From unknown Sat Sep 13 13:15:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17664: Solaris acl woes Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 13:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 17664 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: bdwalton@gmail.com, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, 17664@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Ben Walton , bug-gnulib@gnu.org, bug-coreutils@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.14017174165689 (code B ref -1); Mon, 02 Jun 2014 13:57:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jun 2014 13:56:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40819 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSjP-0001Th-V5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39190) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSjO-0001TU-6g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:54 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSj8-0002vh-3K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:49 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:42610) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSj8-0002vX-0k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40751) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSj0-0001sO-Ih for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSis-0002oT-TM for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:30 -0400 Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:60218) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSis-0002k0-Ja; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:22 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A1C4A6003C; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 06:56:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 52KkHV-HMe52; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 06:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-108-0-233-62.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [108.0.233.62]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 023DFA6000D; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 06:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <538C8273.7020607@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 06:56:03 -0700 From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Ben Walton wrote: > The lib/file-has-acl.c:acl_ace_nontrivial code that returns 1 is: Why is it returning 1, exactly? What are the value of access_masks[0, 1] and how do they compare to the masks, and what bits are set that shouldn't be if we want the ACLs to be trivial? From unknown Sat Sep 13 13:15:24 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.503) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Paul Eggert Subject: bug#17664: closed (Fwd: Re: Solaris acl woes) Message-ID: References: <538CB819.1050103@cs.ucla.edu> <538C8273.7020607@cs.ucla.edu> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 17664 X-Gnu-PR-Package: coreutils Reply-To: 17664@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 17:46:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1401731163-31990-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1401731163-31990-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #17664: Solaris acl woes which was filed against the coreutils package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 17664@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 17664: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D17664 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1401731163-31990-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 17664-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jun 2014 17:45:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41178 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WrWII-0008IC-4B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 13:45:14 -0400 Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:54483) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WrWIC-0008HI-KR; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 13:45:08 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833CAA6003D; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:44:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oQ5m3f6p+7xF; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 788ACA60028; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <538CB819.1050103@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 10:44:57 -0700 From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 17669@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Fwd: Re: Solaris acl woes References: <538C8273.7020607@cs.ucla.edu> In-Reply-To: <538C8273.7020607@cs.ucla.edu> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <538C8273.7020607@cs.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17664-done Cc: 17664-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) [Forwarding this to Bug#17669 as bug-coreutils seems to have misfiled it under 17664; closing 17664.] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Solaris acl woes Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 06:56:03 -0700 From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department To: Ben Walton , bug-gnulib@gnu.org, bug-coreutils@gnu.org Ben Walton wrote: > The lib/file-has-acl.c:acl_ace_nontrivial code that returns 1 is: Why is it returning 1, exactly? What are the value of access_masks[0, 1] and how do they compare to the masks, and what bits are set that shouldn't be if we want the ACLs to be trivial? ------------=_1401731163-31990-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jun 2014 13:56:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40819 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSjP-0001Th-V5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39190) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSjO-0001TU-6g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:54 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSj8-0002vh-3K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:49 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:42610) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSj8-0002vX-0k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40751) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSj0-0001sO-Ih for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSis-0002oT-TM for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:30 -0400 Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:60218) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WrSis-0002k0-Ja; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:56:22 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A1C4A6003C; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 06:56:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 52KkHV-HMe52; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 06:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-108-0-233-62.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [108.0.233.62]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 023DFA6000D; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 06:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <538C8273.7020607@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 06:56:03 -0700 From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Walton , bug-gnulib@gnu.org, bug-coreutils@gnu.org Subject: Re: Solaris acl woes References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Ben Walton wrote: > The lib/file-has-acl.c:acl_ace_nontrivial code that returns 1 is: Why is it returning 1, exactly? What are the value of access_masks[0, 1] and how do they compare to the masks, and what bits are set that shouldn't be if we want the ACLs to be trivial? ------------=_1401731163-31990-1-- From unknown Sat Sep 13 13:15:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17664: bug#17669: Fwd: Re: Solaris acl woes Resent-From: Ben Walton Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 06:52:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17664 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 17664-done@debbugs.gnu.org, 17669@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17664-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D17664.140177829224060 (code D ref 17664); Tue, 03 Jun 2014 06:52:03 +0000 Received: (at 17664-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jun 2014 06:51:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41535 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WriZI-0006Fs-0p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2014 02:51:32 -0400 Received: from mail-yk0-f170.google.com ([209.85.160.170]:43175) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WriZC-0006FQ-4t; Tue, 03 Jun 2014 02:51:27 -0400 Received: by mail-yk0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 10so4571021ykt.29 for ; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 23:51:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=A8s/ciOJi/sLRg12LfN9/rbMbRWo+xFXoytROWnfr4M=; b=CUYUvkx61GAkuchlchdE82puivDgaS9+BldZbmLidv53IGNP89x8vjsX8Gh8BNxUMX 0uBtlOLCGf8nAuFDSciN7o4WqP59kERhQtp8fsJWq5RdLriBFh9PLBvED3MUrCgolOuJ 3kWoj1Bc9+RO531+K0pJnU9TYkbsA5kwWmJWkYdgl+0M9qZqa1KpZ4E2YGf9jWl5BIJq PpspgQyGQ1ct0b629LwLD3IQNr4UAL5aTiTsny1hPS8bRBhOWJiSlJ7vMxddDCGLZyU4 dHnVr+CGswOzcyegSAOBJGfJSJa7yqd2SqfARBQybHUt41qvy/u5QczmSIGLc3IDkL9j sIKQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.113.69 with SMTP id z45mr60275120yhg.0.1401778280165; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 23:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.62.213 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 23:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.62.213 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 23:51:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <538CB819.1050103@cs.ucla.edu> References: <538C8273.7020607@cs.ucla.edu> <538CB819.1050103@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 07:51:20 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ben Walton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3010eb117177b104fae8f0c4 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --20cf3010eb117177b104fae8f0c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Jun 2, 2014 6:46 PM, "Paul Eggert" wrote: > > [Forwarding this to Bug#17669 as bug-coreutils seems to have misfiled it under 17664; closing 17664.] > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: Solaris acl woes > Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 06:56:03 -0700 > From: Paul Eggert > Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department > To: Ben Walton , bug-gnulib@gnu.org, bug-coreutils@gnu.org > > > > Ben Walton wrote: > >> The lib/file-has-acl.c:acl_ace_nontrivial code that returns 1 is: > > > Why is it returning 1, exactly? What are the value of access_masks[0, > 1] and how do they compare to the masks, and what bits are set that > shouldn't be if we want the ACLs to be trivial? I didn't get back to this yesterday but will tonight. What do you think about the fact that the Solaris tools seem to exhibit the same behavior? Thanks -Ben --20cf3010eb117177b104fae8f0c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Jun 2, 2014 6:46 PM, "Paul Eggert" <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
>
> [Forwarding this to Bug#17669 as bug-coreutils seems to have misfiled = it under 17664; closing 17664.]
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Re: Solaris acl woes
> Date: =C2=A0 Mon, 02 Jun 2014 06:56:03 -0700
> From: =C2=A0 Paul Eggert <egg= ert@cs.ucla.edu>
> Organization: =C2=A0 UCLA Computer Science Department
> To: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ben Walton <bdwalton@gmail.com>, bug-gnul= ib@gnu.org, bug-coreutils@gnu.= org
>
>
>
> Ben Walton wrote:
>
>> The lib/file-has-acl.c:acl_ace_nontrivial code that returns 1 is:<= br> >
>
> Why is it returning 1, exactly? =C2=A0What are the value of access_mas= ks[0,
> 1] and how do they compare to the masks, and what bits are set that > shouldn't be if we want the ACLs to be trivial?

I didn't get back to this yesterday but will tonight.

What do you think about the fact that the Solaris tools seem= to exhibit the same behavior?

Thanks
-Ben

--20cf3010eb117177b104fae8f0c4-- From unknown Sat Sep 13 13:15:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17664: bug#17669: Fwd: Re: Solaris acl woes Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 07:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17664 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ben Walton Cc: 17664-done@debbugs.gnu.org, 17669@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17664-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D17664.140177896125459 (code D ref 17664); Tue, 03 Jun 2014 07:03:02 +0000 Received: (at 17664-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jun 2014 07:02:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41544 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Wrik5-0006cY-C4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2014 03:02:41 -0400 Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:34844) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Wrik3-0006cG-84; Tue, 03 Jun 2014 03:02:40 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 377F2A60031; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 00:02:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JvzOvh6uCIaD; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 00:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-108-0-233-62.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [108.0.233.62]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A25B8A6002B; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 00:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <538D72FF.9000607@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 00:02:23 -0700 From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <538C8273.7020607@cs.ucla.edu> <538CB819.1050103@cs.ucla.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) Ben Walton wrote: > What do you think about the fact that the Solaris tools seem to exhibit the > same behavior? If they do this too, then I guess we're in good company.