From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 08 04:17:08 2014 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2014 09:17:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53385 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn28p-00017r-Jk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 04:17:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36534) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn28n-00017i-1s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 04:17:05 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn28f-00022k-DV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 04:17:04 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=5.0 tests=AC_HTML_NONSENSE_TAGS, BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:60142) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn28f-00022g-Av for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 04:16:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38256) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn28Z-0001S3-1i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 04:16:57 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn28S-00021i-Im for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 04:16:50 -0500 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.131]:63426) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn28S-00021W-9A for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 04:16:44 -0500 Received: from [192.168.178.32] (brln-4db93dba.pool.mediaWays.net [77.185.61.186]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreue002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LdQdm-1YVTYZ3B2I-00il7M; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 10:16:42 +0100 Message-ID: <545DDF6C.9000901@easy-emacs.de> Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 10:16:28 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcmVhcyBSw7ZobGVy?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.4; describe-mode Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:u7GuBSeS42b7K1vQPPZelaD8+LyfqgJOjWaUiCaKUP/ 9uVNbS+dDx6FsA0YkW5DCXDSA6yYz1kqaGxRmKXCziqLIo1SdW CCCrc7rWiTmpmomfzY5x/F7WdoKZwkO9huL9HrJlU926EBAb0F +AbUEFJHTpobujZ04dwJ+KMnvcyeBxcl0Uz9vujoBUb3oYym35 9PGQrY15wYEPYpT7/KGgD9hDcFzyRgYVRW+UuReG7t5owIKxHT sfFMJpVTCa+kHFcNz2FyhC973yFbMcZ34+gK7ZkcRHjD1sZ4pk nxINcKadbu06HpMVvoEGvvpQNWfNbwTNvWmYHFMDJ+JE71afK9 2ZkBPAhaSp5ZJUzJc7lrop+NlkkMIrY6sglR8r6TC X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) M-x describe-mode RET should report the major-mode. Currently it tells the value of "mode-name". Several issues with this: - Value of mode-name is displayed in current-buffers mode-line allready - mode-name often will be a quit shortened, as space in mode-line is precious - don't see a usage of mode-name beyond mode-line - user will be interested in value of major-mode, which isn't told See for example from inside a M-x shell RET M-x describe-mode says: "Shell mode" while the real major-mode is sh-mode Thanks all, Andreas Röhler In GNU Emacs 24.4.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2014-10-24 Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11204000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 7.7 (wheezy) Important settings: value of $LANG: de_DE.utf8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Shell-script Minor modes in effect: sh-electric-here-document-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t tooltip-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: C-h f d e s c r i b e - m o d e C-x o C-x 1 C-x 1 C-s m o d e - n a m e M-x s h e l l C-h v m a j p r - o r - m o C-x C-f e i n . s h C-h f C-d C-g C-h v m a j o r - m o d e s h - m o d e C-x C-w M-x d e s c r i b e - m o d e C-x o C-SPC C-e M-w C-x o M-x r e p o r t - e m a c s - b u g Recent messages: (New file) Setting up indent for shell type sh Indentation variables are now local. Indentation setup for shell type sh Quit You can run the command `describe-mode' with C-h m Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr emacsbug message format-spec rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils sh-script smie executable pp shell pcomplete comint ansi-color ring misearch multi-isearch find-func help-mode easymenu help-fns time-date tooltip electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process inotify dynamic-setting x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) Memory information: ((conses 8 122385 5181) (symbols 24 36505 0) (miscs 20 123 292) (strings 16 50339 4912) (string-bytes 1 680645) (vectors 8 11520) (vector-slots 4 437709 3282) (floats 8 67 468) (intervals 28 565 16) (buffers 512 16) (heap 1024 30852 417)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 08 09:34:17 2014 Received: (at 18992) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2014 14:34:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53460 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn75k-0001uE-7I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 09:34:16 -0500 Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.26]:52212) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn75e-0001u1-52 for 18992@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 09:34:11 -0500 Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FF5201EF for <18992@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 09:34:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 08 Nov 2014 09:34:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=x-sasl-enc:from:to:cc:subject:references :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=smtpout; bh=ltl3mX/njXL0jXtwxEPQc+ yIEXM=; b=a1MaS/wuK94AxFFnZKHmYcabGBwqg0MBFHcJ6fI4Bk+AqU8O8z2wlF e88ofjwHEQXScqhffdAnMkQ4Roel15BkrjMVlJt/KJYfVVYxQJNFnGx+0mrTGPK2 R6cN0vFlDFcqlCKF/LgWz5jAHnOn6PhnhXvq461NIxhxaj4UMwpsQ= X-Sasl-enc: sTjxuoGxebu+uEdkpw4DomTMOQYrMp3frnmuvjcz1jf6 1415457249 Received: from thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org (unknown [2.162.187.228]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id F24DC68011E; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 09:34:08 -0500 (EST) From: Tassilo Horn To: Andreas =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= Subject: Re: bug#18992: 24.4; describe-mode References: <545DDF6C.9000901@easy-emacs.de> Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 15:34:03 +0100 In-Reply-To: <545DDF6C.9000901@easy-emacs.de> ("Andreas \=\?utf-8\?Q\?R\=C3\=B6h\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?ler\=22's\?\= message of "Sat, 08 Nov 2014 10:16:28 +0100") Message-ID: <871tpdvk10.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18992 Cc: 18992@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) Andreas R=C3=B6hler writes: > M-x describe-mode RET should report the major-mode. > Currently it tells the value of "mode-name". > > Several issues with this: > > - Value of mode-name is displayed in current-buffers mode-line allready I guess the main usage of `describe-mode' is to get its documentation and key bindings. > - mode-name often will be a quit shortened, as space in mode-line is prec= ious Usually it's just the capitalized version of the major-mode function with the `-mode' stripped. And sometimes it contains more information that just the mode function, e.g., "Dired by name", "Dired by date", etc. > - don't see a usage of mode-name beyond mode-line The other important usage is printing the pretty name with describe-mode. ;-) > - user will be interested in value of major-mode, which isn't told describe-mode prints a link you can click to jump to the major-mode function. > See for example from inside a M-x shell RET > > M-x describe-mode says: "Shell mode" > while the real major-mode is sh-mode No, the real mode function is `shell-mode'. `sh-mode' is the editing mode for shell scripts, and that has mode-names like "Shell-script[zsh]" or "Shell-script[bash]" which are even more informative than just the plain mode function. Well, but of course having the mode functions printed in `describe-mode' wouldn't hurt anyway. This patch does that: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- =3D=3D=3D modified file 'lisp/help.el' --- lisp/help.el 2014-08-07 03:25:09 +0000 +++ lisp/help.el 2014-11-08 14:27:54 +0000 @@ -946,7 +946,8 @@ (let ((start (point))) (insert (format-mode-line mode nil nil buffer)) (add-text-properties start (point) '(face bold))))) - (princ " mode") + (princ " mode ") + (princ (format "(`%s')" major-mode)) (let* ((mode major-mode) (file-name (find-lisp-object-file-name mode nil))) (when file-name --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- With that, in this message buffer I get: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- Message mode (`message-mode') defined in `message.el': Major mode for editing mail and news to be sent. Like Text Mode but with these additional commands: ... --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- With the following patch, the same would be done for the active minor modes, too: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- =3D=3D=3D modified file 'lisp/help.el' --- lisp/help.el 2014-08-07 03:25:09 +0000 +++ lisp/help.el 2014-11-08 14:31:30 +0000 @@ -924,7 +924,8 @@ (push (point-marker) help-button-cache) ;; Document the minor modes fully. (insert pretty-minor-mode) - (princ (format " minor mode (%s):\n" + (princ (format " minor mode (`%s'; %s):\n" + mode-function (if (zerop (length indicator)) "no indicator" (format "indicator%s" @@ -946,7 +947,8 @@ (let ((start (point))) (insert (format-mode-line mode nil nil buffer)) (add-text-properties start (point) '(face bold))))) - (princ " mode") + (princ " mode ") + (princ (format "(`%s')" major-mode)) (let* ((mode major-mode) (file-name (find-lisp-object-file-name mode nil))) (when file-name --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- However, in contrast to major-modes, minor mode names tend to be much longer, so we can get some long lines like: Global-Edit-Server-Edit minor mode (`global-edit-server-edit-mode'; no indi= cator): Bye, Tassilo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 08 10:55:00 2014 Received: (at 18992) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2014 15:55:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53824 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn8Ls-00040h-6J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 10:55:00 -0500 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.10]:49209) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn8Ln-00040W-A6 for 18992@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 10:54:56 -0500 Received: from [192.168.178.32] (brln-4db93dba.pool.mediaWays.net [77.185.61.186]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreue101) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MhUQs-1XQdeo1jVa-00MY9E; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:54:52 +0100 Message-ID: <545E3CBE.2080001@easy-emacs.de> Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:54:38 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcmVhcyBSw7ZobGVy?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tassilo Horn Subject: Re: bug#18992: 24.4; describe-mode References: <545DDF6C.9000901@easy-emacs.de> <871tpdvk10.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> In-Reply-To: <871tpdvk10.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:lEzJMdTdWzQfUFzFoA636ktLauoe0MQDG7M7kXsc0vz q8MjxgzmI73AucxPrUpPpi7fV8opSOcgOwhFUBdJdIf1e/d4wi OhueOrc/4ARojAoYw5hSf5XSklag+2h8146C/PgQnPXy0EGkIh frsGsfxzyJuuRV4SayXjYsBKE9AizGIkBC1t276EBdHayruVUC wh2RdoBXdb/6Ebp0bTSI53qft0CfX5DIYFkhy7rXsZY6mv4sMn zEUF6AohgKAjA7MN7CNIY9TkvA62IoTuEuQob4dS+u55COiY19 255mY2BsfTGjLVU5ifdlIYfNzKlw4ZW6bLOBVGOlG3Ra5kVYx0 Duk5X767y+5b7703pCBa9xF9kg4SHJcy4uVHC418M X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18992 Cc: 18992@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On 08.11.2014 15:34, Tassilo Horn wrote: > Andreas Röhler writes: > >> M-x describe-mode RET should report the major-mode. >> Currently it tells the value of "mode-name". >> >> Several issues with this: >> >> - Value of mode-name is displayed in current-buffers mode-line allready > > I guess the main usage of `describe-mode' is to get its documentation > and key bindings. > >> - mode-name often will be a quit shortened, as space in mode-line is precious > > Usually it's just the capitalized version of the major-mode function > with the `-mode' stripped. And sometimes it contains more information > that just the mode function, e.g., "Dired by name", "Dired by date", > etc. > >> - don't see a usage of mode-name beyond mode-line > > The other important usage is printing the pretty name with > describe-mode. ;-) > >> - user will be interested in value of major-mode, which isn't told > > describe-mode prints a link you can click to jump to the major-mode > function. > >> See for example from inside a M-x shell RET >> >> M-x describe-mode says: "Shell mode" >> while the real major-mode is sh-mode > > No, the real mode function is `shell-mode'. `sh-mode' is the editing > mode for shell scripts, and that has mode-names like "Shell-script[zsh]" > or "Shell-script[bash]" which are even more informative than just the > plain mode function. > > Well, but of course having the mode functions printed in `describe-mode' > wouldn't hurt anyway. This patch does that: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > === modified file 'lisp/help.el' > --- lisp/help.el 2014-08-07 03:25:09 +0000 > +++ lisp/help.el 2014-11-08 14:27:54 +0000 > @@ -946,7 +946,8 @@ > (let ((start (point))) > (insert (format-mode-line mode nil nil buffer)) > (add-text-properties start (point) '(face bold))))) > - (princ " mode") > + (princ " mode ") > + (princ (format "(`%s')" major-mode)) > (let* ((mode major-mode) > (file-name (find-lisp-object-file-name mode nil))) > (when file-name > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > With that, in this message buffer I get: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > Message mode (`message-mode') defined in `message.el': > Major mode for editing mail and news to be sent. > Like Text Mode but with these additional commands: > ... > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > With the following patch, the same would be done for the active minor > modes, too: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > === modified file 'lisp/help.el' > --- lisp/help.el 2014-08-07 03:25:09 +0000 > +++ lisp/help.el 2014-11-08 14:31:30 +0000 > @@ -924,7 +924,8 @@ > (push (point-marker) help-button-cache) > ;; Document the minor modes fully. > (insert pretty-minor-mode) > - (princ (format " minor mode (%s):\n" > + (princ (format " minor mode (`%s'; %s):\n" > + mode-function > (if (zerop (length indicator)) > "no indicator" > (format "indicator%s" > @@ -946,7 +947,8 @@ > (let ((start (point))) > (insert (format-mode-line mode nil nil buffer)) > (add-text-properties start (point) '(face bold))))) > - (princ " mode") > + (princ " mode ") > + (princ (format "(`%s')" major-mode)) > (let* ((mode major-mode) > (file-name (find-lisp-object-file-name mode nil))) > (when file-name > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > However, in contrast to major-modes, minor mode names tend to be much > longer, so we can get some long lines like: > > Global-Edit-Server-Edit minor mode (`global-edit-server-edit-mode'; no indicator): > > Bye, > Tassilo > What about mentioning the variable at stake, i.e. "major-mode: " resp. "minor-mode: " in format-function? As said, repeating the rather arbitrary mode-line string doesn't contribute, is confusing. Thanks, Andreas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 08 10:57:45 2014 Received: (at 18992) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2014 15:57:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53831 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn8OW-00045L-SR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 10:57:45 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:23430) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn8OU-00045C-L7 for 18992@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 10:57:43 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sA8FvdxL012158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 8 Nov 2014 15:57:40 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA8FvceE001626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 8 Nov 2014 15:57:39 GMT Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sA8FvbVC001608; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 15:57:37 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <62c84c79-4884-4b65-b419-0e37f96102e1@default> Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 07:57:36 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Tassilo Horn , =?utf-8?B?QW5kcmVhcyBSw7ZobGVy?= Subject: RE: bug#18992: 24.4; describe-mode References: <545DDF6C.9000901@easy-emacs.de> <871tpdvk10.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> In-Reply-To: <871tpdvk10.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18992 Cc: 18992@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) > Well, but of course having the mode functions printed in `describe- > mode' wouldn't hurt anyway. This patch does that: This is an improvement. > However, in contrast to major-modes, minor mode names tend to be > much longer, so we can get some long lines like: >=20 > Global-Edit-Server-Edit minor mode (`global-edit-server-edit-mode'; > no indicator): Yes, that violates *Help* conventions. It is better to use this (or similar): ;; Document the minor modes fully. (insert pretty-minor-mode) (princ (format " minor mode:\n(`%s'; %s)\n" mode-function (if (zerop (length indicator)) "no indicator" (format "indicator%s" indicator)))) (save-excursion (fill-region-as-paragraph (line-beginning-position 0) (line-end-position 0) nil t t)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 08 11:35:57 2014 Received: (at 18992) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2014 16:35:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53848 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn8zV-00052v-HG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:35:57 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:26286) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn8zT-00052n-F0 for 18992@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:35:55 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sA8GZrfk019134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:35:54 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sA8GZqQb012166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:35:53 GMT Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sA8GZqn7012161; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:35:52 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5fa3b66b-53a0-4049-bc52-bf7c51f92d4b@default> Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 08:35:52 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: =?utf-8?B?QW5kcmVhcyBSw7ZobGVy?= , Tassilo Horn Subject: RE: bug#18992: 24.4; describe-mode References: <545DDF6C.9000901@easy-emacs.de> <871tpdvk10.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> <545E3CBE.2080001@easy-emacs.de> In-Reply-To: <545E3CBE.2080001@easy-emacs.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18992 Cc: 18992@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) > What about mentioning the variable at stake, i.e. "major-mode: " > resp. "minor-mode: " in format-function? > As said, repeating the rather arbitrary mode-line string doesn't > contribute, is confusing. There is no variable `minor-mode'. And users can find out about=20 `major-mode' elsewhere. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 08 11:42:18 2014 Received: (at 18992) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2014 16:42:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53858 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn95e-0005Cs-29 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:42:18 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:27306) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xn95c-0005Cl-De for 18992@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:42:16 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sA8GgFUr023744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:42:15 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA8GgE3l010883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:42:14 GMT Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sA8GgDBi010876; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:42:13 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <351f43ff-d3cc-4c04-bd8a-49723c316782@default> Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 08:42:12 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Tassilo Horn , =?utf-8?B?QW5kcmVhcyBSw7ZobGVy?= Subject: RE: bug#18992: 24.4; describe-mode References: <545DDF6C.9000901@easy-emacs.de> <871tpdvk10.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> <62c84c79-4884-4b65-b419-0e37f96102e1@default> In-Reply-To: <62c84c79-4884-4b65-b419-0e37f96102e1@default> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18992 Cc: 18992@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) > > However, in contrast to major-modes, minor mode names tend to be > > much longer, so we can get some long lines like: > > > > Global-Edit-Server-Edit minor mode (`global-edit-server-edit- > > mode'; no indicator): >=20 > Yes, that violates *Help* conventions. It is better to use this > (or similar): ... Actually, we should do similarly for the major mode, even if major mode names (including `mode-name') *tend* to be shorter. It is good behavior for functions printing unknown stuff to *Help* to ensure that lines are not too long, when possible. Something like this: (princ " mode") (let* ((mode major-mode) (file-name (find-lisp-object-file-name mode nil))) (when file-name (princ (concat " defined in `" (file-name-nondirectory file-name) "'")) (with-current-buffer standard-output ; Hyperlink to library. (save-excursion (re-search-backward "`\\([^`']+\\)'" nil t) (help-xref-button 1 'help-function-def mode file-name)))) (with-current-buffer standard-output (insert (format " (`%s'):\n" mode)) (save-excursion (fill-region-as-paragraph (line-beginning-position 0) (line-end-position 0) nil t t)))) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 05 06:35:42 2019 Received: (at 18992) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2019 11:35:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43158 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1icpQ5-0007nT-DN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 06:35:42 -0500 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:46584) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1icpQ3-0007nC-I3 for 18992@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 06:35:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xdotbQxN7Zy7tZ/JW6XQZSn5i9fQtEs9bQrx6N347oQ=; b=TMpzdU6oIr8GLXIxnzCW7ld+5T q/bgoajvlWZThrAI0Eeb7eEpc80JHQOu3cSS3s9DBmYK3fxAmF7NojOwNVSaiu/tw+t2vAF8i+sTD sSW3j/uW0YRuIhoaF5tvSJrF5X/XS8QuCr6wTY36MT5v3NGPYyRiFICrXiIENcYm79KlPJOoRhouA 1aluVsNMPdcJxP70d89Tb/bhZIeWcl5xgYPVTDMDWpzHGe1gUq/OObZsIGUWDTsfj36VayxW6QlOn +6GipSBPShJm6rWOPWuptgXunBcryar/TR/EEhoOwa77saw2PvTcNfnRb4xXjES3wHg9DMebffwcd FIKKPqoA==; Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:45424 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1icpPv-001M2c-MG; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 06:35:31 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas To: Tassilo Horn Subject: Re: bug#18992: 24.4; describe-mode In-Reply-To: <871tpdvk10.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Sat, 08 Nov 2014 15:34:03 +0100") References: <545DDF6C.9000901@easy-emacs.de> <871tpdvk10.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 12:35:29 +0100 Message-ID: <87tv6ff1j2.fsf@marxist.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18992 Cc: Andreas =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= , 18992@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Tassilo Horn writes: > Well, but of course having the mode functions printed in `describe-mode' > wouldn't hurt anyway. This patch does that: [...] > With that, in this message buffer I get: > > Message mode (`message-mode') defined in `message.el': > Major mode for editing mail and news to be sent. > Like Text Mode but with these additional commands: I don't think this is an improvement. It risks confusing more than it helps, especially for beginning users. We can already say `C-h v major-mode RET' which to my mind is wholly sufficient for anyone who needs to know the value of the `major-mode' variable. > With the following patch, the same would be done for the active minor > modes, too: [...] > However, in contrast to major-modes, minor mode names tend to be much > longer, so we can get some long lines like: > > Global-Edit-Server-Edit minor mode (`global-edit-server-edit-mode'; no indicator): I think this is even less of an improvement. I suggest to close this as wontfix. If I don't see any objections, I'll just go ahead and do that within a couple of weeks. Please send any opinions on this issue before then. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 14 21:01:39 2020 Received: (at 18992) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2020 02:01:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33998 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1irXzy-000378-21 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 21:01:38 -0500 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:50088) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1irXzs-00036k-KN; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 21:01:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0QiC/DzzPapk+6lyeRjq4lCb100hYCoEO6HqcrxDF58=; b=eoe1x+XrJGi4UGCMctHqSCjfX+ nXkZwda+AsbQhBltWRHDwi/CvFnHkgF6B4FUgxlIjpXxSTEmifsFAvfmE8yUSUAP72YLsWGDbN6Bx bMjINRfYwi+k08OyMidPW0n4IsvB6TWYavCCfcMXKRBg4dMiC4PzesX6dEoSVRL2EKtSnsyU0yPFP Th7VUccwdN3/jfmp6PUMYpqmZyVd2ACx/Y27EH7eXvEB3ntB41iGIzSwYPRnBjaibWovVkpGJEBw3 wIKekOSLBt/JRkMdHJXg1pYAejADkDshFyzT8vsCAI6/ZLA86xr5J/hp1Y5rgE6bz8eihLyblZSq4 eeJ72TkA==; Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:39900 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1irXzm-001bVT-S9; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 21:01:23 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas To: Tassilo Horn Subject: Re: bug#18992: 24.4; describe-mode In-Reply-To: <87tv6ff1j2.fsf@marxist.se> (Stefan Kangas's message of "Thu, 05 Dec 2019 12:35:29 +0100") References: <545DDF6C.9000901@easy-emacs.de> <871tpdvk10.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> <87tv6ff1j2.fsf@marxist.se> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 03:01:21 +0100 Message-ID: <87blr5h40e.fsf@marxist.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18992 Cc: Andreas =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= , 18992@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 18992 + wontfix notabug close 18992 thanks Stefan Kangas writes: > I suggest to close this as wontfix. If I don't see any objections, > I'll just go ahead and do that within a couple of weeks. Please send > any opinions on this issue before then. No objections within 6 weeks; closing this bug now. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sun Aug 10 16:48:55 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 12:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator