From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 22 15:52:04 2014 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2014 19:52:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34910 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X9g6R-0005DP-Tg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:52:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57715) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X9g6M-0005D6-5p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:51:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X9g66-0000oG-Jv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:51:48 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:56756) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X9g66-0000oC-GV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:51:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59348) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X9g5x-0001qz-6y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:51:38 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X9g5n-0000jb-TM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:51:29 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:36437) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X9g5n-0000jQ-MO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:51:19 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s6MJpIoS016576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:51:18 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6MJpGlA003228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:51:17 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s6MJpGr6021012 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:51:16 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:51:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.4.50; (emacs) Arguments and (elisp) Prefix Command Arguments X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Both of these nodes speak of `M--', `M-3', etc. They should also mention the equivalent `C--', `C-3', etc. It is fine to add that without a graphic display the latter keys are not available, or to say that depending on your keyboard they might not be available to Emacs, or some such. But for the majority of Emacs users (my guess - if not, a large number), these keys are available. These keys should be mentioned. In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-06-28 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 117431 rgm@gnu.org-20140628015517-eku6hj8mpgcvfnso Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 29 18:15:06 2016 Received: (at 18083) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2016 22:15:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56076 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awGgk-0004Ze-EB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:15:06 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:51425) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awGgi-0004XN-IN for 18083@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:15:04 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awGgg-0003d0-3i; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:15:04 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#18083: 24.4.50; (emacs) Arguments and (elisp) Prefix Command Arguments References: Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:15:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:51:16 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87oa8sm596.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18083 Cc: 18083@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Drew Adams writes: > Both of these nodes speak of `M--', `M-3', etc. They should also > mention the equivalent `C--', `C-3', etc. I wonder whether the reason they aren't mentioned is that they're deprecated or something? Anybody know? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 29 19:01:55 2016 Received: (at 18083) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2016 23:01:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56171 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awHQ3-0003r2-JD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:01:55 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:48935) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awHQ1-0003l7-IY for 18083@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:01:53 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u3TN1lxY011819 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 23:01:47 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3TN1kKs016303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 23:01:47 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3TN1iNf006454; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 23:01:45 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <75d42f7e-707b-44e9-90b1-9b5d04207961@default> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:01:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#18083: 24.4.50; (emacs) Arguments and (elisp) Prefix Command Arguments References: <87oa8sm596.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87oa8sm596.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18083 Cc: 18083@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Both of these nodes speak of `M--', `M-3', etc. They should also > > mention the equivalent `C--', `C-3', etc. >=20 > I wonder whether the reason they aren't mentioned is that they're > deprecated or something? Anybody know? No, they are not deprecated. Presumably they are not mentioned because they are not available in some Emacs terminal sessions. That doesn't mean we shouldn't mention them - we should just point out that they might not be available in some contexts. They are particularly handy if you are using prefix args a lot or repetitively, as they use the same modifier as `C-u'. And they are somewhat easier for some people to type on some (common) keyboards. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 01:34:32 2016 Received: (at 18083) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 05:34:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56328 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awNY0-00010r-Cd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 01:34:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54442) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awNXy-00010f-IL for 18083@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 01:34:30 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awNXj-0008UE-V4 for 18083@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 01:34:22 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49055) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awNXj-0008TX-RJ; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 01:34:15 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1562 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1awNXd-0000x6-KB; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 01:34:10 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 08:33:44 +0300 Message-Id: <83oa8rvex3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <75d42f7e-707b-44e9-90b1-9b5d04207961@default> (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:01:41 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#18083: 24.4.50; (emacs) Arguments and (elisp) Prefix Command Arguments References: <87oa8sm596.fsf@gnus.org> <75d42f7e-707b-44e9-90b1-9b5d04207961@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18083 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 18083@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:01:41 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 18083@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Both of these nodes speak of `M--', `M-3', etc. They should also > > > mention the equivalent `C--', `C-3', etc. > > > > I wonder whether the reason they aren't mentioned is that they're > > deprecated or something? Anybody know? > > No, they are not deprecated. Presumably they are not mentioned > because they are not available in some Emacs terminal sessions. > > That doesn't mean we shouldn't mention them - we should just > point out that they might not be available in some contexts. FWIW, I know about them, but never use them. So I'm not sure we should mention them in the manual. > They are particularly handy if you are using prefix args > a lot or repetitively, as they use the same modifier as `C-u'. > And they are somewhat easier for some people to type on some > (common) keyboards. I'm probably missing something because I don't see how both of the above is not true about M-3 etc. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 11:16:47 2016 Received: (at 18083) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 15:16:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57896 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awWdT-0003Nz-DF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:16:47 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:24359) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awWdR-0003Nh-Km for 18083@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:16:46 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u3UFGdSb018219 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:16:39 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3UFGctD020044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:16:38 GMT Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3UFGZYA005558; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:16:37 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:16:34 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#18083: 24.4.50; (emacs) Arguments and (elisp) Prefix Command Arguments References: < <87oa8sm596.fsf@gnus.org>> <<75d42f7e-707b-44e9-90b1-9b5d04207961@default>> <<83oa8rvex3.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83oa8rvex3.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18083 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 18083@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > > Both of these nodes speak of `M--', `M-3', etc. They should also > > > > mention the equivalent `C--', `C-3', etc. > > > > > > I wonder whether the reason they aren't mentioned is that they're > > > deprecated or something? Anybody know? > > > > No, they are not deprecated. Presumably they are not mentioned > > because they are not available in some Emacs terminal sessions. > > > > That doesn't mean we shouldn't mention them - we should just > > point out that they might not be available in some contexts. >=20 > FWIW, I know about them, but never use them. So I'm not sure we > should mention them in the manual. I guess that sums things up, then? ;-) > > They are particularly handy if you are using prefix args > > a lot or repetitively, as they use the same modifier as `C-u'. > > And they are somewhat easier for some people to type on some > > (common) keyboards. >=20 > I'm probably missing something because I don't see how both of the > above is not true about M-3 etc. What is true of C- is not necessarily true in all contexts for M-, and vice versa. C-- C-2 C-x C-t. And yes, for some keyboards or some hands one or the other might be easier to use. This should not be about choosing to document only this one or only that one. And it should not be based on what you tend to use or I tend to use. It costs little to mention that C- also can be used, like M-. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 11:45:20 2016 Received: (at 18083) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 15:45:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57990 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awX52-0005zg-QM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:45:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42721) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awX4y-0005qx-0d for 18083@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:45:15 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awX4j-0002Kb-Mq for 18083@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:45:03 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:59584) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awX4j-0002Jg-JG; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:44:57 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1810 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1awX4d-0008MD-Bq; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:44:51 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 18:44:49 +0300 Message-Id: <83y47vnlse.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:16:34 -0800 (GMT-08:00)) Subject: Re: bug#18083: 24.4.50; (emacs) Arguments and (elisp) Prefix Command Arguments References: < <87oa8sm596.fsf@gnus.org>> <<75d42f7e-707b-44e9-90b1-9b5d04207961@default>> <<83oa8rvex3.fsf@gnu.org>> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18083 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 18083@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:16:34 -0800 (GMT-08:00) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 18083@debbugs.gnu.org > > This should not be about choosing to document only this one > or only that one. Of course, it is. > And it should not be based on what you tend to use or I tend to use. Then how come you raise this, based on your experience? > It costs little to mention that C- also can be used, like M-. It's bloat we need to justify. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 13:12:11 2016 Received: (at 18083) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 17:12:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58211 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awYR9-0001Pf-LW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:12:11 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:29179) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awYR7-0001PS-Pv for 18083@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:12:10 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u3UHC342030550 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Apr 2016 17:12:04 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3UHC3mb013642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Apr 2016 17:12:03 GMT Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3UHC2sC003000; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 17:12:02 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:12:01 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#18083: 24.4.50; (emacs) Arguments and (elisp) Prefix Command Arguments References: << <87oa8sm596.fsf@gnus.org>>> <<<75d42f7e-707b-44e9-90b1-9b5d04207961@default>>> <<<83oa8rvex3.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<83y47vnlse.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83y47vnlse.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18083 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 18083@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > This should not be about choosing to document only this one > > or only that one. >=20 > Of course, it is. Why? Why should we not document both? > > And it should not be based on what you tend to use or I tend to use. >=20 > Then how come you raise this, based on your experience? I am not, like you, claiming that my experience or preference should be the only thing documented. I'm for a big tent, documenting what you prefer (M-) and what I prefer sometimes (C-). Not because you or I prefer this or that, but because Emacs lets you use either one, and each is useful. > > It costs little to mention that C- also can be used, like M-. >=20 > It's bloat we need to justify. I've justified it. And it's not bloat, but useful info for users. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 13:26:22 2016 Received: (at 18083) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 17:26:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58237 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awYes-0003Q7-0T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:26:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37936) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awYeq-0003Pr-R9 for 18083@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:26:21 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awYec-00017f-At for 18083@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:26:12 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33376) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awYec-00016g-7a; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:26:06 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1937 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1awYeW-0008Ds-3m; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:26:00 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:25:58 +0300 Message-Id: <83k2jfnh3t.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:12:01 -0800 (GMT-08:00)) Subject: Re: bug#18083: 24.4.50; (emacs) Arguments and (elisp) Prefix Command Arguments References: << <87oa8sm596.fsf@gnus.org>>> <<<75d42f7e-707b-44e9-90b1-9b5d04207961@default>>> <<<83oa8rvex3.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<83y47vnlse.fsf@gnu.org>> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 18083 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 18083@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:12:01 -0800 (GMT-08:00) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 18083@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > This should not be about choosing to document only this one > > > or only that one. > > > > Of course, it is. > > Why? Why should we not document both? Asked and answered already. > > > And it should not be based on what you tend to use or I tend to use. > > > > Then how come you raise this, based on your experience? > > I am not, like you, claiming that my experience or preference > should be the only thing documented. I'm for a big tent, > documenting what you prefer (M-) and what I prefer sometimes > (C-). Not because you or I prefer this or that, but because > Emacs lets you use either one, and each is useful. They are all documented in the doc string of digit-argument. > > > It costs little to mention that C- also can be used, like M-. > > > > It's bloat we need to justify. > > I've justified it. And it's not bloat, but useful info for > users. We disagree about the balance. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 01 22:46:52 2017 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Apr 2017 02:46:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56250 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cuVXY-0003wQ-HV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2017 22:46:52 -0400 Received: from mail-io0-f179.google.com ([209.85.223.179]:36835) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cuVXW-0003wE-VB for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2017 22:46:51 -0400 Received: by mail-io0-f179.google.com with SMTP id l7so58716135ioe.3 for ; Sat, 01 Apr 2017 19:46:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=KtLzObj/O1UYaqRkC1EDfWvfkEKKsTwhmeGoXI3XmJI=; b=ePwRgvPzOBuGxt1EgGaS+jUHUvpV0dP1L3TgNwAozRSOciah8Q3NrXU+rUn5z6Mko1 umsxvJfdgt5U6bwMkzonsKgu/w13y+DaOrJr278EiyF/XnrnA+EPx249ResVfOCj4hDp nBkaFF5Df9KxpqfY7a0viyAQjCgxeAhnirI2WNKXVw0n0iT7Ylm4G97kfyvO22zHpSdD e5dTtbJwE2e0OPBzuGxi/DJt9ELlzcMzH6tCTH4a5H8WvT4mGFAGqndm26j6B3hrSAfr rQWdax/8z+w7vVmZFhrit7Yl5kvoxJtMS75Km5B4J6IdubuD/R5D3Fr0ZHcrqfGGNsgo YtyQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=KtLzObj/O1UYaqRkC1EDfWvfkEKKsTwhmeGoXI3XmJI=; b=dwL64nmLyirYdYSb+4LMzWl5308MHed3JeNMKKIUHRmZ+MSVdyodSTn3L8gcMBS/Ld r5aKfokzIAtOfJYoejrQGq0i8U8jQqXeReS8al3NkAQIFXTpdvvx+rf+pWJHX4/rXku9 nrBsLv7zrdsaEOSd0odtgP1y7pIjXhYTTuKXQS5M94MBfhU4cvZ77ZhSEflQH638leEZ +Iy9EfsuS1IZcwnpUeuzFIa3ZeZGCCDjpif6ALz2WfBAdB3qUGv4wVQrAip0631OITuN 4hrydfEuPNmBQKDsmrJUN6ClDtUUNzwOXcpAx/dSFNdMTNkfQCZfHCn8d1vz/Nwowrpv QWgA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H3Xr4Xt81/t7FmtozYZx9c6DAKLnyOGk/XYVS/REl5uMkaXjpsRCOB/BLIJolMjag== X-Received: by 10.107.167.204 with SMTP id q195mr11862616ioe.170.1491101205488; Sat, 01 Apr 2017 19:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zony ([45.2.7.65]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id l129sm6559931ite.1.2017.04.01.19.46.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sat, 01 Apr 2017 19:46:45 -0700 (PDT) From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#18083: 24.4.50; (emacs) Arguments and (elisp) Prefix Command Arguments References: <87oa8sm596.fsf@gnus.org>>> <75d42f7e-707b-44e9-90b1-9b5d04207961@default>>> <83oa8rvex3.fsf@gnu.org>>> > <83y47vnlse.fsf@gnu.org>> <83k2jfnh3t.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 22:48:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83k2jfnh3t.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:25:58 +0300") Message-ID: <87zifzy17a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) tags 18083 wontfix close 18083 quit Eli Zaretskii writes: > > They are all documented in the doc string of digit-argument. > >> > > It costs little to mention that C- also can be used, like M-. >> > >> > It's bloat we need to justify. >> >> I've justified it. And it's not bloat, but useful info for >> users. > > We disagree about the balance. From unknown Mon Aug 18 11:18:05 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator