From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:55:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#16990: 24.3.50; Return a useful value for motion functions Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 16990 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 16990@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.139456825420417 (code B ref -1); Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:05:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2014 20:04:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33594 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WNSuM-0005JE-2S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:04:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37453) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WNSuJ-0005J6-Qg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:04:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WNSu9-0005ge-IS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:04:11 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:50552) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WNSu9-0005ga-EU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:04:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39068) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WNSu0-0006BV-Gm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:04:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WNStr-0005Yu-R5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:03:52 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:18378) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WNStr-0005Ym-Iw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:03:43 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s2BK3fVw031717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:03:42 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2BK3eF6011968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:03:41 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2BK3eJ3017100 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:03:40 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <45c7f5b6-c217-47ab-8fca-c2ab2f046cff@default> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 13:03:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Enhancement request: Return a useful value for motion functions, when possible. The set of candidate functions for enhancement are motion functions. Yes, each needs to be checked in detail, and handled appropriately. One size does not fit all. A return value choice should be based on what is generally most useful in the context of using the function. This is the promised followup from the discussion for bug #15117. See that thread for more information (relevant functions, possible return values, etc.) In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-03-04 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 116662 kbrown@cornell.edu-20140304190249-6s13s5bwn3un3hfe Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/binary --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK= =3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib' From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:55:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#16990: 24.3.50; Return a useful value for motion functions Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16990 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 16990@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 16990-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16990.14619528557141 (code B ref 16990); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:01:02 +0000 Received: (at 16990) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2016 18:00:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55708 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awCil-0001r7-0z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:00:55 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:47595) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awCij-0001r0-Fc for 16990@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:00:53 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awCig-0000Ya-Ok; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 20:00:52 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <45c7f5b6-c217-47ab-8fca-c2ab2f046cff@default> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 20:00:50 +0200 In-Reply-To: <45c7f5b6-c217-47ab-8fca-c2ab2f046cff@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 11 Mar 2014 13:03:40 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87r3doxpkd.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Drew Adams writes: > Enhancement request: Return a useful value for motion functions, when > possible. > > The set of candidate functions for enhancement are motion functions. > Yes, each needs to be checked in detail, and handled appropriately. > One size does not fit all. A return value choice should be based on > what is generally most useful in the context of using the function. > > This is the promised followup from the discussion for bug #15117. See > that thread for more information (relevant functions, possible return > values, etc.) I seem to recall that this was about you wanting side-effect-only functions to return values? The rest of us were against it, I think. Closing. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 29 14:01:00 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2016 18:01:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55711 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awCiq-0001rP-8w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:01:00 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:47607) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awCin-0001rG-QF for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:00:58 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awCil-0000Yi-Kv for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 20:00:57 +0200 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 20:00:55 +0200 Message-Id: <87pot8xpk8.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #16990 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) tags 16990 wontfix close 16990 From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:55:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#16990: 24.3.50; Return a useful value for motion functions Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16990 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 16990@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 16990-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16990.146195613324876 (code B ref 16990); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:56:02 +0000 Received: (at 16990) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2016 18:55:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55795 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awDZd-0006TA-0Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:55:33 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:23843) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awDZb-0006Sx-2h for 16990@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:55:31 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u3TItOrl026545 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:55:25 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3TItO7J006739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:55:24 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3TItNDR021029; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:55:24 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <08c30b43-f076-476b-9586-742798e6da41@default> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:55:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <45c7f5b6-c217-47ab-8fca-c2ab2f046cff@default> <87r3doxpkd.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87r3doxpkd.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Enhancement request: Return a useful value for motion functions, > > when possible. > > > > The set of candidate functions for enhancement are motion functions. > > Yes, each needs to be checked in detail, and handled appropriately. > > One size does not fit all. A return value choice should be based on > > what is generally most useful in the context of using the function. > > > > This is the promised followup from the discussion for bug #15117. See > > that thread for more information (relevant functions, possible return > > values, etc.) >=20 > I seem to recall that this was about you wanting side-effect-only > functions to return values? The rest of us were against it, I think. > Closing. You seem to recall wrong. There was no "rest of us were against it" - at all. And no, it was not as superficial and general as my "wanting side-effect-only functions to return [useful] values". Please read the Subject line. This is about motion functions - at least some of them, and to be examined on a case-by-case basis. Here's Eli, saying the same thing (in the referenced bug thread) I say in my 2nd sentence of this thread: one size does not fit all, and suggesting reasonable (better) values for two such functions: Why point? E.g., forward-to-indentation could returns the column where it ended up, forward-same-syntax could return the syntax class, forward-visible-line could return the number of screen lines traversed, etc. Once again, the potentially useful value might well be different for each function, and needs to be considered separately for each. There's no "one fits all" here. He clearly was thinking about the question, not just applying a knee-jerk reaction that any suggestion of having a side-effect function return a useful value is silly. He was carefully thinking about what the best value might be for each of the functions he considered. Yes, nil could be a reasonable return value for some such functions. But sometimes a better value is available. This bug is about finding such values and making the functions return them.