From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 15 01:21:27 2015 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2015 06:21:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57318 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdo6-0004uM-FY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:21:27 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37884) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdo3-0004u3-9k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:21:24 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdnw-0008Gb-J5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:21:18 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:50689) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdnw-0008GX-Gc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:21:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39601) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdnu-0000N4-WA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:21:16 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdnr-0008Ft-NM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:21:14 -0500 Received: from mail-wg0-x230.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c00::230]:36020) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBdnr-0008Fh-D4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:21:11 -0500 Received: by mail-wg0-f48.google.com with SMTP id l2so12930113wgh.7 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:21:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; bh=9tEHkOHN5RiPQcYmSDh6g7X7ZKSZqJ9bwmG9HGHcnQE=; b=jID86Hj+IDqdjzKrSNVsUbX/PkLYratsLYMe5G7CgmeJhAuWXIQzbmP1tUBlLBGDLo iIQaDL9mM/XsjMCpTRy1qsvrExmIbaj8RWSpAKHhRjH9UYfhnRp/J+qH/Jlrd5Urg7tp AZElD/4ZeWJL4ycZvUdFj6ElInNHMYHi9T+HMA2fJw+L0/Lf7YwEG148m4ayjzHfFMOe r6DPNgDGTqm9+GkaU033lTDeg6qFAN+VhyfGx8ZzoZf6tcbR6qivdEiy6zZsG3rSlr+e bZMDp1Bn/Dc2DqrazMOzQxAxbEXHZF44BRSt02qSCPl+6e5KPU49IsTyZ00Z8iv0uAdq CZTg== X-Received: by 10.180.218.39 with SMTP id pd7mr15683402wic.21.1421302869928; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:21:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from dell-14z ([37.160.56.125]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qg11sm21379235wic.17.2015.01.14.22.21.05 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:21:09 -0800 (PST) From: Thierry Volpiatto To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.4.51; Improve emacs startup message. Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:21:02 +0100 Message-ID: <87bnm0zhrl.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Hi, Now emacs packages are widely used, it would be great to improve the startup message of emacs with a link about how to quickly setup package.el to be usable. I have regularly people complaining "It is not working" because they install packages through package.el and they don't add in their init file `package-initialize', or they try compiling autoload file etc... I have provided a link in my Readme file to redirect to a brief documentation on how to use all this, but apparently many don't read this... WDYT ? In GNU Emacs 24.4.51.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.10.8) of 2015-01-11 on dell-14z Repository revision: b544ab561fcb575790c963a2eda51524fa366409 Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11501000 System Description: Ubuntu 14.04.1 LTS Important settings: value of $LANG: fr_FR.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Emacs-Lisp Minor modes in effect: git-gutter-mode: t psession-mode: t golden-ratio-mode: t winner-mode: t global-undo-tree-mode: t undo-tree-mode: t auto-image-file-mode: t eldoc-in-minibuffer-mode: t show-paren-mode: t display-time-mode: t recentf-mode: t savehist-mode: t eldoc-mode: t minibuffer-depth-indicate-mode: t helm-mode: t helm-descbinds-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t helm-adaptive-mode: t helm-match-plugin-mode: t helm-occur-match-plugin-mode: t helm-autoresize-mode: t tooltip-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t column-number-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent messages: Reading active file via nndraft...done Checking new news...done Auto-saving...done Do you really want to mark all articles in gmane.emacs.bugs as read? (y or n) y Do you really want to mark all articles in gmane.emacs.devel as read? (y or n) y Are you sure you want to quit reading news? (y or n) y Saving /home/thierry/.newsrc.eld... Saving file /home/thierry/.newsrc.eld... Wrote /home/thierry/.newsrc.eld Saving /home/thierry/.newsrc.eld...done Load-path shadows: ~/elisp/auctex/lpath hides ~/elisp/emacs-wget/lpath /usr/local/share/emacs/24.4.51/lisp/emacs-lisp/tq hides ~/elisp/emms/lisp/tq Features: (shadow emacsbug helm-command helm-elisp helm-eval gnus-html url-cache gnus-cite gnus-async gnus-bcklg qp gnus-ml nndraft nnmh nnml nnfolder parse-time netrc gnutls network-stream starttls tls gnus-agent gnus-srvr gnus-score score-mode nnvirtual gnus-msg nntp gnus-cache mail-extr epa-mail view solar cal-dst holidays hol-loaddefs smiley gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig w3m-form mule-util add-log conf-mode cc-langs cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs vc-hg jedi python-environment auto-complete popup epc ctable concurrent deferred markdown-mode vc-rcs sh-script smie executable make-mode vc-git naquadah-theme em-unix em-script em-prompt em-ls em-hist em-pred em-glob em-dirs em-cmpl em-basic em-banner em-alias align-let git-gutter server psession golden-ratio winner undo-tree diff slime-xref-browser slime-banner slime-tramp slime-asdf slime-fancy slime-trace-dialog slime-fontifying-fu slime-package-fu slime-references slime-compiler-notes-tree slime-scratch slime-presentations bridge slime-fuzzy slime-fancy-trace slime-fancy-inspector slime-c-p-c slime-editing-commands slime-autodoc slime-repl elp slime-parse slime gud apropos etags arc-mode archive-mode image-file xdvi-search preview-latex tex-site auto-loads pcomplete-extension pcmpl-unix pcmpl-gnu em-term term disp-table ehelp python json eldoc-eval warnings whitespace paren time recentf tree-widget savehist mu4e-config org-mu4e helm-mu mu4e-contrib mu4e mu4e-speedbar speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe mu4e-main mu4e-view mu4e-headers mu4e-compose mu4e-draft mu4e-actions ido rfc2368 mu4e-mark mu4e-message html2text mu4e-proc mu4e-utils mu4e-lists mu4e-about mu4e-vars mu4e-meta gnus-dired nnir gnus-sum gnus-group gnus-undo nnmail mail-source gnus-start gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range gnus-win nnoo config-w3m w3m-search w3m doc-view jka-compr image-mode timezone w3m-hist w3m-fb bookmark-w3m w3m-ems w3m-ccl ccl w3m-favicon w3m-image w3m-proc w3m-util w3m-load smtpmail-async smtpmail sendmail dired-async iterator lacarte iedit-rect iedit iedit-lib smallurl mm-url gnus gnus-ems nnheader wid-edit rectangle-utils rect ledger-config ledger esh-var esh-io esh-cmd esh-opt esh-ext esh-proc eldoc esh-groups eshell esh-module esh-mode esh-arg esh-util tv-utils pcvs vc-cvs pcvs-parse pcvs-info pcvs-defs pcvs-util ewoc mb-depth cl-info hyperspec slime-autoloads esh-toggle flymake no-word htmlize cl dired-extension emms-mpd-config emms-playlist-limit emms-volume emms-volume-amixer emms-i18n emms-history emms-score emms-stream-info emms-metaplaylist-mode emms-bookmarks emms-cue emms-mode-line-icon emms-browser sort emms-playlist-sort emms-last-played emms-player-xine emms-player-mpd tq emms-playing-time emms-lyrics emms-url hl-line emms-tag-editor emms-mark emms-mode-line emms-cache emms-info-ogginfo emms-info-mp3info emms-playlist-mode emms-player-vlc emms-player-mplayer emms-info emms-streams later-do emms-source-playlist emms-source-file emms-player-simple emms-setup emms emms-compat org-config-thierry ob-sh org-crypt appt diary-lib diary-loaddefs org-annotation-helper addressbook-bookmark message rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader firefox-protocol bookmark-firefox-handler bookmark-extensions init-helm-thierry helm-mode helm-dictionary helm-ls-git helm-descbinds helm-ls-hg helm-files image-dired tramp tramp-compat tramp-loaddefs trampver shell dired-x dired-aux ffap thingatpt helm-buffers helm-elscreen helm-tags helm-bookmark helm-adaptive helm-info helm-net browse-url xml url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util url-parse url-vars mailcap bookmark pp helm-help helm-org org org-macro org-footnote org-pcomplete pcomplete org-list org-faces org-entities noutline outline org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-src ob-keys ob-comint ob-core ob-eval org-compat org-macs org-loaddefs format-spec find-func cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs helm-match-plugin helm-grep wgrep-helm wgrep helm-regexp helm-plugin grep helm-external helm-utils dired compile comint ansi-color ring helm-locate helm easy-mmode helm-source vc vc-dispatcher helm-config helm-autoloads async-bytecomp cl-macs gv async helm-aliases epa-file epa derived epg auth-source eieio byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra cconv eieio-core gnus-util mm-util mail-prsvr password-cache package epg-config time-date avoid cus-start cus-load w3m-wget info easymenu edmacro kmacro advice help-fns net-utils cl-loaddefs cl-lib tooltip electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dbusbind gfilenotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 683885 43714) (symbols 48 67146 0) (miscs 40 1390 2179) (strings 32 166781 19653) (string-bytes 1 5011133) (vectors 16 58598) (vector-slots 8 991985 14360) (floats 8 2212 668) (intervals 56 7033 1828) (buffers 960 208) (heap 1024 73577 9284)) -- Thierry Get my Gnupg key: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 15 09:02:37 2015 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2015 14:02:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57432 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBl0P-00069S-4c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:02:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57286) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBl0L-00069F-Sc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:02:34 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBl0F-0005AF-L1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:02:28 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,FSL_HELO_BARE_IP_2, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:40714) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBl0F-0005A6-If for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:02:27 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58975) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBl0B-0005jA-Ja for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:02:27 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBl07-00056s-JH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:02:23 -0500 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:52297) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBl07-00056L-Cg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:02:19 -0500 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YBl03-0002Bv-JB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 15:02:15 +0100 Received: from 198.0.146.153 ([198.0.146.153]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 15:02:15 +0100 Received: from tzz by 198.0.146.153 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 15:02:15 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Ted Zlatanov Subject: Re: bug#19603: 24.4.51; Improve emacs startup message. Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 09:02:05 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <87bnm0zhrl.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.0.146.153 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/25.0.50 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:FwFgAG9w9IurfzDbHIRaXdQDulc= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) On Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:21:02 +0100 Thierry Volpiatto wrote: TV> Now emacs packages are widely used, TV> it would be great to improve the startup message of emacs with a link TV> about how to quickly setup package.el to be usable. TV> I have regularly people complaining "It is not working" because TV> they install packages through package.el and they don't add in their TV> init file `package-initialize', or they try compiling autoload file TV> etc... I have provided a link in my Readme file to redirect to a brief TV> documentation on how to use all this, but apparently many don't read TV> this... I bring this up every 2 years or so; it's time... In Gnus and Emacs we have assistant.el, which could be used to guide the user through the necessary steps to get packages working and then go straight to `list-packages'. Maybe it could be useful here? Ted From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 15 10:12:44 2015 Received: (at 19603) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2015 15:12:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57836 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBm6G-0007nw-Ik for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:12:44 -0500 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:56868) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBm6F-0007np-7t for 19603@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:12:43 -0500 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id t0FFCgsf021495; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:12:42 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 296FF16E8; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:12:42 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Thierry Volpiatto Subject: Re: bug#19603: 24.4.51; Improve emacs startup message. Message-ID: References: <87bnm0zhrl.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:12:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87bnm0zhrl.fsf@gmail.com> (Thierry Volpiatto's message of "Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:21:02 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5187=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5187> : inlines <1768> : streams <1373839> : uri <1842493> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19603 Cc: 19603@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) > Now emacs packages are widely used, > it would be great to improve the startup message of emacs with a link > about how to quickly setup package.el to be usable. > I have regularly people complaining "It is not working" because > they install packages through package.el and they don't add in their > init file `package-initialize', Right, we do call package-initialize automatically for them, but we do it "too late" in many cases. Maybe the best option is to emit some message at startup in the following case: - there are packages installed. - the .emacs file is non-empty. - there is no call to package-initialize in the .emacs file. > or they try compiling autoload file etc... No idea how/why they'd do that, hence no idea how to help them understand they shouldn't/needn't do it. This said, it should do no harm, does it? Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 15 10:40:59 2015 Received: (at 19603) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2015 15:40:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57840 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBmXb-0008US-3T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:40:59 -0500 Received: from mail-wg0-f44.google.com ([74.125.82.44]:54754) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBmXX-0008UC-8X for 19603@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:40:56 -0500 Received: by mail-wg0-f44.google.com with SMTP id y19so15642150wgg.3 for <19603@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:40:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; bh=pqddkm0PoT6gbE2gjjusdVQKQVDFbxW+G0oIODEkJEk=; b=FJZgf4X7nAen4kP9BuOLtFNyjGrBRW3Bu3ua+Jn35Dfy74OofuTb9+0P3skH9xv8XC NrFhJHN+BYJFKaCbm0iKDWlq9mNA2c2BFfvPzJFK4/fgtQj1Zy+lAhaylPN1lPbqr0p0 YFJsr1Ce02d9hh4aL3wpzTj/mZU+jfoKcCFgdIkcKaym8OHGETjtCIoOgq/C+6HG7+GE +i6meur7JoYG+ykn7zG25/Q+0djsdblp9YDkfjRqDxdYuWLpBRFyTI3QtSFtxD8w0kH1 klXY1TMjPjUWVvmqSHDHCJgqVGcoL8n8TGg8ZlN1wTna2LC4XTQma88MRa1tyno6Dwht I7Hg== X-Received: by 10.195.13.77 with SMTP id ew13mr18954411wjd.106.1421336449500; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:40:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from thierry-MS-7309 (lbe83-2-78-243-104-167.fbx.proxad.net. [78.243.104.167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id x2sm2548740wjx.9.2015.01.15.07.40.48 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:40:48 -0800 (PST) References: <87bnm0zhrl.fsf@gmail.com> From: Thierry Volpiatto To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#19603: 24.4.51; Improve emacs startup message. In-reply-to: Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 16:40:47 +0100 Message-ID: <87a91khx1c.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19603 Cc: 19603@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Stefan Monnier writes: >> Now emacs packages are widely used, >> it would be great to improve the startup message of emacs with a link >> about how to quickly setup package.el to be usable. >> I have regularly people complaining "It is not working" because >> they install packages through package.el and they don't add in their >> init file `package-initialize', > > Right, we do call package-initialize automatically for them, but we do > it "too late" in many cases. Maybe the best option is to emit some > message at startup in the following case: > - there are packages installed. > - the .emacs file is non-empty. > - there is no call to package-initialize in the .emacs file. Yeah, anything will be good as long as they are warned. > No idea how/why they'd do that, hence no idea how to help them > understand they shouldn't/needn't do it. This said, it should do no > harm, does it? It should not, normally it should not be possible compiling this, but one time one succeeded to do this, don't know how though, but yes that is not the problem the main problem is package-initialize not called. Thanks. -- Thierry Get my Gnupg key: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 15 16:16:46 2015 Received: (at 19603) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2015 21:16:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58158 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBrmX-0003xr-PO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 16:16:46 -0500 Received: from mail-la0-f49.google.com ([209.85.215.49]:43464) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBrmU-0003xd-Rr for 19603@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 16:16:43 -0500 Received: by mail-la0-f49.google.com with SMTP id hs14so15847810lab.8 for <19603@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 13:16:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=co/MhqtgEtcLkOi16ugOq+OQzNds4XTVlKSqqFq3pRk=; b=QexrXrtn3dSoxEyK0+hUTCIVre+Iy66zfrwNiKXbayJjQ4/8iWE4IIDuNGHRu4r0w/ 4d7imng7N64UN5gyL4Hf52meTm7wy7vlE5wE4CHS5TL7hZRJZRjdEt5zR+HDSgBupKj7 sJqUFKnfzB1uljsyWUrZJKUI6AGI8WjHdBUF9zbRgiSuEuIdo153v1fz3hzsCDlb1Ck1 jcKulIpx8eOPzsIkhMT4DuVXnKSeh5p5yUBdP/YqWyASMSRB8SWPPxwhz0sLyhW4agk8 u0nARxvMUzHpZvUme4ozIG0QsYL+O0HlM4zKYQeQuslP0sg3aRfpHY11esBT/irmvaGe z6TQ== X-Received: by 10.152.116.110 with SMTP id jv14mr1660104lab.33.1421356597018; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 13:16:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([178.252.98.87]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id e1sm901504lah.43.2015.01.15.13.16.36 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 15 Jan 2015 13:16:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54B82E2F.7000105@yandex.ru> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 00:16:31 +0300 From: Dmitry Gutov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:33.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/33.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Monnier , Thierry Volpiatto Subject: Re: bug#19603: 24.4.51; Improve emacs startup message. References: <87bnm0zhrl.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19603 Cc: 19603@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 01/15/2015 06:12 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Maybe the best option is to emit some > message at startup in the following case: > - there are packages installed. > - the .emacs file is non-empty. > - there is no call to package-initialize in the .emacs file. But deferring packages initialization till after the init file has been loaded is a valid strategy. Maybe instead `require' should be advised during init file loading to do something smart if the feature isn't found, but corresponds to a file in .emacs.d/elpa/**/. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 15 17:48:55 2015 Received: (at 19603) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2015 22:48:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58186 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBtDj-00068p-3y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:48:55 -0500 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:55975) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YBtDh-00068i-TO for 19603@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:48:54 -0500 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id t0FMmqQ3015786; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:48:52 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 710FBA32; Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:48:52 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Dmitry Gutov Subject: Re: bug#19603: 24.4.51; Improve emacs startup message. Message-ID: References: <87bnm0zhrl.fsf@gmail.com> <54B82E2F.7000105@yandex.ru> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:48:52 -0500 In-Reply-To: <54B82E2F.7000105@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Fri, 16 Jan 2015 00:16:31 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5187=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5187> : inlines <1782> : streams <1374002> : uri <1842531> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19603 Cc: 19603@debbugs.gnu.org, Thierry Volpiatto X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) >> Maybe the best option is to emit some >> message at startup in the following case: >> - there are packages installed. >> - the .emacs file is non-empty. >> - there is no call to package-initialize in the .emacs file. > But deferring packages initialization till after the init file has been > loaded is a valid strategy. It interacts poorly with hand customizations in ~/.emacs which typically assume/need the packages to be initialized. Note that the equivalent initialization (i.e. loading the autoloads) is done (long) before loading the .emacs file for all the built-in packages. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 17 09:25:46 2018 Received: (at 19603) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Feb 2018 14:25:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1en3Qw-000129-6z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:25:46 -0500 Received: from mail-io0-f169.google.com ([209.85.223.169]:34776) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1en3Qs-00011q-Pj; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:25:43 -0500 Received: by mail-io0-f169.google.com with SMTP id e7so7036238ioj.1; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 06:25:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=FbmwFYIZcwC0peTz8dHhrE6UAiwGxo07abVibZCvwLY=; b=g4pBMretuN7CjRSyM+fMXSUlpnO/AQhJryy38b7C4zn4JDDKpUG2cHkir/ZZy19tBw Xv4WQ71uaYTN8BZMLqxs0cQ6KwnODKVK1BkAcDBFg+dXOZY2bPO1SpqGuo1aNOs2T9A7 c9v7GwEMnwmpXDsOPEIKDwvusx39Gf6ZA+4phpUkwpiIZzcIyMnPOzylJIkj3NSFSMJ8 oAYe1AK2AjjP3B5J6TDfN5hFN49IK4RAgVR3wUZ4VWIhVYIz86xFwrcgQHeMd/UZThrj IMHshg976joQvbiHf7B8R856aS/PoAdKgxRp3PGp99YTB8G1p4GFdQ67FRq6XRSHq0rU ca1A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=FbmwFYIZcwC0peTz8dHhrE6UAiwGxo07abVibZCvwLY=; b=nQ5X2btROmd1GG3VY0gvzjtRIJGARt3HAuB7luja6+YVxPcOIrpXM5QUjQ/6pfCoE4 u6RsDE3fNprnC+zF+gjqhVQ7z+XEVkzMwPrh/LmBhGYeCRfMIaq2XtFuXVegU6sPKaTE Ny7zYtU4z/Ecmz4F2CpwejcpFDXFlxDHoK48fPdo9birjvoHlf5encopAI6fzN6B7v5j aweIW4NQx2/xn8lnBPayrDv07dJ30YKIW/M7pbepxz1k+4wT8p0/aOwwOPjMzVapWqpV ln7UHLd2uPNDsiCs9f2N2WRUvnwitt0Y/AvxAv6pXlKQVglFis5mjEoOoSO4TTIQk96J tvYw== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPDsgUCB+49ReQyxi65f4PmqB7HclLhsqSEhLkXF47lIGABbNZfs Dz+j/YdJAj3bGbKuEEO0R3Ebew== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226S68mRMcglwYUiMtsStCyvaPlzN3/M+BaamuvhicFwQk5nT9YWRUwhkR/11ePMRkxI0JUIfw== X-Received: by 10.107.13.15 with SMTP id 15mr12364110ion.35.1518877536973; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 06:25:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from zebian (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id f5sm5917211iof.13.2018.02.17.06.25.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sat, 17 Feb 2018 06:25:36 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky To: Thierry Volpiatto Subject: Re: bug#19603: 24.4.51; Improve emacs startup message. References: <87bnm0zhrl.fsf@gmail.com> <87a91khx1c.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:25:34 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87a91khx1c.fsf@gmail.com> (Thierry Volpiatto's message of "Thu, 15 Jan 2015 16:40:47 +0100") Message-ID: <877erb7kwx.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19603 Cc: 19603@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) close 19603 quit Thierry Volpiatto writes: > Stefan Monnier writes: > >>> Now emacs packages are widely used, >>> it would be great to improve the startup message of emacs with a link >>> about how to quickly setup package.el to be usable. >>> I have regularly people complaining "It is not working" because >>> they install packages through package.el and they don't add in their >>> init file `package-initialize', >> >> Right, we do call package-initialize automatically for them, but we do >> it "too late" in many cases. Maybe the best option is to emit some >> message at startup in the following case: >> - there are packages installed. >> - the .emacs file is non-empty. >> - there is no call to package-initialize in the .emacs file. > > Yeah, anything will be good as long as they are warned. The package-initialize problem is now solved in master in a different way (such that nothing extra needs to be added for the typical case). [1: 24acb31c04]: 2018-02-17 13:36:16 +0200 Add early init file, stop package-initialize insertion https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=24acb31c04b4048b85311d794e600ecd7ce60d3b From unknown Mon Aug 18 15:38:26 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator