From unknown Fri Aug 15 16:24:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#16663: emacs/calc/date Resent-From: Bart Nielsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 03:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 16663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 16663@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.139165735628781 (code B ref -1); Thu, 06 Feb 2014 03:30:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2014 03:29:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51810 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFeN-0007U8-3V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34968) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFeJ-0007Tz-Tq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:13 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFeG-0006a8-3M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:11 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:35194) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFeF-0006Zy-WF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36670) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFeC-0002X1-7H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFe7-0006Xh-Ln for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:04 -0500 Received: from mail-oa0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22d]:48478) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFe7-0006XZ-Ec for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:28:59 -0500 Received: by mail-oa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id i11so1656541oag.4 for ; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 19:28:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=nj9exKVb1aJorhoXOTWk5UATWd8pl3FbKxJFohuVYAM=; b=wqu89OZRWTCGXBRZqcugIS7nCQ2ysqiH5PtplrZhzhC8SXwgfsiROdrYncwnT2omhm fkGu9vaeaZAmTjm0QCARfHKTLNB1CtZVWoam6jsmK+0s1fRsktwF/NjjaFw8U+XoGf8y l4KUHaObyFJstMoIt+2JnJiOr6bTBOzmD79s+hRhdyZ7xtGOb1MMHfCZLeDll+ssKT8+ 6wEnXU8YmnqEfVKlIs/e5GYDcQvW2i8u/1BMyuj9hNxBMoqKGZzKLS+BrYFU/Yx3Juul BRBr0W1tM99pgX9M5a4A+Alc4l+MlPVBtfyyO739c5TkW/uFbbJApc/Y+rCXCCP9+bhD cNFg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.62.199 with SMTP id a7mr126884oes.64.1391657338621; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 19:28:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.161.7 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Feb 2014 19:28:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 22:28:58 -0500 Message-ID: From: Bart Nielsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2190c51545804f1b479e3 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) --001a11c2190c51545804f1b479e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This bug report will be sent to the Bug-GNU-Emacs mailing list and the GNU bug tracker at debbugs.gnu.org. Please check that the From: line contains a valid email address. After a delay of up to one day, you should receive an acknowledgment at that address. Please write in English if possible, as the Emacs maintainers usually do not have translators for other languages. Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug, and the precise symptoms of the bug. If you can, give a recipe starting from `emacs -Q': M-x calc vx 200 100 - '3650*24*3600 * vm t U (What I think I'm doing is creating a vector with 10 year increments, in seconds, and wanted to know if you honored, or don't honor, leap seconds. It appears to me that the answer is no. I'm just surprised to see the additional shift of an hour shift at 1630 - 1640 and 2199-2209. why?) ... <8:00pm Sun Mar 18, 1610>, <8:00pm Wed Mar 15, 1620>, <8:00pm Sat Mar 13, 1630>, <7:00pm Tue Mar 10, 1640>, <7:00pm Fri Mar 8, 1650>, <7:00pm Mon Mar 5, 1660>, ... <7:00pm Wed Nov 10, 2179>, <7:00pm Sat Nov 7, 2189>, <7:00pm Tue Nov 5, 2199>, <8:00pm Fri Nov 3, 2209>, <8:00pm Mon Nov 1, 2219>, <8:00pm Thu Oct 29, 2229>, ... My question was 'and does the conversion include leap seconds'. The answer appears to be 'no', but the 7pm/8pm conversions seem odd. Thanks If Emacs crashed, and you have the Emacs process in the gdb debugger, please include the output from the following gdb commands: `bt full' and `xbacktrace'. For information about debugging Emacs, please read the file /usr/local/share/emacs/24.3/etc/DEBUG. In GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.22) of 2014-02-02 on fc19-home Windowing system distributor `Fedora Project', version 11.0.11404000 System Description: Fedora release 19 (Schr=F6dinger's Cat) Configured using: `configure '--with-xpm=3Dno' '--with-jpeg=3Dno' '--with-gif=3Dno' '--with-tiff=3Dno'' Important settings: value of $LANG: en_US.utf8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=3Dibus locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Fundamental Minor modes in effect: display-time-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t buffer-read-only: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: x c a C-g x r e p o r t SPC b u SPC Recent messages: For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. Quit Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr emacsbug message format-spec rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils time time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) --001a11c2190c51545804f1b479e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This bug report will be sent to the Bug-GNU-Emacs mai= ling list
and the GNU bug tracker at debbugs.gnu.org.  Please check that
the From: lin= e contains a valid email address.  After a delay of up
to one day, you should receive an acknowledgment at that address.

Please write in English if possible, as the Emacs main= tainers
usually do not have translators for other languages.

Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug,= and
the precise symptoms of the bug.  If you can, give a re= cipe
starting from `emacs -Q':

M-x c= alc
vx 200
100 -
'3650*24*3600
*
vm t U


(What I think I'm doi= ng is creating a vector with 10 year increments, in
seconds, and = wanted to know if you honored, or don't honor, leap
seconds.  It appears to me that the answer is no.  I'm j= ust surprised to
see the additional shift of an hour shift at 163= 0 - 1640 and 2199-2209.

why?)

=

...
     <8:00pm Sun Mar 18, 1610>= ;, 
     <8:00pm Wed Mar 15, 1620>,&nbs= p;
     <8:00pm Sat Mar 13, 1630>, 
     <7:00pm Tue Mar 10, 1640>, 
     <7:00pm Fri Mar 8, 1650>, 
  =    <7:00pm Mon Mar 5, 1660>, 
...
=      <7:00pm Wed Nov 10, 2179>, 
 =    <7:00pm Sat Nov 7, 2189>, 
   =  <7:00pm Tue Nov 5, 2199>, 
     <8:00pm Fri Nov 3, 2209>, 
&n= bsp;    <8:00pm Mon Nov 1, 2219>, 
  &n= bsp;  <8:00pm Thu Oct 29, 2229>, 
...
<= br>

My question was 'and does the conversion i= nclude leap seconds'. The
answer appears to be 'no', but the 7pm/8pm conversions seem od= d.

Thanks

If Emacs crashe= d, and you have the Emacs process in the gdb debugger,
please inc= lude the output from the following gdb commands:
    `bt full' and `xbacktrace'.
For inform= ation about debugging Emacs, please read the file
/usr/local/shar= e/emacs/24.3/etc/DEBUG.


In GNU Emac= s 24.3.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.22)
 of 2014-02-02 on fc19-home
Windowing system distributo= r `Fedora Project', version 11.0.11404000
System Description:= Fedora release 19 (Schr= =F6dinger’s Cat)

Configured using:
 `configure '--wit= h-xpm=3Dno' '--with-jpeg=3Dno' '--with-gif=3Dno'
<= div> '--with-tiff=3Dno''

Importan= t settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.utf8
  value of $XMODIFIER= S: @im=3Dibus
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
&= nbsp; default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major= mode: Fundamental

Minor modes in effect:
  display-time-mo= de: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t=
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
<= div>  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t<= /div>
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-= mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-r= ead-only: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
<escape> x c a C-g <escape> x r e p o r t SPC b u SPC&= nbsp;
<return>

Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Quit

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr = emacsbug message format-spec rfc822 mml
easymenu mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231
mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums
mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils time time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc= -hooks
lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-o= pt
fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode register page menu-= bar
rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock = syntax
facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese=
tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian = slovak
czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table= epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs button faces
cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 forma= t
env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable back= quote
make-network-process dynamic-setting system-font-setting
fon= t-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs)
--001a11c2190c51545804f1b479e3-- From unknown Fri Aug 15 16:24:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#16663: emacs/calc/date Resent-From: Jay Belanger Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 04:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Bart Nielsen Cc: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com, 16663@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com Received: via spool by 16663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16663.139165946732547 (code B ref 16663); Thu, 06 Feb 2014 04:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 16663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2014 04:04:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51840 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBGCQ-0008Ss-Tr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 23:04:27 -0500 Received: from mail-oa0-f48.google.com ([209.85.219.48]:35690) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBGCO-0008Sh-8g for 16663@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 23:04:24 -0500 Received: by mail-oa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id l6so1666800oag.21 for <16663@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:04:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:cc:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=OF5O5pAhoibQx2+1G4N4Wa3wOh9UnRrndaQDDI4zS1I=; b=W4NHgyady81URmmwCjbHOAlH/i//yYB1T2skt8LZP+JeaoziHQyyyVc8DQKLD4j3gx 5SEEhHg++1ZdwT4M9QyYSL91W1zOurh2H7TzJ0eg4cznu2m8eAvMWZKRe+yEmUub/4Yx kvIkFKs9vU71VP6JReKLASw2r35UBTmu5zdMVySBQIUGPG9H263CQHE5yaSTlInE+NhD tSyoTwTOK+W/8qRcYs/XtqKRit9UhcJ4E68quFYIcrGtvd6xrSoKDxdXa/DirfhZK7Am fXOQmsMwVoxVXiwIrVKWY+UifhPeZuZAWp9YYBg0uJHb68I4K7xFIfxLgDi1qVPabUGI +pfw== X-Received: by 10.182.250.163 with SMTP id zd3mr4796376obc.20.1391659463680; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:04:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from belanger-home (184-155-87-143.cpe.cableone.net. [184.155.87.143]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nw5sm53780672obc.9.2014.02.05.20.04.21 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:04:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Belanger References: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:03:33 -0600 In-Reply-To: (Bart Nielsen's message of "Wed, 5 Feb 2014 22:28:58 -0500") Message-ID: <87vbwsrip6.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) > (What I think I'm doing is creating a vector with 10 year increments, > in > seconds, and wanted to know if you honored, or don't honor, leap > seconds. It doesn't honor leap seconds. The manual points out: Today's timekeepers introduce an occasional =E2=80=9Cleap second=E2=80= =9D as well, but Calc does not take these minor effects into account. (If it did, it would have to report a non-integer number of days between, say, =E2=80=98<12:00am Mon Jan 1, 1900>=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98<12:00am Sat Ja= n 1, 2000>=E2=80=99.)=20=20 Maybe more importantly, leap seconds are unpredictable. > It appears to me that the answer is no. I'm just surprised to > see the additional shift of an hour shift at 1630 - 1640 and > 2199-2209. > > why?) > > ... These are during daylight savings time: > <8:00pm Sun Mar 18, 1610>, > <8:00pm Wed Mar 15, 1620>,=20 > <8:00pm Sat Mar 13, 1630>, These are not during daylight savings time: > <7:00pm Tue Mar 10, 1640>,=20 > <7:00pm Fri Mar 8, 1650>,=20 > <7:00pm Mon Mar 5, 1660>,=20 > ... > <7:00pm Wed Nov 10, 2179>,=20 > <7:00pm Sat Nov 7, 2189>,=20 > <7:00pm Tue Nov 5, 2199>, These are during daylight savings time: > <8:00pm Fri Nov 3, 2209>,=20 > <8:00pm Mon Nov 1, 2219>,=20 > <8:00pm Thu Oct 29, 2229>,=20 > ... > > My question was 'and does the conversion include leap seconds'. The > answer appears to be 'no', but the 7pm/8pm conversions seem odd. The hour differences are because of daylight savings time. Jay From unknown Fri Aug 15 16:24:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#16663: emacs/calc/date References: In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Steve Allen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 03:04:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 16663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 16663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16663.139174221813936 (code B ref 16663); Fri, 07 Feb 2014 03:04:01 +0000 Received: (at 16663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2014 03:03:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53926 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBbj7-0003ch-N6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 22:03:38 -0500 Received: from hunan.ucolick.org ([128.114.23.233]:47202 helo=smtp.ucolick.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBbfo-0003Xd-4k for 16663@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 22:00:13 -0500 Received: from smtp.ucolick.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ucolick.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA5C2617; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from geneva.ucolick.org (geneva.ucolick.org [128.114.23.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.ucolick.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A03222F9; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from geneva.ucolick.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geneva.ucolick.org (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s1730AI7004642; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:00:10 -0800 Received: (from sla@localhost) by geneva.ucolick.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id s1730AW1004641; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:00:10 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:00:10 -0800 From: Steve Allen Message-ID: <20140207030010.GA4589@ucolick.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-12-10) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 22:03:35 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 8:03:33 PM UTC-8, Jay Belanger wrote: > These are during daylight savings time: > > <8:00pm Sun Mar 18, 1610>, > > <8:00pm Wed Mar 15, 1620>, > > <8:00pm Sat Mar 13, 1630>, > The hour differences are because of daylight savings time. The notion of daylight saving time in the 17th century should be a clue that some underlying concept here is very wrong in the calendar model. Also note that it was 4 March 1674 ( Julian calendar, Old Style corresponding to 1675-03-14) that King Charles II appointed John Flamsteed as the first Astronomer Royal, and the observatory wasn't built until the next year, so before then GMT wasn't even a thing. In this and many other cases of computed proleptic dates the only reasonable interpretation of the time scale is Universal Time (UT, not UTC). There have never been leap seconds in Universal Time, for UT is actually a count of calendar days that can be subdivided into seconds, not a count of seconds that can be integrated into days. -- Steve Allen WGS-84 (GPS) UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB Natural Sciences II, Room 165 Lat +36.99855 1156 High Street Voice: +1 831 459 3046 Lng -122.06015 Santa Cruz, CA 95064 http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/ Hgt +250 m From unknown Fri Aug 15 16:24:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#16663: emacs/calc/date Resent-From: Jay Belanger Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 04:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Steve Allen Cc: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com, 16663@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com Received: via spool by 16663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16663.13917488171426 (code B ref 16663); Fri, 07 Feb 2014 04:54:01 +0000 Received: (at 16663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2014 04:53:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54045 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBdRY-0000Mv-1q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 23:53:36 -0500 Received: from mail-oa0-f52.google.com ([209.85.219.52]:36173) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBdRV-0000Mm-Ox for 16663@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 23:53:34 -0500 Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id i4so3596816oah.39 for <16663@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 20:53:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:cc:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=r6XuU8V4U73/VUdF/76Dg8LWmPC0RG+27BbOMWleA8M=; b=mN9lWNTMo1KtFhV0CoOAcaQKr/U0yauvF5czn9VLJ2lnB78UEpANDPuDZYxcUVrRV+ YOOoR6ZXVqaJ9vbQ4/80YSNfdk/nFPLVFDER3XIea6APXJiAqcGa7cKE0Y3T73ieuSPE HKAdQXVbX3SOBeTOyzVm7J3uDsXya3JaoFyVKsQwLGxO7Q6dFa5yye7ZnL0tIUJ9Lsm9 m3qr804AtWt9Ffn5EZ5E0lOB/U/oBYONqe4TvYviwFhsBnLD2y0e8sFvozI9/rruCfdF 3kv9vGG6+GAu9RWZmrIQae8VtZs4yYl++3mcmUNSmvgMU+ju0mlX/vEvnQTawF4Jqvr4 FrTw== X-Received: by 10.60.51.230 with SMTP id n6mr10803755oeo.35.1391748812930; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 20:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from belanger-home (184-155-87-143.cpe.cableone.net. [184.155.87.143]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id tz10sm7631938obc.10.2014.02.06.20.53.31 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Feb 2014 20:53:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Belanger References: <20140207030010.GA4589@ucolick.org> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 22:52:42 -0600 In-Reply-To: <20140207030010.GA4589@ucolick.org> (Steve Allen's message of "Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:00:10 -0800") Message-ID: <87eh3fh6cl.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Steve Allen writes: ... > The notion of daylight saving time in the 17th century should be a > clue that some underlying concept here is very wrong in the calendar > model. For daylight savings time calculation, Calc only differentiates between before/after 2007. I think Calendar might do the same. I don't know about Calendar, but by default Calc bases its DST adjustments based on the time zone and whether or not daylight savings time is used at all. (Each person could write their own DST function, but that would be a pain.) I don't know whether or not anything too much more sophisticated can be done, but I'll look into it after the next Emacs release. (Perhaps something like a user configurable "DST begins this year" and "DST ends this year"; as far as I can tell, the beginning and end years depend on more than the time zone.) > In this and many other cases of computed proleptic dates the only > reasonable interpretation of the time scale is Universal Time (UT, not > UTC). Could you be more precise? From what I've read, UT isn't precisely defined and UTC is one possible interpretation of it. Thanks, Jay From unknown Fri Aug 15 16:24:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#16663: emacs/calc/date Resent-From: Steve Allen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 05:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jay Belanger Cc: 16663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 16663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16663.13917502653803 (code B ref 16663); Fri, 07 Feb 2014 05:18:01 +0000 Received: (at 16663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2014 05:17:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54053 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBdou-0000zG-M7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:17:45 -0500 Received: from zilan.ucolick.org ([128.114.23.234]:48090 helo=smtp.ucolick.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBdor-0000z6-Ta for 16663@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:17:42 -0500 Received: from smtp.ucolick.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ucolick.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0296928D4; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:17:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from geneva.ucolick.org (geneva.ucolick.org [128.114.23.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.ucolick.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E50A320FC; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from geneva.ucolick.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geneva.ucolick.org (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s175HeWi007059; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:17:40 -0800 Received: (from sla@localhost) by geneva.ucolick.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id s175HeBK007058; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:17:40 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:17:40 -0800 From: Steve Allen Message-ID: <20140207051740.GA6628@ucolick.org> References: <20140207030010.GA4589@ucolick.org> <87eh3fh6cl.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87eh3fh6cl.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-12-10) X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) On Thu 2014-02-06T22:52:42 -0600, Jay Belanger hath writ: > For daylight savings time calculation, Calc only differentiates between > before/after 2007. I think Calendar might do the same. I don't know > about Calendar, but by default Calc bases its DST adjustments based on the time > zone and whether or not daylight savings time is used at all. (Each > person could write their own DST function, but that would be a pain.) > I don't know whether or not anything too much more sophisticated can be > done, but I'll look into it after the next Emacs release. (Perhaps > something like a user configurable "DST begins this year" and "DST ends > this year"; as far as I can tell, the beginning and end years depend on > more than the time zone.) So this math is not only limited to being valid on earth, but also limited to US and Canada subsequent to the 1987 change of the Uniform Time Act? That was not clear given the dates being investigated. I leave all timezone questions to the IANA tz community. > > In this and many other cases of computed proleptic dates the only > > reasonable interpretation of the time scale is Universal Time (UT, not > > UTC). > > Could you be more precise? From what I've read, UT isn't precisely > defined and UTC is one possible interpretation of it. For dates prior to atomic chronometers UT is defined more precisely than the sources of time that were available to most users of civil time. For dates after atomic chronometers it becomes necessary to decide whether the time scale relevant to the problem at hand wants to be based on counting calendar days of earth rotationand subdividing them (flavors of UT), or based on counting SI seconds and integrating them (flavors of atomic time like TAI, GPS), or based on the compromise we now know as UTC where the duration of the second (SI second of cesium hyperfine transition) is unrelated to the duration of the day (a mean solar day of earth rotation). POSIX chose the first of those three yet called it UTC. Piles of details about all these time scales are here http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/timescales.html -- Steve Allen WGS-84 (GPS) UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB Natural Sciences II, Room 165 Lat +36.99855 1156 High Street Voice: +1 831 459 3046 Lng -122.06015 Santa Cruz, CA 95064 http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/ Hgt +250 m From unknown Fri Aug 15 16:24:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#16663: emacs/calc/date Resent-From: Jay Belanger Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 05:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Steve Allen Cc: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com, 16663@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com Received: via spool by 16663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16663.13917509654938 (code B ref 16663); Fri, 07 Feb 2014 05:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 16663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2014 05:29:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54062 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBe0C-0001HX-Ji for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:29:25 -0500 Received: from mail-oa0-f42.google.com ([209.85.219.42]:56830) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBe0A-0001HQ-UM for 16663@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:29:23 -0500 Received: by mail-oa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id i7so3619288oag.15 for <16663@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 21:29:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:cc:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=YMCt+2YkZAK76a+Xdh+sySezk88LIQsVU2bisLASBY0=; b=IezrSUkHUS99SObHVeeHbe+UBaaRqL1XN01+uJvp6a/GKJmmXFMm9hbo+fnY46RaTn RCMrOuUxRw10vlZwzd5mDfxnXENdGb1iGdXEPf5Pejspfuz2weNvUa8zIrcGUzDuYcBn dnvpnVvrg+onk6Z7Lf3gcDABxFAeqpTxSmcEd85MKqqa8FpKuQx2PejGQ0efdj+L/19K wmwHCs/3M39cAymroCyM4uVkfxtsgOVXnHwf9WxJAxc5ACqJh+uoFRkklK5bCFya8I3X VhAMyywlj2lCPMgRR82n5A02GpvNEAx398nOqkZHALubE2IzLwACFTmJqhKcheqvFoDM aP9A== X-Received: by 10.60.123.75 with SMTP id ly11mr10900058oeb.1.1391750962302; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 21:29:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from belanger-home (184-155-87-143.cpe.cableone.net. [184.155.87.143]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id lh7sm20256012oeb.6.2014.02.06.21.29.18 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Feb 2014 21:29:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Belanger References: <20140207030010.GA4589@ucolick.org> <87eh3fh6cl.fsf@gmail.com> <20140207051740.GA6628@ucolick.org> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 23:28:26 -0600 In-Reply-To: <20140207051740.GA6628@ucolick.org> (Steve Allen's message of "Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:17:40 -0800") Message-ID: <87a9e3h4p1.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) > So this math is not only limited to being valid on earth, but also > limited to US and Canada subsequent to the 1987 change of the Uniform > Time Act? The math is good anywhere. You may not like the interpretation of the results, though. >> Could you be more precise? From what I've read, UT isn't precisely >> defined and UTC is one possible interpretation of it. > > For dates prior to atomic chronometers UT is defined more precisely > than the sources of time that were available to most users of civil > time. Which doesn't tell me what UT is. > Piles of details about all these time scales are here > http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/timescales.html For those that want piles of details; I suppose. I was wondering which version of UT you were referring to. At any rate, nothing will be done until after the next release of Emacs. Then I'll check to see how other programs handle DST. Since the original bug report didn't report a bug, I'll close this report. Jay From unknown Fri Aug 15 16:24:18 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.503) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Bart Nielsen Subject: bug#16663: closed (Re: bug#16663: emacs/calc/date) Message-ID: References: <8761orh4l9.fsf@gmail.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 16663 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 16663@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 05:32:04 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1391751124-5377-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1391751124-5377-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #16663: emacs/calc/date which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 16663@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 16663: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D16663 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1391751124-5377-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 16663-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2014 05:31:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54072 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBe2K-0001NZ-Ap for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:31:36 -0500 Received: from mail-ob0-f170.google.com ([209.85.214.170]:42666) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBe2I-0001NR-EW for 16663-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:31:34 -0500 Received: by mail-ob0-f170.google.com with SMTP id va2so3474351obc.1 for <16663-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 21:31:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:references:reply-to:cc:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=0r7npvRdmDWGgEuvSRW8xclBOaPU+j2Fjgibzz2hSeY=; b=BOw7rKoNC16DVNqlQskFCZ6DH+eMvoDsKDZPHh+Ps2Ngklg+d3dr1k2rTGSbJeTXXs hD2BTW98FhyP2d9M9A4ShUk14ovUbn05M/vXvf5nBeG2qxF6OAH7g2kPk/LHaieuFGjK DhOiZRX6LZvXV2pWHnkHvGDj+iXMlXqMYruWGmYjzRS/K+2Gp0bqvXC9XEwkuF7ya+Vp ua9milFlGwTeiZLNOJXjwDD98fzEr8ksZryh1/5Zv34Cww9oOqULuGqJ1z+vrI7L9tX8 Y3Tbg/JTi+EmcETjGD6bOF1SpkG4UpJ3e3ED5hw16z9PRaueHM9yM0H8an/xLgPdrOc9 StwQ== X-Received: by 10.60.45.38 with SMTP id j6mr10986089oem.2.1391751093763; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 21:31:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from belanger-home (184-155-87-143.cpe.cableone.net. [184.155.87.143]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id z5sm7834922obg.13.2014.02.06.21.31.31 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Feb 2014 21:31:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Belanger To: 16663-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#16663: emacs/calc/date References: Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 23:30:42 -0600 In-Reply-To: (Bart Nielsen's message of "Wed, 5 Feb 2014 22:28:58 -0500") Message-ID: <8761orh4l9.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16663-done Cc: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) > (What I think I'm doing is creating a vector with 10 year increments, > in > seconds, and wanted to know if you honored, or don't honor, leap > seconds. It appears to me that the answer is no. I'm just surprised to > see the additional shift of an hour shift at 1630 - 1640 and > 2199-2209. > > why?) This was more of a question than a bug. The question was answered, so the bug report is being closed. Jay ------------=_1391751124-5377-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2014 03:29:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51810 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFeN-0007U8-3V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34968) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFeJ-0007Tz-Tq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:13 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFeG-0006a8-3M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:11 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:35194) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFeF-0006Zy-WF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36670) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFeC-0002X1-7H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFe7-0006Xh-Ln for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:29:04 -0500 Received: from mail-oa0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22d]:48478) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WBFe7-0006XZ-Ec for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:28:59 -0500 Received: by mail-oa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id i11so1656541oag.4 for ; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 19:28:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=nj9exKVb1aJorhoXOTWk5UATWd8pl3FbKxJFohuVYAM=; b=wqu89OZRWTCGXBRZqcugIS7nCQ2ysqiH5PtplrZhzhC8SXwgfsiROdrYncwnT2omhm fkGu9vaeaZAmTjm0QCARfHKTLNB1CtZVWoam6jsmK+0s1fRsktwF/NjjaFw8U+XoGf8y l4KUHaObyFJstMoIt+2JnJiOr6bTBOzmD79s+hRhdyZ7xtGOb1MMHfCZLeDll+ssKT8+ 6wEnXU8YmnqEfVKlIs/e5GYDcQvW2i8u/1BMyuj9hNxBMoqKGZzKLS+BrYFU/Yx3Juul BRBr0W1tM99pgX9M5a4A+Alc4l+MlPVBtfyyO739c5TkW/uFbbJApc/Y+rCXCCP9+bhD cNFg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.62.199 with SMTP id a7mr126884oes.64.1391657338621; Wed, 05 Feb 2014 19:28:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.161.7 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Feb 2014 19:28:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 22:28:58 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: emacs/calc/date From: Bart Nielsen To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2190c51545804f1b479e3 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) --001a11c2190c51545804f1b479e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This bug report will be sent to the Bug-GNU-Emacs mailing list and the GNU bug tracker at debbugs.gnu.org. Please check that the From: line contains a valid email address. After a delay of up to one day, you should receive an acknowledgment at that address. Please write in English if possible, as the Emacs maintainers usually do not have translators for other languages. Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug, and the precise symptoms of the bug. If you can, give a recipe starting from `emacs -Q': M-x calc vx 200 100 - '3650*24*3600 * vm t U (What I think I'm doing is creating a vector with 10 year increments, in seconds, and wanted to know if you honored, or don't honor, leap seconds. It appears to me that the answer is no. I'm just surprised to see the additional shift of an hour shift at 1630 - 1640 and 2199-2209. why?) ... <8:00pm Sun Mar 18, 1610>, <8:00pm Wed Mar 15, 1620>, <8:00pm Sat Mar 13, 1630>, <7:00pm Tue Mar 10, 1640>, <7:00pm Fri Mar 8, 1650>, <7:00pm Mon Mar 5, 1660>, ... <7:00pm Wed Nov 10, 2179>, <7:00pm Sat Nov 7, 2189>, <7:00pm Tue Nov 5, 2199>, <8:00pm Fri Nov 3, 2209>, <8:00pm Mon Nov 1, 2219>, <8:00pm Thu Oct 29, 2229>, ... My question was 'and does the conversion include leap seconds'. The answer appears to be 'no', but the 7pm/8pm conversions seem odd. Thanks If Emacs crashed, and you have the Emacs process in the gdb debugger, please include the output from the following gdb commands: `bt full' and `xbacktrace'. For information about debugging Emacs, please read the file /usr/local/share/emacs/24.3/etc/DEBUG. In GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.22) of 2014-02-02 on fc19-home Windowing system distributor `Fedora Project', version 11.0.11404000 System Description: Fedora release 19 (Schr=F6dinger's Cat) Configured using: `configure '--with-xpm=3Dno' '--with-jpeg=3Dno' '--with-gif=3Dno' '--with-tiff=3Dno'' Important settings: value of $LANG: en_US.utf8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=3Dibus locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Fundamental Minor modes in effect: display-time-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t buffer-read-only: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: x c a C-g x r e p o r t SPC b u SPC Recent messages: For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. Quit Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr emacsbug message format-spec rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils time time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) --001a11c2190c51545804f1b479e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This bug report will be sent to the Bug-GNU-Emacs mai= ling list
and the GNU bug tracker at debbugs.gnu.org.  Please check that
the From: lin= e contains a valid email address.  After a delay of up
to one day, you should receive an acknowledgment at that address.

Please write in English if possible, as the Emacs main= tainers
usually do not have translators for other languages.

Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug,= and
the precise symptoms of the bug.  If you can, give a re= cipe
starting from `emacs -Q':

M-x c= alc
vx 200
100 -
'3650*24*3600
*
vm t U


(What I think I'm doi= ng is creating a vector with 10 year increments, in
seconds, and = wanted to know if you honored, or don't honor, leap
seconds.  It appears to me that the answer is no.  I'm j= ust surprised to
see the additional shift of an hour shift at 163= 0 - 1640 and 2199-2209.

why?)

=

...
     <8:00pm Sun Mar 18, 1610>= ;, 
     <8:00pm Wed Mar 15, 1620>,&nbs= p;
     <8:00pm Sat Mar 13, 1630>, 
     <7:00pm Tue Mar 10, 1640>, 
     <7:00pm Fri Mar 8, 1650>, 
  =    <7:00pm Mon Mar 5, 1660>, 
...
=      <7:00pm Wed Nov 10, 2179>, 
 =    <7:00pm Sat Nov 7, 2189>, 
   =  <7:00pm Tue Nov 5, 2199>, 
     <8:00pm Fri Nov 3, 2209>, 
&n= bsp;    <8:00pm Mon Nov 1, 2219>, 
  &n= bsp;  <8:00pm Thu Oct 29, 2229>, 
...
<= br>

My question was 'and does the conversion i= nclude leap seconds'. The
answer appears to be 'no', but the 7pm/8pm conversions seem od= d.

Thanks

If Emacs crashe= d, and you have the Emacs process in the gdb debugger,
please inc= lude the output from the following gdb commands:
    `bt full' and `xbacktrace'.
For inform= ation about debugging Emacs, please read the file
/usr/local/shar= e/emacs/24.3/etc/DEBUG.


In GNU Emac= s 24.3.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.22)
 of 2014-02-02 on fc19-home
Windowing system distributo= r `Fedora Project', version 11.0.11404000
System Description:= Fedora release 19 (Schr= =F6dinger’s Cat)

Configured using:
 `configure '--wit= h-xpm=3Dno' '--with-jpeg=3Dno' '--with-gif=3Dno'
<= div> '--with-tiff=3Dno''

Importan= t settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.utf8
  value of $XMODIFIER= S: @im=3Dibus
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
&= nbsp; default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major= mode: Fundamental

Minor modes in effect:
  display-time-mo= de: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t=
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
<= div>  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t<= /div>
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-= mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-r= ead-only: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
<escape> x c a C-g <escape> x r e p o r t SPC b u SPC&= nbsp;
<return>

Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Quit

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr = emacsbug message format-spec rfc822 mml
easymenu mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231
mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums
mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils time time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc= -hooks
lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-o= pt
fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode register page menu-= bar
rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock = syntax
facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese=
tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian = slovak
czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table= epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs button faces
cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 forma= t
env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable back= quote
make-network-process dynamic-setting system-font-setting
fon= t-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs)
--001a11c2190c51545804f1b479e3-- ------------=_1391751124-5377-1-- From unknown Fri Aug 15 16:24:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#16663: emacs/calc/date Resent-From: Steve Allen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 05:46:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jay Belanger Cc: 16663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 16663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16663.13917519356789 (code B ref 16663); Fri, 07 Feb 2014 05:46:01 +0000 Received: (at 16663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2014 05:45:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54084 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBeFq-0001lQ-3d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:45:34 -0500 Received: from hunan.ucolick.org ([128.114.23.233]:48264 helo=smtp.ucolick.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WBeFk-0001lC-UI for 16663@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:45:30 -0500 Received: from smtp.ucolick.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ucolick.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374A5280E; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from geneva.ucolick.org (geneva.ucolick.org [128.114.23.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.ucolick.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333D12617; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from geneva.ucolick.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geneva.ucolick.org (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s175jRn1007375; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:45:27 -0800 Received: (from sla@localhost) by geneva.ucolick.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id s175jRha007374; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:45:27 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:45:27 -0800 From: Steve Allen Message-ID: <20140207054527.GA7302@ucolick.org> References: <20140207030010.GA4589@ucolick.org> <87eh3fh6cl.fsf@gmail.com> <20140207051740.GA6628@ucolick.org> <87a9e3h4p1.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87a9e3h4p1.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-12-10) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On Thu 2014-02-06T23:28:26 -0600, Jay Belanger hath writ: > > For dates prior to atomic chronometers UT is defined more precisely > > than the sources of time that were available to most users of civil > > time. > > Which doesn't tell me what UT is. For most practical purposes UT is GMT. > > Piles of details about all these time scales are here > > http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/timescales.html > > For those that want piles of details; I suppose. I was wondering which > version of UT you were referring to. The different forms of UT coincidentally happened to be defined during the same meeting which announced the results from the first cesium atomic chronometer. Before cesium atomic there was just UT. After cesium atomic there was UT0, UT1, UT2, but it hardly matters. Until about 1972 there were fingers-on-hands-countably-few sites with chronometers capable of noting the difference between flavors of UT. -- Steve Allen WGS-84 (GPS) UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB Natural Sciences II, Room 165 Lat +36.99855 1156 High Street Voice: +1 831 459 3046 Lng -122.06015 Santa Cruz, CA 95064 http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/ Hgt +250 m