From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:31:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 19423 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19423@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.14191821008660 (code B ref -1); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:15:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2014 17:15:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53975 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5r-0002Fb-HD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46185) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5p-0002FT-DF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:58 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5e-0005ox-NH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:56 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:38805) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5e-0005ot-Jz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47865) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5V-0008Lt-PN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:46 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5N-0005bG-17 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:37 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:21922) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5M-0005a6-RC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:28 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sBLHERfg007806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:14:28 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLHEQDg012817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:14:27 GMT Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLHEQSR006554 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:14:26 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 09:14:28 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This change, made long ago unfortunately, is incompatible. Previous to the change, `make-obsolete' accepted only 2 args. It should still be possible to use the function with only 2 args, as well as with 3. This was presumably a careless oversight, and not intended as part of the change to adding parameter WHEN. The doc string in fact indicates that this was not intended: If provided, WHEN should be a string indicating when the function ^^^^^^^^^^^ was first made obsolete, for example a date or a release number. In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-10-20 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 118168 rgm@gnu.org-20141020195941-icp42t8ttcnud09g Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CPPFLAGS=3D-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1' From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:31:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19423 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19423@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19423-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19423.14191823499116 (code B ref 19423); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:20:02 +0000 Received: (at 19423) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2014 17:19:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53988 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k9s-0002My-M9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:19:08 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27454) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k9q-0002Mo-Cv for 19423@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:19:06 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sBLHJ4C5011398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <19423@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:19:05 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sBLHJ426003751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <19423@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:19:04 GMT Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLHJ3qB003730 for <19423@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:19:03 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 09:19:05 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Even worse. It turns out that when parameter WHEN was added Emacs Dev did the right thing: it *was* optional. In Emacs 23 someone unwisely changed it to mandatory, an incompatible change that gratuitously breaks code that could be used with older Emacs releases. Pain for no real gain. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:31:33 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.503) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Drew Adams Subject: bug#19423: closed (Re: bug#19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional) Message-ID: References: <867fxkdecx.fsf@yandex.ru> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 19423 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 19423@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:54:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1419188042-18055-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1419188042-18055-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg sho= uld be optional which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 19423@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 19423: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D19423 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1419188042-18055-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 19423-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2014 18:53:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54021 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2ld3-0004gH-AD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 13:53:21 -0500 Received: from mail-wi0-f175.google.com ([209.85.212.175]:55933) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2ld1-0004g9-5j for 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 13:53:19 -0500 Received: by mail-wi0-f175.google.com with SMTP id l15so6301424wiw.2 for <19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 10:53:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=tdj70cU0j6yaobWhxgy/+kcmGqILKS3/BgzoIvB4HLo=; b=Vl8dItYJibu66llP7MYZQuTyyN0LcOElREasYYMgIa5wNNab+NcTkt0i11wuFPCVU9 d3eoqcy9laE4w6ZfQv4woGFYnkd6IbHLe7haGUIhSdm7AJWvwIrV0PYBUm900KldqP3j 9xrjuB9me1rHXNO0ju/LDFuUkVCE6TqiPXpAbq/WUS7SZQGG4cgUtP0VIOe4OycTndEd KnjuK+x51tTHceQwdzUe/SkS2hw2a9I0ZXlQVHvWb9olOqGFigjeaz+9UZgvk02sY1Z+ 8M6r5ZLSgY1lWcHVGj3UAcwkMjOOpOAaCXA/9LMQbTl/BqQ2LekI+x95Q/bw2wviW324 f3SA== X-Received: by 10.194.121.167 with SMTP id ll7mr33449769wjb.26.1419187998463; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 10:53:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from axl ([82.102.93.54]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id td6sm10426950wic.15.2014.12.21.10.53.14 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 10:53:17 -0800 (PST) From: Dmitry Gutov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional References: Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:53:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 21 Dec 2014 09:19:05 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <867fxkdecx.fsf@yandex.ru> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19423-done Cc: 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Drew Adams writes: > In Emacs 23 someone unwisely changed it to mandatory, an > incompatible change that gratuitously breaks code that could > be used with older Emacs releases. Pain for no real gain. You should look at the code sometimes. The change is very much compatible: `make-obsolete' can still be called with only two arguments without error. The third one is only mandatory in the advertised calling convention. Even if it wasn't, it would be too late to fix the "problem": it wouldn't work in 23 and 24 anyway. ------------=_1419188042-18055-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2014 17:15:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53975 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5r-0002Fb-HD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46185) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5p-0002FT-DF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:58 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5e-0005ox-NH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:56 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:38805) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5e-0005ot-Jz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47865) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5V-0008Lt-PN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:46 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5N-0005bG-17 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:37 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:21922) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2k5M-0005a6-RC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:14:28 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sBLHERfg007806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:14:28 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLHEQDg012817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:14:27 GMT Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLHEQSR006554 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:14:26 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 09:14:28 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This change, made long ago unfortunately, is incompatible. Previous to the change, `make-obsolete' accepted only 2 args. It should still be possible to use the function with only 2 args, as well as with 3. This was presumably a careless oversight, and not intended as part of the change to adding parameter WHEN. The doc string in fact indicates that this was not intended: If provided, WHEN should be a string indicating when the function ^^^^^^^^^^^ was first made obsolete, for example a date or a release number. In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-10-20 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 118168 rgm@gnu.org-20141020195941-icp42t8ttcnud09g Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CPPFLAGS=3D-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1' ------------=_1419188042-18055-1-- From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:31:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:59:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19423 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov Cc: 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D19423.141918832518507 (code D ref 19423); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:59:02 +0000 Received: (at 19423-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2014 18:58:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54028 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2liH-0004oR-2e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 13:58:45 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:19474) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2liE-0004oG-GY for 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 13:58:43 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sBLIwehv027405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:58:41 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLIwcnm010811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:58:39 GMT Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLIwcNd019078; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:58:38 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 10:58:40 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <867fxkdecx.fsf@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <867fxkdecx.fsf@yandex.ru> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > In Emacs 23 someone unwisely changed it to mandatory, an > > incompatible change that gratuitously breaks code that could > > be used with older Emacs releases. Pain for no real gain. >=20 > You should look at the code sometimes. You should look at the byte-compiler warning that the user sees. It tells her that only 2 args are present but 3 are *required*. > The change is very much compatible: `make-obsolete' can still be > called with only two arguments without error. The third one is only > mandatory in the advertised calling convention. See above. The byte-compiler tells you that it is mandatory. > Even if it wasn't, it would be too late to fix the "problem": it > wouldn't work in 23 and 24 anyway. No, but it would work for Emacs 25, and releases prior to 23. There is no good reason *not* to fix it, is there? From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:31:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 19:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19423 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov Cc: 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D19423.141918847018824 (code D ref 19423); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 19:02:02 +0000 Received: (at 19423-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2014 19:01:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54032 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2lkb-0004tX-Ow for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 14:01:09 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:39956) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2lka-0004tQ-9f for 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 14:01:08 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sBLJ16gX010062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 19:01:07 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sBLJ16WY018079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 19:01:06 GMT Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLJ15dT023237; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 19:01:05 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <406a2673-1f3d-4adb-8e8e-e7705782fb2f@default> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 11:01:07 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <867fxkdecx.fsf@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > > In Emacs 23 someone unwisely changed it to mandatory, an > > > incompatible change that gratuitously breaks code that could > > > be used with older Emacs releases. Pain for no real gain. > > > > You should look at the code sometimes. >=20 > You should look at the byte-compiler warning that the user sees. > It tells her that only 2 args are present but 3 are *required*. >=20 > > The change is very much compatible: `make-obsolete' can still be > > called with only two arguments without error. The third one is > > only mandatory in the advertised calling convention. >=20 > See above. The byte-compiler tells you that it is mandatory. >=20 > > Even if it wasn't, it would be too late to fix the "problem": it > > wouldn't work in 23 and 24 anyway. >=20 > No, but it would work for Emacs 25, and releases prior to 23. >=20 > There is no good reason *not* to fix it, is there? Oh, I see that you already closed it. What a shame. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:31:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 19:07:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19423 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D19423.141918877419314 (code D ref 19423); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 19:07:01 +0000 Received: (at 19423-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2014 19:06:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54040 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2lpV-00051S-VY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 14:06:14 -0500 Received: from mail-wg0-f52.google.com ([74.125.82.52]:45750) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2lpT-00051J-UU for 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 14:06:12 -0500 Received: by mail-wg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id x12so5149807wgg.25 for <19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 11:06:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RLDMuYw8/71tK52+B3DivU7Ja/pO7y5V2G2UB5tyaiY=; b=dJotyFWyemxVysJ3oTRBbxz82xVGE0SxaxJDNxyMGikvmYvxzdjezl0xAoFLdA1q1m tXnwsQXlxQ0KbFYWVPm2OLmVtmQfupJpeZn+qKgPUrPt21jkxea87OgpKKXikPihlbyv FaDYMlOgiNuBDzVGdx5IsGmZVXw9hvlSEMX+vyUnoWYNwktrKF/SR9dNo9xHod0sPhvh ehPPD7/W+nZkNzfmPfPeC+px05NAjncNg0uXBxmEzMUXehcIm8+WiljN8Zp/Yows+SUO QzYIM0CVZmsdLOKaJgr5cTI1da4L5UzYZ8huSzqDG+03ozMlkn/UX8vjMYuuDBCHDzb9 +IMA== X-Received: by 10.180.97.195 with SMTP id ec3mr25131551wib.79.1419188771467; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 11:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([82.102.93.54]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id e7sm20867633wjf.18.2014.12.21.11.06.06 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 11:06:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54971A16.5030105@yandex.ru> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:05:58 +0200 From: Dmitry Gutov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <867fxkdecx.fsf@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 12/21/2014 08:58 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > You should look at the byte-compiler warning that the user sees. It's a warning, not an error. The code will work. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:31:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:34:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19423 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov Cc: 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D19423.141919401727571 (code D ref 19423); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:34:02 +0000 Received: (at 19423-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2014 20:33:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54061 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2nC5-0007Ad-Bh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:33:37 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:30275) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2nC3-0007AV-Mg for 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:33:36 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sBLKXXeI018320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:33:34 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLKXWfu025730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:33:32 GMT Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLKXWPI025727; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:33:32 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1508ca96-d335-49bd-9e97-59d968b467f5@default> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:33:34 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <867fxkdecx.fsf@yandex.ru> <54971A16.5030105@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <54971A16.5030105@yandex.ru> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > You should look at the byte-compiler warning that the user sees. >=20 > It's a warning, not an error. The code will work. The warning is blatantly incorrect - the 3rd arg is not required. It misleads. There is no need for such a "warning" - nothing to warn users about, since the argument is optional. It serves no useful purpose. It causes harm by lying to users, confusing and misleading them. There is no good reason not to fix this now. And no reason at all to close it. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:31:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19423 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D19423.141919436628145 (code D ref 19423); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:40:02 +0000 Received: (at 19423-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2014 20:39:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54070 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2nHh-0007Js-Nz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:39:25 -0500 Received: from mail-wg0-f47.google.com ([74.125.82.47]:58880) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2nHc-0007Jc-FC for 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:39:23 -0500 Received: by mail-wg0-f47.google.com with SMTP id n12so5284382wgh.34 for <19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:39:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=w45Z4o01apOxUFvWZn+eR9BrzelUGQEim94VlXgJk/4=; b=YWHxq6eZasWaoFVHeHE+7jPxeRiCBjQKEuu2Iv9bZ+GftWjdyi1q4eRDbhes1romjw SnC3YoOaDYJMUOsbE5Btbu/seVtLh9oBjz77tdB9tJXRwBQGV8N661vvIKXGkiy2UuWS vGD6H0hnzeopa2/ehUUzM0LtdO0VZ3oPOWr4M1lEJ61zGrQaGUPwxZ+vFEGiV9iDF9BG WRqUyqiX/o/QVqvigdiWJK4nRIVfvCnKnMC6iPUbAdCbBExfXwaaV/cgaYeEaY2KA9rL yJrpeInERtWfqNdjYprI2k02PNhzq7ct9BwfnW8wGihILouE3BmvDFm153Tp+mI8PjPJ KF/w== X-Received: by 10.194.6.70 with SMTP id y6mr19378773wjy.97.1419194359739; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([82.102.93.54]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id bj3sm10747900wib.3.2014.12.21.12.39.17 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:39:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54972FF2.607@yandex.ru> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 22:39:14 +0200 From: Dmitry Gutov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <867fxkdecx.fsf@yandex.ru> <54971A16.5030105@yandex.ru> <1508ca96-d335-49bd-9e97-59d968b467f5@default> In-Reply-To: <1508ca96-d335-49bd-9e97-59d968b467f5@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 12/21/2014 10:33 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > It misleads. There is no need for such a "warning" - nothing to > warn users about, since the argument is optional. It serves > no useful purpose. While the argument is still optional now, it won't be, at some point in the future. And there's a good reason to require this argument: people should annotate each obsoletion with the version when it happened. That change was made 5 years ago; let it go. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:31:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19423 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov Cc: 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D19423.141919622530979 (code D ref 19423); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:11:02 +0000 Received: (at 19423-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2014 21:10:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54074 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2nlg-00083a-6Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 16:10:25 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:18530) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2nld-00083P-EF for 19423-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 16:10:21 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sBLLAKqV023534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:10:20 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLLAJjX000407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:10:20 GMT Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLLAILg021982; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:10:18 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7aebc1bd-a587-4e78-b592-5197ea1ca791@default> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 13:10:20 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <867fxkdecx.fsf@yandex.ru> <54971A16.5030105@yandex.ru> <1508ca96-d335-49bd-9e97-59d968b467f5@default> <54972FF2.607@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <54972FF2.607@yandex.ru> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > It misleads. There is no need for such a "warning" - nothing to > > warn users about, since the argument is optional. It serves > > no useful purpose. >=20 > While the argument is still optional now, it won't be, at some point > in the future.=20 Why should it? > And there's a good reason to require this argument: people > should annotate each obsoletion with the version when it happened. That is *not* a good reason to make the argument mandatory. That is a good reason to document why they should do so and thus encourage them to do so. Making such an argument mandatory for that reason alone is quite misguided. > That change was made 5 years ago; let it go. It is trivial to fix the mistake, no matter how long ago it was made. Again, there is no good reason *not* to fix this. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 21 21:51:31 2014 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Dec 2014 02:51:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54137 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2t5m-0002dN-QV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:51:31 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:15216) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2t5j-0002d6-Iv; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:51:28 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AssIAOwQflTO+ILA/2dsb2JhbABbgweDYMgVgmIEAgKBJBcBAQEBAQF8hAMBAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSISgnWWQEBAQEBAQEDAQEBAQEdkG8HhEgFiwGkLoF4gjeBYiGCdwEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: AssIAOwQflTO+ILA/2dsb2JhbABbgweDYMgVgmIEAgKBJBcBAQEBAQF8hAMBAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSISgnWWQEBAQEBAQEDAQEBAQEdkG8HhEgFiwGkLoF4gjeBYiGCdwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,502,1413259200"; d="scan'208";a="103139075" Received: from 206-248-130-192.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.130.192]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 21 Dec 2014 21:51:26 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 796BB217C; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:51:26 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#19423: 25.0.50; incompatible change to `make-obsolete' - added 3rd arg should be optional Message-ID: References: Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:51:26 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 21 Dec 2014 09:19:05 -0800 (PST)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control Cc: 194230done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) tags 19423 notabug thanks > In Emacs 23 someone unwisely changed it to mandatory, an I like to be unwise. That's why, Stefan