From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:40:45 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#1958 <1958@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#1958 <1958@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Reply-To: bug#1958 <1958@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2025 13:40:45 +0000 retitle 1958 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode=20 reassign 1958 emacs,org-mode submitter 1958 "Andreas Amann" severity 1958 normal tag 1958 wontfix thanks From aamann@tyndall.ie Mon Jan 19 09:10:37 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 19 Jan 2009 17:10:37 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,IMPRONONCABLE_2 autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0JHATbg025533 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:10:30 -0800 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:37664 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LOxcT-00043w-ER for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:09:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LOxdo-0007m1-OO for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:10:27 -0500 Received: from nmrc.ucc.ie ([143.239.64.1]:47466 helo=bastion2.tyndall.ie) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LOxdn-0007j6-Od for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:10:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bastion2.tyndall.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C272B21E7; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:10:01 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.tyndall.ie Received: from bastion2.tyndall.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bastion2.tyndall.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1+lK8R8Q15mo; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:09:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from unixmail.tyndall.ie (unknown [10.1.64.22]) by bastion2.tyndall.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46A51B21E2; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:09:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by unixmail.tyndall.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437C96C206; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:09:54 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tyndall.ie Received: from unixmail.tyndall.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (unixmail.tyndall.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t7su87iRDHMH; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:09:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (lnx0015f2465ec6.tyndall.ie [10.1.65.107]) by unixmail.tyndall.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADEA56C1BD; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:09:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (lnx0015f2465ec6 [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n0JH9hpB012456; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:09:43 GMT Received: (from aamann@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id n0JH9aPe012455; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:09:36 GMT Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:09:36 GMT Message-Id: <200901191709.n0JH9aPe012455@localhost.localdomain> From: "Andreas Amann" To: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org CC: andreas.amann@web.de, carsten@orgmode.org Subject: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) start with "emacs -Q test.org" type "* bla" and then shift-left expected behaviour: since shift-select-mode is set to t by default (see src/callint.c), I would expect that shift-movements select a region, and that major modes should not override this behaviour, without being asked of doing so. actual behaviour: upon shift-left the binding org-shiftleft is called which marks the current item as "DONE". This is very confusing for people accostumed to shift-selection, which works very well in all other emacs modes I know. Possible solution: in lisp/org/org.el only include the bindings '([(shift up)] org-shiftup) '([(shift down)] org-shiftdown) '([(shift left)] org-shiftleft) '([(shift right)] org-shiftright) if the variable shift-select-mode is nil. In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2009-01-14 on lnx0015f2465ec6 Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.10300000 configured using `configure '--prefix=/home/aamann/local/emacs-cvs' 'LDFLAGS=-L/home/aamann/local/lib64' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/home/aamann/local/include'' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: en_IE.utf8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=none locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default-enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Org Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t global-auto-composition-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: * S-SPC b l a Recent messages: For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. test.org has auto save data; consider M-x recover-this-file OVERVIEW From lekktu@gmail.com Mon Jan 19 13:39:54 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 19 Jan 2009 21:39:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. 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X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0K3Hkop016005 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:17:47 -0800 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D474D57E221; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:18:08 -0500 (EST) From: Chong Yidong To: Carsten Dominik Cc: "Andreas Amann" , 1958@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:18:08 -0500 Message-ID: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Carsten, Here's a bug report/feature request for org mode. Adding shift-selection should be as simple as changing (interactive "P") to (interactive "^P") in the relevant functions. I don't know if this might break XEmacs, though. "Andreas Amann" wrote: > since shift-select-mode is set to t by default (see src/callint.c), I > would expect that shift-movements select a region, and that major > modes should not override this behaviour, without being asked of doing > so. > actual behaviour: upon shift-left the binding org-shiftleft is called > which marks the current item as "DONE". This is very confusing for > people accostumed to shift-selection, which works very well in all > other emacs modes I know. From carsten.dominik@gmail.com Mon Jan 19 21:22:34 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 05:22:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. 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(dc5146846e.adsl.wanadoo.nl [81.70.132.110]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm1190803eyf.57.2009.01.19.21.22.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:22:29 -0800 (PST) Sender: Carsten Dominik Cc: Carsten Dominik , "Andreas Amann" , 1958@debbugs.gnu.org Message-Id: <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> From: Carsten Dominik To: Chong Yidong In-Reply-To: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:22:28 +0100 References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Hi Chong, thank you for bringing this to my attention. However, it not clear to me how modifying the interactive form would solve the issue that in Org, S-curser keys are used for different fuctionality? - Carsten On Jan 20, 2009, at 4:18 AM, Chong Yidong wrote: > Hi Carsten, > > Here's a bug report/feature request for org mode. Adding > shift-selection should be as simple as changing (interactive "P") to > (interactive "^P") in the relevant functions. I don't know if this > might break XEmacs, though. > > > "Andreas Amann" wrote: > >> since shift-select-mode is set to t by default (see src/callint.c), I >> would expect that shift-movements select a region, and that major >> modes should not override this behaviour, without being asked of >> doing >> so. > >> actual behaviour: upon shift-left the binding org-shiftleft is called >> which marks the current item as "DONE". This is very confusing for >> people accostumed to shift-selection, which works very well in all >> other emacs modes I know. > From amann@itp.physik.tu-berlin.de Tue Jan 20 02:13:09 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 10:13:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,IMPRONONCABLE_2, MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8 autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail.tu-berlin.de (mail.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.7.33]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KAD5sT023103 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 02:13:06 -0800 Received: from milli.physik.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.114.140]) by mail.tu-berlin.de with esmtp (exim 4.69 mailfrontend-c) id 1LPDbP-0006j5-VI; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:13:00 +0100 Received: by milli.physik.tu-berlin.de (Postfix, from userid 3390) id 6D602207; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:12:25 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:12:25 +0100 From: Andreas Amann To: Carsten Dominik Cc: Andreas Amann , emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, andreas.amann@web.de, Carsten Dominik , Emacs-orgmode mailing list , 1958@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Message-ID: <20090120101225.GA19356@milli.physik.TU-Berlin.DE> References: <200901191709.n0JH9aPe012455@localhost.localdomain> <28B24655-C322-482B-8615-820CA6A99D09@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <28B24655-C322-482B-8615-820CA6A99D09@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) X-tubIT-Score: 0.0 () I just tested this patch, and can confirm that it works and solves my problem. Thanks! Btw: I never associated shift-select with windows (which I have no experience with). Wasn't shift-select available with Motif since the mid 90's? Andreas On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 09:54:31PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote: > > I am aware of this conflict, but I had no idea that this mode is on by > default? > What ever happened with Emacs that we have become this much > Windows-biased???? > > Anyway, if the Emacs Gods decide that this has to change, the way to do it > would be this: > > > - Carsten > > > > --- org.el.orig 2009-01-19 21:52:10.000000000 +0100 > +++ org.el 2009-01-19 21:52:42.000000000 +0100 > @@ -246,7 +246,7 @@ > :group 'org-startup > :type 'boolean) > > -(defcustom org-replace-disputed-keys nil > +(defcustom org-replace-disputed-keys shift-select-mode > "Non-nil means use alternative key bindings for some keys. > Org-mode uses S- keys for changing timestamps and priorities. > These keys are also used by other packages like `CUA-mode' or > `windmove.el'. > > > > > On Jan 19, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Andreas Amann wrote: > >> start with "emacs -Q test.org" >> >> type "* bla" >> and then shift-left >> >> expected behaviour: since shift-select-mode is set to t by default >> (see src/callint.c), I would expect that shift-movements select >> a region, and that major modes should not override this behaviour, >> without being asked of doing so. >> >> actual behaviour: upon shift-left the binding org-shiftleft is called >> which marks the current item as "DONE". This is very confusing for >> people accostumed to shift-selection, which works very well in all >> other emacs modes I know. >> >> Possible solution: in lisp/org/org.el >> only include the bindings >> >> '([(shift up)] org-shiftup) >> '([(shift down)] org-shiftdown) >> '([(shift left)] org-shiftleft) >> '([(shift right)] org-shiftright) >> >> if the variable shift-select-mode is nil. >> >> >> >> >> In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll >> bars) >> of 2009-01-14 on lnx0015f2465ec6 >> Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.10300000 >> configured using `configure '--prefix=/home/aamann/local/emacs-cvs' >> 'LDFLAGS=-L/home/aamann/local/lib64' >> 'CPPFLAGS=-I/home/aamann/local/include'' >> >> Important settings: >> value of $LC_ALL: nil >> value of $LC_COLLATE: nil >> value of $LC_CTYPE: nil >> value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil >> value of $LC_MONETARY: nil >> value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil >> value of $LC_TIME: nil >> value of $LANG: en_IE.utf8 >> value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=none >> locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix >> default-enable-multibyte-characters: t >> >> Major mode: Org >> >> Minor modes in effect: >> tooltip-mode: t >> tool-bar-mode: t >> mouse-wheel-mode: t >> menu-bar-mode: t >> file-name-shadow-mode: t >> global-font-lock-mode: t >> font-lock-mode: t >> blink-cursor-mode: t >> global-auto-composition-mode: t >> auto-composition-mode: t >> auto-encryption-mode: t >> auto-compression-mode: t >> line-number-mode: t >> transient-mark-mode: t >> >> Recent input: >> * S-SPC b l a >> >> >> >> Recent messages: >> For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. >> test.org has auto save data; consider M-x recover-this-file >> OVERVIEW From cyd@stupidchicken.com Tue Jan 20 05:40:26 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 13:40:26 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KDeNg8010940 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 05:40:24 -0800 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1E29657E1D4; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:40:46 -0500 (EST) From: Chong Yidong To: Carsten Dominik Cc: "Andreas Amann" , 1958@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:40:46 -0500 In-Reply-To: <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> (Carsten Dominik's message of "Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:22:28 +0100") Message-ID: <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Carsten Dominik writes: > thank you for bringing this to my attention. However, it not > clear to me how modifying the interactive form would solve the > issue that in Org, S-curser keys are used for different fuctionality? Ah OK. I didn't investigate carefully enough. I see now that Org binds S-arrow keys to commands that don't have anything to do with cursor motion. I don't think consistency demands that S-arrow perform text selection in other major modes. So, unless you wish to change it, we can leave this one alone. From lennart.borgman@gmail.com Tue Jan 20 06:12:47 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 14:12:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.152]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KECiOC018898 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:12:45 -0800 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l27so1444372fgb.43 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:12:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=s8kRH8MlTxm/wAdo0xEl5qTMRNhSJQuqdkfztPGJfrg=; b=aUPKuDPAWu4KQci0Dp50jJ4A0VrJug/eO68IbEYDgrOb9+d+48wKLrKO8fW3CNtWE7 FW1uESEuERMpREqABX9H3ANfit4eZBqim7FVNPRTH9pUkxAWk4tC7jA91drqxsOOYt6g zcT6aEw1Kuyn7baYctDGagsnh2DiDNAUXfCic= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=eBxkxUkS4TEXG4iuCEXLAi+FQy+mRfIdwuuMpBuPajKYxlPvJ6h1dCqF+thxQ9jqrr SkUfsHdUL5lasDxOk4sFF48UXwO4lCu00J8G+XAzQi2r86MOAA7GvsSxUVIF8kyPxU67 kuzQUiOigymHW4hfH7i0IdMCB5XJZbgkrislI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.95.20 with SMTP id s20mr898844fgb.39.1232460763484; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:12:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:12:43 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode From: Lennart Borgman To: Chong Yidong , 1958@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: Carsten Dominik , Andreas Amann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Chong Yidong wrote: > Carsten Dominik writes: > >> thank you for bringing this to my attention. However, it not >> clear to me how modifying the interactive form would solve the >> issue that in Org, S-curser keys are used for different fuctionality? > > Ah OK. I didn't investigate carefully enough. I see now that Org binds > S-arrow keys to commands that don't have anything to do with cursor > motion. > > I don't think consistency demands that S-arrow perform text selection in > other major modes. So, unless you wish to change it, we can leave this > one alone. Is not this at the same level as any other key binding that should have a global impact? As I understand it there has been a long fight to get key bindings consistent. Wouldn't it be unfortunate to step off that road now? From cyd@stupidchicken.com Tue Jan 20 06:23:33 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 14:23:33 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KENUL7021323 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:23:31 -0800 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C427057E21E; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:23:53 -0500 (EST) From: Chong Yidong To: Carsten Dominik Cc: 1958@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:23:53 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Carsten Dominik's message of "Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:55:22 +0100") Message-ID: <877i4qvyx2.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Carsten Dominik writes: > Thanks, then I will leave it the way it is. In fact, people who want > to use shift-selection in Org-mode can do so by setting a single > variable. For reference, which variable is that? From carsten.dominik@gmail.com Tue Jan 20 06:44:18 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 14:44:18 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KEiENU026237 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:44:16 -0800 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 17so303516ugm.14 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:44:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=JQHw5rgH8RJAton0qWOl+1ko1r0MdxVXLSXRq//bJ1E=; b=QOqNd6t9Eq/M9qH5Njr4RpdZL82gzTpY3GYBUmvk6q1uYN8BldRMdWmEFUlqONQiy1 Hh2QWhpcPQSUua5ncbRuQ7uFW8Y/B78ADrqZiDbtV6X52DbwfGs1LVWePXEqg7xWOcAj gFr0sVmt/dzpZ/hrBqT8PbZNqkr770fvw0zY0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=JP/SFcQRyf0+vfJZBnEWgfrfMkGVmnuaFgz5hQorX7FO955AA+miK0wsUQicUK//lc 5K8i06gMXLyHIGJ51BdU16/5LBbCSn3AVK5sfbg0f5dLHxcU2G00o9Gqj8pLHaV74iTE 1Z/udwpaCWyfo4KiDVdq+P2Sn/mgnFYOX30Sk= Received: by 10.67.116.4 with SMTP id t4mr2215463ugm.48.1232462654135; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:44:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nb-dominik2.science.uva.nl (nb-dominik2.science.uva.nl [146.50.22.167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 32sm12999932ugf.37.2009.01.20.06.44.12 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:44:13 -0800 (PST) Sender: Carsten Dominik Cc: Carsten Dominik , 1958@debbugs.gnu.org Message-Id: <2B0C5722-B3BB-49A4-BD29-58E06C3EE086@uva.nl> From: Carsten Dominik To: Chong Yidong In-Reply-To: <877i4qvyx2.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:44:09 +0100 References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <877i4qvyx2.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) On Jan 20, 2009, at 3:23 PM, Chong Yidong wrote: > Carsten Dominik writes: > >> Thanks, then I will leave it the way it is. In fact, people who want >> to use shift-selection in Org-mode can do so by setting a single >> variable. > > For reference, which variable is that? org-replace-disputed-keys It has this rather generic name because not only shift-selection, but also windmove.el, and I believe more packages compete for these keys. - Carsten From cyd@stupidchicken.com Tue Jan 20 06:50:59 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 14:50:59 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KEouJ0028629 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:50:57 -0800 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 99D2B57E21E; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:51:19 -0500 (EST) From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: tag 1958 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:51:19 -0500 Message-ID: <87ab9mdo9k.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii tags 1958 wontfix thanks From lennart.borgman@gmail.com Tue Jan 20 07:41:37 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 15:41:37 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.159]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KFfXGl009197 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:41:35 -0800 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l27so1464897fgb.43 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:41:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=fjzJ8lTex+hYaMpHeaRCWJe6e44We9Aw3b1uRYMPOJE=; b=RgvwPMWFsvY7TWU+dNTtGUwOvzG6mp286sxkYLkz7HdEiCtRgYMeb5Z3zymdEt603k nXhL/Kyu3SIo2P4uPWQ810vYAydcvGcUjC+JX+OGXyU/BQew/RW0fhRg5zF3tLHIz6cm v+fDr1ZXylHJq4YJwWNLSZxCFKwgdtjEaD90s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hJmly0Nn6ZBBGDchoiILJF9HU0dMvMGx5tpGf4kt/qKpQQ9jHu7kAGJN9S9jpHU3pj SLtRoI7wFB/AHpis7xeQiqarnF1tG7G2GIPeO+5r+m5Qp2VSdZ3U6mWP/kwolo5TKIvs TkZffVF4ExCQdHz3FmvMLrspJX8ekKgfVAxxY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.68.2 with SMTP id q2mr424465fga.68.1232466093247; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:41:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:41:33 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode From: Lennart Borgman To: Chong Yidong , 1958@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Chong Yidong wrote: > Carsten Dominik writes: > >> thank you for bringing this to my attention. However, it not >> clear to me how modifying the interactive form would solve the >> issue that in Org, S-curser keys are used for different fuctionality? > > Ah OK. I didn't investigate carefully enough. I see now that Org binds > S-arrow keys to commands that don't have anything to do with cursor > motion. > > I don't think consistency demands that S-arrow perform text selection in > other major modes. So, unless you wish to change it, we can leave this > one alone. Once again then: I really prefer consistency. What do you mean with "other major modes"? I really thought that S-arrow should perform selection in all major modes since it is a very basic editing command. From cyd@stupidchicken.com Tue Jan 20 08:13:58 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 16:13:59 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=GMAIL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KGDtn3017166 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:13:56 -0800 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BA9C057E21E; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:14:18 -0500 (EST) From: Chong Yidong To: Lennart Borgman Cc: 1958@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:14:18 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Lennart Borgman's message of "Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:41:33 +0100") Message-ID: <87fxjehs4l.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lennart Borgman writes: >> I don't think consistency demands that S-arrow perform text selection in >> other major modes. So, unless you wish to change it, we can leave this >> one alone. > > Once again then: I really prefer consistency. What do you mean with > "other major modes"? I really thought that S-arrow should perform > selection in all major modes since it is a very basic editing command. All things being equal, it's nice to have consistency, but the needs of individual major modes can outweigh this. To give another example, eshell rebinds the up and down arrows to move around in the shell command history, decoupling the usual equivalence of C-p/up and C-n/down. I don't use Org mode myself, but since Carsten, the package maintainer, appears to have given some thought into this, there is no harm deferring to him. From bastienguerry@googlemail.com Tue Jan 20 08:20:42 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 16:20:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,GMAIL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.25]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KGKcVB019562 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:20:40 -0800 Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 4so380740eyf.13 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:20:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; bh=XOQeVxKHenxq8UU88p+3/EOGzawxM4W9ySrQdlXzwSI=; b=omfsUmaWQg69TS0OVITWiRMa2vOUpES513nWfRzxJAFqSwJWGtktzeCJQ+rgI1HYvG YXn+jna7/Egz0jFNZvjecEYTdE/9jVVqv1K9zw7d6I66WL+S7pvIdYGBJz419sEjqWxf EzJiPymxAgnQLiTcEFoZOkyOeY+PHlYirlH5c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type; b=SNYHYDRY547rvpU4OLXPLdnOBTzmQ5FbHLxl0WmBTd5yWv0s4wIETYb8Zki3UNE1Vn FKDsv9/5adCaPRy2DKK2SNRgDnDPfGfNb4yJyKL/tobqiDLAUMu05vPIFBUA4wUlbq83 nOlTVTM4vGOeGw6JR8MWzErX/dT/wgGJhauJc= Received: by 10.210.78.7 with SMTP id a7mr8823397ebb.156.1232468438252; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from bzg ([82.98.22.134]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x6sm7230426gvf.12.2009.01.20.08.20.36 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by bzg (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6AC241621E8; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:20:37 +0100 (CET) From: Bastien To: Lennart Borgman Cc: 1958@debbugs.gnu.org, Chong Yidong , Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode In-Reply-To: (Lennart Borgman's message of "Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:41:33 +0100") References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:20:37 +0100 Message-ID: <87tz7ux82y.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lennart Borgman writes: > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Chong Yidong wrote: >> >> I don't think consistency demands that S-arrow perform text selection in >> other major modes. So, unless you wish to change it, we can leave this >> one alone. > > Once again then: I really prefer consistency. What do you mean with > "other major modes"? I really thought that S-arrow should perform > selection in all major modes since it is a very basic editing command. I'm all for consistency as well, but I don't think it implies that S- should have exactly the same behavior in any major-mode, or in any editing context. Org-mode distinguishes between several contexts: tables, lists, properties, headline, etc. I think it's reasonable to expect S- keys to behave like in any other modes outside of these specific contexts. For now this is not the case, it returns an error like this: "org-shiftcursor-error: This command is active in special context like tables, headlines or timestamps" IMHO, getting rid of this error makes Org-mode consistent enough with other modes. -- Bastien From lennart.borgman@gmail.com Tue Jan 20 10:00:38 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 18:00:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,GMAIL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.157]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KI0XBu012070 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:00:35 -0800 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l27so1493489fgb.43 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:00:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ctw4wn910BtCO1Z2Rz1LLbCm+FrojUvoRnTASEj5tJk=; b=CbAFkFwmO1ykmR4OWOnSq+hPDQ6mA9gpNKLXezr8ofSh8wFdbA5/dmpJ3dknIc9ZpR qhWQNxNnCTp1LHytqOQxwwiPToaoVnabrAsNgsq8s4l+rm9/adG8qUcBWqlB6+mrvZUK tPnzlLUOejyKZNKlfooxN9eNLcvsMqWN8SWbw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=WKghube6sAoyjeP4XfoOcx+ZRSIzym9MIU7t/8ANuY1rrZTUymDbargZzBbFJA52Ay tHZ9dEzzD2pMkCPr4S0qrNOtBA+FI8kLWygMERQplWCjL8X07Uo1D3cGdFPqSeO/j30L 1gFdcVN1rTx6KKZgKOmQjFcjNJfKIn8fkdeAo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.95.20 with SMTP id s20mr1004065fgb.39.1232474433159; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:00:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87tz7ux82y.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87tz7ux82y.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:00:33 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode From: Lennart Borgman To: Bastien Cc: 1958@debbugs.gnu.org, Chong Yidong , Carsten Dominik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Bastien wrote: > Lennart Borgman writes: > >> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Chong Yidong wrote: >>> >>> I don't think consistency demands that S-arrow perform text selection in >>> other major modes. So, unless you wish to change it, we can leave this >>> one alone. >> >> Once again then: I really prefer consistency. What do you mean with >> "other major modes"? I really thought that S-arrow should perform >> selection in all major modes since it is a very basic editing command. > > I'm all for consistency as well, but I don't think it implies that > S- should have exactly the same behavior in any major-mode, > or in any editing context. > > Org-mode distinguishes between several contexts: tables, lists, > properties, headline, etc. > > I think it's reasonable to expect S- keys to behave like in > any other modes outside of these specific contexts. For now this is > not the case, it returns an error like this: > > "org-shiftcursor-error: This command is active in special context like > tables, headlines or timestamps" > > IMHO, getting rid of this error makes Org-mode consistent enough with > other modes. Is not that counter-intuitive? For me it would be fine to use S- for something else than selecting in a context where selecting is not possible at all. But I wonder if there are any such contexts in Emacs ...? From bastienguerry@googlemail.com Tue Jan 20 10:57:13 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 18:57:13 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=GMAIL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail-ew0-f10.google.com (mail-ew0-f10.google.com [209.85.219.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KIv8AI025850 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:57:10 -0800 Received: by ewy3 with SMTP id 3so2034098ewy.1 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:57:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; bh=X5yroaoAWmvm1l6lmDrlQygrbGZtNYS5pkSeWqAVjQY=; b=UdBbPieJpif/kN4aeYFPliHR5qTkGBpmbXiQDjIwb24eo9QouKN2G0PrJVBcXDnxlv lBLD9L2nLd85ISccR9oSEn2CJZeCm/rfG7baKU8hm1YqjPcDmJKiKQ6ltYqNRpLWdQP5 5KJidlsikjORp6rXSjjz32iyt/MYxGsChzwF8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type; b=QBdHGeDoyVdoeilMFXmVyXNVFHjGCuETPSN501n7oK7Z0691Kl17ZpPt4/CkMi7VMY MzfK/vzBhYmgOOjRtU5kuU/Z3CrS39PvEaCn0Rnp9TqFev0oFpKgiunbhkmNP+rQMZmn 1kX+wXjx7kL+hNp5ribLGRpAkm3paFGOyvwIo= Received: by 10.210.69.6 with SMTP id r6mr1022701eba.95.1232477823370; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:57:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from bzg ([82.98.22.134]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q9sm3091027gve.3.2009.01.20.10.57.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by bzg (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3A7BF1621E8; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:57:01 +0100 (CET) From: Bastien To: Lennart Borgman Cc: 1958@debbugs.gnu.org, Chong Yidong , Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode In-Reply-To: (Lennart Borgman's message of "Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:00:33 +0100") References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87tz7ux82y.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:57:01 +0100 Message-ID: <87mydl4xhe.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lennart Borgman writes: > Is not that counter-intuitive? For me it would be fine to use > S- for something else than selecting in a context where > selecting is not possible at all. But I wonder if there are any such > contexts in Emacs ...? Calendar? -- Bastien From carsten.dominik@gmail.com Tue Jan 20 11:21:19 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 19:21:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,GMAIL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail-ew0-f10.google.com (mail-ew0-f10.google.com [209.85.219.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KJLEv6032457 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:21:16 -0800 Received: by ewy3 with SMTP id 3so2051467ewy.1 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:21:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=Er+s4apZhPyljwhGkpoCcnL0iXoHAsfE+HrBMTJeFaw=; b=qVVaNUDvms1Jo73WD3X6HNTHwDcifXiD0U0kvGoDaZTY/z/DQWKMSVWy0e6YWXEAlz YQrlzAbJ3G99Tdg8FmU0n9DI2MvDxvgo2UBcHu3h00HIHnWtbAjppRBH+Uzi/MyfXYoZ 07Ze1HbpDEkKTcrQIuHWoIP4USnbJMoI07GlY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=gCUhpI2oaxg/3JgmLv+X0ljgWucAw+y9ZyJ1NGzNBej6iQhKTIRNJwWUTUbH1BPcCg GDZQY4wpTOT5UN0/pB7yS7jYaWUEE2MAnJVnhEtQvFAGbY/xG7kWQiDpZc2WJj1dDHDf MoS3xiAU0cu4OqitFN8UM2aqQpVF1hgCRqmCU= Received: by 10.210.65.17 with SMTP id n17mr1052719eba.106.1232479268917; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:21:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.10? (dc5146846e.adsl.wanadoo.nl [81.70.132.110]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 31sm14631712nfu.22.2009.01.20.11.21.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:21:07 -0800 (PST) Sender: Carsten Dominik Cc: Bastien , 1958@debbugs.gnu.org, Chong Yidong , Carsten Dominik Message-Id: <58010E7D-AF80-4562-952D-41B21FDF4AE7@uva.nl> From: Carsten Dominik To: Lennart Borgman In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:21:04 +0100 References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87tz7ux82y.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) On Jan 20, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Bastien > wrote: >> Lennart Borgman writes: >> >>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Chong Yidong >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I don't think consistency demands that S-arrow perform text >>>> selection in >>>> other major modes. So, unless you wish to change it, we can >>>> leave this >>>> one alone. >>> >>> Once again then: I really prefer consistency. What do you mean with >>> "other major modes"? I really thought that S-arrow should perform >>> selection in all major modes since it is a very basic editing >>> command. >> >> I'm all for consistency as well, but I don't think it implies that >> S- should have exactly the same behavior in any major-mode, >> or in any editing context. >> >> Org-mode distinguishes between several contexts: tables, lists, >> properties, headline, etc. >> >> I think it's reasonable to expect S- keys to behave like in >> any other modes outside of these specific contexts. For now this is >> not the case, it returns an error like this: >> >> "org-shiftcursor-error: This command is active in special context >> like >> tables, headlines or timestamps" >> >> IMHO, getting rid of this error makes Org-mode consistent enough with >> other modes. > > Is not that counter-intuitive? For me it would be fine to use > S- for something else than selecting in a context where > selecting is not possible at all. But I wonder if there are any such > contexts in Emacs ...? I think I have to agree here with Lennart. If a user expects shifted cursor motion to do selection, a variable reaction of Emacs depending on context will be confusing. For me this issue is that s-cursor commands do very valuable and intuitive stuff in Org, and these commands are heavily advertised in the manual and likely used by a large number of active users, who would also be confused if we suddenly changed this behavior. In addition to that, Emacs's has alternative methods for creating a selection that are far superior in my mind. Setting the mark and then moving the cursor by any means, in particular also search ans jumping to the beginning/end of the buffer - I miss this so much in any program outside Emacs. I therefore think it is the right decision to have a variable for setting this and my personal preference would be to let me have my current default setting in Org-mode which allows me to use these valuable keys. After all, it is Emacs 23 that changes its default for these keys from what we were used to, not Org. - Carsten From rgm@gnu.org Tue Jan 20 12:56:49 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 20:56:49 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.3 required=4.0 tests=MISSING_SUBJECT,NOSUBJECT, VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KKuk6u023700 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:56:47 -0800 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LPNcx-0008Na-Lm; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:55:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18806.14899.594100.974080@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:55:15 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: control reassign 1883 emacs,org-mode reassign 1905 emacs,emacs-www reassign 1925 emacs,org-mode merge 1929 1930 reassign 1941 emacs,org-mode reassign 1944 emacs,org-mode severity 1947 minor reassign 1953 emacs,cc-mode reassign 1958 emacs,org-mode close 1969 reassign 1971 spam From lennart.borgman@gmail.com Tue Jan 20 13:56:35 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 21:56:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,GMAIL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.158]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KLuVeM006655 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:56:32 -0800 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l27so1544726fgb.43 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:56:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=uDRcbLrCtZboBviAKtx2k6B3aifmKHps8EDAt9XMjKI=; b=iWVGzhK6Vb5ABHF09gjvDP0BOzCq+bgw0kM13ySgY0YuZeFHWNbZYpowYWwWETUw9N eCgqTA9SEIYZy7ZYYgb452x3Eb36hKILt2kVjerPCQNu6YCXHRio5PMnrSfumIcKwTMw k9kN8K9HDHX4n7SUWQI++oODEI9w3lgOY9bs8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Jsuh/JSMcesM2+xW9u8GSPZvzEhg6ame0a4f4DNVOuNvwYgcDYGgwT917OdhZl1NLx AotsO6TY2TFn2ncJ6Rn1c0DWWtpZrRo/1qwCFbIoQDn1uzQvxKP9S+BXppDZM4xGEc+3 xgntCd+nu48nWL2uejYbwMVRX06kE21Ostm+o= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.70.3 with SMTP id s3mr1940889fga.25.1232488590770; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:56:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <58010E7D-AF80-4562-952D-41B21FDF4AE7@uva.nl> References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87tz7ux82y.fsf@gnu.org> <58010E7D-AF80-4562-952D-41B21FDF4AE7@uva.nl> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:56:30 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode From: Lennart Borgman To: Carsten Dominik Cc: Bastien , 1958@debbugs.gnu.org, Chong Yidong Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote: > > On Jan 20, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > >> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Bastien >> wrote: >>> >>> Lennart Borgman writes: >>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Chong Yidong >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I don't think consistency demands that S-arrow perform text selection >>>>> in >>>>> other major modes. So, unless you wish to change it, we can leave this >>>>> one alone. >>>> >>>> Once again then: I really prefer consistency. What do you mean with >>>> "other major modes"? I really thought that S-arrow should perform >>>> selection in all major modes since it is a very basic editing command. >>> >>> I'm all for consistency as well, but I don't think it implies that >>> S- should have exactly the same behavior in any major-mode, >>> or in any editing context. >>> >>> Org-mode distinguishes between several contexts: tables, lists, >>> properties, headline, etc. >>> >>> I think it's reasonable to expect S- keys to behave like in >>> any other modes outside of these specific contexts. For now this is >>> not the case, it returns an error like this: >>> >>> "org-shiftcursor-error: This command is active in special context like >>> tables, headlines or timestamps" >>> >>> IMHO, getting rid of this error makes Org-mode consistent enough with >>> other modes. >> >> Is not that counter-intuitive? For me it would be fine to use >> S- for something else than selecting in a context where >> selecting is not possible at all. But I wonder if there are any such >> contexts in Emacs ...? > > I think I have to agree here with Lennart. If a user expects shifted > cursor motion to do selection, a variable reaction of Emacs depending > on context will be confusing. > > For me this issue is that s-cursor commands do very valuable and > intuitive stuff in Org, and these commands are heavily advertised > in the manual and likely used by a large number of active users, who > would also be confused if we suddenly changed this behavior. > > In addition to that, Emacs's has alternative methods for > creating a selection that are far superior in my mind. Setting > the mark and then moving the cursor by any means, in > particular also search ans jumping to the beginning/end > of the buffer - I miss this so much in any program outside Emacs. I am not sure that matters here (even though it is good). > I therefore think it is the right decision to have a variable for > setting this and my personal preference would be to let me have my > current default setting in Org-mode which allows me to use these > valuable keys. > > After all, it is Emacs 23 that changes its default for these keys > from what we were used to, not Org. This is an unfortunate situation that is difficult to resolve without doing any (short term) harm. I suggest adding a note about S- (or even better S-) in the manual: (info "(elisp) Key Binding Conventions") This could make it easier in the future to follow the S-* convention. Whatever the decision for org-mode will be now I think it would be good to try to follow the S-* convention in the future. From bastienguerry@googlemail.com Tue Jan 20 16:03:37 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Jan 2009 00:03:37 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail-ew0-f25.google.com (mail-ew0-f25.google.com [209.85.219.25]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0L03TS9005901 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:03:31 -0800 Received: by ewy6 with SMTP id 6so691338ewy.1 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:03:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; bh=UY4l8jPfUImclGMGWfIQD4lf2NgFl/DCzi2ncI5yRYE=; b=BFlDD3LP7kFEf1U2lTs9ICUvCRzpC1Af7fiB4YaJkDVfDv4gkXYEk1fhI/F7kr6PKr 7ljDXpe8wbRSXDFL8eEjLtcbdk6hd7hdIcYx3NDem8N6dyO0sl7fh0muueGItfywbFIk aR2e7FGlkX17u28X8JzGcPX1fi+z81kRfHkoM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type; b=IJ9kgRVMVbqOMvMXwlQoEg++/nGXsLzGmsEMjIcXf0AQfgigVQ4wqEwVvf8yHb8q38 iq3L0x9WxCOfQzwzrf35fRnlPWZdu7sDGYD0Yz/TH0nToHJWmo9W/y9ylsZQWfTvzP91 ivxOkAFRZ60d66tV+wDw8Pn2u94ailgKu0fIU= Received: by 10.210.109.10 with SMTP id h10mr9382721ebc.10.1232496204109; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from bzg ([82.98.22.134]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i6sm50428gve.10.2009.01.20.16.03.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:03:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by bzg (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BD20C1621E8; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:03:16 +0100 (CET) From: Bastien To: Carsten Dominik Cc: Lennart Borgman , 1958@debbugs.gnu.org, Chong Yidong Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode In-Reply-To: <58010E7D-AF80-4562-952D-41B21FDF4AE7@uva.nl> (Carsten Dominik's message of "Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:21:04 +0100") References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87tz7ux82y.fsf@gnu.org> <58010E7D-AF80-4562-952D-41B21FDF4AE7@uva.nl> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:03:16 +0100 Message-ID: <877i4pikzf.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Carsten Dominik writes: > I therefore think it is the right decision to have a variable for > setting this and my personal preference would be to let me have my > current default setting in Org-mode which allows me to use these > valuable keys. I agree with all this. But still: maybe S-cursor keys could perform selection outside of special contexts, instead of sending an error. In other words, S-cursor would have a special behavior in special contexts, but the normal (=Emacs) one in a normal context... What do you think? -- Bastien From geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Tue Jan 20 21:59:40 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Jan 2009 05:59:40 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0L5xVhh030639 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:59:33 -0800 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LPW7f-0000Lo-7U for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:59:31 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LPW7c-0000Lc-Ib for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:59:29 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=54943 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LPW7c-0000LZ-AF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:59:28 -0500 Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:57610 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LPW7b-00039o-TG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:59:28 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1LPW7Z-0002pY-JN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:59:25 +0000 Received: from smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk ([193.60.95.72]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:59:25 +0000 Received: from sdl.web by smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:59:25 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Leo Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:59:15 +0000 Organization: University of Cambridge Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87tz7ux82y.fsf@gnu.org> <58010E7D-AF80-4562-952D-41B21FDF4AE7@uva.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:U4XXQpDKEnHpGUq7PwrRJaezIW8= Sender: news X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) On 2009-01-20 19:21 +0000, Carsten Dominik wrote: > I therefore think it is the right decision to have a variable for > setting this and my personal preference would be to let me have my > current default setting in Org-mode which allows me to use these > valuable keys. Agree. S- for selection is only useful for new users. I do not use it at all. Trying to adopt a key binding from applications that do not have many key bindings to manage is asking for trouble. And this functionality can be so easily activated. Allowing a bit of micro-programming is elegant and consistent. Best, -- .: Leo :. [ sdl.web AT gmail.com ] .: I use Emacs :. From carsten.dominik@gmail.com Wed Jan 21 01:30:32 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Jan 2009 09:30:32 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. 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(dc5146846e.adsl.wanadoo.nl [81.70.132.110]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 7sm3750320eyg.52.2009.01.21.01.30.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:30:20 -0800 (PST) Sender: Carsten Dominik Cc: Carsten Dominik , Lennart Borgman , 1958@debbugs.gnu.org, Chong Yidong Message-Id: <35E07B17-DC55-46FF-B7DC-B43E0F95EB01@uva.nl> From: Carsten Dominik To: Bastien In-Reply-To: <877i4pikzf.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:30:18 +0100 References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87tz7ux82y.fsf@gnu.org> <58010E7D-AF80-4562-952D-41B21FDF4AE7@uva.nl> <877i4pikzf.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:03 AM, Bastien wrote: > Carsten Dominik writes: > >> I therefore think it is the right decision to have a variable for >> setting this and my personal preference would be to let me have my >> current default setting in Org-mode which allows me to use these >> valuable keys. > > I agree with all this. But still: maybe S-cursor keys could perform > selection outside of special contexts, instead of sending an error. > > In other words, S-cursor would have a special behavior in special > contexts, but the normal (=Emacs) one in a normal context... I think this would be too confusing, in fact. Just imagine starting outside a time stamp, and then moving with S-cursor into the time stamp. outlise the region would bet larger, but upon reaching the time stamp, the time stamp will change instead.... Or starting somewhere and enlarging the region across a headline.... - Carsten From andreas.amann@tyndall.ie Fri Jan 23 04:35:00 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 23 Jan 2009 12:35:00 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from bastion2.tyndall.ie (tyndall.ucc.ie [143.239.64.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0NCYugL010008 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 04:34:58 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bastion2.tyndall.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61876B20C7; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:34:50 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.tyndall.ie Received: from bastion2.tyndall.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bastion2.tyndall.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P9xyRKRYQ9eE; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:34:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from unixmail.tyndall.ie (unknown [10.1.64.22]) by bastion2.tyndall.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4D3B20E4; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:34:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by unixmail.tyndall.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485A57A2F7; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:34:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tyndall.ie Received: from unixmail.tyndall.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (unixmail.tyndall.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fUjNccuadGQv; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:34:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lnx0015f2465ec6.tyndall.ie (lnx0015f2465ec6.tyndall.ie [10.1.65.107]) by unixmail.tyndall.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7FDE7A2EE; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:34:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Andreas Amann To: 1958@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:34:40 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 Cc: Lennart Borgman , Chong Yidong , Carsten Dominik References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200901231234.41025.andreas.amann@tyndall.ie> May I just add one little aspect to this: Note that in org-mode the shift-arrow keys only work, when the cursor is on an item line (i.e. one starting with at least one "*")! Otherwise the shift-arrow keys simply give the error "Not in an item", and blocks a potentially useful binding without real benefit. Would it therefore be possible to only switch on the org-specific shift-arrow binding on item lines, where they are only useful anyhow? I.e. instead of printing the error message, one could fall back to whatever the standard binding outside org-mode is. This would be fairly intuitive from a user point of view in my opinion. The only complication might be to decide, what should happen, when shift-selecting from a non-item line into an item line. Andreas From carsten.dominik@gmail.com Fri Jan 23 07:32:49 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 23 Jan 2009 15:32:50 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail-ew0-f10.google.com (mail-ew0-f10.google.com [209.85.219.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0NFWjNj022896 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:32:47 -0800 Received: by ewy3 with SMTP id 3so4972451ewy.1 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:32:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=DiiBld1WU3Afhp1Whojfkt21+Rb1BMsk4VjZX7GXlf4=; b=dKU9y7QkmLstUM07OF380LfbJvJdcc+fy3JHInFTcsWygBMBQpOR+//hMhtXsbD7iq 7Oya/yqKBRhS/+Xj8Qg2pOAlS1juZ/djccMXd8KTv2HFYid/8H16NGpf7HtxXO3F5+S6 y/8qUzJ6z37+QnRUiEli8V4d1ME9QBWZx4Y5A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=U2X0bnhavVOWC25i04jys1UmiN6hOujbuomgJtJhpscRzrqaZSOVhVftX2Rfjq9C7+ E5dFsWZkMG5GeB8fQ9rOuCXq5xcoH3YqtKB1RcmU1iM0ztxcV34muQLzMW6/4VHCZH7W vyLRtiK8OpUT5tr7qJpLLKATAWfTP6VKbbClg= Received: by 10.67.100.10 with SMTP id c10mr128250ugm.2.1232724732605; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:32:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nb-dominik2.science.uva.nl (nb-dominik2.science.uva.nl [146.50.22.167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r38sm30638ugc.47.2009.01.23.07.32.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:32:11 -0800 (PST) Sender: Carsten Dominik Cc: 1958@debbugs.gnu.org, Lennart Borgman , Chong Yidong , Carsten Dominik Message-Id: <4D6E2F88-CF94-4DED-96C3-7555694F8F2C@uva.nl> From: Carsten Dominik To: Andreas Amann In-Reply-To: <200901231234.41025.andreas.amann@tyndall.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:32:08 +0100 References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <200901231234.41025.andreas.amann@tyndall.ie> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Hi Andreas, something like this could be done, but would that not be more confusing? - Carsten On Jan 23, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Andreas Amann wrote: > > May I just add one little aspect to this: > > Note that in org-mode the shift-arrow keys only work, when the > cursor is on an item line > (i.e. one starting with at least one "*")! Otherwise the shift-arrow > keys simply give the error > "Not in an item", and blocks a potentially useful binding without > real benefit. > > Would it therefore be possible to only switch on the org-specific > shift-arrow binding on item lines, > where they are only useful anyhow? I.e. instead of printing the > error message, one could fall back > to whatever the standard binding outside org-mode is. This would be > fairly intuitive from a user > point of view in my opinion. The only complication might be to > decide, what should happen, when > shift-selecting from a non-item line into an item line. > > Andreas From carsten.dominik@gmail.com Mon Jan 26 05:26:21 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 26 Jan 2009 13:26:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.169]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0QDQCP1007558 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:26:14 -0800 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 17so138438ugm.14 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:26:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=rzocHT8U7CxnyKOE3jp0FiEnIQlcvdUYnFBCmHIWs1E=; b=NTJDGczYhTdi0lYyDRrvwQvTahLUgbVYbkvlnolwDd9vM7bjG99Wq5EIFjccfv6WjR 6TSGLJhOIPspIrYdxEOwxsUu6NmMXlUsSddS94fPrmRUSqfJtRV1WNMK0wuMoOXRQP6M LTbKUJQf/aidD5VxdffAin9WzD6sf4z5xsFPE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=XEzWVavmX9yWALh7SRx+LdDkemF7cp3FUe3szlsoTJJva4di6S2ZxklqFPrgAc3NOv TAvsuFj2ZwC/r7QrS86sGbigiD9hpoTsUPESHDUOOb16T1BWkX+yH05KC2zjbaaGcjVO H7aqBj734MND4IJM+XNRj2zv7ZD+cth5yDtqE= Received: by 10.67.32.18 with SMTP id k18mr1265632ugj.27.1232976372085; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nb-dominik2.science.uva.nl (nb-dominik2.science.uva.nl [146.50.22.167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e33sm8299749ugd.34.2009.01.26.05.26.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:26:10 -0800 (PST) Sender: Carsten Dominik Cc: 1958@debbugs.gnu.org, Lennart Borgman , Chong Yidong , Carsten Dominik , Bastien Guerry Message-Id: <2E77B82A-EE5D-49F1-A4F2-5D79EFDD9D03@uva.nl> From: Carsten Dominik To: Andreas Amann In-Reply-To: <200901231234.41025.andreas.amann@tyndall.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:26:08 +0100 References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <200901231234.41025.andreas.amann@tyndall.ie> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Hi, I do now have an implementation that does just what Andreas proposes: It will allow shift selection to proceed outside special contexts. Furthermore, if the region is already started, it will extend regions even across special contexts. The question is: Should this still go into Emacs 23.1? If yes, I can install it later today. Thanks. - Carsten On Jan 23, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Andreas Amann wrote: > > May I just add one little aspect to this: > > Note that in org-mode the shift-arrow keys only work, when the > cursor is on an item line > (i.e. one starting with at least one "*")! Otherwise the shift-arrow > keys simply give the error > "Not in an item", and blocks a potentially useful binding without > real benefit. > > Would it therefore be possible to only switch on the org-specific > shift-arrow binding on item lines, > where they are only useful anyhow? I.e. instead of printing the > error message, one could fall back > to whatever the standard binding outside org-mode is. This would be > fairly intuitive from a user > point of view in my opinion. The only complication might be to > decide, what should happen, when > shift-selecting from a non-item line into an item line. > > Andreas From carsten.dominik@gmail.com Tue Jan 27 03:50:57 2009 Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jan 2009 11:50:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail-ew0-f10.google.com (mail-ew0-f10.google.com [209.85.219.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0RBomto026468 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:50:50 -0800 Received: by ewy3 with SMTP id 3so8396630ewy.1 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:50:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=PDTt6Tssmi42Y04t4ej0UBdXxkGc/PkEkHSx9/pQs/s=; b=mR0zeBVsrKl8m09PiU+7NxK+3kNF0toyZbGCnHndmcTegnlcqCSdf/Z5SBM73n3a4j 3AzflxFjCm9mLC1kv2tXSF5G+Y6v2m8qdGpY/ScqWjwzYqU2LcsP5gaLa7wTSb0mkhRn wQo++ghQ4scIhghKQTFoQIQFyRR0XYLxpnnic= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=wI9gsqxuHSLGqL8RnTqjxeHkuLwD8EhSQvlbYCuvX0YPwHEYyGGGP9igA43ZMY1kOe VBFJgFyd/uJ13czE0RqGZFe4nZIcA8s0cX9djMdbfngVKMj/tmEPxMMbAm4ZXDxn9ePd z7vD8sFPaPqq9IpgTurf8rYxVXBqirxhwjShA= Received: by 10.210.91.17 with SMTP id o17mr465315ebb.28.1233056890273; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:48:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nb-dominik2.science.uva.nl (nb-dominik2.science.uva.nl [146.50.22.167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm44150717nfv.58.2009.01.27.03.46.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:46:29 -0800 (PST) Sender: Carsten Dominik Cc: 1958@debbugs.gnu.org, Lennart Borgman , Chong Yidong , Carsten Dominik Message-Id: <46BCBBB3-2ECB-471E-AE22-D5D0A6C088E1@uva.nl> From: Carsten Dominik To: Andreas Amann In-Reply-To: <200901231234.41025.andreas.amann@tyndall.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:46:26 +0100 References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <200901231234.41025.andreas.amann@tyndall.ie> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) This bug is now closed, do I need to do something to mark it as such? I have now checked in a patch that allows users to set a variable to get shift-selection working in most or all of Org. But the default remains to be the old behavior, because it seems to may that automatically doing shift-selection in some places but not in other will be confusing to users. The solution is now that an attempt to do shift selection will cause an error message with a pointer to the variable that needs to be configured. In this way, users can make an informed decision. - Carsten On Jan 23, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Andreas Amann wrote: > > May I just add one little aspect to this: > > Note that in org-mode the shift-arrow keys only work, when the > cursor is on an item line > (i.e. one starting with at least one "*")! Otherwise the shift-arrow > keys simply give the error > "Not in an item", and blocks a potentially useful binding without > real benefit. > > Would it therefore be possible to only switch on the org-specific > shift-arrow binding on item lines, > where they are only useful anyhow? I.e. instead of printing the > error message, one could fall back > to whatever the standard binding outside org-mode is. This would be > fairly intuitive from a user > point of view in my opinion. The only complication might be to > decide, what should happen, when > shift-selecting from a non-item line into an item line. > > Andreas From cyd@stupidchicken.com Tue Jan 27 06:02:58 2009 Received: (at 1958-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jan 2009 14:02:58 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0RE2t1f027533 for <1958-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:02:56 -0800 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 63CFA57E197; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:03:25 -0500 (EST) From: Chong Yidong To: Carsten Dominik Cc: Andreas Amann , 1958-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Lennart Borgman Subject: Re: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <200901231234.41025.andreas.amann@tyndall.ie> <46BCBBB3-2ECB-471E-AE22-D5D0A6C088E1@uva.nl> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:03:25 -0500 In-Reply-To: <46BCBBB3-2ECB-471E-AE22-D5D0A6C088E1@uva.nl> (Carsten Dominik's message of "Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:46:26 +0100") Message-ID: <87fxj4luc2.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Carsten Dominik writes: > This bug is now closed, do I need to do something to mark it as such? To close a bug, just send a CC to ####-done@debbugs.gnu.org. I've done that right now. From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:40:45 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: $requester Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # A New Hope # A log time ago, in a galaxy far, far away # something happened. # # Magically this resulted in the following # action being taken, but this fake control # message doesn't tell you why it happened # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator