From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:00:13 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#17567 <17567@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#17567 <17567@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' Reply-To: bug#17567 <17567@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 07:00:13 +0000 retitle 17567 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' reassign 17567 emacs submitter 17567 Drew Adams severity 17567 minor tag 17567 fixed thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 23 15:16:18 2014 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 May 2014 19:16:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58200 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Wnux0-0000B3-4A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 15:16:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55222) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Wnuwx-0000Ai-Tv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 15:16:16 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Wnuwi-0006x6-Ei for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 15:16:10 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:34021) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Wnuwi-0006x0-Ag for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 15:16:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56867) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WnuwZ-0006wg-8v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 15:16:00 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WnuwQ-0006ti-Ia for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 15:15:51 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:47759) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WnuwQ-0006tX-4X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 15:15:42 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4NJFeE6010839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 23 May 2014 19:15:41 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4NJFdFo009949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 23 May 2014 19:15:40 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4NJFdnp017629 for ; Fri, 23 May 2014 19:15:39 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 12:15:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) The doc string erroneously says that parameter NAME is "a string which will appear in the status line". Emacs does not have a "status line". That term is used nowhere. What should be said about NAME is that it defines the value of variable `mode-name' for mode CHILD. A user consulting that variable will see that its value is used in the mode line etc. In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-05-17 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 117119 eggert@cs.ucla.edu-20140517081131-ugu7ociaoec2xk7y Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 23 15:36:09 2014 Received: (at 17567) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 May 2014 19:36:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58209 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WnvGD-0001x6-6w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 15:36:09 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:25896) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WnvG9-0001wU-Ng for 17567@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 May 2014 15:36:06 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4NJZwdB032090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <17567@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 23 May 2014 19:35:59 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4NJZvCm000632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <17567@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 23 May 2014 19:35:58 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4NJZsrb028577 for <17567@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 23 May 2014 19:35:56 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 12:35:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: 17567@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) Also, the doc string should state the types of the values of keywords :group, :syntax-table, and :abbrev-table. And it says that the mode runs the hook constructed by function `derived-mode-hook-name'. Constructed how? What does constructed mean here? And the doc string of `derived-mode-hook-name' is no help here: "Construct a mode-hook name based on a MODE name." The arg is MODE. What is it? What data type? And what is its "name"? What does it mean to construct a hook name? And how is that name constructed from the "MODE name"? And what about the contradiction between the doc string of `define-derived-mode' and that of `derived-mode-hook-name'? The former says that `d-m-h-name' constructs a _hook_. The latter says that it constructs a hook _name_. Far clearer for `derived-mode-hook-name' would be to just say what it really does: Return a symbol whose name is "-hook" appended to the `symbol-name' of MODE. That also makes it clear that MODE is expected to be a symbol. (Similarly, for the other `defsubst's in derived.el.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 15:16:10 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 19:16:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58428 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awaN8-0005we-K2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:16:10 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:59793) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awaN7-0005wV-Tp for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:16:10 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awaN5-0005pC-R0 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:16:09 +0200 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:16:07 +0200 Message-Id: <87lh3udi14.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #20531 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) forcemerge 20531 17567 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 13:15:25 2021 Received: (at 17567) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 17:15:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34559 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUBGn-0004fV-0l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:15:25 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f178.google.com ([209.85.214.178]:34594) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUBGl-0004f9-08 for 17567@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:15:23 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f178.google.com with SMTP id a7so8743845plm.1 for <17567@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6C5qdby65KdUvXvWOdLlpKDaXlDtcjdOUfrMdspTCko=; b=68yneDDpL/NB6YNgTkiT5uILhLaUhsr1utwy6NKxKJvAKr/LQEEOO9Zc3YG35eng4u LTCD2rFPZY6CcIyQysVm8i+dTfw8urebRer3QHY2JRKOKnZaDf0fdc26X1Ok4JYEPMmy pvPqWe8zXpIejXNRwTMLkY7/bzEuJAAN666PyWM7x7L+sH95Hk7wbOPW1t0ySxWacKnJ jjOxqNXlN0kFNtES+TQJM0kT3ZTN+y5sA7NqnC+5Hr6sqcn/Smz5EXJUWrOg9aYScdwn ogG1CgtBoJqRMfyXL0oeSUJA7KO/4gP7eqoWBvUN9NslK6lf5iOPcCFL769Y1E2OJWPa igLw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532qUK4MxpGRuYAcuYuj86tnGLG2eKcNS9tf0s/MHLiQ7kzK/Bpr RCYvUZKsEbPKGGl00/PiAqamFLOEsG4kz8t46ew= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyipXHY8qLnndxSaNWRy5osCCcVUXd/tJxZZmi6Csxdzlvn9ehr4DTZ6jBmz/U42SB8wl8sGkfhCPR33P0KATo= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:460a:: with SMTP id w10mr9235849pjg.132.1632590117283; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:16 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 23 May 2014 12:35:53 -0700 (PDT)") References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:16 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: 17567@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 17567 + fixed close 17567 28.1 thanks Drew Adams writes: > The doc string erroneously says that parameter NAME is "a string > which will appear in the status line". > > Emacs does not have a "status line". That term is used nowhere. > > What should be said about NAME is that it defines the value of variable > `mode-name' for mode CHILD. A user consulting that variable will see > that its value is used in the mode line etc. Drew Adams writes: > Also, the doc string should state the types of the values of > keywords :group, :syntax-table, and :abbrev-table. > > And it says that the mode runs the hook constructed by function > `derived-mode-hook-name'. Constructed how? What does constructed > mean here? > > And the doc string of `derived-mode-hook-name' is no help here: > "Construct a mode-hook name based on a MODE name." > > The arg is MODE. What is it? What data type? And what is > its "name"? What does it mean to construct a hook name? > And how is that name constructed from the "MODE name"? > > And what about the contradiction between the doc string of > `define-derived-mode' and that of `derived-mode-hook-name'? > The former says that `d-m-h-name' constructs a _hook_. The > latter says that it constructs a hook _name_. > > Far clearer for `derived-mode-hook-name' would be to just > say what it really does: > > Return a symbol whose name is "-hook" appended to the > `symbol-name' of MODE. > > That also makes it clear that MODE is expected to be a symbol. > > (Similarly, for the other `defsubst's in derived.el.) I have now fixed this on (commit e4c9081d46). This change will be a part of the upcoming Emacs 28.1. Please verify that this fix works for you, but for now I'm closing this bug report. If you see anything that is wrong, please reply to this email (use "Reply to all" in your email client) and we can reopen the bug report. You could also just report a new bug. Thanks again for the bug report! From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 13:30:43 2021 Received: (at 17567) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 17:30:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34593 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUBVa-0005gh-Th for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:30:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59446) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUBVa-0005ba-36 for 17567@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:30:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49350) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUBVU-0004zM-6P; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:30:36 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1078 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUBVG-0006FE-Aa; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:30:33 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 20:30:22 +0300 Message-Id: <83o88gpnpt.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:16 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:16 -0700 > Cc: 17567@debbugs.gnu.org > > I have now fixed this on (commit e4c9081d46). This change will be a > part of the upcoming Emacs 28.1. Thanks, but IMO talking about "unquoted symbols" makes this text confusing. Why did you need to say that? My suggestion is to remove those sentences, they aren't needed. 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Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:01:45 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83o88gpnpt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> <83o88gpnpt.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:01:45 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I have now fixed this on (commit e4c9081d46). This change will be a >> part of the upcoming Emacs 28.1. > > Thanks, but IMO talking about "unquoted symbols" makes this text > confusing. Why did you need to say that? My suggestion is to remove > those sentences, they aren't needed. Oh, I thought it made it more clear. As a user of this function, I basically just want to know if I need to put: :syntax-table foo-syntax-table or :syntax-table 'foo-syntax-table I'm fine with saying nothing, for the simple fact that these features aren't used that much, and it's easy to just try both variants to see which work. But I think it would be better to say something if we can come up with something clear. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 14:42:34 2021 Received: (at 17567) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 18:42:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34727 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCd8-0002oT-7X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:42:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41224) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCd6-0002oH-H3 for 17567@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:42:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51506) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCd0-0007OB-OR; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:42:26 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1499 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCd0-0004o1-AP; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:42:26 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:42:22 +0300 Message-Id: <83lf3kpkdt.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 25 Sep 2021 17:36:16 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#17567: [External] : Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 17:36:16 +0000 > Cc: "17567@debbugs.gnu.org" <17567@debbugs.gnu.org> > > > Please verify that this fix works for you, but for now I'm closing this > > bug report. If you see anything that is wrong, please reply to this > > email (use "Reply to all" in your email client) and we can reopen the > > bug report. You could also just report a new bug. > > No, I won't try to verify your fix by downloading the > updated files from master etc. If you'd posted the > new doc string in the bug thread I could easily have, > and would have, gladly checked it. There's no need to download anything, the up-to-date sources can be browsed on the Savannah's Emacs project page using your Web browser. The URL was posted for your convenience many times. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 14:46:09 2021 Received: (at 17567) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 18:46:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34736 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCga-0002uh-U7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:46:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41688) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCgY-0002uG-QL for 17567@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:46:07 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52064) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCgS-00021z-Mi; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:46:01 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1721 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCgS-00054F-9X; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:46:00 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:46:00 +0300 Message-Id: <83ilyopk7r.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:01:45 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> <83o88gpnpt.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:01:45 -0700 > Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Thanks, but IMO talking about "unquoted symbols" makes this text > > confusing. Why did you need to say that? My suggestion is to remove > > those sentences, they aren't needed. > > Oh, I thought it made it more clear. As a user of this function, I > basically just want to know if I need to put: > > :syntax-table foo-syntax-table > > or > :syntax-table 'foo-syntax-table The first is a variable, the second is a symbol. "Unquoted symbol" is something that causes at least me to raise a brow. > I'm fine with saying nothing, for the simple fact that these features > aren't used that much, and it's easy to just try both variants to see > which work. But I think it would be better to say something if we can > come up with something clear. The thing is, we use this all over the place, so we'd need to say that everywhere. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 32bcd3dd-79e6-4279-754b-08d9805690a9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Sep 2021 18:59:13.1586 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: wsRsdOaqfT/X9Dqd0fYQQDEqTrHGJ1r9wSW8q6A1GDKVTj8F41KyUumB9Jq/kX3dZ0hNZpHrUW2SL+UfgR6FbA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB3415 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10118 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=857 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2109250145 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: VlEFnb6wUYT63TfOAXyV2irCDAxyjJBl X-Proofpoint-GUID: VlEFnb6wUYT63TfOAXyV2irCDAxyjJBl X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: "stefan@marxist.se" , "17567@debbugs.gnu.org" <17567@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > No, I won't try to verify your fix by downloading the > > updated files from master etc. If you'd posted the > > new doc string in the bug thread I could easily have, > > and would have, gladly checked it. >=20 > There's no need to download anything, the up-to-date sources can be > browsed on the Savannah's Emacs project page using your Web browser. As I said, if the updated doc string is posted in the bug-report thread then I'll be glad to check it (whether with a web browser or a mail client). But no, I'm not going to go to Savannah, find the Emacs project page, and dig out the source code. Not for a doc string correction. Far easier, and clearer for everyone, to post the doc string in the bug thread, where it will remain forever as part of that thread. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 15:06:02 2021 Received: (at 17567) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 19:06:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34772 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCzq-0003RP-Kt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:06:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44552) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCzo-0003Qv-Os for 17567@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:06:01 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53190) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCzj-0002Ba-4l; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:05:55 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2938 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCzh-0001ca-Km; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:05:54 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 22:05:51 +0300 Message-Id: <83ee9cpjao.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 25 Sep 2021 18:59:13 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#17567: [External] : Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> <83lf3kpkdt.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "stefan@marxist.se" , > "17567@debbugs.gnu.org" > <17567@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 18:59:13 +0000 > > > > No, I won't try to verify your fix by downloading the > > > updated files from master etc. If you'd posted the > > > new doc string in the bug thread I could easily have, > > > and would have, gladly checked it. > > > > There's no need to download anything, the up-to-date sources can be > > browsed on the Savannah's Emacs project page using your Web browser. > > As I said, if the updated doc string is posted > in the bug-report thread then I'll be glad to > check it (whether with a web browser or a mail > client). That's not how Emacs development works. People who want to track the development or participate in it are expected to access the Git repository. > But no, I'm not going to go to Savannah, find > the Emacs project page, and dig out the source > code. Not for a doc string correction. You can see the diffs there as well, if you want. No need for any digging, as the changes are shown in chronological order with their commit log messages which can be easily searched to find what you need. If you refuse to do that, you are not helping the project as much as you could have. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 15:07:11 2021 Received: (at 17567) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 19:07:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34776 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUD0w-0003TC-W6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:07:11 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f171.google.com ([209.85.210.171]:34333) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUD0u-0003Sv-R8 for 17567@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:07:09 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f171.google.com with SMTP id g14so11900581pfm.1 for <17567@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:07:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Aajxvviw6TEeRx1Z0C9F4SLyLggwQVr6hWzmJY7e2uY=; b=oJnSAUiP2dNqTpFKyy0wMPqBaO8JjZ9DkoX7cn6VdHRpugUKSBUkN1cV27y0VS2S79 wr/EeqYes5KpXAl8z3O+zkVW0IB73yGrTktzYvwMnDz41PxZdJCkqCAoIcCqkgRa9oUy Hxisidcd/nheHyBlMBCvkXZVI6VLKS6T1UB3s6FxGnkBuDzVsud4SGiad40PQ4AOh8le MrLEIdA8sPcORmZ80rHwih6pDTDxSSLDg4lKFIv7pKcWes4M8/yfjwPbHrSTadyFWjxH wVAjPVh64hqmLYFbvjhNWHaJkjUYdwwxJks2YjzwnxFMLt26t2uy7jZ8Y8+XhRq4huUh 08iw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Uiz6aYGjd/qK7SMiQz6rCP3G2wevUqknErYBDz5f2wrrRwVqV Qf0v8IumaMM0r8+hVRU0c7ry6lihpO09aIgtr9s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy2bv0oOOy2Euf9TRKxTFm5UGyhhVsMFTMufpuzCC7r3KSHFqXf+Emlebjl0YLaXkuWNapvL9M90yBCxFAVfFA= X-Received: by 2002:a62:cd0f:0:b0:447:b8fe:d6c2 with SMTP id o15-20020a62cd0f000000b00447b8fed6c2mr15855729pfg.70.1632596822842; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:07:02 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83ilyopk7r.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> <83o88gpnpt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ilyopk7r.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:07:02 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > The first is a variable, the second is a symbol. "Unquoted symbol" is > something that causes at least me to raise a brow. Is it better to delete that sentence and leave it as it was, or is there something else we could usefully put as an explanation? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 15:11:38 2021 Received: (at 17567) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 19:11:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34784 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUD5G-0003aX-Ng for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:11:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45324) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUD5F-0003aL-AF for 17567@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:11:38 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53274) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUD59-0006tZ-MK; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:11:31 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3285 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUD59-00011E-6o; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:11:31 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 22:11:30 +0300 Message-Id: <83bl4gpj19.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:07:02 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> <83o88gpnpt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ilyopk7r.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:07:02 -0700 > Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > The first is a variable, the second is a symbol. "Unquoted symbol" is > > something that causes at least me to raise a brow. > > Is it better to delete that sentence and leave it as it was, or is there > something else we could usefully put as an explanation? I think it's better to delete it. In general, when the symbol's value is needed, we don't say anything. When the symbol itself is needed, we sometimes say it should be a symbol, as in the case of add-hook: HOOK should be a symbol, ... So I think in this case we don't need to say anything. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 15:38:43 2021 Received: (at 17567) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 19:38:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34823 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDVP-0004G3-Qu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:38:42 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f176.google.com ([209.85.215.176]:35336) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDVM-0004Fp-Ql for 17567@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:38:38 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f176.google.com with SMTP id e7so13461930pgk.2 for <17567@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:38:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eUhAKwmn0Y4Wk0YSYhPz7Nh37T3l0pR+T02voOdjvOY=; b=xB9sC/U7F176m8yUSMuG1kT/OkrhMx3j8DHkNavYlds1k3I6TwjBTlkksMzAe1/K8i Hg0c5LNhS8NGyN3+V0OtvbZIKzbVfzlzA/eqgFXbVsVbkXsMaHwmwNp82w9vhD/UhTGl sESH4+PK3gAaxNVuIm6sw1ljgBd2l/Ib7auZqnW861CNevdkZnV0PxZ0UDDIiCcrIj3w 29hFWVfFrIVW14lE1Ikaru8+V3xHpUy6YABbvB22YuPRsdT/jEOQGGxsa7VArqr1GJ19 3HGaMVMOGEBECZUZDfzdNK+MiIY6Gvhy/Q8a2O+Of9VXSePQTyfcGc/5ut2zik7cmCiY sacQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533TIGnFikQsDPKOYlEK2iZ0LTOpsfDpScj0z1IHA4ZZy0PxDbDB bfqIybMq8LYe5aQwClXOs9utxPXJridIj5P4HZo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxzgwP9BpfwLGbHSrLtwCAky2JB4jfeWYLopRXx6pCvN6DFxmhnV81OHGqe/L426j3oA4L6DbFwjE5Oa4P8NSs= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9e90:0:b0:43f:2abb:a504 with SMTP id p16-20020aa79e90000000b0043f2abba504mr16088768pfq.35.1632598711128; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:38:30 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83bl4gpj19.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> <83o88gpnpt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ilyopk7r.fsf@gnu.org> <83bl4gpj19.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:38:30 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I think it's better to delete it. OK, done. 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Sat, 25 Sep 2021 19:44:50 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c0bc:7c3a:292f:8a82]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c0bc:7c3a:292f:8a82%9]) with mapi id 15.20.4544.020; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 19:44:50 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#17567: [External] : Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' Thread-Topic: bug#17567: [External] : Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' Thread-Index: AQHXskBhV0bX07+B2kiMov2yWLklfKu1HI5g Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 19:44:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> <83lf3kpkdt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ee9cpjao.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83ee9cpjao.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnu.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gnu.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c4c37f49-751e-4ab1-a31b-08d9805cf013 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB4527: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c4c37f49-751e-4ab1-a31b-08d9805cf013 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Sep 2021 19:44:50.1616 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ZdNVaN4GFYI/v5Te6QG4deOReY4HJHS/4M88HYrcb8YMNoOwmL9yTa7vOyEOgcZj0soSYqTrhgo2XHF5KaGPEA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR10MB4527 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10118 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2109250150 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 76Rlk3_jQeHdDn0NTIUNKFigmd--Rnqs X-Proofpoint-GUID: 76Rlk3_jQeHdDn0NTIUNKFigmd--Rnqs X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: "stefan@marxist.se" , "17567@debbugs.gnu.org" <17567@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > As I said, if the updated doc string is posted > > in the bug-report thread then I'll be glad to > > check it (whether with a web browser or a mail > > client). >=20 > That's not how Emacs development works. People who want to track the > development or participate in it are expected to access the Git > repository. If you'd like me to check the fix (Stefan's request) then please consider putting the new text in the bug thread. Otherwise, you'll just have to do without my review and feedback, I guess. Not a biggee (the bug was anyway closed, without such a review). _I didn't request_ to review the fix ("participate" in tracking the development). I was invited to do so. I replied that if the text to review is in the bug thread then I'll be glad to review it. > > But no, I'm not going to go to Savannah, find > > the Emacs project page, and dig out the source > > code. Not for a doc string correction. >=20 > ... If you refuse to do that, you are not helping > the project as much as you could have. If you refuse to put the updated doc string in a bug thread that asks only for a doc-string fix, then you're not helping users, or the project, as much as you could. Copy...paste...send. Simple. (I'd even consider that common courtesy, but you're by no means obliged to see courtesy the same way, of course.) ___ And if that review-request text is boilerplate (I wonder now, as I see that it mentions using "Reply to all" etc.) then you might consider adding a link to it, to the fix (manually, if not automatically). Please verify that this fix works for you, but for now I'm closing this bug report. If you see anything that is wrong, please reply to this email (use "Reply to all" in your email client) and we can reopen the bug report. You could also just report a new bug. Thanks again for the bug report! From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 15:53:41 2021 Received: (at 17567) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 19:53:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34853 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDjw-0004fk-O6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:53:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50764) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDjw-0004fW-0O for 17567@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:53:40 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54266) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDjq-0000lh-9r; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:53:34 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1869 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDjp-00070O-S2; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:53:34 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 22:53:33 +0300 Message-Id: <835yuoph36.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 25 Sep 2021 19:44:50 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#17567: [External] : Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> <83lf3kpkdt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ee9cpjao.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "stefan@marxist.se" , > "17567@debbugs.gnu.org" > <17567@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 19:44:50 +0000 > > > > As I said, if the updated doc string is posted > > > in the bug-report thread then I'll be glad to > > > check it (whether with a web browser or a mail > > > client). > > > > That's not how Emacs development works. People who want to track the > > development or participate in it are expected to access the Git > > repository. > > If you'd like me to check the fix (Stefan's request) > then please consider putting the new text in the bug > thread. Otherwise, you'll just have to do without > my review and feedback, I guess. Not a biggee (the > bug was anyway closed, without such a review). This response makes no sense to me. You don't mind writing the longest email messages ever, but refuse to type a 50-character URL into your browser? Why? But whatever. > If you refuse to put the updated doc string in a bug > thread that asks only for a doc-string fix, then > you're not helping users, or the project, as much as > you could. Copy...paste...send. Simple. No, it's not simple. There's no place to copy/paste from, because installing a change usually doesn't involve looking at the diffs, or even producing them. We edit the sources and commit them, that's it. > (I'd even consider that common courtesy, but you're > by no means obliged to see courtesy the same way, > of course.) Yes of course: everyone has to be courteous to you, but you don't feel you need to be courteous to others. 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Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:08:22 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c0bc:7c3a:292f:8a82]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c0bc:7c3a:292f:8a82%9]) with mapi id 15.20.4544.020; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:08:22 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#17567: [External] : Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' Thread-Topic: bug#17567: [External] : Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' Thread-Index: AQHXskcJ6+pgkTQ8D0qaKmEfL6TRWau1LMIQ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:08:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> <83lf3kpkdt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ee9cpjao.fsf@gnu.org> <835yuoph36.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <835yuoph36.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnu.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gnu.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 688ea986-3e64-4cb3-f9b7-08d980689bc2 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR10MB4051: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 688ea986-3e64-4cb3-f9b7-08d980689bc2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Sep 2021 21:08:22.7169 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: pwWDFMUwj+lgVmUybBimSvKn6e+xZEl0f80AECeeScY3FAeWkgQ+Hor7hsWc77VkqyW2KHeAxOBl9ze8rXnC+g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR10MB4051 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10118 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2109250160 X-Proofpoint-GUID: m_iJiioXXNFBCTc-1M7Rzs_1-8MGw4GB X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: m_iJiioXXNFBCTc-1M7Rzs_1-8MGw4GB X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: "stefan@marxist.se" , "17567@debbugs.gnu.org" <17567@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > If you'd like me to check the fix (Stefan's request) > > then please consider putting the new text in the bug > > thread. Otherwise, you'll just have to do without > > my review and feedback, I guess. Not a biggee (the > > bug was anyway closed, without such a review). >=20 > This response makes no sense to me. You don't mind writing the > longest email messages ever, but refuse to type a 50-character URL > into your browser? Why? This response makes no sense to me. You don't mind dragging out this thread, but pasting the updated doc string into the thread, after requesting its review, is too much trouble? Why? Reviewing text starts with the text to be reviewed. And it's often collaborative - back & forth. Doing that in one place is more productive than sending a reviewer off to some diffs somewhere. A typical doc review involves, well, doc, not just diffs. > But whatever. Indeed. > > > If you refuse to do that, you are not helping > > > the project as much as you could have. > > > > If you refuse to put the updated doc string in a bug > > thread that asks only for a doc-string fix, then > > you're not helping users, or the project, as much as > > you could. Copy...paste...send. Simple. >=20 > No, it's not simple. There's no place to copy/paste from, because > installing a change usually doesn't involve looking at the diffs, or > even producing them. We edit the sources and commit them, that's it. It's apparently too hard for someone who's fixed a doc string to look at the edited result (sources) in an Emacs buffer and copy that. OK, got it. It's likewise too hard for me to dig out the diffs and reconstruct the resulting doc string from them, in order to respond to a review request. Not the end of the world, but the end of the review, I guess. Again, I didn't ask to review the fix. (And the bug is already closed. I didn't say a word about that, except "Thanks". I just responded to the review request ("please verify"), with a request for the text to review.) > > (I'd even consider that common courtesy, but you're > > by no means obliged to see courtesy the same way, > > of course.) >=20 > Yes of course: everyone has to be courteous to you, > but you don't feel you need to be courteous to others. I do feel that need. And I try to be courteous, and I want to, even when some, such as yourself, are needlessly aggressive, such as now. And it's not about being courteous to me. Showing the text to be reviewed is, in my world, a normal, courteous part of asking for a review - regardless of who the review is requested from or who's doing the requesting. Asking for a review is asking for help. Unnecessary hurdles make it harder to help. Filing bug reports, just like fixing bugs, is helping, or trying to. We're all volunteers here, though you seem to keep opposing volunteers who fix problems to volunteers who report them. I'm thankful for both the fixers and the reporters. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 27 18:36:29 2021 Received: (at 17567) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2021 22:36:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43072 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUzEa-0000Z6-VH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:36:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54976) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUzEZ-0000Yu-L9 for 17567@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:36:27 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45702) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUzEU-00041Z-65; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:36:22 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUzER-0006VW-HD; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:36:19 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Drew Adams , Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:08:22 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#17567: [External] : Re: bug#17567: 24.4.50; doc string of `define-derived-mode' References: <8e27e542-96e8-4342-a761-8c066fe3d307@default> <83lf3kpkdt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ee9cpjao.fsf@gnu.org> <835yuoph36.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:36:19 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17567 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 17567@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Please, colleagues, defend your positions without persoal antagonism. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:00:13 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator