Subject: bug#1754: 23.0.60; tool-bar is shown with tool-bar-mode off

From: "Drew Adams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:33:32 -0800

> From: martin rudalics Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 2:14 AM
> `default-frame-alist' and `initial-frame-alist' are a mess 
> because these are customizable variables that should not be
> affected by toggling minor modes on and off.

Sorry for the late reply. I wanted to comment on this part, speaking more
generally and not just about these two variables. And I realize that Martin was
saying something particular - I'm not contradicting that.

I just want to say that it can be appropriate for a command, including a
minor-mode command, to change the value of a user option (customizable variable)
- e.g. toggle it. Obviously that happens for the mode variable itself, but that
is not the only case where this can be useful.

There is nothing wrong, in general, with a command or other code changing the
value of a user option, as long as the _documentation mentions_ this behavior.

There is even nothing wrong necessarily with a command saving the new option
value - provided the command's doc calls this out as part of the behavior.

Customize is not the only way to change or save option values, and it shouldn't
be regarded as such. The Customize UI is limited; other commands can offer
alternative, even improved, user interaction in some cases.