From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; "You can run the command `debug-on-entry' with M-x deb-o RET" Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 03:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.141671250522148 (code B ref -1); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 03:16:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2014 03:15:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42122 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNde-0005kl-W2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:15:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51455) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNdb-0005kD-Nz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:15:00 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNdR-0003dW-7g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:14:59 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:51019) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNdR-0003dS-4s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:14:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53162) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNdI-0003Qw-B2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:14:49 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNd9-0003c9-Fz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:14:40 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:24929) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNd9-0003bY-9h for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:14:31 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sAN3EOuA002469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 03:14:24 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sAN3EMgF023622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 03:14:23 GMT Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sAN3ELu7008292 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 03:14:22 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 19:14:23 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Please remove such silly messages, which do not tell users about a *key sequence* bound to the command they entered. (Not to mention that you didn't even put "M-x deb-o RET" between `...'.) This is not progress. Noise, not help. What were you thinking? In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-10-20 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 118168 rgm@gnu.org-20141020195941-icp42t8ttcnud09g Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CPPFLAGS=3D-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1' From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; "You can run the command `debug-on-entry' with M-x deb-o RET" In-Reply-To: Resent-From: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:17:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.14167413885304 (code B ref -1); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:17:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2014 11:16:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42198 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsV9Y-0001NU-4s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:16:28 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44915) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsV9W-0001NL-9o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:16:27 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsV9P-0004Nb-QT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:16:25 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:50128) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsV9P-0004NW-ND for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:16:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46615) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsV9K-00021P-2g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:16:19 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsV9E-0004Mb-9g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:16:14 -0500 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:57028) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsV9E-0004MR-2f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:16:08 -0500 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XsV9B-00009j-SR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:16:05 +0100 Received: from p57ace038.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.172.224.56]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:16:05 +0100 Received: from dieter by p57ace038.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:16:05 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ From: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:15:53 +0100 Organization: The Church of Emacs Lines: 33 Message-ID: <87y4r26uc6.fsf@vsl28t2g.ww011> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p57ace038.dip0.t-ipconnect.de User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:y+fpxB9snAuG9C1+pAoXAGS/OKA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) Drew Adams writes: > Please remove such silly messages, which do not tell users about a *key > sequence* bound to the command they entered. Actually I find these messages very instructive for people like me, which had no idea about this (new with Emacs-25?) abbreviation ability! > (Not to mention that you didn't even put "M-x deb-o RET" between `...'.) `This could be an unmentioned improvement.' ;-) > This is not progress. Noise, not help. What were you thinking? In the contrary I appreciate such messages very much because they remind me to become more efficient. *But* above hint is not optimal! It should have been for example `M-x d-o- ' and not: M-x deb-o RET! ^^^^^^^^^^ So bug#19152 is for real, since the hints are not yet conforming to key binding conventions and might return an ambiguous and not optimal (regarding to speed) key sequence. Thank you for the key binding hints Dieter -- Best wishes H. Dieter Wilhelm Darmstadt, Germany From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: bug#19013: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Ivan Shmakov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19013@debbugs.gnu.org, 19152@debbugs.gnu.org, 19152-submitter@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14167434908776 (code B ref 19152); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2014 11:51:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42222 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsVhR-0002HO-LT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:51:29 -0500 Received: from fely.am-1.org ([78.47.74.50]:41998) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsVhO-0002H0-AD; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:51:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=siamics.net; s=a2013295; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:Sender:References:Subject:To:From; bh=klhrTv0wnMAwmhIU0ipXCCnRI3rkXwQRCh1vmsXdkL4=; b=VO+qhkAe/OHtq5ZZOEFrR/pY0gipBjY1Lj158f0kJ0BlkMJ0BiHvmjKSJV11+1+QY4I/djuqj1lGlDZ5lvccJ+mGxV1b/30XraISPBBfgz8kBo4mlM+6Oskq2kRrDDdUe2IHtqEaOFme2BLR0SU8nYNJ5H/heQ4B9rITNZuGvTs=; Received: from [2a02:2560:6d4:26ca::1:1d] (helo=violet.siamics.net) by fely.am-1.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsVhH-0005XM-16; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:51:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=violet.siamics.net) by violet.siamics.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsVgk-0004dk-NU; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 18:50:46 +0700 From: Ivan Shmakov References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:50:45 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> (Ivan Shmakov's message of "Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:14:52 +0000") Message-ID: <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> Ivan Shmakov writes: (BTW, what about merging #19013 and #19152?) [=E2=80=A6] > M-x beginning-of-visual-line RET; then, after some time, =E2=80=93 M-x <= up> > RET =E2=80=93 the same message gets shown, even though M-x is for s= ure > shorter than M-x b-v. > I believe there should be a variable to customize this behavior > (say, suggest-shorter-command-limit; defaulting to 5, but with nil as > an option to disable such suggestions altogether.) As a workaround, > I=E2=80=99ve simply disabled it entirely (see the patch MIMEd.) Please consider the patch MIMEd. * lisp/simple.el (suggest-shorter-command-limit): New customizable variable. (execute-extended-command--shorter): Respect `suggest-shorter-command-limit'. (execute-extended-command): Likewise. --=20 FSF associate member #7257 np. Your Leaving =E2=80=94 Jami Sieber =E2=80= =A6 B6A0 230E 334A --=-=-= Content-Type: text/diff Content-Disposition: inline --- a/lisp/simple.el 2014-11-21 09:21:50 +0000 +++ b/lisp/simple.el 2014-11-23 11:34:08 +0000 @@ -1598,6 +1598,13 @@ (integer :tag "time" 2) (other :tag "on"))) +(defcustom suggest-shorter-command-limit 5 + "Only suggest the equivalent M-x invocation when shorter by this amount. +If the value is nil, do not suggest shorter M-x key-bindings at all." + :group 'keyboard + :type '(choice (const :tag "off" nil) + (integer :tag "characters"))) + (defun execute-extended-command--shorter-1 (name length) (cond ((zerop length) (list "")) @@ -1623,7 +1630,7 @@ defun execute-extended-command--shorter (name typed) name len))) ;; Don't show the help message if the binding isn't ;; significantly shorter than the M-x command the user typed. - (< len (- max 5)))) + (< len (- max suggest-shorter-command-limit)))) (let ((candidate (pop candidates))) (when (equal name (car-safe (completion-try-completion @@ -1680,7 +1687,8 @@ defun execute-extended-command (prefixarg &optional command-name typed) ((numberp suggest-key-bindings) suggest-key-bindings) (t 2))))) (when (and waited (not (consp unread-command-events))) - (unless (or binding executing-kbd-macro (not (symbolp function)) + (unless (or (not suggest-shorter-command-limit) + binding executing-kbd-macro (not (symbolp function)) (<= (length (symbol-name function)) 2)) ;; There's no binding for CMD. Let's try and find the shortest ;; string to use in M-x. --=-=-=-- From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; "You can run the command `debug-on-entry' with M-x deb-o RET" Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 15:38:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) Cc: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14167570231715 (code B ref 19152); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 15:38:03 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2014 15:37:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42772 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZDj-0000RU-BL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:37:03 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:46334) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZDh-0000Qe-Io for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:37:02 -0500 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZDP-0005gA-VJ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:36:44 +0100 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen References: <87y4r26uc6.fsf@vsl28t2g.ww011> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEUBAQaXx9dWkq4cNlIG DRg9a4nkNPIKAAACdUlEQVQ4jU2T3XKjMAyFNRP6ADjDfa2s71Nk39O1cl+s6P1fZY8g7dYzCaAP /R0JynOclBJuzvs4PNN5k5gZTymnb0h8XAaPsDBnzi+P88bd4YFTTg9merkWWJhT5nn5DdKCwzuX 4eWIXX5ASlFUYk/LL5AAFlvZ9tzOJLeZ8Oa8eIkcY152n1O0c2WKwgufxwdfB0eS66AdYKA/F7He PEdhJ0D9e+Iiqtuk3YYfWRsN+ALYnXBAnBN6LkJjPRqWjY7TG89g7jRyRobbyw7CuSDIANjnne0H yOACaQqNOUR6fttpGkgyZz5lT/ofNGSEinTModzpl0uY4IG5Ff9OMSG7OfQvlJmvchYL67TR5M2E jbyMYoJQivYOBnHEhVTcpQVQreF4cTEg6vgLoNJUorgJz7Ubhb1KhRaiVg8Plvo4gANMtZn2iPVW rIsKuVcAQwTTGrkeFhEqReoqMqkXa6hSEWLriH2mkItjrlwM9sbvWjWqgkO9DPcMgOk6/4mu6lHv dhnDY/B9xaUOlCcV5SuKbJgEOoNDeaT6RqJb1w2Rm4c20GncPtLjE0pUiPEAOUT7i7iWl48dIISA cq0grwHYmm850zRVulQ1WRNAXVHW4Bs+nP5V6fHsT1nhASlQNxpKM31eqzZrIl0cInYMcGDjMj6D qn68i7+NdEJZsSD4agEMJjTaK/YXL7zAU5vXiTZ0id/UpcWaHCBaxxoE0CkCuyeAm951izWgvm1A 6AY9AhS8FhsCSSfdtMenlsODNRwwu7tonXpNO8ASALWs7X039+I2nrgwRoJQFcP2r2FuRdp6j/Ww J2FzQ95zedFG32KirfwDBBG4fRLpkL4AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Missy "Misdemeanor" Elliott's _Miss E ...So Addictive_: "Dog In Heat (feat. Redman and Method Man)" X-Hashcash: 1:23:141123:dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de::8gSOPGtVvPzQCq/V:000000000000000000000000000000000068Rg X-Hashcash: 1:23:141123:19152@debbugs.gnu.org::F9g8nOb3fU5GH8oS:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000nPuu Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:36:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87y4r26uc6.fsf@vsl28t2g.ww011> (H. Dieter Wilhelm's message of "Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:15:53 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1XsZDP-0005gA-VJ X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1417361804.26692@DdRPGP4tosT6svcKjOL9mw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) writes: >> (Not to mention that you didn't even put "M-x deb-o RET" between `...'.) > > `This could be an unmentioned improvement.' ;-) > >> This is not progress. Noise, not help. What were you thinking? > > In the contrary I appreciate such messages very much because they remind > me to become more efficient. > > *But* above hint is not optimal! It should have > been for example `M-x d-o- ' and not: M-x deb-o RET! > ^^^^^^^^^^ Whether that's unique or not depends on what you have loaded. `M-x deb-o' or `M-x d-o-' is not sufficient for me due to me loading debbugs-gnu and stuff. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; "You can run the command `debug-on-entry' with M-x deb-o RET" Resent-From: Jay Belanger Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 15:42:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com Reply-To: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14167572772196 (code B ref 19152); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 15:42:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2014 15:41:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42779 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZHp-0000ZG-7P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:41:17 -0500 Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com ([209.85.214.172]:35294) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZHl-0000Yy-8q for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:41:14 -0500 Received: by mail-ob0-f172.google.com with SMTP id wn1so6121702obc.17 for <19152@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:41:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:references:reply-to:cc:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=P10GKImq8gUgF9QcSKwfUXFESBXo92TT5q5DWxJ5JfY=; b=CJpivzOh4tP3nUbRfN7Pm4udmvSVt4MNNFCTDVwDEHEAoYs6c8BCwLsOlDvGec5CHh WmdYUIPupCOFpw32uKz7jwuCbOt7AjVBVxeMXLAX/jE/zsXZbk5r9KecbpUQzukb0u4I Hb76cJiqKXXWyS8GEHgTD2a8Ntc/6wiyPeFNdq0SjDs+fP0HJoyaomXnFqiNWvjdcKyR 5IrfWbGdpdZRYN++p+7MwUdCu41k59BMVYN9Zgl+sKy9i0kNty/5WT0zzfAUkKMv0fA2 lXm/SSG0TQzNSumugnP9bVuH9na62G5dPJV0eYu3z4Ao3PUCrpj7aSBvEANfewLWYPa7 KG2Q== X-Received: by 10.182.28.40 with SMTP id y8mr8558614obg.57.1416757272320; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:41:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from belanger-home (184-155-90-233.cpe.cableone.net. [184.155.90.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id e16sm2866842oic.16.2014.11.23.07.41.11 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:41:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Belanger References: <87y4r26uc6.fsf@vsl28t2g.ww011> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:41:10 -0600 In-Reply-To: <87y4r26uc6.fsf@vsl28t2g.ww011> (H. Dieter Wilhelm's message of "Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:15:53 +0100") Message-ID: <87k32lkjqh.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) writes: > Drew Adams writes: > >> Please remove such silly messages, which do not tell users about a *key >> sequence* bound to the command they entered. > > Actually I find these messages very instructive for people like me, > which had no idea about this (new with Emacs-25?) abbreviation ability! Do you use the abbreviations a lot? The full M-x commands have descriptive names and are always available; the abbreviations given have neither of these qualities. Like Drew, I find the messages to be noise. Jay From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; "You can run the command `debug-on-entry' with M-x deb-o RET" In-Reply-To: Resent-From: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 15:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.14167581028634 (code B ref -1); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 15:56:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2014 15:55:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42804 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZV4-0002Ez-4W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:55:01 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53639) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZUy-0002Eo-Tl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:54:56 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZUs-0002Fb-AL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:54:52 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:54308) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZUs-0002FU-7O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:54:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55353) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZUm-0001uD-CW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:54:46 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZUg-0002Ai-Hd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:54:40 -0500 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:39122) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZUg-0002A6-BU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:54:34 -0500 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZUc-0002SU-Q0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:54:30 +0100 Received: from p57ace038.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.172.224.56]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:54:30 +0100 Received: from dieter by p57ace038.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:54:30 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ From: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:54:19 +0100 Organization: The Church of Emacs Lines: 29 Message-ID: <87lhn17w0k.fsf@vsl28t2g.ww011> References: <87y4r26uc6.fsf@vsl28t2g.ww011> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p57ace038.dip0.t-ipconnect.de User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:LDR0+Z+hNIr+VPP3rWweTTVRcT8= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) writes: > >>> (Not to mention that you didn't even put "M-x deb-o RET" between `...'.) >> >> `This could be an unmentioned improvement.' ;-) >> >>> This is not progress. Noise, not help. What were you thinking? >> >> In the contrary I appreciate such messages very much because they remind >> me to become more efficient. >> >> *But* above hint is not optimal! It should have >> been for example `M-x d-o- ' and not: M-x deb-o RET! >> ^^^^^^^^^^ > > Whether that's unique or not depends on what you have loaded. > `M-x deb-o' or `M-x d-o-' is not sufficient for me due to me loading > debbugs-gnu and stuff. Yes you are right! After debbugs-gnu.. one needs to type `M-x d-on-' as a shortcut for debugs-on-entry to be unambiguous ;-) Dieter -- Best wishes H. Dieter Wilhelm Darmstadt, Germany From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; "You can run the command `debug-on-entry' with M-x deb-o RET" In-Reply-To: Resent-From: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.141675930615573 (code B ref -1); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:16:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2014 16:15:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42823 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZoX-000437-TU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:15:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57972) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZoV-00042y-9F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:15:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZoP-0003Pd-Ox for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:15:03 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:52572) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZoP-0003PY-M0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:14:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59663) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZoK-0000WD-HA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:14:57 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZoF-0003M8-Ch for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:14:52 -0500 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:39916) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZoF-0003M0-5e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:14:47 -0500 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZoD-00072f-Fo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 17:14:45 +0100 Received: from p57ace038.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.172.224.56]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 17:14:45 +0100 Received: from dieter by p57ace038.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 17:14:45 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ From: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 17:14:28 +0100 Organization: The Church of Emacs Lines: 43 Message-ID: <87fvd97v2z.fsf@vsl28t2g.ww011> References: <87y4r26uc6.fsf@vsl28t2g.ww011> <87k32lkjqh.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p57ace038.dip0.t-ipconnect.de User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:uHGMR52AXczH7tJjst2vUROM8TY= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) Hi Jay, Jay Belanger writes: > dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) writes: >> Drew Adams writes: >> >>> Please remove such silly messages, which do not tell users about a *key >>> sequence* bound to the command they entered. >> >> Actually I find these messages very instructive for people like me, >> which had no idea about this (new with Emacs-25?) abbreviation ability! > > Do you use the abbreviations a lot? I used them not yet so often but since I'm using more and more commands without key-bindings (which is painful when you already know which command you want) I'm going to use them for - debug-on-entry (d-on-) - debbugs-gnu-bugs (d-g-b) - re-builder (re-b) - eval-buffer (e-bu) - log-edit-insert-changelog (l-e-i-c) > The full M-x commands have descriptive names and are always available; > the abbreviations given have neither of these qualities. But the descriptive names remain available, it's just when you know what you want you are empowered to type it faster, aren't you? Hmm, I should have reported that I'm using icomplete-mode, of course, this mode feels so natural that I'm already took it for granted, sorry! With (setq icomplete-mode t) you can see both the full descriptive names and the abbreviation. Have a nice day Dieter -- Best wishes H. Dieter Wilhelm Darmstadt, Germany From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; "You can run the command `debug-on-entry' with M-x deb-o RET" Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:17:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de, 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.141675938115700 (code B ref 19152); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:17:01 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2014 16:16:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42827 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZpk-000457-IE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:16:21 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:28177) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsZpi-00044z-Ou for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:16:19 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sANGGHpi017014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:16:18 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sANGGG45000248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:16:16 GMT Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sANGGF2N026087; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:16:16 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2fcbcddc-6db0-4477-a1cc-cdd7df330d2c@default> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 08:16:17 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87y4r26uc6.fsf@vsl28t2g.ww011> In-Reply-To: <87y4r26uc6.fsf@vsl28t2g.ww011> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > Actually I find these messages very instructive for people like me, > which had no idea about this (new with Emacs-25?) abbreviation > ability! Then turn them for your own use. And no, it is not new with Emacs 25. And even if there were some new completion matching method, that is not a reason to bother users by drawing their attention to it for their `M-x' use. Let people learn normally. You "had no idea about this". Fine. RTFM. Read NEWS. Explore Emacs - there are a thousand ways to learn how to use it. Some developer's new discovery (even of something that is not new) might be a shiny new toy to that developer, but that is not a reason to send up fireworks to advertise its existence. > > This is not progress. Noise, not help. What were you thinking? >=20 > In the contrary I appreciate such messages very much because they > remind me to become more efficient. Again, for your own use, please. > *But* above hint is not optimal! It should have > been for example `M-x d-o- ' and not: M-x deb-o RET! Not necessarily. Depends on the current values of `completion-styles' and `completion-category-overrides'. Does your messaging take those into account? Are we going to be analyzing possible completions for the current command now, in order to give users a reasonable and context-sensitive such "help" message? The right thing is to drop this. Let users learn about the standard (and any nonstandard but possibly current) ways that command names (and other names) can be abbreviated. There will always be some users (typically newbies, but we are all newbies for some parts of Emacs) who find such a message helpful, because they haven't read the doc yet or otherwise learned about this or that UI feature. That's not a reason to turn this crap on by default. Control it by `novice.el', if you like, or add a user option (off by default) `for novice-ui-help'. > So bug#19152 is for real, since the hints are not yet conforming to > key binding conventions and might return an ambiguous and not optimal > (regarding to speed) key sequence. One person's optimal is another person's bother. There are many ways to match a name. Some might be more optimal for some users in some contexts than others. But there is nothing gained by trying to find "the optimal" one ("regarding to speed" or any other quality). It is a matter of a user's key bindings, keyboard layout, personal preferences, etc. Not to mention that some (especially newbie?) users will take such a message as an admonition that they are doing something wrong, and that they should or must mend their ways to do things the indicated "right way". YAGNI. This is not a good idea; sorry. Please remove it, at at least as default behavior. A reminder that a command is bound to a key is a reasonable feature. And even for that we have a user option (`suggest-key-bindings'). If you want to add another user option for this noise, I have no objection, as long as this behavior is off by default. Just one opinion, of course. From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; "You can run the command `debug-on-entry' with M-x deb-o RET" References: Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 18:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de (H. Dieter Wilhelm) Cc: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14167688867825 (code B ref 19152); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 18:55:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2014 18:54:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42955 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XscJ4-000229-3I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:54:46 -0500 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:14195 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XscJ1-00021w-5z for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:54:44 -0500 Received: (qmail 32705 invoked by uid 3782); 23 Nov 2014 18:54:41 -0000 Date: 23 Nov 2014 18:54:41 -0000 Message-ID: <20141123185441.32704.qmail@mail.muc.de> From: Alan Mackenzie Organization: muc.de e.V. In-Reply-To: X-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.bug User-Agent: tin/2.2.0-20131224 ("Lochindaal") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/8.4-RELEASE (amd64)) X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) In article you wrote: > Drew Adams writes: >> Please remove such silly messages, which do not tell users about a *key >> sequence* bound to the command they entered. +1 > Actually I find these messages very instructive for people like me, > which had no idea about this (new with Emacs-25?) abbreviation ability! Which is of questionable value and questionable safety. Read the anecdote in entry "DWIM" of the New Hacker's Dictionary (about somebody having his command "delete *$" helpfully interpreted as "delete *") to see why. This feature is even present in Emacs 24.3. I'm now going to find out how to turn it off, once and for all. > Dieter > -- > Best wishes > H. Dieter Wilhelm > Darmstadt, Germany -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; "You can run the command `debug-on-entry' with M-x deb-o RET" Resent-From: Ivan Shmakov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 19:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14167691878330 (code B ref 19152); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 19:00:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2014 18:59:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42968 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XscNv-0002AI-HF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:59:47 -0500 Received: from fely.am-1.org ([78.47.74.50]:42039) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XscNt-0002A9-D9 for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:59:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=siamics.net; s=a2013295; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:Sender:References:Subject:To:From; bh=pK9dwm0pF70KWZrFIAf0tmXIHRF/53oErl+Ax0v653c=; b=FnvUkvYhYtxRqJryfKyzgPvDYYKFi6aG9YxqTdS1FigjnrKMgdr4PXe58TPmHIcGxDSEPZH3OGqMlGjXJUfkI/FFthDYP0YxVRDTwANUPd1gjXWMH9yHXJwVL7aRecQ8yEm9Ftnxs/VBbGfB1GCw7zZ6xLbYWm+vCmzQgR+z910=; Received: from [2a02:2560:6d4:26ca::1:1d] (helo=violet.siamics.net) by fely.am-1.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XscNs-0000H3-BT for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 18:59:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=violet.siamics.net) by violet.siamics.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XscNl-0005W1-Cb for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 01:59:37 +0700 From: Ivan Shmakov References: <20141123185441.32704.qmail@mail.muc.de> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 18:59:36 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20141123185441.32704.qmail@mail.muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "23 Nov 2014 18:54:41 -0000") Message-ID: <87oarxu4iv.fsf@violet.siamics.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) >>>>> Alan Mackenzie writes: [=E2=80=A6] >> Actually I find these messages very instructive for people like me, >> which had no idea about this (new with Emacs-25?) abbreviation >> ability! > Which is of questionable value and questionable safety. Read the > anecdote in entry "DWIM" of the New Hacker's Dictionary (about > somebody having his command "delete *$" helpfully interpreted as > "delete *") to see why. Do you have any specific scenario in mind where this =E2=80=98-=E2=80=99-completion may be harmful? I=E2=80=99m occasionally u= sing it for I guess around a year or so and never had an issue. > This feature is even present in Emacs 24.3. I'm now going to find > out how to turn it off, once and for all. --=20 FSF associate member #7257 http://boycottsystemd.org/ =E2=80=A6 3013 B6A0= 230E 334A From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: bug#19013: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 04:12:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ivan Shmakov Cc: 19152-submitter@debbugs.gnu.org, 19013@debbugs.gnu.org, 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14168022884603 (code B ref 19152); Mon, 24 Nov 2014 04:12:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Nov 2014 04:11:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43104 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xskzn-0001CA-Uh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:11:28 -0500 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:60555) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xskzm-0001Bw-Cy; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:11:26 -0500 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id sAO4BM5i009115; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:11:23 -0500 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id AC3FEAE0A5; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:11:22 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:11:22 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> (Ivan Shmakov's message of "Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:50:45 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5134=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5134> : inlines <1555> : streams <1347317> : uri <1835821> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) >> M-x beginning-of-visual-line RET; then, after some time, =E2=80=93 M-x <= up> >> RET =E2=80=93 the same message gets shown, even though M-x is for s= ure >> shorter than M-x b-v. Sounds like a plain bug. >> I believe there should be a variable to customize this behavior >> (say, suggest-shorter-command-limit; defaulting to 5, but with nil as >> an option to disable such suggestions altogether.) As a workaround, >> I=E2=80=99ve simply disabled it entirely (see the patch MIMEd.) I don't think that's needed. Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Ivan Shmakov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19013@debbugs.gnu.org, 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.141681252923860 (code B ref 19152); Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:03:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Nov 2014 07:02:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43163 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xsney-0006Cj-PM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 02:02:09 -0500 Received: from fely.am-1.org ([78.47.74.50]:42110) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xsnew-0006CT-05; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 02:02:06 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=siamics.net; s=a2013295; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:Sender:References:Subject:To:From; bh=7m28wptdWAgJyeCIfLHG0aRGTyQaELE2JnJ74RiqJIA=; b=FFvOH/xit3oBbQ68JFdkX8Th/fo0BjqcifY9xAMpUKtZ+HjD6yCcY2yGA0Fmfy5T68vom0z58tSI2DSddjR2w/Z9oPdBasVV6mxso+T8SxtGYjyJLdk4RaBYqSENS0lnri0SsgfPdSN5Ie0Eq/PRZA9qqkob88l2dJHzj58ajXU=; Received: from [2a02:2560:6d4:26ca::1:1d] (helo=violet.siamics.net) by fely.am-1.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xsneu-0005Uk-4h; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:02:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=violet.siamics.net) by violet.siamics.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xsnen-0006kj-3B; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:01:57 +0700 From: Ivan Shmakov References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> Mail-Followup-To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:01:56 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:11:22 -0500") Message-ID: <87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) >>>>> Stefan Monnier writes: >> M-x beginning-of-visual-line RET; then, after some time, =E2=80=93 M-x = >> RET =E2=80=93 the same message gets shown, even though M-x is for = sure >> shorter than M-x b-v. > Sounds like a plain bug. One more reason for the new features to provide a way for the user to opt out, =E2=80=93 just in case they turn to be buggy. Frankly, I do not consider this feature helpful, and have no intent on fixing this particular issue in its implementation. If anything, I=E2=80=99d just live with the workaround I=E2=80=99ve provid= ed earlier [1]. [1] http://debbugs.gnu.org/19013#msg30 >> I believe there should be a variable to customize this behavior >> (say, suggest-shorter-command-limit; defaulting to 5, but with nil >> as an option to disable such suggestions altogether.) As a >> workaround, I=E2=80=99ve simply disabled it entirely (see the patch MIM= Ed.) > I don't think that's needed. The mere fact that bug#19152 was filed suggests otherwise. --=20 FSF associate member #7257 http://boycottsystemd.org/ =E2=80=A6 3013 B6A0= 230E 334A From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: bug#19013: bug#19152: bug#19013: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:13:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org, ivan@siamics.net Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.141683472928510 (code B ref 19152); Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:13:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Nov 2014 13:12:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43315 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XstR3-0007Pk-FY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:12:09 -0500 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:56504) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XstR0-0007PV-DN for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:12:07 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NFJ00G00OMWCX00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:04 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NFJ00G0FOO3E200@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:04 +0200 (IST) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:14 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83d28crbdd.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:11:22 -0500 > Cc: 19152-submitter@debbugs.gnu.org, 19013@debbugs.gnu.org, > 19152@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> I believe there should be a variable to customize this behavior > >> (say, suggest-shorter-command-limit; defaulting to 5, but with nil as > >> an option to disable such suggestions altogether.) As a workaround, > >> I’ve simply disabled it entirely (see the patch MIMEd.) > > I don't think that's needed. I disagree. This is new behavior different from previous one, and it's clearly at least a little bit controversial. So I think we should have an option to turn it off and get back the old behavior. Something like what Ivan proposed, with minor changes, would be good, IMO. From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: bug#19013: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:58:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14168410366659 (code B ref 19152); Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:58:01 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Nov 2014 14:57:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44003 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xsv4l-0001jL-Vy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:57:16 -0500 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:47765) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xsv4i-0001jF-Em for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:57:12 -0500 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id sAOEvBPE025514; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:57:11 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 1468262B9; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:57:11 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:57:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> (Ivan Shmakov's message of "Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:01:56 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5135=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5135> : inlines <1556> : streams <1347894> : uri <1835961> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) > One more reason for the new features to provide a way for the > user to opt out, =E2=80=93 just in case they turn to be buggy. Options to circumvent bugs are a bad idea, in general (with exceptions, of course, like everything, such as when the bug is particularly hard to fix, or occurs in some code we can't control). >>> I believe there should be a variable to customize this behavior >>> (say, suggest-shorter-command-limit; defaulting to 5, but with nil >>> as an option to disable such suggestions altogether.) As a >>> workaround, I=E2=80=99ve simply disabled it entirely (see the patch MIM= Ed.) >> I don't think that's needed. > The mere fact that bug#19152 was filed suggests otherwise. An option to turn the feature off is fine. An option to choose the number of chars we have to gain is not. Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Ivan Shmakov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:11:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14169066489401 (code B ref 19152); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:11:03 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2014 09:10:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44559 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtC91-0002RW-Vu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 04:10:48 -0500 Received: from fely.am-1.org ([78.47.74.50]:42283) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtC8z-0002R4-CC for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 04:10:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=siamics.net; s=a2013295; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:Sender:References:Subject:To:From; bh=Q3IPGIx3hSvZObJkBFqWTAJLJoLCSb48OkdQB5bkEQM=; b=f1ZF0OGFg2Z/hIZIXBGQUg/SmQxewMVtJfuQE2OyDDz0iq1rqdM9rZ9LVEzAyjG/UqHNgzch8JpeqrN9134oVaTsIVRy/LV6QsxD2LS22ghGM28UyQfFEiJabO0/mPEMlCaciS0/7d1LgS52hrL+e8Z/k6BhzsSV7e577krP8Ec=; Received: from [2a02:2560:6d4:26ca::1:1d] (helo=violet.siamics.net) by fely.am-1.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtC8t-00017f-KO for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:10:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=violet.siamics.net) by violet.siamics.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtC7q-00013f-IW for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 16:09:34 +0700 From: Ivan Shmakov References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> Mail-Followup-To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:09:33 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:57:11 -0500") Message-ID: <87lhmzsl2q.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) >>>>> Stefan Monnier writes: >> One more reason for the new features to provide a way for the user >> to opt out, =E2=80=93 just in case they turn to be buggy. > Options to circumvent bugs are a bad idea, in general (with > exceptions, of course, like everything, such as when the bug is > particularly hard to fix, or occurs in some code we can't control). Analogously speaking, isn=E2=80=99t --without-x-toolkit just an option to circumvent Gtk-related bugs? >>>> I believe there should be a variable to customize this behavior >>>> (say, suggest-shorter-command-limit; defaulting to 5, but with nil >>>> as an option to disable such suggestions altogether.) As a >>>> workaround, I=E2=80=99ve simply disabled it entirely (see the patch >>>> MIMEd.) >>> I don't think that's needed. >> The mere fact that bug#19152 was filed suggests otherwise. > An option to turn the feature off is fine. An option to choose the > number of chars we have to gain is not. Why not? Diff-wise, the difference is two lines only: one in defcustom, to allow for an integer value for the option; the other in execute-extended-command--shorter, to replace the currently magic 5. That said, I=E2=80=99m fine with doing it either way. --=20 FSF associate member #7257 http://boycottsystemd.org/ =E2=80=A6 3013 B6A0= 230E 334A From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.141692703021026 (code B ref 19152); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:51:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2014 14:50:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44702 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtHRl-0005T4-NN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:50:30 -0500 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:44530) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtHRj-0005Sv-0R for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:50:27 -0500 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id sAPEoPbW030769; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:50:25 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 3EF42653E; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:50:25 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87lhmzsl2q.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:50:25 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87lhmzsl2q.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> (Ivan Shmakov's message of "Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:09:33 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5136=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5136> : inlines <1557> : streams <1348440> : uri <1836091> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) >> Options to circumvent bugs are a bad idea, in general (with >> exceptions, of course, like everything, such as when the bug is >> particularly hard to fix, or occurs in some code we can't control). > Analogously speaking, isn=E2=80=99t --without-x-toolkit just an option > to circumvent Gtk-related bugs? If it is, then it's OK because those bugs "occur in some code we can't cont= rol". >> An option to turn the feature off is fine. An option to choose the >> number of chars we have to gain is not. > Why not? Because that exposes too much irrelevant details. BTW, if you want to "turn it off" and can't wait for someone to install such an option in the trunk, you can try: (advice-add 'execute-extended-command--shorter :override #'ignore) -- Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Ivan Shmakov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:46:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.141693033127065 (code B ref 19152); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:46:01 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2014 15:45:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45107 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtIJ0-00072S-Q9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:45:31 -0500 Received: from fely.am-1.org ([78.47.74.50]:42325) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtIIx-00072I-UW for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:45:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=siamics.net; s=a2013295; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:Sender:References:Subject:To:From; bh=Akhm5pw48MXjiYknrW3YdT3Cg3y5OwJb0SBT4R47Rj4=; b=FM7kYcCgv90lu5nlu3tvpY8Daa2U6GogRqpK3S1K4w8MnMr8419g7ykvY+niEOCXf+kZE4IjbHXBAZDRi3cMk9cp0nbq3rlpHjLysLF2hRuJFiyYw541PiLcJcIeVqIHLav3HK6zftJo84padSuu/n0ZpMYOm5rXHPe0MJQQOpk=; Received: from [2a02:2560:6d4:26ca::1:1d] (helo=violet.siamics.net) by fely.am-1.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtIIw-0004LF-27 for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:45:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=violet.siamics.net) by violet.siamics.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtIIo-0001iV-Ud for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:45:19 +0700 From: Ivan Shmakov References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87lhmzsl2q.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> Mail-Followup-To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:45:18 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:50:25 -0500") Message-ID: <8761e3s2r5.fsf@violet.siamics.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) >>>>> Stefan Monnier writes: [=E2=80=A6] >>> An option to turn the feature off is fine. An option to choose the >>> number of chars we have to gain is not. >> Why not? > Because that exposes too much irrelevant details. I see no big difference between suggest-key-bindings=E2=80=99 seconds and the suggested suggest-shorter-command-limit=E2=80=99s characters. > BTW, if you want to "turn it off" and can't wait for someone to > install such an option in the trunk, you can try: > (advice-add 'execute-extended-command--shorter :override #'ignore) Well, to quote myself [2]: > If anything, I=E2=80=99d just live with the workaround I=E2=80=99ve prov= ided earlier > [1]. > [1] http://debbugs.gnu.org/19013#msg30 [2] news:87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net --=20 FSF associate member #7257 http://boycottsystemd.org/ =E2=80=A6 3013 B6A0= 230E 334A From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 16:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ivan Shmakov Cc: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14169342851465 (code B ref 19152); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 16:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2014 16:51:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45158 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtJKm-0000NY-Sm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 11:51:25 -0500 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:57134) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtJKi-0000NH-NX for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 11:51:24 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NFL00900TE0Z600@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:51:19 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NFL009U2THIMQ40@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:51:19 +0200 (IST) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:51:32 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <8761e3s2r5.fsf@violet.siamics.net> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83ioi3p6jv.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87lhmzsl2q.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <8761e3s2r5.fsf@violet.siamics.net> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Ivan Shmakov > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:45:18 +0000 > > >>>>> Stefan Monnier writes: > > […] > > >>> An option to turn the feature off is fine. An option to choose the > >>> number of chars we have to gain is not. > > >> Why not? > > > Because that exposes too much irrelevant details. > > I see no big difference between suggest-key-bindings’ seconds > and the suggested suggest-shorter-command-limit’s characters. Would you please rework your patch to make the option a simple predicate that turns this feature on and off, and call it some name that begins with extended-command? I think there's a consensus that such an option is OK. Thanks. From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:39:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14169371286896 (code B ref 19152); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:39:03 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2014 17:38:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45200 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtK4e-0001n8-2x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 12:38:48 -0500 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:47099) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtK4a-0001mk-5P for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 12:38:44 -0500 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id sAPHcgiK007257; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 12:38:42 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 8BD06653E; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 12:38:42 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87lhmzsl2q.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <8761e3s2r5.fsf@violet.siamics.net> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 12:38:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: <8761e3s2r5.fsf@violet.siamics.net> (Ivan Shmakov's message of "Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:45:18 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV5136=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5136> : inlines <1558> : streams <1348504> : uri <1836106> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) > I see no big difference between suggest-key-bindings=E2=80=99 seconds > and the suggested suggest-shorter-command-limit=E2=80=99s characters. I don't either, except that one exists already, so it's more trouble to remove it. Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Ivan Shmakov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:11:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.141693905310479 (code B ref 19152); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:11:01 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2014 18:10:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45214 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtKZg-0002ix-Qr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:10:53 -0500 Received: from fely.am-1.org ([78.47.74.50]:42343) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtKZe-0002ik-Pe for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:10:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=siamics.net; s=a2013295; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:Sender:References:Subject:To:From; bh=9cL7JaYztap69kmAqEHqe8ruB5TJm77FV5t2gl+RaG0=; b=NUq9hlprtB3Fhwwvx7jbAUDAFCw/2Luyj8PshtliSIwvzJ9w74sS8T5crbAdjqf7LIyxfsTbio/lmQ0BhNb5d3VdDzgqhFiFUpgrMVD4skumlwzcklY3XxinJTxZ2ZYJ1RHNvBYI/wlen/Y2q6QSI/31gKjMB7nPMPolRb6lLjM=; Received: from [2a02:2560:6d4:26ca::1:1d] (helo=violet.siamics.net) by fely.am-1.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtKZb-0005Lz-Lq for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:10:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=violet.siamics.net) by violet.siamics.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtKZU-0001vu-Mi for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:10:40 +0700 From: Ivan Shmakov References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87lhmzsl2q.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <8761e3s2r5.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <83ioi3p6jv.fsf@gnu.org> Mail-Followup-To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:10:40 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83ioi3p6jv.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:51:32 +0200") Message-ID: <87tx1nqhgf.fsf@violet.siamics.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: >>>>> From: Ivan Shmakov Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:45:18 +0000 >>>>> Stefan Monnier writes: >>>>> An option to turn the feature off is fine. An option to choose >>>>> the number of chars we have to gain is not. >>>> Why not? >>> Because that exposes too much irrelevant details. >> I see no big difference between suggest-key-bindings=E2=80=99 seconds a= nd >> the suggested suggest-shorter-command-limit=E2=80=99s characters. > Would you please rework your patch to make the option a simple > predicate that turns this feature on and off, Sure=E2=80=A6 > and call it some name that begins with extended-command? =E2=80=A6 Even though that=E2=80=99s inconsistent with the name of the exi= sting suggest-key-bindings option?=E2=80=A6 > I think there's a consensus that such an option is OK. > Thanks. =E2=80=A6 Please consider the patch MIMEd. --=20 FSF associate member #7257 http://boycottsystemd.org/ =E2=80=A6 3013 B6A0= 230E 334A --=-=-= Content-Type: text/diff Content-Disposition: inline --- a/lisp/simple.el 2014-11-21 09:21:50 +0000 +++ b/lisp/simple.el @@ -1598,6 +1598,11 @@ (integer :tag "time" 2) (other :tag "on"))) +(defcustom extended-command-suggest-shorter t + "Non-nil means show a shorter M-x invocation when there is one." + :group 'keyboard + :type 'boolean) + (defun execute-extended-command--shorter-1 (name length) (cond ((zerop length) (list "")) @@ -1680,7 +1685,8 @@ defun execute-extended-command (prefixarg &optional command-name typed) ((numberp suggest-key-bindings) suggest-key-bindings) (t 2))))) (when (and waited (not (consp unread-command-events))) - (unless (or binding executing-kbd-macro (not (symbolp function)) + (unless (or (not extended-command-suggest-shorter) + binding executing-kbd-macro (not (symbolp function)) (<= (length (symbol-name function)) 2)) ;; There's no binding for CMD. Let's try and find the shortest ;; string to use in M-x. --=-=-=-- From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 02:23:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14169685331971 (code B ref 19152); Wed, 26 Nov 2014 02:23:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Nov 2014 02:22:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45388 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtSFA-0000Vj-SH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:22:13 -0500 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:50186) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtSF8-0000Va-6n for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:22:10 -0500 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id sAQ2M9Ap003914; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:22:09 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id E5B28653E; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:22:08 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87lhmzsl2q.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <8761e3s2r5.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <83ioi3p6jv.fsf@gnu.org> <87tx1nqhgf.fsf@violet.siamics.net> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:22:08 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87tx1nqhgf.fsf@violet.siamics.net> (Ivan Shmakov's message of "Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:10:40 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV5136=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5136> : inlines <1561> : streams <1348703> : uri <1836154> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) > =E2=80=A6 Please consider the patch MIMEd. Looks fine, feel free to install it, Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.503) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Drew Adams Subject: bug#19152: closed (Re: bug#19152: bug#19013: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands) Message-ID: References: X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 19152 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 23:16:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1417216562-2781-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1417216562-2781-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #19152: 25.0.50; "You can run the command `debug-on-entry' with M-x deb-o R= ET" which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 19152@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 19152: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D19152 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1417216562-2781-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 19152-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Nov 2014 23:15:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48725 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XuUky-0000hT-0f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 18:15:20 -0500 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:53867) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XuUkw-0000hL-2k for 19152-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 18:15:18 -0500 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id sASNFDZZ009041; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 18:15:14 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id C24523EB6; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 18:15:13 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Ivan Shmakov Subject: Re: bug#19152: bug#19013: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Message-ID: References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 18:15:13 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:11:22 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5139=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5139> : inlines <1569> : streams <1350042> : uri <1836528> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19152-done Cc: 19152-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) >>> M-x beginning-of-visual-line RET; then, after some time, =E2=80=93 M-x = >>> RET =E2=80=93 the same message gets shown, even though M-x is for = sure >>> shorter than M-x b-v. > Sounds like a plain bug. Should be fixed now, Stefan ------------=_1417216562-2781-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2014 03:15:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42122 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNde-0005kl-W2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:15:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51455) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNdb-0005kD-Nz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:15:00 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNdR-0003dW-7g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:14:59 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:51019) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNdR-0003dS-4s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:14:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53162) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNdI-0003Qw-B2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:14:49 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNd9-0003c9-Fz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:14:40 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:24929) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XsNd9-0003bY-9h for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:14:31 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sAN3EOuA002469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 03:14:24 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sAN3EMgF023622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 03:14:23 GMT Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sAN3ELu7008292 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 03:14:22 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 19:14:23 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.0.50; "You can run the command `debug-on-entry' with M-x deb-o RET" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Please remove such silly messages, which do not tell users about a *key sequence* bound to the command they entered. (Not to mention that you didn't even put "M-x deb-o RET" between `...'.) This is not progress. Noise, not help. What were you thinking? In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-10-20 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 118168 rgm@gnu.org-20141020195941-icp42t8ttcnud09g Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CPPFLAGS=3D-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1' ------------=_1417216562-2781-1-- From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Ivan Shmakov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14175152676893 (code B ref 19152); Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:15:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Dec 2014 10:14:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51416 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XvkTT-0001n6-8S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Dec 2014 05:14:27 -0500 Received: from fely.am-1.org ([78.47.74.50]:43173) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XvkTQ-0001my-Tn for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Dec 2014 05:14:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=siamics.net; s=a2013295; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:Sender:References:Subject:To:From; bh=x60EhSuyrRj8qNVEkT2/nRw6eNjFJaTE4Qs44CHchys=; b=FzMEgBBEEtiRl0yCC8srmPB3Ek6krphEClHMJErGj1cOSdV3B6jnw4l05M1NuPd37Hw05Q8RQ1EgHF7S+i8PlQoKxRNWT3dKZ5ZTpsxonCcxoW+NHIzMIcGpZAIpkWYkRfJgwuhmyZnAvVis/GKyj//euXQ43jP9+PDOj9RUd0M=; Received: from [2a02:2560:6d4:26ca::1:1d] (helo=violet.siamics.net) by fely.am-1.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XvkTP-0004ok-RJ for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:14:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=violet.siamics.net) by violet.siamics.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XvkTH-0005u4-RW for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Dec 2014 17:14:16 +0700 From: Ivan Shmakov References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> Mail-Followup-To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:14:14 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 28 Nov 2014 18:15:13 -0500") Message-ID: <877fyaqryh.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) >>>>> "SM" =3D=3D Stefan Monnier writes: >>>>> "IS" =3D=3D Ivan Shmakov writes: >>>>> "DA" =3D=3D Drew Adams writes: IS> M-x beginning-of-visual-line RET; then, after some time, =E2=80=93 M-x= IS> RET =E2=80=93 the same message gets shown, even though M-x is for= sure IS> shorter than M-x b-v. SM> Sounds like a plain bug. SM> Should be fixed now, Well, ac4532a23265 (2014-11-28 23:14:38Z) indeed fixes the issue above, but not quite #19152 as initially reported (below), which still needs something like the change I=E2=80=99ve previously suggested [1]. DA> Please remove such silly messages, which do not tell users about a DA> *key sequence* bound to the command they entered. My apologies for contributing to the confusion. [1] http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D19152#msg68 news:87tx1nqhgf.fsf@violet.siamics.net --=20 FSF associate member #7257 http://boycottsystemd.org/ =E2=80=A6 3013 B6A0= 230E 334A From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:58:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14175286828776 (code B ref 19152); Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:58:03 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Dec 2014 13:58:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51515 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xvnxp-0002HQ-M3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Dec 2014 08:58:02 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:3090) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xvnxl-0002HH-7V for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Dec 2014 08:57:57 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: As8IAGA2ZVRMCqTq/2dsb2JhbABbgw6EM4Yvx3KDGgQCAoEcFwEBAQEBAXyEAwEBAwEjMygLCxoCGA4CAhQYDYhvCbpdlicBCyCBLYwrg0MWgmGBVAWMC6cXgXaEGh+CewEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: As8IAGA2ZVRMCqTq/2dsb2JhbABbgw6EM4Yvx3KDGgQCAoEcFwEBAQEBAXyEAwEBAwEjMygLCxoCGA4CAhQYDYhvCbpdlicBCyCBLYwrg0MWgmGBVAWMC6cXgXaEGh+CewEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,380,1413259200"; d="scan'208";a="99354580" Received: from 76-10-164-234.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.164.234]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 02 Dec 2014 08:57:55 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 7E77543C3; Tue, 2 Dec 2014 08:57:55 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <877fyaqryh.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 08:57:55 -0500 In-Reply-To: <877fyaqryh.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> (Ivan Shmakov's message of "Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:14:14 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > Well, ac4532a23265 (2014-11-28 23:14:38Z) indeed fixes the issue > above, but not quite #19152 as initially reported (below), which > still needs something like the change I=E2=80=99ve previously suggested > [1]. Indeed, this patch hasn't been installed yet. Could someone take care of it? Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Brendan O'Dea Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2016 16:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.14575408096241 (code B ref 19152); Wed, 09 Mar 2016 16:27:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Mar 2016 16:26:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41716 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1adgwj-0001cb-Hi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 11:26:49 -0500 Received: from mail-pf0-f178.google.com ([209.85.192.178]:36474) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1adcQW-0001KR-Mx for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 06:37:17 -0500 Received: by mail-pf0-f178.google.com with SMTP id u190so9064991pfb.3 for <19152@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 03:37:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=c47-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=WjwbDf1LGoN/Rmsogbgmf7tch134hEDa2jP4EcLzjQk=; b=kquUECq6tAFRO2zkTWBTS2L1GMSe71w22xXO5vc29gmnZe0aWfJS004mY0pH016Vt+ tmF6Da/k/y14nh/nqe00hW+NPnlsRlI0MpB7SDxXCokmMmXWf38UeRk1HBE5NqTj0Vnh HXq7GYL0fU7Sh0U1ttur+c9sHIs+1DB42ILS+Gj9qK4z6lFKr6hDsuk+jpTjbK1UcUNV SNTxxW3AuNsDLwFVxpHkSLZx2tNP2VBKfuaWvL9vnZNZGkChgTUHSfRQ9DXgSsa4ighn D1Qvs3qUq5FhGxT9vW8EwnLKO7KuKHE5pQjrNkM5ahYBDzDxVZTyrETiUAZZGTq63KUY UECA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=WjwbDf1LGoN/Rmsogbgmf7tch134hEDa2jP4EcLzjQk=; b=gK1Ps0JoyXiD8nJkDR2AdK6W+fmPqjlnGOT+vKBidLX7FdGzR+cIn/KeH3oysXADoK +D8VpCX03g6itliZhSxs9RGQW/HFnyIncvrASYIVcrzbA3CFD1y0fa384G7Ar6J7N3Xn NYoxLwBzyZ18z/ukZWn9/Yoej51g97S9GLNJdesIGZzFlH91auR19OCeJ4vTHpVHv2aZ /BzBmfTT36iZSzJnnpZLRQ5Ng+bgIz7vXUvWrS/yHgSJ9JnE9s3OAwUFZTnkUjEpo44k RO2S7mWZ2DaALUe5hYeqCE3phUVDmF/yeKrUMVITTErjZ5w+Mup/BS4PTKEAm/JUG5xj yrIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJKl9NParRNzSPbiKkFUn/xnSG4Eb9kz+CsyFqZ4KeN/UNU2ifQ4i3iXXOFBmqULLA== X-Received: by 10.98.9.219 with SMTP id 88mr50401753pfj.0.1457523430905; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 03:37:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecopc.c47.org (c211-30-199-232.artrmn3.nsw.optusnet.com.au. [211.30.199.232]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k65sm11835621pfb.30.2016.03.09.03.37.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Mar 2016 03:37:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 22:37:04 +1100 From: Brendan O'Dea Message-ID: <20160309113704.GA2217@ecopc.c47.org> References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <877fyaqryh.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 09 Mar 2016 11:26:48 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Tue, Dec 02, 2014 at 08:57:55AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> Well, ac4532a23265 (2014-11-28 23:14:38Z) indeed fixes the issue >> above, but not quite #19152 as initially reported (below), which >> still needs something like the change I’ve previously suggested >> [1]. > >Indeed, this patch hasn't been installed yet. Could someone take care >of it? The suggested change[1] still doesn't appear to have been applied. I can advise the function out of existance as per [2], but a configuration option would ssem to be preferable. What needs to be done to get that patch applied? [1] http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=19152#68 [2] http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=19152#56 --bod From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#19152: 25.0.50; Suggestions for M-x commands Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:23:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19152 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 19152@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov Received: via spool by 19152-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19152.146202977613690 (code B ref 19152); Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:23:02 +0000 Received: (at 19152) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 15:22:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57927 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awWjP-0003Yk-VJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:22:56 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:57620) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awWjO-0003Yc-HP for 19152@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:22:55 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awWjK-0003ez-FV; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 17:22:52 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87y4r77jbn.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87lhn2uodm.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <87vbm5rsij.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <87lhmzsl2q.fsf_-_@violet.siamics.net> <8761e3s2r5.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <83ioi3p6jv.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 17:22:50 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83ioi3p6jv.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:51:32 +0200") Message-ID: <87bn4rnmt1.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Ivan Shmakov >> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:45:18 +0000 >>=20 >> >>>>> Stefan Monnier writes: >>=20 >> [=85] >>=20 >> >>> An option to turn the feature off is fine. An option to choose the >> >>> number of chars we have to gain is not. >>=20 >> >> Why not? >>=20 >> > Because that exposes too much irrelevant details. >>=20 >> I see no big difference between suggest-key-bindings=92 seconds >> and the suggested suggest-shorter-command-limit=92s characters. > > Would you please rework your patch to make the option a simple > predicate that turns this feature on and off, and call it some name > that begins with extended-command? I think there's a consensus that > such an option is OK. This wasn't installed? I'll install it with some documentation. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 11:31:15 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 15:31:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57936 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awWrT-0004jI-Ld for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:31:15 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:57667) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awWrS-0004h8-Gp for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:31:15 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awWrO-0003jD-SB for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 17:31:12 +0200 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 17:31:10 +0200 Message-Id: <87a8kbnmf5.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #19152 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) tags 19152 fixed close 19152 25.2 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 03 21:49:42 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2016 02:49:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51761 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cDMs2-0004Js-AJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Dec 2016 21:49:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56131) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cDMrz-0004JW-G1 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Dec 2016 21:49:40 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cDMrs-0001yx-95 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Dec 2016 21:49:34 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53276) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cDMrs-0001yr-52 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Dec 2016 21:49:32 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cDMrr-0005b2-Kh; Sat, 03 Dec 2016 21:49:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <22595.33851.293095.70553@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2016 21:49:31 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Clean up predictable issues due to Emacs version number change X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) # Ref: # http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-11/msg00238.html # http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-09/msg00692.html # http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-01/msg01215.html # Some attempt has been made to check for things backported after the fact. # Erring on the side of a later version number seems preferable anyway. unarchive 10 fixed 10 26.1 notfixed 10 25.2 unarchive 96 fixed 96 26.1 notfixed 96 25.2 unarchive 1149 fixed 1149 26.1 notfixed 1149 25.2 unarchive 1150 fixed 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