From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:31:51 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 16:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 17530 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 17530@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.14005168462377 (code B ref -1); Mon, 19 May 2014 16:28:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2014 16:27:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53305 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQPN-0000cF-Si for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:27:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54297) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQPK-0000bz-Dy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:27:23 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQP4-00005R-TY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:27:17 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:56763) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQP4-00005M-R0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:27:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55907) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQOv-00081D-Te for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:27:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQOn-0008O5-2o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:26:57 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:51073) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQOm-0008Nw-SH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:26:49 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4JGQl85009941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 16:26:47 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4JGQk1v004677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 16:26:46 GMT Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4JGQjHr027652 for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 16:26:46 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 09:26:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) The defcustom type is (repeat symbol), but the doc string says that it should be a repetition of entries like this: 1. The symbol `all' (only). 2. List (NAME VERSION), where NAME is a symbol and VERSION is one of these: t, a string, or nil. So it is currently effectively impossible to customize this option. In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-04-29 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 117031 monnier@iro.umontreal.ca-20140429151607-qnkgbymwfaj5ut= 08 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'' From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:31:51 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 16:34:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17530 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 17530@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17530-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17530.14005171933050 (code B ref 17530); Mon, 19 May 2014 16:34:02 +0000 Received: (at 17530) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2014 16:33:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53312 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQUy-0000n7-NC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:33:13 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:26948) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQUx-0000ms-1L for 17530@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:33:11 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4JGX4fr003092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <17530@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 19 May 2014 16:33:05 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4JGX34J029502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <17530@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 19 May 2014 16:33:04 GMT Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4JGX384012992 for <17530@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 19 May 2014 16:33:03 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <14109062-520b-43f2-81a6-870a43e9d43d@default> Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 09:33:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) And why is the default value `all'? If someone does not customize this or does `package-initialize' in their init file before loading `custom-file' then they might be in for an unwelcome surprise, depending on what packages they have locally. The default value would be better as nil, IMHO. From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:31:51 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Drew Adams Subject: bug#17530: closed (Re: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type) Message-ID: References: X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 17530 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 17530@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 00:30:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1568507402-11084-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1568507402-11084-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 17530@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 17530: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D17530 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1568507402-11084-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 17530-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Sep 2019 00:29:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47248 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9IQF-0002s4-2b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 20:29:47 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f177.google.com ([209.85.210.177]:35085) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9IQD-0002rq-7X for 17530-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 20:29:45 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f177.google.com with SMTP id 205so20246100pfw.2 for <17530-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 17:29:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=i4gb5tnlcgOJ6wBEFuYYxBnmYj4XWtoSLPNBdVuOgnA=; b=arkWFnsyolLUxCagl4KfuX9XzGh2p1FaJfuwfOkwzvFdzLxniAGoSwaBJbhokCMx4X EyHnqGmAWRFfqiWMtp2gvcwG6BwhSgsVJ44MyXMqEL83hGl/9fqJ+/Sos/A9E7Van04q I4ClU8n9kYdXI2eY+G+vZpmmX7oQpFrmEv9jZf1EO7R72af5zxApSvD6tyONKcCazIyE HSV9ZRFQg5O1IuYxzxv3HrRj5ZgxlN1pTOuUHxFkR360Y5P+LtA2N3iLCvXyzWVHaZAG BzNtg9wbt+scxADR2T8yr/+a4id+jZb+No7GRC7LlPNbKmKe2paqHpNDhUCWTHAZkoGt CelQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV+sZpe9qzlPiuCQhC4ARiXUcEFoTSedvtUgc+wxR4YkVV8qmpS YNpsfLtXVBs3vaX8lgGMInhudaC4T831HpDdCOM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwg/S+KAvIhoXp5rxt3rCo8Ki8sal8c9OZ6hlxRKJk/yLgM50t35RT83X4cB+J+kd+h0G3as+zCPb11UG27OYY= X-Received: by 2002:a63:ef4d:: with SMTP id c13mr13246568pgk.200.1568507379342; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 17:29:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 02:29:28 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17530-done Cc: 17530-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > The defcustom type is (repeat symbol), but the doc string says that it > should be a repetition of entries like this: > > 1. The symbol `all' (only). > 2. List (NAME VERSION), where NAME is a symbol and VERSION is one of > these: t, a string, or nil. > > So it is currently effectively impossible to customize this option. This has subsequently been fixed: commit 9be8a2fb41043b4d4734a67f155d6923df10671b Author: Glenn Morris Date: Thu Jan 28 08:58:43 2016 -0800 * lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el (package-load-list): Improve :type. I'm therefore closing this bug report. Best regards, Stefan Kangas ------------=_1568507402-11084-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2014 16:27:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53305 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQPN-0000cF-Si for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:27:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54297) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQPK-0000bz-Dy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:27:23 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQP4-00005R-TY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:27:17 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:56763) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQP4-00005M-R0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:27:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55907) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQOv-00081D-Te for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:27:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQOn-0008O5-2o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:26:57 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:51073) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WmQOm-0008Nw-SH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:26:49 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4JGQl85009941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 16:26:47 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4JGQk1v004677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 16:26:46 GMT Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4JGQjHr027652 for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 16:26:46 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 09:26:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) The defcustom type is (repeat symbol), but the doc string says that it should be a repetition of entries like this: 1. The symbol `all' (only). 2. List (NAME VERSION), where NAME is a symbol and VERSION is one of these: t, a string, or nil. So it is currently effectively impossible to customize this option. In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-04-29 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 117031 monnier@iro.umontreal.ca-20140429151607-qnkgbymwfaj5ut= 08 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'' ------------=_1568507402-11084-1-- From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:31:51 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17530 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 17530-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17530-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D17530.15685560547466 (code D ref 17530); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:01:02 +0000 Received: (at 17530-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Sep 2019 14:00:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48546 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9V5B-0001wL-Li for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:00:53 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:37120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9V56-0001w5-N7 for 17530-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:00:52 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8FDiMVp117522; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:00:41 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=n3HP7OVDzX2ufOu5bZMu3nRncJkWboWRshhMNy28TNY=; b=rmrQo4npQqPpOXyt+pWzCkDIeWMMAzdXe6oXP+Ub/3DtNiIDv1vwwV5zmFVGrS8wMTBm CdRzVlcPcpiawJmva1wlgJPSQM65dbWESHcoykWNDbmwSsZdH7dre6wxAWMgkPyiGmBF 977GAPG6w06doBPtC7cS6WUoVXt5ShjBZM0TIScIlPjSsUw+Qz7ywGR2oR5R+Br2PVkA W3gKuoPBHDBq9Gmr6nBFxRUpFR+z22PZ4g1sdPm7L36zGvPyAPwWlqgE/mXHUyJBW+/3 gGesYQel4WZcTsH8nwP+jEANCbaWY6oQPbqddrOjxEfzad+VwqeOV3chQy5Gbijyd4jV jg== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v0r5p3nfg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:00:40 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8FDgf6c099305; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:00:40 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v0qhmwukh-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:00:39 +0000 Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x8FE0cUI010494; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:00:38 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8828b8fa-29e3-4888-928e-b25c92e4923d@default> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 07:00:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4888.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9381 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909150151 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9381 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909150151 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > This has subsequently been fixed: >=20 > commit 9be8a2fb41043b4d4734a67f155d6923df10671b > Author: Glenn Morris > Date: Thu Jan 28 08:58:43 2016 -0800 >=20 > * lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el (package-load-list): Improve :type. >=20 > I'm therefore closing this bug report. OK; good that the :type spec was fixed. But at least in Emacs 26.3, the default is still `(all)'. For the record, this part of the problem hasn't been addressed: > If someone does not customize this or does > `package-initialize' in their init file before > loading `custom-file' then they might be in > for an unwelcome surprise, depending on what > packages they have locally. > > The default value would be better as nil, IMHO. From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:31:51 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type Resent-From: Noam Postavsky Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17530 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Stefan Kangas , 17530@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17530-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17530.156856187216912 (code B ref 17530); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:38:01 +0000 Received: (at 17530) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Sep 2019 15:37:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48621 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9Wb1-0004Oh-MP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 11:37:51 -0400 Received: from mail-io1-f41.google.com ([209.85.166.41]:46145) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9Wb0-0004OV-Ec for 17530@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 11:37:51 -0400 Received: by mail-io1-f41.google.com with SMTP id d17so51236722ios.13 for <17530@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:37:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=/3+trO6g3Bo7019fY8OVQMK1w0ClUeGLEy7gAEO2BGU=; b=cjCkZKVW7jByKRpOZldmB9wzaMIxn3CRHT3e6rtnv15jUeQHhh3wYthmMH7H1XGBNV b7imB2IJsps1kzzTCj0x1Mp34Sb6mON6zC9ohXHyqBBZoL7HqivfxqXF+i0rgk8t/o2u J75Q8ONov7GXKQHeLOAvr5f6bpGWYmFixY25e1Xsv2cWt8Yy0p6fMHP9iK0qZq/IybrJ deukmaZTJeXAl+1uXRBfkmiQ6lvTo4qjZDmtCLci321o/YKVOJ2pEAIb2lMU5HUSnyrL 4XRzU91xPbzsSOQsbcxSnfGQaETbb/EDc4eMteAyjOhPozuHS6VRKuzsr/52cXstbZ64 A7Wg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=/3+trO6g3Bo7019fY8OVQMK1w0ClUeGLEy7gAEO2BGU=; b=sqGDFhIOq8YEult5VRysZPX2QL5j25mY6RmdZ+byiilwiO79Q/+twBK7Bd14UkiXcM pZLcvZ7io9hJT0pfPuPc83fqJns7mL9YsYQsIHsODsY56zgMAKThv8Raci+BZpza84kv C6qfSDiTUMKNhQCt/XY7zvnmQcT5g8QyM3C9Sz1apFze3iFIaFeuEds9qqy/7rmYNo3X 1qzu9ZPU18sY4vZtfOdshDkgX/OquBjlpohOZIoN3abXP+B8O7lccdWyetFttkbHsAi2 4dm90x/Fci0zzIw0GcgOzr/gyk1TJvHK8wcN1RGbLgJEATh1drq+LoellIyE55UQvgTQ oi3A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXjYiYxKGMPsb6VGCEi68mg/7vWH3GrhP9s40vxDIGDYPcgOAHa 2D83OBsx3ooDLMZvDNJYPZY3m3Lc X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxRQ+JZYubxHdRUlDMU0Y0KQrNKcOlOXgfocg9DUM97WrsDQKJB0cPj/CURgWhQ2/YepPAmyQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8a08:: with SMTP id w8mr11417959iod.243.1568561864691; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minid (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m11sm26201844ioc.42.2019.09.15.08.37.43 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:37:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky References: <8828b8fa-29e3-4888-928e-b25c92e4923d@default> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 11:37:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8828b8fa-29e3-4888-928e-b25c92e4923d@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 15 Sep 2019 07:00:37 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87impta7ug.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > But at least in Emacs 26.3, the default is still > `(all)'. For the record, this part of the problem > hasn't been addressed: > >> If someone does not customize this or does >> `package-initialize' in their init file before >> loading `custom-file' then they might be in >> for an unwelcome surprise, depending on what >> packages they have locally. >> >> The default value would be better as nil, IMHO. A default of nil would mean that no packages are loaded. So pretty much anyone installing packages would have to customize it to `(all)' in order to get their packages working. That sounds like a worse default. From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:31:51 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:28:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17530 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Noam Postavsky Cc: Stefan Kangas , 17530@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17530-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17530.156858284722780 (code B ref 17530); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:28:02 +0000 Received: (at 17530) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Sep 2019 21:27:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48767 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9c3L-0005vL-E8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:27:27 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:50798) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9c3I-0005v2-Uw for 17530@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:27:25 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8FLPXNW063862; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:27:18 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=T6y27LsSy71ZAM3zZX1O8l21ytEXvTaVG4dQFV1rF8g=; b=duMwmqVSGBukf/lZuREKmPHu5+36KI9jnHmrDRd+GDhDDIMBtVdjbpNSzZ8XyBngTV7O aa0ColhOZTOuftgo/LpUt3Ze6wRwh4vpb6eC7nz3C09e4xI/wApM8F/tkTIZjNwFpXKZ p3NooBsLpAnWcZ5ZQMjriQr22bny7n2CMLWQbEMwjjQnspFffxgtNYB+qL+RsvWtfA6+ TcUwPJKD43uaCgnymkpELJGdjUvpg0LSPLGYiEghxBvBaPqaxzQaETC8He+kwpQ2JIyj WPjwXKgX8yVc+/8QNOM/hIi1mmxB5ZLUCuphTV46iige5t9XflUhUuZ1HhatqMzypH87 6g== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v0qmt4afd-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:27:18 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8FLN1dR003442; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:27:18 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v0nb3fg8s-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:27:18 +0000 Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x8FLRGbc020605; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:27:17 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:27:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <8828b8fa-29e3-4888-928e-b25c92e4923d@default> <87impta7ug.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87impta7ug.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4888.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9381 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909150233 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9381 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909150233 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > But at least in Emacs 26.3, the default is still > > `(all)'. For the record, this part of the problem > > hasn't been addressed: > > > >> If someone does not customize this or does > >> `package-initialize' in their init file before > >> loading `custom-file' then they might be in > >> for an unwelcome surprise, depending on what > >> packages they have locally. > >> > >> The default value would be better as nil, IMHO. >=20 > A default of nil would mean that no packages are loaded. No, just by default. No packages loaded by default. > So pretty much anyone installing packages No, anyone who wants to _load_ packages. You would specify/configure which packages to load, yes. Is that outlandish or too restrictive? > would have to customize it to `(all)' in order to > get their packages working. That sounds like a > worse default. Not to me, it doesn't. Just because you've installed some packages doesn't mean you want them to all to be loaded. That's a bit like automatically applying `require' to everything you have in your `load-path'. Why would we assume that, by default, users should load the latest installed versions of all installed packages? Do I feel strongly about this? No. But it seems wrong. From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:31:51 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17530 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Noam Postavsky , 17530@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17530-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17530.156858358624328 (code B ref 17530); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:40:02 +0000 Received: (at 17530) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Sep 2019 21:39:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48776 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9cFG-0006KK-Ck for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:39:46 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f181.google.com ([209.85.215.181]:36094) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9cFE-0006K4-BB for 17530@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:39:44 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f181.google.com with SMTP id m29so2177311pgc.3 for <17530@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:39:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PUt4h2baQi2o7TYUjnyascQsygqks8wht5gHnb/8j7c=; b=rfcDSLT7JDFeNyjF2RNx0QmB4O8cbIc5Mhtrin/M/cCxKHGzZL8TRKnx1RW6+PmV24 B04PTjUlBhEhCAhutcOQRYpMKrOepjnt7742xsVZwGteo3zU0DVEgJ3YcFnTEJQnYG/r h1cxN+pSJXOBXCgYFoSNq2U3Xyh6nIN1uX4gUBaDStkfY+jECDIPrT/cQ7KCu/r9uSxm Ee9+3Y/A3a/SdlCf9ZMjeP6N1JJPduS7tNKuvRzaiPNAoaL6OYxKw295jlIw2+/hGPIk HPadVuaePHn5Qq7OnzRwTzFS0kN2qnfzrtS1gjrtkf0Y1opdtJFQoNc/4c41Rec3Xj54 KfYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWOPuv8nlXdp3906y8NcP52HMLQLY513theE2YmhtxTkjody+fE mpG0AH6QyqCJSgjhNbwDlUgn0EzgvppisXmHF08= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxp8lhygw8oc/R/JtT2cyn/LLPgG6SkSWo2HSNP+bNfME1KflTHnKTOEFv3W6djuXoaAoV76kb36448E7vKh0s= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:1150:: with SMTP id d16mr17871776pje.2.1568583578344; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:39:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8828b8fa-29e3-4888-928e-b25c92e4923d@default> <87impta7ug.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 23:39:27 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Drew Adams writes: > > So pretty much anyone installing packages > > No, anyone who wants to _load_ packages. You would > specify/configure which packages to load, yes. Is > that outlandish or too restrictive? It's too restrictive, yes. You have already specified that you want to use them by installing them. >> would have to customize it to `(all)' in order to >> get their packages working. That sounds like a >> worse default. > > Not to me, it doesn't. Just because you've installed > some packages doesn't mean you want them to all to be > loaded. In this use case you would customize `package-initialize' to only load what you're interested in. > Why would we assume that, by default, users should > load the latest installed versions of all installed > packages? Because that's what most users would expect, I think. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:31:51 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17530 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Noam Postavsky , 17530@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17530-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17530.156858525727719 (code B ref 17530); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:08:02 +0000 Received: (at 17530) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Sep 2019 22:07:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48792 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9cgD-0007D0-Bq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 18:07:37 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:43008) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9cgB-0007Cj-4J for 17530@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 18:07:35 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8FM1VSB065854; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:07:29 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=Zfzgb3l2P/JnhbmCl2tNIZJBvFthLL3EchuhOq8g07U=; b=muDTxkpxeQlp76P5H0kXlWwMG5Pn+dhhTD2mHxtrfAAOTv3EcecLZMJ3M5V4i76KJy24 FRHDmE/msZ6yXJ1W2RXFcoDCN50LJqSKK/8v1SS/s/+faXfeMCQqaQ2n770EzjUtH3LK cAMspTDN5odlqVfNXW3Fiz7i19binAAPotfKMB7BLw9D/iJrz/GEPRiCZdFuurwUgiv6 W9oB8hyetLV2sgCY529b+XlHDDA4zHmtpSs/u8bDCP37qYyk0a7KuqRDvrIR0BQtASd/ i59mgBGI9e9uOUuBZq+etIzJY2llpdpGMqWLB8M2R6OI/pQ8hUeDBAYAnk/aYylui3Jb 3A== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v0ruqc74s-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:07:29 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8FM41N4082851; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:05:28 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v0p8tsvqe-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:05:28 +0000 Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x8FM5R8k015314; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:05:27 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:05:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <8828b8fa-29e3-4888-928e-b25c92e4923d@default> <87impta7ug.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4888.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9381 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909150240 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9381 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909150240 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > So pretty much anyone installing packages > > > > No, anyone who wants to _load_ packages. You would > > specify/configure which packages to load, yes. Is > > that outlandish or too restrictive? >=20 > It's too restrictive, yes. You have already specified > that you want to use them by installing them. Really? How so? Installing isn't loading. Mightn't a user install some packages that s?he doesn't want to load? After all, isn't that the _point_ of this user option? A user might install packages at various times, for various reasons. Why would it follow that s?he wants to load them all by default? Isn't "installing" essentially downloading, compiling, and setting up autoloads? It doesn't imply loading, AFAIK. > >> would have to customize it to `(all)' in order to > >> get their packages working. That sounds like a > >> worse default. > > > > Not to me, it doesn't. Just because you've installed > > some packages doesn't mean you want them to all to be > > loaded. >=20 > In this use case you would customize `package-initialize' > to only load what you're interested in. Customization can work for any use case. That doesn't speak to what the default value should be. It's just as arguable that if you want all then you customize to `(all)'. > > Why would we assume that, by default, users should > > load the latest installed versions of all installed > > packages? >=20 > Because that's what most users would expect, I think. I'm asking why you think that. You don't think that most users would expect that all libraries in their `load-path' should be loaded by default, do you? (I don't.) If you don't, then why do you think differently about installed packages? From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:31:51 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17530 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Noam Postavsky , 17530@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17530-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17530.156858648030288 (code B ref 17530); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:28:01 +0000 Received: (at 17530) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Sep 2019 22:28:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48859 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9czw-0007sR-AZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 18:28:00 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f175.google.com ([209.85.215.175]:44732) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9czu-0007sA-Hs for 17530@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 18:27:59 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f175.google.com with SMTP id i18so18492807pgl.11 for <17530@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:27:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SByWKux0bu7IwyZKA/S2PX1HSJ9Es2tJ2j+obtQffzA=; b=FXbvFprKCbN1mia+1tE8xxegEaAFJWf+t8D5iZTfMdJ9q+XUUHLPyYZAds9RZg+4Ky a6OpIfWppGDBXxY/Q+qCy1HE6Tq6c8ers4EIsWyQkG3PgGszDftqI2XFvbuXDkyDzUKA tU3tgJsm+Nf7bPevkLwq/w7La8ZQ5aXbA7/KiGQ66zXEniiedgGTwczOXGw8vUQ3T7Sf v6hO2qsMEF9uYFo0LZ6Jhy7FKeenARAnYnMggWGMIwsdcqrzGVsk4GkisFiQAOfI19iG uM8JxvytmNp0imIpkHTEdwyOYnQ+D5w3xR7zFHTuXFi+nZZjSJPKkKiybsEZB+i44Tri HQhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXbF5f6qSg6k7KxAPmUPMp75ytFeQ5NxdPrk1N1n6TaetfL3JQu w2i0wg6wEfg14UnoukEfAjnAKh343vFsdrx73hY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw6MpLR5qxpY0Xl0Gg6gjz0ez69+5smbzAOGAky8zT70uVh1L2vbfos3FPrO13uYzWLMIa0bDt77jDzYk51QH8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:8d0c:: with SMTP id c12mr17508601pjo.119.1568586472491; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:27:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8828b8fa-29e3-4888-928e-b25c92e4923d@default> <87impta7ug.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Stefan Kangas Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 00:27:41 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Drew Adams writes: > Really? How so? Installing isn't loading. Mightn't > a user install some packages that s?he doesn't want to > load? > > After all, isn't that the _point_ of this user option? Yes, this defcustom exists to support the use case where a user wants to specify which packages to load. > > > Why would we assume that, by default, users should > > > load the latest installed versions of all installed > > > packages? > > > > Because that's what most users would expect, I think. > > I'm asking why you think that. For starters, it's been the default for a long time. But more importantly, the overwhelmingly common use case is that a user only installs a package that he/she wants to use. That means that it has to be loaded. Of course, some users might install a package for other reasons. Therefore it makes sense to allow them to specify exactly what packages to load. > You don't think that most users would expect that all > libraries in their `load-path' should be loaded by > default, do you? (I don't.) If you don't, then why > do you think differently about installed packages? Well, no, but I also don't think that this is a very good comparison. In this case, you have to specify with a call to require that you want to load it. In the package.el case, you specify it by installing it. Nothing is loaded blindly or unexpectedly. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:31:51 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type Resent-From: Noam Postavsky Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 23:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17530 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Stefan Kangas , 17530@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17530-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17530.15685907075354 (code B ref 17530); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 23:39:02 +0000 Received: (at 17530) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Sep 2019 23:38:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48895 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9e67-0001OI-Aa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 19:38:27 -0400 Received: from mail-io1-f50.google.com ([209.85.166.50]:44764) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9e62-0001Ny-9k for 17530@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 19:38:25 -0400 Received: by mail-io1-f50.google.com with SMTP id j4so74620319iog.11 for <17530@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 16:38:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=oygnPyrv+n9/CylFq+CudQtIzioO9Nac0O7Y3RUAjP4=; b=pihd0A9fAE7/KInYPa2dqIjbjpUqJjhnND1JYGcxD4UbXljAnXfQpS10hAnZx2OTiG UsKP8/1r/Eohsioe5KoSeEVRI1TpPBFdIOBdwFgAXolsHoZOoyDuFGac/m5C9+mhBCQD jbJhIoIuwx+PUQrDfInAo6DVsK43di0Icsrq70ZkoSCDBTymTa0l9KcGyfoZ1+T+VDhj OUc4Nhvwa1PvWb92m5HIKHG5EI3ZtrtErvLZrqPfLulUP0mv72gx47mN0Y7XuI02g7Xj djGzwVko2+vANb5QqPu5isedfYD2IrrJv/jdDV+J8oVWGGHZrhGUg9TLvyCk1Huu1vxB 2S8Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=oygnPyrv+n9/CylFq+CudQtIzioO9Nac0O7Y3RUAjP4=; b=Os+qsR5LgKdlh1DVeogeELJDicyDMy+f3P8m8EVynMtUGBQej3apQhrOqmVjpZSyqe mYY+sFux1prQLZPTH0Y8A/PxWVQ5MoYUUcYDluOERmBXstVSYw8dtOb2KBpLfFfM4DLJ wxv3yiu3ZhYmU3NpDubkbZMjpeo87MdA5ealrqN1rOjINjb5BKYkrdyCL8J7gdNlhKGG EzSZBe9sV01A5zDyrJL8prcl4QH51o3o7Q2JsUMB63UmXFUpeIdtGMy2IdXOGTXPCjhd HzTdkX59JzsAT0XxixW86Qce0IakOgqCB/gOGNIESv7TZ7s6fJGplYkiML5zM/+oqKXb zwcg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWpUkJCUEUs4Z6ZhoFween+qD+SoGYGzydMQSZEm3W2H3nyeKY1 ME5UA2UuzQxUSWqNUc3GXNZkyySs X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxiQv25ay5jWkldsiHSUWYUQgJVFN9BuNMdUQoW5nFEvuOFDmnlxFZc7SHeJD1TG3lel1XxOQ== X-Received: by 2002:a02:ab82:: with SMTP id t2mr430865jan.72.1568590696513; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 16:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minid (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 197sm20316080ioc.78.2019.09.15.16.38.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 16:38:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky References: <8828b8fa-29e3-4888-928e-b25c92e4923d@default> <87impta7ug.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 19:38:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:05:25 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87ftkx9lll.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > Isn't "installing" essentially downloading, compiling, > and setting up autoloads? It doesn't imply loading, > AFAIK. package-load-list controls the "setting up autoloads" (and load-path) part. From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:31:51 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17530: 24.4.50; `package-load-list': incorrect defcustom type Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 01:19:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17530 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Noam Postavsky Cc: Stefan Kangas , 17530@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17530-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17530.156859671215712 (code B ref 17530); Mon, 16 Sep 2019 01:19:01 +0000 Received: (at 17530) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2019 01:18:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48947 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9fex-00045M-Mu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:18:31 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:50598) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9fev-000458-D7 for 17530@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:18:29 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8G1DmIS007475; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 01:18:23 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=nN9+Lkrsagl5kaPiGMbZLk0z9w8OV/1DE8zuClLKvUs=; b=IyC3ao2MCnwbBPEJeMLw1nekb/Xe9+hGG1D6tvJO2L2jJ2yyvHt76VeKmQl94wdnPjqE 817MHbWSCv3AbiN8T+hyO2SHsnV0DQjrg8TTLOZl/eEvD59b0lQlL+oypIyfVOKfVnvj dHoWZQJfffhpm+R18rHkRfrOXyeFxaqL+Hfkdxi5dRssj+vglBtYx7vTlXVHEFJuG08T kMrRiSHvKH4SEKY0ng9V7ruhnadiAmreMa3m7yWnGAzEcHgQkj46+EIzcWv0T9Za4C7q +8/feq5I6l5SMGImBxWkiC3C4iIfZFZFzuoNm0Ky/bRouQxClmcdpEXOtlMLT0+MdiIJ OA== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v0qmt4kk7-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 Sep 2019 01:18:23 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8G1IFeC181680; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 01:18:22 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v0p8twf0k-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 Sep 2019 01:18:22 +0000 Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x8G1IKFX010426; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 01:18:20 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <385c8973-7841-4972-92ba-5c5af4812e8c@default> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 18:18:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <8828b8fa-29e3-4888-928e-b25c92e4923d@default> <87impta7ug.fsf@gmail.com> <87ftkx9lll.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87ftkx9lll.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4888.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9381 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909160012 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9381 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909160011 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Isn't "installing" essentially downloading, compiling, > > and setting up autoloads? It doesn't imply loading, > > AFAIK. N> package-load-list controls the "setting up autoloads" (and load-path) N> part. OK. S> the overwhelmingly common use case is that a user S> only installs a package that he/she wants to use. OK. I'll take your word for it. But it's not what I expected. I'm no expert on package.el or how most people use it. It seemed odd to me that just installing should, by default, also automatically load everything installed. But I guess that's a misunderstanding on my part. I use `load-path' and `require', and I've put tons of stuff in my `load-path' that I rarely, if ever, load. I imagined that many package users would similarly install stuff they don't want to load systematically.