From unknown Sat Aug 09 01:11:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17146: 24.4.50; File save with incapable coding system precluded by strange error message Resent-From: Nathan Trapuzzano Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 01:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 17146 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 17146@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.13962309634036 (code B ref -1); Mon, 31 Mar 2014 01:57:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2014 01:56:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57452 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WURSE-000130-0V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:56:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47839) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WURSA-00012Q-13 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:55:59 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WURS1-0004D8-HJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:55:57 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:51156) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WURS1-0004Cu-E2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:55:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49556) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WURRu-0003Fm-CQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:55:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUROn-0003QD-Eu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:52:36 -0400 Received: from gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com ([69.89.25.95]:49461) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUROn-0003JQ-4r for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:52:29 -0400 Received: (qmail 1357 invoked by uid 0); 31 Mar 2014 01:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmgw2) (10.0.90.83) by gproxy1.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2014 01:52:21 -0000 Received: from host393.hostmonster.com ([66.147.240.193]) by cmgw2 with id k1sG1n0014B3kjm011sKBu; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:52:20 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=QsvNgzCd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=GZ6qK+eS4AuCRVUKGEKC+Q==:117 a=GZ6qK+eS4AuCRVUKGEKC+Q==:17 a=DsvgjBjRAAAA:8 a=f5113yIGAAAA:8 a=4GsTxW34auoA:10 a=V3rOBEuqGYgA:10 a=lfvU_ReahkwA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=ngU5ixn2AAAA:8 a=fWyWhr6xdMwA:10 a=HXrY-tHlR6Z16vt7EMkA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=K8ES0Y797mIA:10 a=ACjNn_Y35MUA:10 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nbtrap.com; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=F95ybyWbjjzIUlG6X/CrvmUnhEd9Y0I5LI71bupEaZg=; b=j6ShiIVsK/YiAzxLftgnEWZx86LmALUR83vxMiqtPmrxl7s69dJvH1cshxfi4q7Bokmn44ALyuoIb2rklQNIY38RGlRBuFZUOLLhgGJ4ozWsla0eyvnGQTgt7QiW6+lg; Received: from [50.90.253.209] (port=44260 helo=Nathan-GNU) by host393.hostmonster.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:CAMELLIA128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WUROa-0006uP-N2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:52:16 -0600 From: Nathan Trapuzzano Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:52:13 -0400 Message-ID: <87ha6fyw1e.fsf@nbtrap.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Identified-User: {1585:host393.hostmonster.com:nbtrapco:nbtrap.com} {sentby:smtp auth 50.90.253.209 authed with nbtrap@nbtrap.com} X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) On trunk: emacs -nw -q file.txt M-: (insert "=CE=BC\xc1") C-x C-s This throws a "make-text-button" error "Unknown button type `help-xref'". And it doesn't save. I believe it should ask which coding system I want to use to write to disk. From unknown Sat Aug 09 01:11:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17146: 24.4.50; File save with incapable coding system precluded by strange error message Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17146 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Nathan Trapuzzano Cc: 17146@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 17146-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17146.139627896122524 (code B ref 17146); Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 17146) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2014 15:16:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58007 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WUdwO-0005rB-7k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:16:00 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:41683) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WUdwK-0005qx-Pm for 17146@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:15:58 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N3B000003M27500@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 17146@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:15:54 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N3B00NK73QI3250@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:15:54 +0300 (IDT) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:16:00 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87ha6fyw1e.fsf@nbtrap.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83lhvqcsb3.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: <87ha6fyw1e.fsf@nbtrap.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Nathan Trapuzzano > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:52:13 -0400 > > On trunk: > > emacs -nw -q file.txt > M-: (insert "μ\xc1") > C-x C-s > > This throws a "make-text-button" error "Unknown button type > `help-xref'". And it doesn't save. I believe it should ask which > coding system I want to use to write to disk. (The -nw part is not needed to reproduce the problem.) This is because of this commit: ------------------------------------------------------------ revno: 116839 fixes bug: http://debbugs.gnu.org/16038 committer: Leo Liu branch nick: trunk timestamp: Sat 2014-03-22 08:13:46 +0000 message: * help.el (temp-buffer-setup-hook): Remove help-mode-setup. (temp-buffer-show-hook): Remove help-mode-finish. This change is backward-incompatible, but is not in NEWS for some reason. Needless to say, the canonical way of fixing the fallout is not described in NEWS. Are functions that need Help mode supposed to let-bind these hooks? If so, the patch below should fix the problem. In any case, please document the change and the way to adapt to it in NEWS. --- lisp/international/mule-cmds.el~ 2014-01-01 10:46:07 +0200 +++ lisp/international/mule-cmds.el 2014-03-31 08:53:35 +0300 @@ -703,6 +703,8 @@ (let ((window-configuration (current-window-configuration)) (bufname (buffer-name)) + (temp-buffer-setup-hook 'help-mode-setup) + (temp-buffer-show-hook 'help-mode-finish) coding-system) (save-excursion ;; If some defaults are unsafe, make sure the offending From unknown Sat Aug 09 01:11:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17146: 24.4.50; File save with incapable coding system precluded by strange error message Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17146 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Nathan Trapuzzano Cc: 17146@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 17146-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17146.139627986224001 (code B ref 17146); Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:32:02 +0000 Received: (at 17146) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2014 15:31:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58014 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeAv-0006Ev-3m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:31:01 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27221) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeAs-0006Ek-1m for 17146@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:30:58 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s2VFUtU3018038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:30:56 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2VFUt4Y020060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:30:55 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2VFUsUK018208; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:30:54 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 08:30:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <87ha6fyw1e.fsf@nbtrap.com> <83lhvqcsb3.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83lhvqcsb3.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) > This change is backward-incompatible, but is not in NEWS for some > reason. Needless to say, the canonical way of fixing the fallout is > not described in NEWS. Are functions that need Help mode supposed to > let-bind these hooks? If so, the patch below should fix the problem. > In any case, please document the change and the way to adapt to it in > NEWS. Please see bug #17109. FWIW, this regression really bothers me. This is not the way to make changes. It is fine to introduce and use new macros. And it is fine to deprecate old macros in favor of new macros or functions (which has not even been done here, AFAIK). What is not kosher is to change the behavior of an existing macro, so that it breaks code that uses that macro. This comes, perhaps, from thinking that the distributed Emacs code is the only Emacs-Lisp code, or is the only code that matters. And that comes, perhaps, from an overemphasis on self: core developer vs users/lusers. Such a way of thinking is completely counter to the spirit of Emacs. The core Emacs code that Emacs Dev distributes is only that: a core. The larger Emacs community (*users*) is not only explicity invited and encouraged to extend such code - that is practically the core principle of Emacs itself: user modification. Personally, I have lots of code, in different libraries, that uses `with-output-to-temp-buffer', and that needs to work across multiple Emacs versions. This incompatible change would considerably complicate such code - for no good reason. Even if I am the only one to use this macro (which I doubt), this is not a reasonable change, IMO. I really hope that someone DTRT here. From unknown Sat Aug 09 01:11:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17146: 24.4.50; File save with incapable coding system precluded by strange error message Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17146 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 17146@debbugs.gnu.org, nbtrap@nbtrap.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 17146-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17146.139628127026399 (code B ref 17146); Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:55:02 +0000 Received: (at 17146) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2014 15:54:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58051 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeXd-0006ri-CJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:54:29 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:43979) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeXX-0006rJ-0H for 17146@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:54:24 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N3B004005B7EI00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 17146@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:54:21 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N3B004C65IIDU20@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:54:19 +0300 (IDT) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:54:24 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83ha6ecqj3.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ha6fyw1e.fsf@nbtrap.com> <83lhvqcsb3.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 08:30:53 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 17146@debbugs.gnu.org > > > This change is backward-incompatible, but is not in NEWS for some > > reason. Needless to say, the canonical way of fixing the fallout is > > not described in NEWS. Are functions that need Help mode supposed to > > let-bind these hooks? If so, the patch below should fix the problem. > > In any case, please document the change and the way to adapt to it in > > NEWS. > > Please see bug #17109. FWIW, this regression really bothers me. I read the mailing list, so I'm perfectly aware of that bug and the related discussions. Please don't hijack this bug to hold it hostage to that one. This bug is about a related issue, but one thing it is _not_ about is reverting the change in question. So talking here instead of on #17109 is not useful. From unknown Sat Aug 09 01:11:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#17146: 24.4.50; File save with incapable coding system precluded by strange error message Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 02:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17146 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 17146@debbugs.gnu.org, nbtrap@nbtrap.com Received: via spool by 17146-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17146.139925530630302 (code B ref 17146); Mon, 05 May 2014 02:02:02 +0000 Received: (at 17146) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2014 02:01:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51123 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Wh8Dx-0007sg-L8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 May 2014 22:01:46 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:17287) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Wh8Du-0007sO-4Z for 17146@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 May 2014 22:01:43 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4521YdJ031538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 May 2014 02:01:35 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4521Wdo002519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 5 May 2014 02:01:33 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4521WtC018723; Mon, 5 May 2014 02:01:32 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 19:01:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <<87ha6fyw1e.fsf@nbtrap.com>> <<83lhvqcsb3.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<83ha6ecqj3.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83ha6ecqj3.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) > > > This change is backward-incompatible, but is not in NEWS for some > > > reason. Needless to say, the canonical way of fixing the fallout is > > > not described in NEWS. Are functions that need Help mode supposed to > > > let-bind these hooks? If so, the patch below should fix the problem. > > > In any case, please document the change and the way to adapt to it in > > > NEWS. > > > > Please see bug #17109. FWIW, this regression really bothers me. >=20 > I read the mailing list, so I'm perfectly aware of that bug and the > related discussions. Please don't hijack this bug to hold it hostage > to that one. This bug is about a related issue, but one thing it is > _not_ about is reverting the change in question. So talking here > instead of on #17109 is not useful. It is now two months later, the 24.4 pretest is out, and there still has been no follow-up for this "related-issue" bug - or for #17109, for that matter. I was hoping to get some guidance from the fix for #17146, at least. I am still left wondering (a) whether there is an intention to fix what has been broken for Emacs 24.4, and (b) if not, how I will need to go about fixing the damage myself locally. See also bug #17397, which I filed recently. Help commands (seemingly because they now use only `with-help-window') no longer invoke `temp-buffer-show-hook', and this breaks quite a bit for me (whether I use one of my own help commands or a vanilla one). The Lisp manual has still not been updated to reflect all of the changes, AFAICT. It still says clearly, for instance, that `with-output-to-temp-buffer' switches to Help mode, which it does *not* (bug #17109): "Unlike `with-output-to-temp-buffer', however, it [`with-temp-buffer-window'] does not automatically switch that buffer to Help mode." And this text was updated for release 24.4 to add the word "automatically", so presumably someone also paid some attention to its continued claim regarding `with-output-to-temp-buffer'. So ... product bug or doc bug? How to know? AFAIK, there was never any emacs-devel proposal discussed about changing the behavior in this regard - so maybe a product bug. But then again, AFAIK none of the changed "related-issue" behaviors were proposed and discussed either, and at least some of those changes have since been defended as not-gonna-revert - so maybe a doc bug. Although I still hope for a fix to bug #17109 that reverts the changes to `with-output-to-temp-buffer' which effectively neuter it, I have nevertheless changed my code (and it is quite a lot) to use `with-help-window' instead of `with-output-to-temp-buffer' - to try to adapt to the incompatible changes introduced. (This is actually a bit of a mess because the code in question needs to use one or the other of these macros, depending on the Emacs version. Both macros exist also for previous versions, but with different behaviors, etc. Pretty ugly.) Should I also be adding explicit calls to run `temp-buffer-show-hook' here and there, in help commands? If so, what about the vanilla Emacs help commands? Can't a user expect her `temp-buffer-show-hook' functions to continue to be invoked by help commands? The doc string for `with-help-window' sends you off to the one for `with-temp-buffer-window', and that doc says that it runs `temp-buffer-window-show-hook' (not `temp-buffer-show-hook'). Should I be adding my function(s) to that `window' hook also? (But only for the latest release and future, presumably.) The Elisp manual for `with-help-window' says that it "evaluates BODY like `with-output-to-temp-buffer'." Does that imply that it runs `temp-buffer-show-hook'? Not clear - "evaluates like" is pretty vague. Vague is probably OK if the behavior is really the same, but if there are differences then it is not sufficient. Not running the hook would be a difference worth mentioning, IMO. (The changing and growing plethora of similar-sounding macros and hooks is all a bit mind-boggling...) What is the suggested way, or a suggested way, to deal with this incompatible change (or these incompatible changes, depending on how you want to look at it)? I really would like to know. It is not clear to me what the policy is now, or even whether Nathan's bug #17146 and related bugs will be closed as "notabug" or will eventually be fixed. So far, they are still open, but there are plenty of bugs that have languished for years, so that alone doesn't inspire much hope. Hoping for some guidance, information. From unknown Sat Aug 09 01:11:07 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.503) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Nathan Trapuzzano Subject: bug#17146: closed (Re: bug#17146: 24.4.50; File save with incapable coding system precluded by strange error message) Message-ID: References: <838uqgzqyk.fsf@gnu.org> <87ha6fyw1e.fsf@nbtrap.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 17146 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 17146@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 06:21:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1399270863-29661-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1399270863-29661-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #17146: 24.4.50; File save with incapable coding system precluded by strang= e error message which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 17146@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 17146: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D17146 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1399270863-29661-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 17146-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2014 06:20:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51189 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WhCGn-0007hp-TX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 May 2014 02:20:58 -0400 Received: from mtaout29.012.net.il ([80.179.55.185]:57382) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WhCGk-0007hV-C1 for 17146-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 May 2014 02:20:55 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout29.012.net.il by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N530090083TBC00@mtaout29.012.net.il> for 17146-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 May 2014 09:21:58 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N5300O8O8CMDGB0@mtaout29.012.net.il>; Mon, 05 May 2014 09:21:58 +0300 (IDT) Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 09:20:51 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#17146: 24.4.50; File save with incapable coding system precluded by strange error message In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <838uqgzqyk.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ha6fyw1e.fsf@nbtrap.com> <83lhvqcsb3.fsf@gnu.org> <83ha6ecqj3.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17146-done Cc: 17146-done@debbugs.gnu.org, nbtrap@nbtrap.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 19:01:34 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: nbtrap@nbtrap.com, 17146@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > This change is backward-incompatible, but is not in NEWS for some > > > > reason. Needless to say, the canonical way of fixing the fallout is > > > > not described in NEWS. Are functions that need Help mode supposed to > > > > let-bind these hooks? If so, the patch below should fix the problem. > > > > In any case, please document the change and the way to adapt to it in > > > > NEWS. > > > > > > Please see bug #17109. FWIW, this regression really bothers me. > > > > I read the mailing list, so I'm perfectly aware of that bug and the > > related discussions. Please don't hijack this bug to hold it hostage > > to that one. This bug is about a related issue, but one thing it is > > _not_ about is reverting the change in question. So talking here > > instead of on #17109 is not useful. > > It is now two months later, the 24.4 pretest is out, and there still > has been no follow-up for this "related-issue" bug - or for #17109, > for that matter. I was hoping to get some guidance from the fix for > #17146, at least. #17146 (this bug) is no longer present in the current pretest. So I'm going to mark this bug "done". > I am still left wondering (a) whether there is an intention > to fix what has been broken for Emacs 24.4, and (b) if not, how > I will need to go about fixing the damage myself locally. > > See also bug #17397, which I filed recently. Help commands > (seemingly because they now use only `with-help-window') no longer > invoke `temp-buffer-show-hook', and this breaks quite a bit for me > (whether I use one of my own help commands or a vanilla one). > > The Lisp manual has still not been updated to reflect all of the > changes, AFAICT. It still says clearly, for instance, that > `with-output-to-temp-buffer' switches to Help mode, which it > does *not* (bug #17109): > > "Unlike `with-output-to-temp-buffer', however, it > [`with-temp-buffer-window'] does not automatically switch > that buffer to Help mode." > > And this text was updated for release 24.4 to add the word > "automatically", so presumably someone also paid some attention > to its continued claim regarding `with-output-to-temp-buffer'. This part of the discussion should probably be elsewhere, maybe in #17109, maybe in a separate bug report (with new details about the signs of damage you see in your code). ------------=_1399270863-29661-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2014 01:56:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57452 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WURSE-000130-0V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:56:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47839) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WURSA-00012Q-13 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:55:59 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WURS1-0004D8-HJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:55:57 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:51156) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WURS1-0004Cu-E2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:55:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49556) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WURRu-0003Fm-CQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:55:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUROn-0003QD-Eu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:52:36 -0400 Received: from gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com ([69.89.25.95]:49461) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUROn-0003JQ-4r for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:52:29 -0400 Received: (qmail 1357 invoked by uid 0); 31 Mar 2014 01:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmgw2) (10.0.90.83) by gproxy1.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2014 01:52:21 -0000 Received: from host393.hostmonster.com ([66.147.240.193]) by cmgw2 with id k1sG1n0014B3kjm011sKBu; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:52:20 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=QsvNgzCd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=GZ6qK+eS4AuCRVUKGEKC+Q==:117 a=GZ6qK+eS4AuCRVUKGEKC+Q==:17 a=DsvgjBjRAAAA:8 a=f5113yIGAAAA:8 a=4GsTxW34auoA:10 a=V3rOBEuqGYgA:10 a=lfvU_ReahkwA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=ngU5ixn2AAAA:8 a=fWyWhr6xdMwA:10 a=HXrY-tHlR6Z16vt7EMkA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=K8ES0Y797mIA:10 a=ACjNn_Y35MUA:10 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nbtrap.com; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=F95ybyWbjjzIUlG6X/CrvmUnhEd9Y0I5LI71bupEaZg=; b=j6ShiIVsK/YiAzxLftgnEWZx86LmALUR83vxMiqtPmrxl7s69dJvH1cshxfi4q7Bokmn44ALyuoIb2rklQNIY38RGlRBuFZUOLLhgGJ4ozWsla0eyvnGQTgt7QiW6+lg; Received: from [50.90.253.209] (port=44260 helo=Nathan-GNU) by host393.hostmonster.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:CAMELLIA128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WUROa-0006uP-N2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:52:16 -0600 From: Nathan Trapuzzano To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.4.50; File save with incapable coding system precluded by strange error message Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:52:13 -0400 Message-ID: <87ha6fyw1e.fsf@nbtrap.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Identified-User: {1585:host393.hostmonster.com:nbtrapco:nbtrap.com} {sentby:smtp auth 50.90.253.209 authed with nbtrap@nbtrap.com} X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) On trunk: emacs -nw -q file.txt M-: (insert "=CE=BC\xc1") C-x C-s This throws a "make-text-button" error "Unknown button type `help-xref'". And it doesn't save. I believe it should ask which coding system I want to use to write to disk. ------------=_1399270863-29661-1--