From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 26 11:54:50 2014 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2014 15:54:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36107 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQ9Z-0005s9-9Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 11:54:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41890) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQ9W-0005ru-Ii for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 11:54:47 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQ9H-0007CT-Dm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 11:54:41 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:35371) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQ9H-0007CP-BX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 11:54:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43600) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQ99-0001A0-SK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 11:54:31 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQ92-0007Bi-DO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 11:54:23 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:17322 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQ92-0007BU-7L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 11:54:16 -0400 Received: (qmail 53604 invoked by uid 3782); 26 Oct 2014 15:54:13 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (pD951867E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.81.134.126]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:54:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 9374 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Oct 2014 15:53:32 -0000 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 15:53:32 +0000 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line. Message-ID: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 8.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) Hello, Emacs. With the "latest" trunk (of about 2014-10-26 08:00 GMT), start emacs -Q. Type in "M-: (setq" and wait ~half a second. The word "setq" is spuriously echoed at the start of the mode line. This happens on both ttys and GUIs, at least on GNU systems. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 26 12:01:01 2014 Received: (at 18844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2014 16:01:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36112 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQFY-00062h-IX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:01:00 -0400 Received: from fely.am-1.org ([78.47.74.50]:37531) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQFW-00062W-8x for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:00:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=siamics.net; s=a2013295; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:Sender:References:Subject:To:From; bh=cnjq7fF5G1FFTt2vD80o7lcGPshunubHDaKg9DBquCs=; b=W+jnBcdErYZh6BZbuUZwuAzcQGMxuN/8P0Ro0znRjJM+Fc/T/QF1ghBLwkcsiAMX2b0BLD91p8eF9+Ih3deWoq8flj545L9/C1lNEKDBZ4Fn/BIRTYLdSshJG50cbkVxG+/RmO+qyhrDXvYMpONo9yHNdKz9mvvOaU3puj7TvkY=; Received: from [2a02:2560:6d4:26ca::1:1d] (helo=violet.siamics.net) by fely.am-1.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQFU-0003Vl-7g for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:00:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=violet.siamics.net) by violet.siamics.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQFM-0002k4-I0 for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 23:00:48 +0700 From: Ivan Shmakov To: 18844@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#18844: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line References: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:00:47 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Sun, 26 Oct 2014 15:53:32 +0000") Message-ID: <87mw8iddn4.fsf@violet.siamics.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18844 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) >>>>> Alan Mackenzie writes: > With the "latest" trunk (of about 2014-10-26 08:00 GMT), start emacs > -Q. Type in "M-: (setq" and wait ~half a second. The word "setq" is > spuriously echoed at the start of the mode line. > This happens on both ttys and GUIs, at least on GNU systems. By a chance, does it still happen if you disable global-eldoc-mode? --=20 FSF associate member #7257 http://boycottsystemd.org/ =E2=80=A6 3013 B6A0= 230E 334A From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 26 12:12:32 2014 Received: (at 18844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2014 16:12:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36121 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQQh-0006KN-Az for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:12:31 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:41760 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQQe-0006KD-LW for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:12:29 -0400 Received: (qmail 58872 invoked by uid 3782); 26 Oct 2014 16:12:27 -0000 Date: 26 Oct 2014 16:12:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20141026161227.58871.qmail@mail.muc.de> From: Alan Mackenzie To: Ivan Shmakov Subject: Re: bug#18844: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line Organization: muc.de e.V. In-Reply-To: X-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.bug User-Agent: tin/2.2.0-20131224 ("Lochindaal") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/8.4-RELEASE (amd64)) X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18844 Cc: 18844@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) In article you wrote: >>>>>> Alan Mackenzie writes: > > With the "latest" trunk (of about 2014-10-26 08:00 GMT), start emacs > > -Q. Type in "M-: (setq" and wait ~half a second. The word "setq" is > > spuriously echoed at the start of the mode line. > > This happens on both ttys and GUIs, at least on GNU systems. > By a chance, does it still happen if you disable > global-eldoc-mode? :-) If I disable global-eldoc-mode, the problem goes away. > -- > FSF associate member #7257 http://boycottsystemd.org/ ? 3013 B6A0 230E 334A -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 26 12:23:37 2014 Received: (at 18844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2014 16:23:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36127 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQbR-0006bX-3F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:23:37 -0400 Received: from mtaout28.012.net.il ([80.179.55.184]:49658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQbO-0006bG-TJ for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:23:35 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout28.012.net.il by mtaout28.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NE200N007RBL500@mtaout28.012.net.il> for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 18:21:19 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout28.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NE200GHJ83I8Y80@mtaout28.012.net.il>; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 18:21:19 +0200 (IST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 18:23:15 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#18844: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line. In-reply-to: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Alan Mackenzie Message-id: <83ioj64x70.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18844 Cc: 18844@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 15:53:32 +0000 > From: Alan Mackenzie > > With the "latest" trunk (of about 2014-10-26 08:00 GMT), start emacs -Q. > Type in "M-: (setq" and wait ~half a second. The word "setq" is > spuriously echoed at the start of the mode line. It's a feature: Emacs shows you some minimal documentation on what you type. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 26 12:32:59 2014 Received: (at 18844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2014 16:32:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36131 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQkU-0006r4-CA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:32:58 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27193) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQkR-0006qr-BV for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:32:55 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s9QGWn1K029526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <18844@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:32:49 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s9QGWl3L001595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <18844@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:32:48 GMT Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s9QGWlTQ023777 for <18844@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:32:47 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8dc436e5-4075-44e3-bc54-09ee4e8a0faf@default> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 09:32:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: 18844@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#18844: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line References: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> <87mw8iddn4.fsf@violet.siamics.net> In-Reply-To: <87mw8iddn4.fsf@violet.siamics.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18844 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) > > -Q. Type in "M-: (setq" and wait ~half a second. The word > > "setq" is spuriously echoed at the start of the mode line. >=20 > > This happens on both ttys and GUIs, at least on GNU systems. It happens on MS Windows also. =20 > =09By a chance, does it still happen if you disable > =09global-eldoc-mode? That gets rid of it; thanks. Please turn this OFF by default. This was pushed onto the trunk before any real discussion. Limited discussion ensued - about the missing doc for it - AFTER the fact: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2014-01/msg01771.html And in that discussion, Stefan said clearly that "this change in behavior was not intended." There was no real discussion of this mode-line takeover. As Eli said there, "I don't think turning this on by default in eval-minibuffer was ever seriously discussed." And Stefan concurred, saying that the only discussion was "about making eldoc work in the minibuffer, not about enabling it." But after that, in the same thread, Stefan said, "Feel free to add it as soon as we re-open the trunk for changes." Just add it - no discussion. Dommage. Someone's favorite shiny new toy should not be foisted on all users as changed default behavior. It took decades for `transient-mark-mode' to finally be turned on by default, after *much* discussion in emacs-devel. Should have happened a lot sooner, yes(!) - but still only after a thorough discussion. `delete-selection-mode' as default is still probably years off. Why should this mode-line takeover be imposed suddenly with no real discussion? Never would have happened in "the good ol' days". It is not hard for a user to turn such behavior ON, if desired. Why should it now be the default? Have you seen zillions of users demanding that this be the default behavior or something? Did you take a user poll, as RMS would likely advise? What is behind this, besides someone's desire to impose personal preferences on everyone? Let those who want to try it turn it on and experiment with it. Maybe after a few years we can discuss whether it merits being turned on by default, if many people clearly are using it at that point. Turning it on now without discussion is premature and anti-user/community. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 26 12:34:20 2014 Received: (at 18844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2014 16:34:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36135 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQlo-0006tj-4y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:34:20 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27423) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQlm-0006tS-EF for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:34:18 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s9QGYCl9030333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:34:12 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s9QGY153026903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:34:01 GMT Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s9QGY1Rh004358; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:34:01 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 09:33:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Alan Mackenzie Subject: RE: bug#18844: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line. References: <<20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm>> <<83ioj64x70.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83ioj64x70.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18844 Cc: 18844@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) > > With the "latest" trunk (of about 2014-10-26 08:00 GMT), start > > emacs -Q. Type in "M-: (setq" and wait ~half a second. The word > > "setq" is spuriously echoed at the start of the mode line. >=20 > It's a feature: Emacs shows you some minimal documentation on what > you type. One person's feature is another's annoyance. And not every such is imposed as the default behavior, out of the blue. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 26 13:01:46 2014 Received: (at 18844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2014 17:01:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36147 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiRCL-0007dZ-NL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:01:45 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:65346 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiRCI-0007dQ-UE for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:01:43 -0400 Received: (qmail 72545 invoked by uid 3782); 26 Oct 2014 17:01:39 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (pD951867E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.81.134.126]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 18:01:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 10405 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Oct 2014 17:00:59 -0000 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 17:00:59 +0000 To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#18844: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line. Message-ID: <20141026170058.GC4397@acm.acm> References: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> <83ioj64x70.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83ioj64x70.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18844 Cc: 18844@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) Hello, Eli. On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 06:23:15PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 15:53:32 +0000 > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > With the "latest" trunk (of about 2014-10-26 08:00 GMT), start emacs -Q. > > Type in "M-: (setq" and wait ~half a second. The word "setq" is > > spuriously echoed at the start of the mode line. > It's a feature: Emacs shows you some minimal documentation on what you > type. Ah. It's a feature. It just looks like a bug, and was somewhat unexpected. I'll close the bug, then (unless somebody else has already done so). -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 26 13:10:42 2014 Received: (at 18844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2014 17:10:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36159 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiRKz-0007rS-AU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:10:42 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:41781) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiRKx-0007rI-30 for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:10:39 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id s9QHAbDg016955; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:10:37 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 3F17FAE312; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:10:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Alan Mackenzie Subject: Re: bug#18844: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line. Message-ID: References: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:10:36 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Sun, 26 Oct 2014 15:53:32 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV5106=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5106> : inlines <1435> : streams <1326960> : uri <1829071> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18844 Cc: 18844@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > Type in "M-: (setq" and wait ~half a second. The word "setq" is > spuriously echoed at the start of the mode line. If only "setq" is echoed, then it's a bug. If "setq: ([SYM VAL]...)" is echoed (or something similar), then it's a feature. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 26 13:12:21 2014 Received: (at 18844-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2014 17:12:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36163 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiRMb-0007u9-0Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:12:21 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:61796 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiRMY-0007u0-E2 for 18844-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:12:18 -0400 Received: (qmail 75464 invoked by uid 3782); 26 Oct 2014 17:12:15 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (pD951867E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.81.134.126]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 18:12:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 10430 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Oct 2014 17:11:35 -0000 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 17:11:35 +0000 To: 18844-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#18844: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line. Message-ID: <20141026171135.GD4397@acm.acm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18844-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) Closed, as it is a feature, not a bug. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 27 05:47:09 2014 Received: (at 18844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Oct 2014 09:47:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36386 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XigtI-00087w-IA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2014 05:47:08 -0400 Received: from mail-pa0-f46.google.com ([209.85.220.46]:36496) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XigtF-00087L-QQ for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2014 05:47:06 -0400 Received: by mail-pa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id lf10so3469256pab.5 for <18844@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 27 Oct 2014 02:46:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=ME71k9hG/ZglUjvZpTiu3edwqDO9tWxdpwPVqgLFBiQ=; b=NXvrQJUYVHqog86fyMHyYdpS50T4d8vmU2iowZOhFcd4QiOmHjbCEiHn0LPI1Foubp q9Fscd7Qv8H5RX6Wt2a9Wj90YQe0f5hIpxKqB01ES2ZJaSsW3L/FVE5xA73QC3zOZkkS Vhj7SpGSyP2Gbz8ruszmZXmDiOqqPgiM+HfBxUkIsLy1zk+sdZt5z/d6uMhqIisT+Ze1 Z4CzkQ5zcVQUa5yzIa6AFa3nDhMsvO8XmrovY4HMBKBwmf67BlKTNBg5V62qs0veZHv7 pQ8tY2b8bAQWlH5jOomIcGCsCZ8ASgzzVf49P+VXZIgRZJma9kX1B0spU4/uAe35H7Ru LGbQ== X-Received: by 10.70.140.203 with SMTP id ri11mr23331848pdb.19.1414403219414; Mon, 27 Oct 2014 02:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axl ([113.160.248.69]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id oo9sm9298997pdb.26.2014.10.27.02.46.57 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Oct 2014 02:46:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Dmitry Gutov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#18844: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line References: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> <87mw8iddn4.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <8dc436e5-4075-44e3-bc54-09ee4e8a0faf@default> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:46:54 +0700 In-Reply-To: <8dc436e5-4075-44e3-bc54-09ee4e8a0faf@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 26 Oct 2014 09:32:45 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <86mw8hetf5.fsf@yandex.ru> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.94 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18844 Cc: 18844@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Drew Adams writes: > That gets rid of it; thanks. Please turn this OFF by default. It's a great feature, please keep it on. We've seen some votes in favor of it already too. If it annoys the majority of users, we'll see a lot more of dissenting voices. And Emacs trunk is a good place to experiment with new features, which won't necesarily make it into release. > Let those who want to try it turn it on and experiment with it. > Maybe after a few years we can discuss whether it merits being > turned on by default, if many people clearly are using it at > that point. Turning it on now without discussion is premature > and anti-user/community. Nobody really has to use it for a few years to decide if they like it or not. And there's no need for a years-long discussion about it either, it's not that big a feature. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 27 11:25:44 2014 Received: (at 18844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Oct 2014 15:25:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36832 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XimAx-0003m6-Lf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2014 11:25:44 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:19633) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XimAs-0003lm-U8 for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2014 11:25:40 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s9RFPWBR020391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:25:32 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s9RFPVli012671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:25:31 GMT Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s9RFPUY3012649; Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:25:30 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <83108ea9-6a27-4d71-baef-28eb17774f15@default> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:25:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Dmitry Gutov Subject: RE: bug#18844: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line References: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> <87mw8iddn4.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <8dc436e5-4075-44e3-bc54-09ee4e8a0faf@default> <86mw8hetf5.fsf@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <86mw8hetf5.fsf@yandex.ru> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18844 Cc: 18844@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) > > That gets rid of it; thanks. Please turn this OFF by default. >=20 > It's a great feature, please keep it on. Even if you, as one user, think it is a great feature, why should it suddenly be *on by default*. > We've seen some votes in favor of it already too. If it annoys the > majority of users, we'll see a lot more of dissenting voices. *Seen some votes* means nothing. Not seeing "a lot more" dissenting voices means nothing also. > And Emacs trunk is a good place to experiment with new features, > which won't necesarily make it into release. People can experiment with new features without Emacs turning them on by default. And that is generally what is done. > > Let those who want to try it turn it on and experiment with it. > > Maybe after a few years we can discuss whether it merits being > > turned on by default, if many people clearly are using it at > > that point. Turning it on now without discussion is premature > > and anti-user/community. >=20 > Nobody really has to use it for a few years to decide if they like > it or not.=20 Right. But a user deciding whether s?he likes it or not is not what this is about, is it? You are requesting that this be turned for *all* users, by *default*. > And there's no need for a years-long discussion about it > either, it's not that big a feature. It's not that big a feature =3D> don't turn it on by default. From unknown Mon Jun 23 07:50:52 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 12:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator