From unknown Sat Aug 09 09:32:44 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#17074 <17074@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#17074 <17074@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.4.50; C-j is undefined in Emacs Lisp mode (and RET doesn't indent either) Reply-To: bug#17074 <17074@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2025 16:32:44 +0000 retitle 17074 24.4.50; C-j is undefined in Emacs Lisp mode (and RET doesn't= indent either) reassign 17074 emacs submitter 17074 Drew Adams severity 17074 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 23 17:17:16 2014 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Mar 2014 21:17:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46273 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WRpla-0002bb-SE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 17:17:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39099) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WRplY-0002bS-1B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 17:17:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WRplN-0000Yk-RX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 17:17:11 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:36636) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WRplN-0000Yg-OT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 17:17:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40776) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WRplF-0000j0-5V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 17:17:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WRpl4-0000Wt-Tr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 17:16:53 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:28472) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WRpl4-0000Wp-NM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 17:16:42 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s2NLGfbG009256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:16:41 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2NLGdp2002873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:16:40 GMT Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2NLGc6E009614 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:16:38 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <415b0420-c07d-418e-878a-693f1d3f5b9a@default> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 14:16:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.4.50; C-j is undefined in Emacs Lisp mode (and RET doesn't indent either) X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Up until recently, it was bad enough that you, in effect, swapped C-j and RET behaviors. Bad enough, meaning that I needed to use different keys for different Emacs versions, by default. But at least I could do that. In this version, you've gone a step further and eliminated any newline-and-indent binding by default (AFAICT). C-j used to do that. And recently RET had that effect. Now neither key does it. And C-j isn't even bound by default! Please stop this madness. Could you please return to the behavior that Emacs has always had in this regard: C-j to insert a newline and indent, RET to just insert a newline? Or if that's too much to ask, could you please revert to what you had recently, so I can at least get newline-and-indent by hitting RET instead of C-j? Yes, I can customize things, once you stop changing things and I figure out what the right way to customize things is. FWIW, NEWS is no help in this regard. You've introduced a regression in longstanding behavior (you will call it an improvement, no doubt), apparently without telling users how to simply get back the previous behavior. Shame. In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-03-21 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 116829 dancol@dancol.org-20140321121023-5tjxtiws6qa4qyod Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK= =3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 23 21:05:07 2014 Received: (at 17074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2014 01:05:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46458 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WRtK6-0002YO-PP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:05:07 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:56523) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WRtK4-0002Xk-9X for 17074@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:05:04 -0400 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id s2O14vO0017248; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:04:58 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 9AC416017C; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:04:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#17074: 24.4.50; C-j is undefined in Emacs Lisp mode (and RET doesn't indent either) Message-ID: References: <415b0420-c07d-418e-878a-693f1d3f5b9a@default> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:04:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: <415b0420-c07d-418e-878a-693f1d3f5b9a@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 23 Mar 2014 14:16:36 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4890=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9362 : core <4890> : inlines <634> : streams <1143604> : uri <1708026> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17074 Cc: 17074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Drew, please get to the point: what is the bug you're reporting? Your subject says C-j is unbound in elisp-mode, but the body is just a long rambling about C-j and RET and how the world will soon end because of all that madness. The trunk code has had C-j unbound (globally, not just in elisp-mode) for a few days right when I forked emacs-24 but that's been fixed. So if C-j is unbound globally for you, you're probably just using a revision from that unfortunate period. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 23 21:17:02 2014 Received: (at 17074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2014 01:17:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46462 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WRtVe-0002rV-9g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:17:02 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:33651) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WRtVd-0002r7-14 for 17074@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:17:01 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s2O1GxlE003821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 24 Mar 2014 01:17:00 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2O1Gww1002945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 24 Mar 2014 01:16:59 GMT Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2O1GwbT022630; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 01:16:58 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5563d023-7a58-4c1d-a6d7-e45c13eafdeb@default> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 18:16:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Subject: RE: bug#17074: 24.4.50; C-j is undefined in Emacs Lisp mode (and RET doesn't indent either) References: <415b0420-c07d-418e-878a-693f1d3f5b9a@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17074 Cc: 17074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) > The trunk code has had C-j unbound (globally, not just in elisp-mode) for > a few days right when I forked emacs-24 but that's been fixed. So if > C-j is unbound globally for you, you're probably just using a revision > from that unfortunate period. You tell me. Does the time of the build I reported fall during that (vaguely expressed) "unfortunate period"? The bug report is quite specific about the build. Why beat around the bush? It's always next to impossible to know whether or not a change such as C-j being undefined is by design. There is in general a lack of proposals followed by discussion, and a lack of help from NEWS (until very near the end). We come across a change and try to guess whether it is intentional. >From my point of view this is a regression. Glad to hear you apparently think so too. But until hearing that, it is not obvious that this is not some new design brainchild. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 23 23:19:38 2014 Received: (at 17074-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2014 03:19:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46588 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WRvQH-0007NS-E8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 23:19:37 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:58326) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WRvQF-0007NK-4z for 17074-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 23:19:36 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id s2O3JXkZ024982; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 23:19:33 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id DD561AE1A3; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 23:19:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#17074: 24.4.50; C-j is undefined in Emacs Lisp mode (and RET doesn't indent either) Message-ID: References: <415b0420-c07d-418e-878a-693f1d3f5b9a@default> <5563d023-7a58-4c1d-a6d7-e45c13eafdeb@default> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 23:19:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: <5563d023-7a58-4c1d-a6d7-e45c13eafdeb@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 23 Mar 2014 18:16:56 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV4890=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9362 : core <4890> : inlines <634> : streams <1143639> : uri <1708111> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17074-done Cc: 17074-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > You tell me. No, you do, I have better things to do with my time. Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 09 09:32:44 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator