Subject: RE: bug#17362: 24.4.50; inconsistent key notation: `ESC' vs `<ESC>'

From: Drew Adams <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:12:22 -0700 (PDT)

> I'm not talking about help, I'm only talking about the manual.  The
> bug report was about inconsistencies in the manual.  At least that's
> how I perceived it, and that's the only issue I set out to fix.

Yes, thank you for that.

> > > > Seems like that would be a big change from the past and a change
> > > > from how Emacs itself communicates with users.  AFAIK, Emacs
> > > > writes <delete> for the Delete key etc.  The rule for function
> > > > keys and pseudo function keys has always been to use lowercase
> > > > (in angle brackets), no?
> > >
> > > Yes, because they are symbols.  I did nothing about symbols, of
> > > course.
> >
> > What does that mean?
> 
> Which part is unclear?

Apparently you agree that the rule for function keys is lowercase.
Yet you leave some of them capitalized or uppercase?  And the reason
is because those that you make lowercase are symbols?

> > Emacs writes <backspace>.  Why write <BACKSPACE>?  Emacs writes
> > <delete>.  Why write Delete or <Delete>?
> 
> See the guidelines I used to decide on names and capitalization, I
> tried to explain why I choose this or that convention.

The convention used should be the one that Emacs itself uses to
write key sequences.

(And yes, this discussion is outside this bug report.  I did not
ask in the report that you fix all key-sequence inconsistencies in
the manual.  But that's what the current discussion is about.
That and the inconsistencies between the notations in the manual
and the notation in the Emacs UI.

> > My point is that the manual should write key sequences the same way
> > Emacs writes them interactively, e.g., in help output.  It does not
> > refer to a <BACKSPACE> key or a Backspace key or a <CNTL>, <Control>,
> > Control, or Ctrl key.  Emacs help writes <backspace> and C- in key
> > sequences.
> 
> If that's the issue, then (a) it was nowhere clear from your original
> bug report, and (b) I will have nothing to do with it, sorry.  I don't
> care enough about it to work on that.

1. Yes, it is outside this bug report.
2. Too bad you are not interested in it, but so be it.

> I only fixed inconsistencies in the manual, without any relation to
> what Emacs says in help mode.

You fixed only some inconsistencies in the manual, but that is OK
for this bug report.  It is inconsistent to use <BACKSPACE> sometimes
and <Backspace> other times, <DELETE> and <Delete>, <left> and <Home>,
and so on.

But yes, beyond inconsistencies within the manual, the larger issue is
to get the manual in sync with the rest of Emacs, so there it uses the
same, single, key-sequence notation.  And yes, that is outside this
bug report.

I am OK with (what I guess is) what you have fixed for this bug report.

> > Do you even agree that key sequences should be written the same way
> > in the manual as in the rest of Emacs?  Do agree that the manual,
> > like the rest of Emacs, should write <C-left> and not C-<left>,
> > <C-home> and not C-<Home>?
> 
> Perhaps it could be nice (although it never bothered me), but I think
> it's close to impossible now, due to various historical reasons.  In
> any case, I'm not going to do anything about this, someone else will
> have to step forward.  I found your complaint about inconsistencies in
> the manual justified, and I fixed that; my job here is now done.

Thank you for that.