From unknown Fri Sep 05 09:11:19 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#1947 <1947@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#1947 <1947@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 23.0.60; Please document use of `dired' with an explicit file list Reply-To: bug#1947 <1947@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 16:11:19 +0000 retitle 1947 23.0.60; Please document use of `dired' with an explicit file = list reassign 1947 emacs submitter 1947 "Drew Adams" severity 1947 minor tag 1947 wontfix thanks From drew.adams@oracle.com Sun Jan 18 10:44:48 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 18 Jan 2009 18:44:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.0 tests=FVGT_m_MULTI_ODD autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0IIije1008645 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:44:46 -0800 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:46611) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LOccA-0004fq-Fb for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:43:18 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LOcdX-0000by-9C for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:44:44 -0500 Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:23347) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LOcdW-0000bB-Ge for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:44:42 -0500 Received: from acsinet13.oracle.com (acsinet13.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n0IIkK6m013442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:46:21 GMT Received: from acsmt702.oracle.com (acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80]) by acsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n0IIjGQD020263 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:45:17 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.128.33) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:44:33 +0000 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 23.0.60; Please document use of `dired' with an explicit file list Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:44:47 -0800 Message-ID: <007e01c9799c$d6bdecc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 thread-index: Acl5nNYxgP994XM9Sp+63P5cNU7dBw== X-Source-IP: acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A09020A.49737893.016D:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) As far as I can tell, the use of `dired' with an explicit list of file and directory names is undocumented (beyond the source code). It is mentioned in neither the Emacs manual nor the Elisp manual. This is a useful feature - at least as useful as many of the other Dired features that are documented. Questions about being able to open Dired with an explicit list of files from different directories are asked from time to time on help-gnu-emacs. The logical place to document this is in the Emacs manual, node `Dired Enter'. That's so, even though to use this feature you must have a list of file names. A simple example using `defvar' or `setq' to define such a list would be sufficient - there are similar simple uses of Emacs Lisp in the Emacs manual. In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-01-04 on LENNART-69DE564 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/g/include -fno-crossjumping' From geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 19:19:28 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 03:19:29 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=FVGT_m_MULTI_ODD, HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0K3JOeP016098 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:19:26 -0800 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LP799-0004CL-Tx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:19:23 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LP798-00049B-7A for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:19:23 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=38125 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LP797-00048y-Su for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:19:21 -0500 Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:56768 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LP797-000465-Gi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:19:21 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1LP796-00083W-0I for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 03:19:20 +0000 Received: from c-67-161-145-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([67.161.145.183]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 03:19:19 +0000 Received: from kevin.d.rodgers by c-67-161-145-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 03:19:19 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Kevin Rodgers Subject: Re: bug#1947: 23.0.60; Please document use of `dired' with an explicit file list Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:20:00 -0700 Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <007e01c9799c$d6bdecc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-67-161-145-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Macintosh/20081209) In-Reply-To: <007e01c9799c$d6bdecc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Sender: news Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) Drew Adams wrote: > As far as I can tell, the use of `dired' with an explicit list of file > and directory names is undocumented (beyond the source code). It is > mentioned in neither the Emacs manual nor the Elisp manual. > > This is a useful feature - at least as useful as many of the other > Dired features that are documented. Questions about being able to > open Dired with an explicit list of files from different directories > are asked from time to time on help-gnu-emacs. > > The logical place to document this is in the Emacs manual, node `Dired > Enter'. That's so, even though to use this feature you must have a > list of file names. A simple example using `defvar' or `setq' to > define such a list would be sufficient - there are similar simple uses > of Emacs Lisp in the Emacs manual. It is explained in dired's doc string. Since the only way to use this feature is via Lisp (not M-x), I think the Emacs Lisp manual would be a better place to document it. -- Kevin Rodgers Denver, Colorado, USA From rgm@gnu.org Tue Jan 20 12:56:49 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 20:56:49 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.3 required=4.0 tests=MISSING_SUBJECT,NOSUBJECT, VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KKuk6u023700 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:56:47 -0800 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LPNcx-0008Na-Lm; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:55:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18806.14899.594100.974080@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:55:15 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: control reassign 1883 emacs,org-mode reassign 1905 emacs,emacs-www reassign 1925 emacs,org-mode merge 1929 1930 reassign 1941 emacs,org-mode reassign 1944 emacs,org-mode severity 1947 minor reassign 1953 emacs,cc-mode reassign 1958 emacs,org-mode close 1969 reassign 1971 spam From lekktu@gmail.com Sat Jan 24 05:21:16 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 24 Jan 2009 13:21:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.8 required=4.0 tests=MISSING_SUBJECT,NOSUBJECT, PHONENUMBER,VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail-ew0-f10.google.com (mail-ew0-f10.google.com [209.85.219.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0ODLCeZ023904 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:21:14 -0800 Received: by ewy3 with SMTP id 3so5801145ewy.1 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:21:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xXa9eJVBndAYpPlZV8dLwqFosNsK4rqZOXRdWeYuJ4Q=; b=FSm4a7/ADlwvXftqIX5VnzAVcCu/qib11/WaJF0LyO3OJgKUp/NoIlvVk00YYAmQF5 dKWaUoM9GnZq+bL0SJD4rmcaiXm/3DZz1Gk86c0l73B/wLm05ZnrpbLuhWt/UvChd+Da t4TYf4l4StJDbisL5VT8nHaax0U9aF0FVlars= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=ZTn4XF1egvmTGHFRvkqbsxdU3rXu4MiBWbTgcNKLgroBbFd0Tx/g2yd1YFAh6K4Q9l IVNvAMcs7GZuIg4hfmUU9io9zK5caCM70VAcodynraeu2Bo5NapviQJKWm7IJfMzcKX/ J1Zf8PnYatGaoHWFE1/9qKg1u3yUg8bpcdwOs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.41.14 with SMTP id o14mr1847258ebo.22.1232803267097; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:21:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:21:07 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: From: Juanma Barranquero To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit reassign 1207 emacs,w32 reassign 140 emacs,python reassign 359 emacs,python reassign 1985 emacs,python reassign 1987 emacs,python reassign 881 emacs,python reassign 949 emacs,documentation reassign 957 emacs,documentation reassign 965 emacs,documentation reassign 1010 emacs,documentation reassign 1084 emacs,documentation reassign 1193 emacs,documentation reassign 1581 emacs,documentation reassign 1807 emacs,documentation reassign 1989 emacs,documentation reassign 1184 emacs,documentation reassign 1381 emacs,documentation reassign 74 emacs,documentation reassign 1351 emacs,documentation reassign 1478 emacs,documentation reassign 1526 emacs,documentation reassign 1947 emacs,documentation reassign 352 emacs,documentation reassign 575 emacs,documentation quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 10:58:33 2011 Received: (at 1947) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2011 14:58:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QfvSr-0001MS-9X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 10:58:33 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QfvSp-0001MA-KT for 1947@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 10:58:32 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QfvSd-0001lp-Hn; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:58:19 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Kevin Rodgers Subject: Re: bug#1947: 23.0.60; Please document use of `dired' with an explicit file list In-Reply-To: (Kevin Rodgers's message of "Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:20:00 -0700") Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:58:05 +0200 Message-ID: References: <007e01c9799c$d6bdecc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Boris's _New Album (vinyl)_: "Flare" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110710:kevin.d.rodgers@gmail.com::Rn2KWIp3jU8NL/oA:000000000000000000000000000000000000NwLH X-Hashcash: 1:23:110710:1947@debbugs.gnu.org::SBWlaf3sH+isb7Uu:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000xaTo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QfvSd-0001lp-Hn X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310914699.77848@7bIP+aclnDOoI/sFuh9n1A X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1947 Cc: 1947@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Kevin Rodgers writes: > It is explained in dired's doc string. Since the only way to use this > feature is via Lisp (not M-x), I think the Emacs Lisp manual would be a > better place to document it. However, the Emacs Lisp manual doesn't document dired at all, so I think the current solution is best -- leave the documentation in the doc string of the `dired' command. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 10:58:27 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2011 14:58:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QfvSl-0001MC-1H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 10:58:27 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QfvSj-0001M0-9X for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 10:58:25 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QfvSX-0001lY-Tu for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:58:13 +0200 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:58:13 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #1947 X-MailScanner-ID: 1QfvSX-0001lY-Tu X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310914694.18757@4W4YfHLKPpY4TobsLcnjDg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) tags 1947 wontfix close 1947 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 13:36:58 2011 Received: (at 1947) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2011 17:36:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QfxwA-0008IG-HN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:36:58 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qfxw9-0008I5-Qm for 1947@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:36:58 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6AHaoaU001010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 Jul 2011 17:36:51 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6AHanrl012782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 10 Jul 2011 17:36:49 GMT Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6AHahUL009260; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 12:36:43 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.32.168) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 10:36:43 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" , "'Kevin Rodgers'" References: <007e01c9799c$d6bdecc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#1947: 23.0.60; Please document use of `dired' with an explicit file list Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 10:36:33 -0700 Message-ID: <0D8BD9F7F323447A9E4083525EC00174@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acw/Efe5GElOMamNQd6G+kINZlabjQAFUy3w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4E19E334.001A:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1947 Cc: 1947@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > > It is explained in dired's doc string. Since the only way > > to use this feature is via Lisp (not M-x), I think the Emacs Lisp > > manual would be a better place to document it. > > However, the Emacs Lisp manual doesn't document dired at all, > so I think the current solution is best -- leave the > documentation in the doc string of the `dired' command. No, that does not address the bug report at all. The goal should be to improve Emacs for users, not simply to close bugs willy nilly without addressing them. This should be documented in the _Emacs_ manual. Not everything that requires a little Emacs Lisp is relegated to the Elisp manual. This is something that ordinary users should be made aware of. Simply mentioning it in the doc string of `dired' is not sufficient. Time has proven this to be the case. Although this is a very useful and very easy to use feature, few users are aware of it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 13:46:34 2011 Received: (at 1947) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2011 17:46:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qfy5R-0008Vm-QF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:46:34 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qfy5O-0008VW-U8 for 1947@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:46:32 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LO400300PCI8M00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 1947@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:46:24 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.156.102]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LO40027MPDA13V0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:46:23 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:47:42 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#1947: 23.0.60; Please document use of `dired' with an explicit file list In-reply-to: <0D8BD9F7F323447A9E4083525EC00174@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <8362nani2p.fsf@gnu.org> References: <007e01c9799c$d6bdecc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <0D8BD9F7F323447A9E4083525EC00174@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1947 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, kevin.d.rodgers@gmail.com, 1947@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 10:36:33 -0700 > Cc: 1947@debbugs.gnu.org > > This is something that ordinary users should be made aware of. Simply > mentioning it in the doc string of `dired' is not sufficient. I disagree. Users are supposed to read _both_ doc strings and the manual. Therefore, something mentioned in the doc string does not necessarily has to be described in the manual as well, especially if it's an obscure feature used in special situations. The manual is for describing things better, in more easily readable form, without restrictions of doc string format. But it doesn't have to tell everything. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 14:31:26 2011 Received: (at 1947) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2011 18:31:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qfymr-00028G-EQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 14:31:25 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qfymp-00027s-DB for 1947@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 14:31:24 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6AIVFvZ004096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 Jul 2011 18:31:17 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6AIVErx015227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 10 Jul 2011 18:31:15 GMT Received: from abhmt117.oracle.com (abhmt117.oracle.com [141.146.116.69]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6AIV9RL030405; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:31:09 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.32.168) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 11:31:08 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" References: <007e01c9799c$d6bdecc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <0D8BD9F7F323447A9E4083525EC00174@us.oracle.com> <8362nani2p.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#1947: 23.0.60; Please document use of `dired' with an explicit file list Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 11:30:59 -0700 Message-ID: <67F360FF8E7F49E582A886209C30DC46@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <8362nani2p.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Acw/KU8WXRXWaTXiQtGfWk7rARAk5wABJcoQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4E19EFF5.0098:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1947 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, kevin.d.rodgers@gmail.com, 1947@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > > This is something that ordinary users should be made aware > > of. Simply mentioning it in the doc string of `dired' is > > not sufficient. > > I disagree. Users are supposed to read _both_ doc strings and the > manual. Therefore, something mentioned in the doc string does not > necessarily has to be described in the manual as well, Irrelevant: * No one said anything about what users are "supposed to do". * No one argued that either doc strings or the manual is a substitute for the other. * No one said that everything that is mentioned in any doc string "necessarily" needs to be described also in the manual. Your arguments are facile, but you are arguing against a straw man. It's about _this_ particular feature, whose description, in passing, in the `dired' doc string has proven to be insufficient to make users aware of this very useful feature. > especially if it's an obscure feature used in special situations. Not relevant here. This is a very useful, although relatively unknown, feature. This feature is not obscure by its nature; it is simply not known well enough. This bug report is about obviating some of that ignorance. > The manual is for describing things better, in more easily readable > form, without restrictions of doc string format. But it doesn't have > to tell everything. Irrelevant; straw man. No one said the manual has "to tell everything". Speak not in useless generalities, please. Speak to _this_ bug report; speak about the documentation of _this_ Dired feature. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 14:43:06 2011 Received: (at 1947) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2011 18:43:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QfyyA-0002R4-9O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 14:43:06 -0400 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qfyy7-0002QZ-Ad for 1947@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 14:43:04 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LO400300RT0BD00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 1947@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:42:57 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.156.102]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LO4003F0RZJB530@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:42:57 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:44:24 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#1947: 23.0.60; Please document use of `dired' with an explicit file list In-reply-to: <67F360FF8E7F49E582A886209C30DC46@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <831uxynfg7.fsf@gnu.org> References: <007e01c9799c$d6bdecc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <0D8BD9F7F323447A9E4083525EC00174@us.oracle.com> <8362nani2p.fsf@gnu.org> <67F360FF8E7F49E582A886209C30DC46@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1947 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, kevin.d.rodgers@gmail.com, 1947@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , , <1947@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 11:30:59 -0700 > > Your arguments are facile, but you are arguing against a straw man. > [...] > Speak not in useless generalities, please. Abusive as usual... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 16:07:51 2011 Received: (at 1947) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2011 20:07:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qg0IB-00057X-HQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:07:51 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qg0I7-00057J-Tn for 1947@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:07:48 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6AK7dO2029453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:07:41 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6AK7cB6005699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:07:39 GMT Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6AK7XqG007066; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 15:07:33 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.32.168) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:07:33 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" References: <007e01c9799c$d6bdecc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <0D8BD9F7F323447A9E4083525EC00174@us.oracle.com> <8362nani2p.fsf@gnu.org> <67F360FF8E7F49E582A886209C30DC46@us.oracle.com> <831uxynfg7.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#1947: 23.0.60; Please document use of `dired' with an explicit file list Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:07:23 -0700 Message-ID: <83FF5F0BF42A4CBE9E8599558045F633@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <831uxynfg7.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Acw/MTV56EJumivZQAiMjsFXpM89qwABMlqQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4E1A068D.00CD:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1947 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, kevin.d.rodgers@gmail.com, 1947@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > > you are arguing against a straw man.... > > Speak not in useless generalities, please. > > Abusive as usual... You are making an ad hominem attack. Arguments about the bug report, please. I'm sorry if you take offense, but pointing out that your argument was an unhelpful generality unrelated to the bug report or to any of the arguments advanced to support it is _not_ abuse. Perhaps you really thought that I argued that everything in every doc string must also be in the manual. But I doubt it. You've said similar things before (over and over, in fact), and each time I've pointed out that I haven't made such a claim. I think you know full well by now that this is a straw man argument you're erecting. But whether you recognized it before or not, please recognize now that I did not argue any such thing, and that your countering such a nonexistent claim is irrelevant, distracting, and unhelpful. Yes, not everything in every doc string belongs also in the manual. So what? What about _this_ particular feature? You might not like having it pointed out that your argument does not address the issue, but pointing that out is neither ad hominem nor irrelevant. It's trying to get back on track, to this particular issue. I'm sorry if you feel hurt or angry. Please relax. Try not to be so personally close to your arguments. It's not about you, or me; there is nothing personal here. We all make irrelevant arguments sometimes. Let's keep the discussion on track: it's about the bug report. Give some arguments why this particular feature should not be documented in the manual, please. We should all be trying to help the users here; that's all. We have 20 (!) nodes in the Emacs manual about Dired. I feel that this relatively unknown feature is an important (useful) Dired feature, worth pointing out somewhere among those 20 sections. If someone wants to learn about particular Dired features (there are many), s?he will not necessarily consult only the `dired' doc string. S?he will sometimes consult the manual first, or instead. You say that users "are supposed to" consult both. Fine, but a user will not necessarily look to the doc string for info about particular Dired features - and if s?he does s?he will be quite disappointed in general. Not to mention that users do not always do what you might think they are "supposed to" do. It's about helping users get information that we think could be useful to them. I think this particular info is very useful - and not at all obvious. You are free to disagree, and that's where I would like to see arguments. Let us know why this info is not something we should be communicating better. From unknown Fri Sep 05 09:11:19 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator