GNU bug report logs - #18812
24.4; url.el user agent does not include Emacs version

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Phil Hagelberg <phil <at> hagelb.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.4; url.el user agent does not include Emacs version
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:32:24 -0700

The url.el functions for making HTTP requests set the User-Agent header
to "URL/Emacs" which is not very descriptive. It would be helpful to
include the Emacs version, at least.



In GNU Emacs 24.4.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.10)
 of 2014-10-20 on enigma
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11204000
System Description:	Debian GNU/Linux 7.7 (wheezy)

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Emacs-Lisp

Minor modes in effect:
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  diff-auto-refine-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  hi-lock-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  elisp-slime-nav-mode: t
  paredit-mode: t
  whitespace-mode: t
  idle-highlight-mode: t
  hl-line-mode: t
  page-break-lines-mode: t
  eldoc-mode: t
  winner-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  ido-hacks-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
F C-x C-f r e a <return> M-< C-x ' C-s m a r m a l 
M-< C-v C-l C-n C-e C-b C-b C-b C-SPC M-b M-b M-b M-b 
M-b M-b M-b M-b M-w C-v C-v C-x C-f <backspace> <backspace> 
. e m <return> e l <return> r e c <return> c i d <return> 
y C-x k <return> C-n C-n C-x k <return> C-x k <return> 
C-x b C-n <return> C-x C-f C-g C-c C-c C-x C-g C-n 
TAB TAB k y F - r F P P C-x k <return> C-x b C-g C-x 
o C-c g C-x k <return> C-h v u s e r - a g e C-g C-h 
f u r l - r e t <return> C-x ' C-e C-x b h e l p <return> 
C-e M-b <return> C-x ' M-< C-s u s e r - a g e n t 
C-a C-s u r l / e m a C-a M-x u r l - r e t C-g C-x 
b C-g C-x b s c a <backspace> r a <return> ( u r l 
- r e t r M-/ - s M-/ SPC " h t t p : / / h t t p b 
i n . o r g / h e a d e r s C-e C-x C-e C-x b h t t 
p b i <return> C-x b C-n <return> M-< C-s U R L / <backspace> 
C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-a C-s a g 
e n t C-s C-a C-x b <return> C-x b h t t p b <return> 
C-x b <return> C-x b <return> C-s U s e r C-a C-v C-v 
M-x r e p o r t - e <return>

Recent messages:
Quit
Type "q" in help window to restore its previous buffer, C-M-v to scroll help.
Mark set
Mark saved where search started [2 times]
Quit [2 times]
Using try-expand-dabbrev-all-buffers [2 times]
Contacting host: httpbin.org:80
#<buffer  *http httpbin.org:80*>
Mark set
Mark saved where search started [3 times]

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
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multi-tty emacs)

Memory information:
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Message #8 received at 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Phil Hagelberg <phil <at> hagelb.org>
Cc: 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#18812: 24.4; url.el user agent does not include Emacs version
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 21:19:21 -0400

> The url.el functions for making HTTP requests set the User-Agent header
> to "URL/Emacs" which is not very descriptive.  It would be helpful to
> include the Emacs version, at least.

Other people feel like it's already too descriptive.  Why should all
Emacs users constantly tell the whole world exactly which Emacs version
they're running?


        Stefan

Message #11 received at 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz <at> lifelogs.com>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Phil Hagelberg <phil <at> hagelb.org>
Subject: Re: bug#18812: 24.4; url.el user agent does not include Emacs version
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 09:48:11 -0400

On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 21:19:21 -0400 Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> wrote: 

>> The url.el functions for making HTTP requests set the User-Agent header
>> to "URL/Emacs" which is not very descriptive.  It would be helpful to
>> include the Emacs version, at least.

SM> Other people feel like it's already too descriptive.  Why should all
SM> Emacs users constantly tell the whole world exactly which Emacs version
SM> they're running?

Web browsers do.  It helps web developers and is not particularly
sensitive if only the major.minor version is used (without too much detail).

Ted

Message #14 received at 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Phil Hagelberg <phil <at> hagelb.org>
Cc: 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#18812: 24.4; url.el user agent does not include Emacs version
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 12:07:36 -0400

> Web browsers do.

I know, and I don't like it either.

> It helps web developers

I think it only helps them in the sense "helps to dig themselves
further into a hole, instead of backing up towards the light" ;-)

> and is not particularly sensitive if only the major.minor version is
> used (without too much detail).

It wouldn't be the end of the world, indeed.
But I still haven't heard of any concrete reason why it would be
beneficial.  The only argument I've seen so far amounts to a handwavy
"would be helpful", which I find rather unconvincing.


        Stefan

Message #17 received at 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Phil Hagelberg <phil <at> hagelb.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#18812: 24.4; url.el user agent does not include Emacs version
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 09:21:59 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> But I still haven't heard of any concrete reason why it would be
> beneficial.  The only argument I've seen so far amounts to a handwavy
> "would be helpful", which I find rather unconvincing.

Personally, I am curious about the new signing features in
package.el. However, since these don't work in versions of Emacs older
than 24.4, I thought it would be interesting to examine the access logs
of Marmalade to see how fast the adoption of 24.4 is going.

-Phil

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Message #20 received at 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Phil Hagelberg <phil <at> hagelb.org>
Cc: 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#18812: 24.4; url.el user agent does not include Emacs version
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:51:48 -0400

> Personally, I am curious about the new signing features in
> package.el. However, since these don't work in versions of Emacs older
> than 24.4, I thought it would be interesting to examine the access logs
> of Marmalade to see how fast the adoption of 24.4 is going.

You don't need the version number for that: just check (failed?)
accesses to the *.sig files, since Emacs-24.4 will automatically look
for them by default.

The advantage is that this will also account for the 24.4 users who
don't have GPG installed (since for those, package.el won't look for
.sig files).


        Stefan

Message #23 received at 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ivan Shmakov <ivan <at> siamics.net>
To: 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#18812: 24.4; url.el user agent does not include Emacs version
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:17:48 +0000

>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz <at> lifelogs.com> writes:
>>>>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 21:19:21 -0400 Stefan Monnier wrote:

 PH> The url.el functions for making HTTP requests set the User-Agent
 PH> header to "URL/Emacs" which is not very descriptive.  It would be
 PH> helpful to include the Emacs version, at least.

 SM> Other people feel like it's already too descriptive.  Why should
 SM> all Emacs users constantly tell the whole world exactly which Emacs
 SM> version they're running?

 TZ> Web browsers do.  It helps web developers and is not particularly
 TZ> sensitive if only the major.minor version is used (without too much
 TZ> detail).

	Web browsers (and HTTP/HTTPS clients in general) also provide a
	way for the user to override the default User-Agent: value, and
	I believe that Emacs should allow for that, too.

	While somewhat tangential to the problem as reported, some of
	the issues I’ve seen with the default User-Agent: settings are:

	• Lynx’ default User-Agent: includes ‘libwww’ as a substring;
	  apparently, some Web sites mistake that for the well-known
	  Perl library of the same name, and thus reject the requests;
	  the solution is to either manually remove the respective
	  stanza, or to disable User-Agent: altogether;

	• other sites are known to disallow HTTP requests /without/
	  User-Agent:, however;

	• GNU Wget default identification is also not unknown to be
	  rejected; per my experience, using something like “tegW/1.15”
	  instead (via --user-agent=) tends to resolve the issue;

	• moreover, some sites actually serve different content
	  depending on User-Agent:, – apparently for “SEO” purposes; for
	  instance, a PDF file is served for a request from a party
	  identifying itself as a search engine, while regular browsers
	  get a Web page with a (presumably non-free) JavaScript-based
	  PDF reader set up for that file instead.

-- 
FSF associate member #7257  http://boycottsystemd.org/  … 3013 B6A0 230E 334A

Message #26 received at 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Phil Hagelberg <phil <at> hagelb.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#18812: 24.4; url.el user agent does not include Emacs version
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:37:25 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> You don't need the version number for that: just check (failed?)
> accesses to the *.sig files, since Emacs-24.4 will automatically look
> for them by default.

I can imagine other sites that would want to know this information, but
that works for me.

-Phil

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Message #29 received at 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Phil Hagelberg <phil <at> hagelb.org>
Cc: 18812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#18812: 24.4; url.el user agent does not include Emacs version
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 20:26:47 +0100

Phil Hagelberg <phil <at> hagelb.org> writes:

> The url.el functions for making HTTP requests set the User-Agent header
> to "URL/Emacs" which is not very descriptive. It would be helpful to
> include the Emacs version, at least.

You can now customise this with the `url-user-agent' variable.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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