaCTYFixjKCTwKBFkMBAQEBAX2EDQEFIw8BVgsNCwICBSECAg8CRgYBDAgBAYgsAbwrhWmODgELIIEhjl+CaIFBBZhqhSWIGYM9IoNuPoJ0AQEB Received: from unknown (HELO localhost.localdomain) ([109.78.112.201]) by mail3.vodafone.ie with ESMTP; 15 Jan 2015 11:36:32 +0000 Message-ID: <54B7A640.50907@draigBrady.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:36:32 +0000 From: =?UTF-8?B?UMOhZHJhaWcgQnJhZHk=?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: prateek goyal , 19604@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#19604: echo --help does not work References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19604 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) tag 19604 notabug close 19604 stop On 15/01/15 06:20, prateek goyal wrote: > Hi, > > > when I try to use --help option with echo command, it does not print help contents, but prints "--help". > > > prateek@prateek-pc:~/Documents/awk$ echo --help > --help You're actually using your shell's echo there. To use the coreutils one: env echo --help To invoke help for the shell builtin in bash you: help echo Note newer versions of bash will support $builtin --help, though I've not tested the echo case which would introduce a change in behavior. thanks, Pádraig. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 15 09:09:25 2015 Received: (at 19604) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2015 14:09:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57436 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBl6z-0006Iq-7G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:09:25 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:38461) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBl6x-0006Ig-99 for 19604@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:09:24 -0500 Received: from int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.23]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t0FE9JYV019136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:09:20 -0500 Received: from [10.3.113.41] (ovpn-113-41.phx2.redhat.com [10.3.113.41]) by int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t0FE9IVg019178; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:09:19 -0500 Message-ID: <54B7CA0E.7030002@redhat.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:09:18 -0700 From: Eric Blake Organization: Red Hat, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?UMOhZHJhaWcgQnJhZHk=?= , prateek goyal , 19604@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#19604: echo --help does not work References: <54B7A640.50907@draigBrady.com> In-Reply-To: <54B7A640.50907@draigBrady.com> OpenPGP: url=http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="MRph8doBSV1SxBc9NEmL6rEHXPrX4lKh8" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.23 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19604 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --MRph8doBSV1SxBc9NEmL6rEHXPrX4lKh8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01/15/2015 04:36 AM, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote: > tag 19604 notabug > close 19604 > stop >=20 > On 15/01/15 06:20, prateek goyal wrote: >> Hi, >> >> >> when I try to use --help option with echo command, it does not print h= elp contents, but prints "--help". >> >> >> prateek@prateek-pc:~/Documents/awk$ echo --help >> --help >=20 > You're actually using your shell's echo there. > To use the coreutils one: >=20 > env echo --help Furthermore, the behavior you saw in your shell is required by POSIX. If you do 'env POSIXLY_CORRECT=3D1 echo --help', you will get the same behavior from coreutils as you did from your shell. 'echo' is one of the few utilities that _cannot_ honor --help for compatibility reasons. > Note newer versions of bash will support $builtin --help, > though I've not tested the echo case which would > introduce a change in behavior. If bash changes the behavior of 'echo --help' in POSIX mode, then that would be a bug in bash. --=20 Eric Blake eblake redhat com +1-919-301-3266 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org --MRph8doBSV1SxBc9NEmL6rEHXPrX4lKh8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Public key at http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJUt8oOAAoJEKeha0olJ0NqMWoH/3voFhXXyNjnMlpRrn60Szs5 vStsX4+3Efj+gqOXPlZWWhMrIkWwh9ASjKDASmTrGGnVC5yXkjKIcod642/QBi1K rbqiIRhY1Z9ad5yPenWUGwHVd00pcsu1d43aX7J4sZhOoAyqyxW6HSe10JAwd02S jdZ1A7RdSHQaMeDWjPhXri4ZAkdJg5N71QRrOU8i0j7tk2tAF292z6bP80LdU4cs lroY7oNkeA00aRaQtYbRUZdPgBt5aY/7SgsPByOsQf5SCtJpFrAT25SYgoGQLWuV Te63ctppxUBjBYF1RRVOV/gEwHFr+tegX4iiDcXTXMKKjYBqtmdZptMLpo0MIUk= =tMmm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MRph8doBSV1SxBc9NEmL6rEHXPrX4lKh8-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 15 10:56:00 2015 Received: (at 19604) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2015 15:56:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57879 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBmm7-0000Sx-Q7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:56:00 -0500 Received: from mail-wi0-f175.google.com ([209.85.212.175]:49828) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBmm5-0000Sf-D9 for 19604@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:55:58 -0500 Received: by mail-wi0-f175.google.com with SMTP id l15so36081678wiw.2 for <19604@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:55:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ymhTZ6A3bi7Y5AXmUNBLr8UPzTcMj3g7NJN6+x7xACY=; b=GZHniWAqP4BUOkhm0eDLHRjpNcv3CPyrzhbjOzDzMP2I3N/7pTFi++6yBOhafkG5VB Wyh2zvUzxz11ZyeDHxVz43nICEJFBMPjXq5inIuiGzwN2o1g4C7Wu96fda7v3K9Wm9My U1VgINqdCCGw0/9fYJ/4kIBIk7t1WqK70b2MmJx4nptJ98qa/BlFt3GR/m7YtHrrtetT 6fU764urm28Leb9cDmm1zMlTNxHaGJSPG/Nwz7Z77+v5wchP8TJwX948Pk/eF5nbfwuO nwE16FFKBAeutic4G4BSHMWlWzhKnJEpqzRJ7lVGA8tL8Kxno/nhdO61/CYU7uCGwxeF DFYQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.190.162 with SMTP id gr2mr10713736wjc.13.1421337351693; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.27.85.170 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:55:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54B7CA0E.7030002@redhat.com> References: <54B7A640.50907@draigBrady.com> <54B7CA0E.7030002@redhat.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 21:25:51 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#19604: echo --help does not work From: prateek goyal To: Eric Blake Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b624998f42e28050cb2e3b4 X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19604 Cc: 19604@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig_Brady?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) --047d7b624998f42e28050cb2e3b4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So even if I execute following command, it gives same result: env POSIXLY_CORRECT=3D1 echo --help prateek@prateek-pc:~/Documents/awk$ env POSIXLY_CORRECT=3D1 echo --help --help Thanks, prateek On 15 January 2015 at 19:39, Eric Blake wrote: > On 01/15/2015 04:36 AM, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote: > > tag 19604 notabug > > close 19604 > > stop > > > > On 15/01/15 06:20, prateek goyal wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> > >> when I try to use --help option with echo command, it does not print > help contents, but prints "--help". > >> > >> > >> prateek@prateek-pc:~/Documents/awk$ echo --help > >> --help > > > > You're actually using your shell's echo there. > > To use the coreutils one: > > > > env echo --help > > Furthermore, the behavior you saw in your shell is required by POSIX. > If you do 'env POSIXLY_CORRECT=3D1 echo --help', you will get the same > behavior from coreutils as you did from your shell. 'echo' is one of > the few utilities that _cannot_ honor --help for compatibility reasons. > > > > Note newer versions of bash will support $builtin --help, > > though I've not tested the echo case which would > > introduce a change in behavior. > > If bash changes the behavior of 'echo --help' in POSIX mode, then that > would be a bug in bash. > > -- > Eric Blake eblake redhat com +1-919-301-3266 > Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org > > --=20 *Thanks,Prateek Goyal* --047d7b624998f42e28050cb2e3b4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So even if I execute following command, it gives same= result:

env POSIXLY_CORRECT=3D1 echo --help

prateek@prateek-= pc:~/Documents/awk$ env POSIXLY_CORRECT=3D1 echo --help
--help

Thanks,
prateek
--047d7b624998f42e28050cb2e3b4-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 16 04:49:27 2015 Received: (at 19604) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jan 2015 09:49:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58480 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YC3Ww-00053z-Sx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jan 2015 04:49:27 -0500 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.187]:57949) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YC3Wu-00053j-2W for 19604@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jan 2015 04:49:24 -0500 Received: from [10.0.4.15] ([62.153.148.194]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue005) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MDkte-1XyJDc239K-00H4SD; Fri, 16 Jan 2015 10:49:10 +0100 Message-ID: <54B8DE92.70504@bernhard-voelker.de> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 10:49:06 +0100 From: Bernhard Voelker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: prateek goyal , Eric Blake Subject: Re: bug#19604: echo --help does not work References: <54B7A640.50907@draigBrady.com> <54B7CA0E.7030002@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:kQiffAkPTB6ZRgiVSR3pcbJVAWnCh1XhBTxvX3O2Oi+7OfKN/3y rUa5oRk1/qczUTaxg8166iawjmUAjQLQvfuRA/0JoUa3NPbDvQj8LBNsKXXIrRhzDX/ynUX QJImD+zoVBvuUMFfOFM7HzqWGOGG5prKqDonNrFzAr/qmFizHOXTrTLTnOoPjNmAcY59nQh Izom5lVCSqx8piRwiL5Aw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19604 Cc: 19604@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?B?UMOhZHJhaWcgQnJhZHk=?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On 01/15/2015 04:55 PM, prateek goyal wrote: > So even if I execute following command, it gives same result: > prateek@prateek-pc:~/Documents/awk$ env POSIXLY_CORRECT=1 echo --help > --help That is exactly what Eric said before: POSIX mandates to literally output the string "--help" - which coreutils' echo does if the variable POSIXLY_CORRECT is set. Otherwise, the implementation extends the functionality and adheres to GNU standards which mandates to honor the "--help" option to output the usage message: $ env --unset=POSIXLY_CORRECT echo --help Usage: ... Maybe you were confused by the use of the 'env' utility. You'll get the same by specifying the echo with it's absolute path: $ which echo /usr/bin/echo $ unset POSIXLY_CORRECT $ /usr/bin/echo --help Usage: [...] Have a nice day, Berny From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:01:52 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator