GNU bug report logs - #17476
24.3.91; [PATCH] unimplemented info entry

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Shigeru Fukaya <shigeru.fukaya <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.3.91; [PATCH] unimplemented info entry
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 00:54:29 +0900

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Emacs info doesn't recognize info file entries without parentheses in
dir node.  In Cygwin, libc and libm entries in dir are just like:;

* libc::            The ANSI C library.
* libm::            An ANSI-C conforming mathematical library.

Cygwin info command treat them as info files.
With the attached patch, Emacs regards the above format in a dir node
as info file names.

-- Shigeru

[info.diff (application/octet-stream, attachment)]

Message #8 received at 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Shigeru Fukaya <shigeru.fukaya <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#17476: 24.3.91; [PATCH] unimplemented info entry
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 19:54:05 +0300

> From: Shigeru Fukaya <shigeru.fukaya <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 00:54:29 +0900
> 
> Emacs info doesn't recognize info file entries without parentheses in
> dir node.  In Cygwin, libc and libm entries in dir are just like:;
> 
> * libc::            The ANSI C library.
> * libm::            An ANSI-C conforming mathematical library.

This is invalid Info.  Please ask Cygwin maintainers to fix that.

> Cygwin info command treat them as info files.

No, it doesn't.  A reference such as 'foo::' is parsed as a _node_
named "foo" in the 'dir' file.  Info then searches for such a node in
the file 'dir', and doesn't find it.  It then falls back on a kludgy
feature, whereby typing "info foo" from the shell prompt looks for a
_file_ 'foo' or 'foo.info', on the assumption that the
bozo^H^H^H^Huser forgot to type -f, as in "info -f foo".

IOW, the above dir file abuses a kludge in the Info reader introduced
to shut up all those who complain because they cannot be bothered to
invoke the reader as prescribed in the documentation.

In any case, this kludge is for invoking the Info reader from the
shell prompt, not for navigating inside Info files.  IOW, this is
actually a buglet in Info, which therefore can disappear without
notice.

> With the attached patch, Emacs regards the above format in a dir node
> as info file names.

This patch is incorrect.  It treats the dir file specially, whereas it
is simply an Info file with a menu, and nothing prevents the Cygwin
maintainers from putting such menu items in any other Info files.
More importantly, it tramps on a useful feature, whereby a reference
such as "foo::" is actually a shortcut for "(dir)foo::".

So I hope we will not accept this change.

But thanks for reporting the problem and for working on it.

Message #11 received at 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: shigeru.fukaya <at> gmail.com
Cc: 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#17476: 24.3.91; [PATCH] unimplemented info entry
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 20:34:59 +0300

> Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 19:54:05 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > Cygwin info command treat them as info files.
> 
> No, it doesn't.  A reference such as 'foo::' is parsed as a _node_
> named "foo" in the 'dir' file.  Info then searches for such a node in
> the file 'dir', and doesn't find it.  It then falls back on a kludgy
> feature, whereby typing "info foo" from the shell prompt looks for a
> _file_ 'foo' or 'foo.info', on the assumption that the
> bozo^H^H^H^Huser forgot to type -f, as in "info -f foo".
> 
> IOW, the above dir file abuses a kludge in the Info reader introduced
> to shut up all those who complain because they cannot be bothered to
> invoke the reader as prescribed in the documentation.
> 
> In any case, this kludge is for invoking the Info reader from the
> shell prompt, not for navigating inside Info files.  IOW, this is
> actually a buglet in Info, which therefore can disappear without
> notice.
> 
> > With the attached patch, Emacs regards the above format in a dir node
> > as info file names.
> 
> This patch is incorrect.  It treats the dir file specially, whereas it
> is simply an Info file with a menu, and nothing prevents the Cygwin
> maintainers from putting such menu items in any other Info files.
> More importantly, it tramps on a useful feature, whereby a reference
> such as "foo::" is actually a shortcut for "(dir)foo::".
> 
> So I hope we will not accept this change.

Maybe I should explain why I'm so agitated about this.  You see, I
wrote the code which is responsible for interpreting "foo::" as a
reference to a file "foo" if there's no menu item by that name.  I
wrote that code, under protest, more than 12 years ago, only because
the head maintainer asked for that, in order to stop complaints that
"info SOMETHING" didn't show the manual for that SOMETHING.

So imagine how I feel 12 years later when I see that a kludge
concocted in order to cater to some user sloppiness is now treated as
a first-class feature, and Emacs is requested to follow suit.

Sorry if my response sounded harsh.

Message #14 received at 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Shigeru Fukaya <shigeru.fukaya <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#17476: 24.3.91; [PATCH] unimplemented info entry
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 02:53:10 +0900

>This is invalid Info.  Please ask Cygwin maintainers to fix that.

It's valid, maybe even in non-dir nodes.

(Info-goto-node "(texinfo)Less Cluttered Menu Entry" nil)


-- Shigeru

Message #17 received at 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Shigeru Fukaya <shigeru.fukaya <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#17476: 24.3.91; [PATCH] unimplemented info entry
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 03:20:27 +0900

>>This is invalid Info.  Please ask Cygwin maintainers to fix that.
>
>It's valid, maybe even in non-dir nodes.
>
>(Info-goto-node "(texinfo)Less Cluttered Menu Entry" nil)

I forgot (texinfo) is not in Emacs distribution.
The contents is below.


7.4 Less Cluttered Menu Entry
=============================

When the menu entry name and node name are the same, you can write the
name immediately after the asterisk and space at the beginning of the
line and follow the name with two colons.

  For example, write

     * Name::                        DESCRIPTION

instead of

     * Name: Name.                   DESCRIPTION

  We recommend using the node name for the menu entry name whenever
possible, since it reduces visual clutter in the menu.



-- Shigeru

Message #20 received at 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Shigeru Fukaya <shigeru.fukaya <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#17476: 24.3.91; [PATCH] unimplemented info entry
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 21:30:22 +0300

> From: Shigeru Fukaya <shigeru.fukaya <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 02:53:10 +0900
> 
> >This is invalid Info.  Please ask Cygwin maintainers to fix that.
> 
> It's valid, maybe even in non-dir nodes.

Valid, assuming the menu item is a _node_ name:

  When the menu entry name and node name are the same, you can write the
  name immediately after the asterisk and space at the beginning of the
  line and follow the name with two colons.

    For example, write

       * Name::                        DESCRIPTION

  instead of

       * Name: Name.                   DESCRIPTION

As you see, "Name" here is the name of a node, not of a file.

What is invalid is to write

  * foobar::

and assume that Info will look for a _file_ named "foobar".

Message #23 received at 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
To: Shigeru Fukaya <shigeru.fukaya <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 17476 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#17476: 24.3.91; [PATCH] unimplemented info entry
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 21:01:13 +0200

Shigeru Fukaya <shigeru.fukaya <at> gmail.com> writes:

>>This is invalid Info.  Please ask Cygwin maintainers to fix that.
>
> It's valid, maybe even in non-dir nodes.

But the entry doesn't point to an existing node.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

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