From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 23 18:31:10 2014 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 May 2014 22:31:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58314 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Wnxza-0007Wh-5U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:31:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35572) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WnxzW-0007W8-NX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:31:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WnxzH-00032C-BF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:31:01 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:49794) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WnxzH-000328-7q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:30:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37275) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Wnxz8-0007ms-Eh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:30:51 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Wnxyz-0002yY-Li for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:30:42 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:30492) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Wnxyz-0002yT-Bv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:30:33 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4NMUW4V022683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 23 May 2014 22:30:32 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4NMUVGv004219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 23 May 2014 22:30:31 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4NMUTYc006547 for ; Fri, 23 May 2014 22:30:30 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default> Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:30:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.4.50; doc of "wrapper hooks" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) At least two places in the Elisp manual describe a variable as a "wrapper hook", and send readers off to node `Running Hooks' for more information. Alas, there is nothing in that node either about what a "wrapper hook" is or how it works. And there is no index entry that matches "wrapper". OK, so grepping the Lisp sources for, say, `filter-buffer-substring-functions', one of the vars whose doc tells you it is a "wrapper hook", gets you to the Lisp definition of `buffer-substring--filter', a so-called "internal" function. And there you discover a macro called `with-wrapper-hook'. Finally, the doc for that macro tells you something useful about "wrapper hooks" (without using the term, however). It would be helpful to Elisp users to document this macro in the Elisp manual. Alas, what else do we read in its doc string? This macro is obsolete since 24.4; use a -function variable modified by `add-function'. On n'arrete pas le progres ! Introduced in Emacs 23. Never documented in the manual, and made obsolete in Emacs 24. Please index and document the concept of "wrapper hook", in the Elisp manual. Or whatever this month's fashionable replacement is for this. Readers of the doc about `abbrev-expand-functions' or `filter-buffer-substring-functions' should not have to go fishing into the source code to understand what the doc means when it says that such a var is a "wrapper hook". In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-05-17 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 117119 eggert@cs.ucla.edu-20140517081131-ugu7ociaoec2xk7y Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 23 18:45:20 2014 Received: (at 17569) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 May 2014 22:45:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58326 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WnyDI-00080X-67 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:45:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:49842 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WnyDF-00080N-Jr for 17569@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:45:18 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WnyDF-0006S5-9G; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:45:17 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: 17569@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#17569: 24.4.50; doc of "wrapper hooks" References: <6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default> X-Spook: strategic Firefly Mossad KGB Waco, Texas Ruby Ridge Ft. X-Ran: -T2"H>V*RA)1JM)KLbtn3TU+I2f@$L`Bwkh*geY8&^l'],sV~?/)Q{mM15 X-Hue: yellow X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 18:45:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: <6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 23 May 2014 15:30:29 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <9pmwe8t8qq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.7 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17569 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.7 (-----) I documented this for an earlier release. Then it was made obsolete, and the documentation deleted, without cleaning up references to that documentation. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 23 18:53:59 2014 Received: (at 17569) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 May 2014 22:53:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58332 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WnyLe-0008IP-Bm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:53:58 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:25645) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WnyLc-0008I8-8g for 17569@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 18:53:56 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4NMrnFQ025968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 May 2014 22:53:50 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4NMrmOA024295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 23 May 2014 22:53:49 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4NMrl8n018786; Fri, 23 May 2014 22:53:47 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <17297117-eeea-4bca-a9a3-a08cd966d1fb@default> Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:53:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Glenn Morris , 17569@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#17569: 24.4.50; doc of "wrapper hooks" References: <6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default> <9pmwe8t8qq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <9pmwe8t8qq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17569 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) > I documented this for an earlier release. > Then it was made obsolete, and the documentation deleted, without > cleaning up references to that documentation. OK, thanks for the history. But if those variables whose doc refers to "wrapper hook" still have values that are a list of functions that are, in fact, wrapper hooks, then the concept still needs to be explained, one way or another. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 23 23:21:58 2014 Received: (at 17569) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2014 03:21:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58460 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Wo2Wz-0000vq-Ey for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 23:21:58 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:44480) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Wo2Wx-0000vY-E2 for 17569@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 23:21:55 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArYGAIDvNVPO+KQe/2dsb2JhbABZgwaDSr0vgw6BFxd0giUBAQEBAgFWIwULCzQSFBgNJIgECNIZF456B4Q4BIx1kyOJAYFqg0wh X-IPAS-Result: ArYGAIDvNVPO+KQe/2dsb2JhbABZgwaDSr0vgw6BFxd0giUBAQEBAgFWIwULCzQSFBgNJIgECNIZF456B4Q4BIx1kyOJAYFqg0wh X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,753,1389762000"; d="scan'208";a="63927404" Received: from 206-248-164-30.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.164.30]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 23 May 2014 23:21:49 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id AF3BA601D9; Fri, 23 May 2014 23:21:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#17569: 24.4.50; doc of "wrapper hooks" Message-ID: References: <6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default> <9pmwe8t8qq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <17297117-eeea-4bca-a9a3-a08cd966d1fb@default> Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 23:21:49 -0400 In-Reply-To: <17297117-eeea-4bca-a9a3-a08cd966d1fb@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 23 May 2014 15:53:46 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17569 Cc: Glenn Morris , 17569@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > OK, thanks for the history. But if those variables whose doc > refers to "wrapper hook" still have values that are a list of > functions that are, in fact, wrapper hooks, then the concept > still needs to be explained, one way or another. No, such vars should be obsolete as well (and hence removed from the doc). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 24 11:03:40 2014 Received: (at 17569) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2014 15:03:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59190 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoDU4-0006pX-ES for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 11:03:40 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:33938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoDU1-0006pJ-SH for 17569@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 11:03:39 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4OF3VRd020044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 May 2014 15:03:31 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4OF3R2l004600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 24 May 2014 15:03:30 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4OF3RTf002990; Sat, 24 May 2014 15:03:27 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6bad204d-c3d7-4630-aa7f-1a09288f6ad4@default> Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 08:03:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier Subject: RE: bug#17569: 24.4.50; doc of "wrapper hooks" References: <6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default> <9pmwe8t8qq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <17297117-eeea-4bca-a9a3-a08cd966d1fb@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17569 Cc: Glenn Morris , 17569@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) > > OK, thanks for the history. But if those variables whose doc > > refers to "wrapper hook" still have values that are a list of > > functions that are, in fact, wrapper hooks, then the concept > > still needs to be explained, one way or another. >=20 > No, such vars should be obsolete as well (and hence removed > from the doc). So not only is something like `buffer-substring-filters' to be considered obsolete (the case since Emacs 24), but also a var like `filter-buffer-substring', whose doc refers to the fact (since Emacs 24) that it uses "obsolete variable `buffer-substring-filters'." And what about a function, such as `filter-buffer-substring', whose implementation and doc string makes use of such a var? What is being recommended now for someone who wants the functionality of `filter-buffer-substring' - just roll your own? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 24 11:16:53 2014 Received: (at 17569) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2014 15:16:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59199 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoDgq-00079r-Lo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 11:16:52 -0400 Received: from mtaout25.012.net.il ([80.179.55.181]:38544) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoDgm-00079Z-UY for 17569@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 11:16:50 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout25.012.net.il by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N63005003KYYQ00@mtaout25.012.net.il> for 17569@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 18:13:32 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N6300NOK3MIVD70@mtaout25.012.net.il>; Sat, 24 May 2014 18:13:31 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 18:16:41 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#17569: 24.4.50; doc of "wrapper hooks" In-reply-to: <6bad204d-c3d7-4630-aa7f-1a09288f6ad4@default> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83ppj3jjfq.fsf@gnu.org> References: <6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default> <9pmwe8t8qq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <17297117-eeea-4bca-a9a3-a08cd966d1fb@default> <6bad204d-c3d7-4630-aa7f-1a09288f6ad4@default> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17569 Cc: 17569@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 08:03:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 17569@debbugs.gnu.org > > And what about a function, such as `filter-buffer-substring', > whose implementation and doc string makes use of such a var? > What is being recommended now for someone who wants the > functionality of `filter-buffer-substring' - just roll your own? Using obsolete variables or functions doesn't automatically make their users obsolete. It just means they need to be fixed by changing their implementation to use the alternative non-obsolete replacements. Therefore, there's no need to stop using those APIs that use obsolete vars. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 24 11:58:06 2014 Received: (at 17569) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2014 15:58:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59222 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoEKj-0008BZ-Jm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 11:58:05 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:20117) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoEKh-0008B2-AG for 17569@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 11:58:04 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4OFvuGF029426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 May 2014 15:57:57 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4OFvrNc022963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 24 May 2014 15:57:55 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4OFvrmN005458; Sat, 24 May 2014 15:57:53 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20d1abe2-d443-4668-8d9f-807936d1cd39@default> Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 08:57:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#17569: 24.4.50; doc of "wrapper hooks" References: <<6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default>> <<9pmwe8t8qq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org>> <<17297117-eeea-4bca-a9a3-a08cd966d1fb@default>> <> <<6bad204d-c3d7-4630-aa7f-1a09288f6ad4@default>> <<83ppj3jjfq.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83ppj3jjfq.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17569 Cc: 17569@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) > > And what about a function, such as `filter-buffer-substring', > > whose implementation and doc string makes use of such a var? > > What is being recommended now for someone who wants the > > functionality of `filter-buffer-substring' - just roll your own? >=20 > Using obsolete variables or functions doesn't automatically make their > users obsolete. It just means they need to be fixed by changing their > implementation to use the alternative non-obsolete replacements. > Therefore, there's no need to stop using those APIs that use obsolete > vars. Yes, we know that. And you'll notice that I didn't say anything about the many callers of `filter-buffer-substring' or about code that uses `filter-buffer-substring-functions'. However, I see now that I was mistaken about `filter-buffer-substring' using obsolete variable `filter-buffer-substring-functions'. It uses the replacement function `filter-buffer-substring-function' (no `s') instead. That was my main concern: what was being recommended as a replacement for `filter-buffer-substring'. I see now that it is not being made obsolete by making `filter-buffer-substring-functions' obsolete. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 24 12:22:01 2014 Received: (at 17569-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2014 16:22:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59228 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoEhs-0000Kd-UP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 12:22:01 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:34102) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoEhp-0000KN-JE for 17569-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 12:21:58 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArYGAIDvNVPO+KQe/2dsb2JhbABZgwaDSr0vgw6BFxd0giUBAQEBAgFWKAsLNBIUGA2IKAjSGRePARaEIgSpGYFqg0wh X-IPAS-Result: ArYGAIDvNVPO+KQe/2dsb2JhbABZgwaDSr0vgw6BFxd0giUBAQEBAgFWKAsLNBIUGA2IKAjSGRePARaEIgSpGYFqg0wh X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,753,1389762000"; d="scan'208";a="63967980" Received: from 206-248-164-30.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.164.30]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 24 May 2014 12:21:51 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B1C9A6013A; Sat, 24 May 2014 12:21:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: 17569-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#17569: 24.4.50; doc of "wrapper hooks" Message-ID: References: <6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default>> <9pmwe8t8qq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org>> <17297117-eeea-4bca-a9a3-a08cd966d1fb@default>> > <6bad204d-c3d7-4630-aa7f-1a09288f6ad4@default>> <83ppj3jjfq.fsf@gnu.org>> <20d1abe2-d443-4668-8d9f-807936d1cd39@default> Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 12:21:51 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20d1abe2-d443-4668-8d9f-807936d1cd39@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 24 May 2014 08:57:52 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17569-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > However, I see now that I was mistaken about `filter-buffer-substring' > using obsolete variable `filter-buffer-substring-functions'. It uses > the replacement function `filter-buffer-substring-function' (no `s') > instead. Thanks, closing, Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 24 16:09:21 2014 Received: (at 17569) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2014 20:09:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59350 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoIFn-0007WA-A6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 16:09:21 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:49696) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoIFk-0007Vq-Vo for 17569@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 16:09:13 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4OK950C023667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 May 2014 20:09:06 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4OK94jY023052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 24 May 2014 20:09:05 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4OK943v018968; Sat, 24 May 2014 20:09:04 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 13:09:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier Subject: RE: bug#17569: 24.4.50; doc of "wrapper hooks" References: <6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default> <9pmwe8t8qq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <17297117-eeea-4bca-a9a3-a08cd966d1fb@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17569 Cc: Glenn Morris , 17569@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) s> such vars should be obsolete as well (and hence removed s> from the doc). You closed the bug. Has this been removed from the doc? g> I documented this for an earlier release. g> Then it was made obsolete, and the documentation deleted, g> without cleaning up references to that documentation. Have such references been cleaned up now? When closing a bug, it's good to mention whether it has in fact been fixed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 24 16:56:45 2014 Received: (at 17569) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2014 20:56:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59392 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoIzl-0000bB-2l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 16:56:45 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:42912 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoIzj-0000b1-3x for 17569@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 16:56:43 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WoIzg-0005y9-Rv; Sat, 24 May 2014 16:56:40 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: 17569@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#17569: 24.4.50; doc of "wrapper hooks" References: <6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default>> <9pmwe8t8qq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org>> <17297117-eeea-4bca-a9a3-a08cd966d1fb@default>> > <6bad204d-c3d7-4630-aa7f-1a09288f6ad4@default>> <83ppj3jjfq.fsf@gnu.org>> <20d1abe2-d443-4668-8d9f-807936d1cd39@default> X-Spook: Bruxelles Ron Brown Qaddafi kilderkin Lexis-Nexis number X-Ran: Bw;EG53kBP`m(M;DPy`z2nDlz97kYB2Q"MjiXA5cKl%"rR)fNl\722fWqt~T:u*MqrqcbJ X-Hue: yellow X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 16:56:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 24 May 2014 12:21:51 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.7 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17569 Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.7 (-----) Stefan Monnier wrote: > Thanks, closing, -- Variable: filter-buffer-substring-functions This variable is a wrapper hook (*note Running Hooks::), whose -- Variable: abbrev-expand-functions This is a wrapper hook (*note Running Hooks::) run around the Since you deleted the explanation of wrapper hooks, these xrefs are pointless. Perhaps you want to delete the documentation of the obsolete wrapper hooks too. (Though in general I don't understand why you delete documentation of obsolete features, rather than simply adding a "The following refers to an obsolete feature. In new code, use FOO" or somesuch at the start.) filter-buffer-substring-function, completion-in-region-function, abbrev-expand-function don't seem to be documented. Only the obsolete forms are documented. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 24 17:35:23 2014 Received: (at 17569) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2014 21:35:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59428 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoJb7-00031R-Qw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 17:35:23 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:8069) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WoJb5-000318-Bi for 17569@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 17:35:19 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArYGAIDvNVNLd/fU/2dsb2JhbABZgwaDSr0vgw6BFxd0giUBAQEBAgFWIwULCw4mEhQYDSSIBAjSGReOegeEOASpGYFqg0wh X-IPAS-Result: ArYGAIDvNVNLd/fU/2dsb2JhbABZgwaDSr0vgw6BFxd0giUBAQEBAgFWIwULCw4mEhQYDSSIBAjSGReOegeEOASpGYFqg0wh X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,753,1389762000"; d="scan'208";a="63995043" Received: from 75-119-247-212.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([75.119.247.212]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 24 May 2014 17:35:13 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 886A260563; Sat, 24 May 2014 17:35:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#17569: 24.4.50; doc of "wrapper hooks" Message-ID: References: <6907e1e1-e802-45cd-adad-917290420cf6@default>> <9pmwe8t8qq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org>> <17297117-eeea-4bca-a9a3-a08cd966d1fb@default>> > <6bad204d-c3d7-4630-aa7f-1a09288f6ad4@default>> <83ppj3jjfq.fsf@gnu.org>> <20d1abe2-d443-4668-8d9f-807936d1cd39@default> Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 17:35:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Sat, 24 May 2014 16:56:40 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17569 Cc: 17569@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > wrapper hooks too. (Though in general I don't understand why you delete > documentation of obsolete features, rather than simply adding a "The > following refers to an obsolete feature. In new code, use FOO" or > somesuch at the start.) I don't think it's worth documenting that which we discourage. But if you want to document how to replace such code with the new feature, that's fine. > filter-buffer-substring-function, completion-in-region-function, > abbrev-expand-function don't seem to be documented. `completion-in-region-function' is probably not worth documenting. But the filter-buffer-substring-functions and abbrev-expand-functions documentation should be changed indeed to document filter-buffer-substring-function and abbrev-expand-function instead. Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 09:31:52 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator