From unknown Mon Aug 18 00:08:18 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#16528 <16528@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#16528 <16528@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map Reply-To: bug#16528 <16528@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2025 07:08:18 +0000 retitle 16528 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map reassign 16528 emacs submitter 16528 "Roland Winkler" severity 16528 minor thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 23 08:06:26 2014 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jan 2014 13:06:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33057 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W6JzF-0004nX-Op for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:06:26 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56977) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W6JzD-0004nP-OF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:06:24 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W6Jz7-000577-LA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:06:23 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:39751) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W6Jz7-000572-Io for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:06:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58628) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W6Jz1-00089J-Eo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:06:17 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W6Jyv-00054C-Jr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:06:11 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:44949) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W6Jyv-000547-Gf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:06:05 -0500 Received: from 162-229-45-114.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net ([162.229.45.114]:35116 helo=regnitz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W6Jyv-00073Q-39 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:06:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 07:06:03 -0600 Message-Id: <87k3dqg85g.fsf@gnu.org> From: "Roland Winkler" To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.6 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.6 (-----) minibuffer-local-completion-map binds SPC to minibuffer-complete-word and ? to minibuffer-completion-help. It should be possible without too much hackery to run completing-read in a less obtrusive mode where these keys simply insert the respective characters. In GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.4.2) of 2013-10-04 on regnitz Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11103000 System Description: Ubuntu 12.04.4 LTS From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 23 13:03:38 2014 Received: (at 16528) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jan 2014 18:03:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33698 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W6Ocs-0006wT-4g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 13:03:38 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:54464) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W6Ocq-0006wK-96 for 16528@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 13:03:36 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxHA/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOIYZwZgV6DFQ X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxHA/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOIYZwZgV6DFQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="45916472" Received: from 184-175-17-192.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([184.175.17.192]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 23 Jan 2014 13:03:35 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 84CD660286; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 13:03:35 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Roland Winkler" Subject: Re: bug#16528: 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map Message-ID: References: <87k3dqg85g.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 13:03:35 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87k3dqg85g.fsf@gnu.org> (Roland Winkler's message of "Thu, 23 Jan 2014 07:06:03 -0600") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16528 Cc: 16528@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > minibuffer-local-completion-map binds SPC to minibuffer-complete-word > and ? to minibuffer-completion-help. It should be possible without > too much hackery to run completing-read in a less obtrusive mode > where these keys simply insert the respective characters. Indeed, this binding can be annoying. Some people use it heavily (and rarely use TAB, IIUC), tho, so removing it is a bit tricky, but it was annoying enough for files that file-name completion now uses a special map where SPC is not bound to minibuffer-complete-word any more. I can see a few different directions we could go to try and solve those problems: - change the default completion map so SPC is not bound any more. - provide some way to call completing-read, specifying that this particular completion should, just like file-name completion, not bind SPC to minibuffer-complete-word. - change the behavior of minibuffer-complete-word to be more DWIMish. For example, if completion can't be performed (no valid candidates, or no shared prefix among the candidates), instead of beeping, it could insert a SPC. I haven't thought much about ? because that one has not been nearly as annoying. The problem is largely similar, except that the harms are all much less severe (both of the current situation and of the possible fixes). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 23 14:02:40 2014 Received: (at 16528) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jan 2014 19:02:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33717 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W6PY0-00007r-E0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 14:02:40 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:52054) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W6PXx-00007h-JL for 16528@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 14:02:38 -0500 Received: from lukas.physics.niu.edu ([131.156.85.221]:60947) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W6PXx-0005gI-1z; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 14:02:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <21217.26443.949491.134206@lukas.physics.niu.edu> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 13:02:35 -0600 From: "Roland Winkler" To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#16528: 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map In-Reply-To: References: <87k3dqg85g.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.2 trial under 24.3.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) X-Spam-Score: -5.6 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16528 Cc: 16528@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.6 (-----) On Thu Jan 23 2014 Stefan Monnier wrote: > Indeed, this binding can be annoying. Some people use it heavily (and > rarely use TAB, IIUC), tho, so removing it is a bit tricky, but it was > annoying enough for files that file-name completion now uses a special > map where SPC is not bound to minibuffer-complete-word any more. So it seems to me there are two views on this: - there might be situations where the user wants to customize the keybindings provided by minibuffer-local-completion-map (this customization would then probably affect all calls of completing-read) - in other cases, the code calling completing-read might want to provide some non-default keybindings (which would then affect only certain calls of completing-read, but it would apply to all users) I do not know how common each of these cases might be. (I never use SPC for completion, but that's just me.) Roland From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 23 14:16:33 2014 Received: (at 16528) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jan 2014 19:16:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33732 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W6PlR-0000Vz-EI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 14:16:33 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:50276) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W6PlO-0000Vj-2b for 16528@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 14:16:30 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s0NJGS4v004930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jan 2014 19:16:28 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0NJGRf7011969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2014 19:16:27 GMT Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s0NJGRP9011959; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 19:16:27 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 11:16:26 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Roland Winkler , Stefan Monnier Subject: RE: bug#16528: 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map References: <87k3dqg85g.fsf@gnu.org> <21217.26443.949491.134206@lukas.physics.niu.edu> In-Reply-To: <21217.26443.949491.134206@lukas.physics.niu.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16528 Cc: 16528@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) FWIW, in Icicles: 1. All of these keys are self-inserting: SPC, ?, C-j. 2. A separate key is used to word-complete: M-SPC, not TAB. IOW, for word completion, just use a different key. (I would request that you do not use any combination of keys or modifiers with TAB or for word completion, however.) My feeling is that word completion is generally not very important, but I provide a key for it. To me, SPC is far more useful if it is self-inserting, not bound to some completion command. But then Icicles uses completion for lots of things, including lots of kinds of candidates that have embedded SPC chars. I feel the same about ? and C-j (newline). There is no good reason for these not to be self-inserting, IMO. Again, in Icicles there are lots of kinds of completion candidates, including multi-line ones and ones that have embedded ? chars. HTH. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 20 11:01:10 2021 Received: (at 16528) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2021 15:01:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35319 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mH617-0007ay-T9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:01:10 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60932) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mH611-0007SB-Pa for 16528@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:01:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=H3261OpdLnYGlw/sN60Yym05pHzeOd0mHGtloiW8NJU=; b=Hr+9qPKcTWAmEfPNf05rZhXaWy np3vju0FO2SVFDOFObs5pIG5NCj211AN89LJ2LMVMnOJqUW8OJjKNW5Qd1+ef2Ua6H/MkqY7ubgJA Qjq95FDpg82bZHqjby+eqxvMGNyLuXMdf1SFauJDOjqGFHVLiM8Auxs8BE8Tzc3MmxqQ=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mH60q-0005Bv-8A; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:00:56 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#16528: 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map References: <87k3dqg85g.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:00:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 23 Jan 2014 13:03:35 -0500") Message-ID: <87sfz45ffg.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Monnier writes: >> minibuffer-local-completion-map binds SPC to minibuffer-complete-word >> and ? to minibuffer-completion-help. It should be possible without >> too much hackery to run completing-read in a less obtr [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16528 Cc: 16528@debbugs.gnu.org, Roland Winkler X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Monnier writes: >> minibuffer-local-completion-map binds SPC to minibuffer-complete-word >> and ? to minibuffer-completion-help. It should be possible without >> too much hackery to run completing-read in a less obtrusive mode >> where these keys simply insert the respective characters. > > Indeed, this binding can be annoying. Some people use it heavily (and > rarely use TAB, IIUC), tho, so removing it is a bit tricky, but it was > annoying enough for files that file-name completion now uses a special > map where SPC is not bound to minibuffer-complete-word any more. Indeed -- I have (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map " " 'self-insert-command) (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map "?" 'self-insert-command) in my ~/.emacs. But I don't think we can change the defaults here (it would drive (some) people crazy), so we'd be talking about adding a user option. But I can totally see some people wanting to only make space be self-inserting, or just the question mark, and in that case, just doing the `define-key' things is better for users, I think? So I've just added that to the user manual, and I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 20 11:01:10 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2021 15:01:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35321 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mH618-0007bH-5v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:01:10 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60950) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mH616-0007Wp-89 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:01:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=rixB8ldpGmGQ1aBBjiRyMafHbJ+TMpwkSx4xyYJXTO8=; b=X+swDH1Cv+M4INzELFkx4PF7b5 yO6okfO3unNqAiVLtkEGiCnmDEYkxyB/SVeAIfrdUDkectFpMQZzfScjhnFculnPhwDvcb3FZmky2 mGxI1dM/LpYAfjQFlBbOJLTa9tG4SVopdczJD/Nfu7hF7lSMs3wlYOKM/0c43ys8N3VA=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mH60y-0005C6-Dw for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:01:02 +0200 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:00:59 +0200 Message-Id: <87r1eo5ff8.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #16528 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. 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Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:38:35 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Monnier Subject: RE: [External] : bug#16528: 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#16528: 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map Thread-Index: AQHXldRcKvCOkWP0M0Czo6TtOGFpcKt8ktNA Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:38:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87k3dqg85g.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfz45ffg.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87sfz45ffg.fsf@gnus.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnus.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gnus.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f549e649-b631-4574-8e9d-08d963f8f4c2 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5406: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f549e649-b631-4574-8e9d-08d963f8f4c2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Aug 2021 16:38:35.7473 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 40xFLjocjlUJTeBsSkOeyPuaRe17Vs2v0zztv7EsWG9Bl9bZVz+YA9gpu97rYsofEyToBTTcT5uhPCBLtMmOlQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR10MB5406 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=10082 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2107140000 definitions=main-2108200094 X-Proofpoint-GUID: Vn7IKFDx_j_FYxt4UNHRsdMwSE8ju3ZU X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: Vn7IKFDx_j_FYxt4UNHRsdMwSE8ju3ZU X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16528 Cc: "16528@debbugs.gnu.org" <16528@debbugs.gnu.org>, Roland Winkler X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) > >> minibuffer-local-completion-map binds SPC to minibuffer-complete-word > >> and ? to minibuffer-completion-help. It should be possible without > >> too much hackery to run completing-read in a less obtrusive mode > >> where these keys simply insert the respective characters. > > > > Indeed, this binding can be annoying. Some people use it heavily (and > > rarely use TAB, IIUC), tho, so removing it is a bit tricky, but it was > > annoying enough for files that file-name completion now uses a special > > map where SPC is not bound to minibuffer-complete-word any more. >=20 > Indeed -- I have >=20 > (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map " " 'self-insert-command) > (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map "?" 'self-insert-command) >=20 > in my ~/.emacs. >=20 > But I don't think we can change the defaults here (it would drive (some) > people crazy), Who? Why? How consequential? What about others? How about one good argument why `?', `SPC', and `C-j' shouldn't be self-inserting in the minibuffer, in general? If you were designing Emacs today, would you make the same argument? > so we'd be talking about adding a user option. But I can > totally see some people wanting to only make space be self-inserting, or > just the question mark, and in that case, just doing the `define-key' > things is better for users, I think? That's why we have the minibuffer keymaps, as you showed above. Again, what does "some people" mean - just whom do you see bothered by such a change in default bindings? "doing the `define-key' things" should be necessary for only a minority of users. The default behavior should be what's most sensible in general, and it should be based on what minibuffer completion might do in general. Any particular command can bind minibuffer keys as appropriate - nothing prevents some command from giving SPC, `?', or `C-j' a particular behavior. But in general? Default bindings for these? They should be self-inserting, other things being equal. Minibuffer completion is "nowadays" as general as can be. Completion candidates that contain SPC chars, newline chars, and question marks are no longer rare. When I started trying to make more use of completion back in 2005, minibuffer completion was pretty much limited to file names, commands (`M-x'), and buffer names. And yes, such chars were relatively uncommon in completion candidates (though SPC was common in MS Windows file names). It took a long time, but we finally got `SPC' to be self-inserting for file-name completion. It's high time for Emacs to catch up with the many uses of completion today. This is not your grandmother's minibuffer anymore. > So I've just added that to the user manual, and I'm closing this bug > report. Too bad. ___ There are no doubt tickets and emacs-devel discussions about this older than these (i.e., before 2005), but I didn't find them in a quick search. https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D9972#34 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D11182#25 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D16528#14 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D25441#21 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D36745#8 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D36745#23 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D44611#27 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D47150 --- https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-08/msg00577.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-11/msg01045.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2014-04/msg00246.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2014-11/msg01521.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-03/msg00250.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-11/msg00668.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-11/msg00848.html From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 20 15:51:38 2021 Received: (at 16528) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2021 19:51:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35576 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mHAYA-0007cF-T3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 15:51:38 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f44.google.com ([209.85.221.44]:39482) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mHAY5-0007bx-1H for 16528@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 15:51:32 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f44.google.com with SMTP id z4so108449wrr.6 for <16528@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:51:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=okn9hruOBhXjYmVClxoBMzIGS2G7g7IMEerdlKgWsSo=; b=QVhGSKVVe/FCYnd9ICqA8POWrBzX7fPVy2r7b8dXmOkT041LASNl6JVUorNdtKIZhl hIL3lX2PEBn21a+hXQCbRqe+vcUHXOlDDisxSzTQt46/2+y/i15JQKVpiQv/QTqVixxp 464li/AaoLqAX8aKcpSJfgmaphNz7gJclnivqy169PNbkdZp8JgxzQkvt0TtrgdL6YSk LMIXLyxI6CLWGQ3EwJ2cr6W/kowCCjBgm9xZVS3TJlfotxnagetR9291qQiBcS02gNAv 2ZqBYc7lhDozeKbzNtHu7iWjziCKOsIcRO3VDLaEJjtKIe18oA0EYZ11VBLPfIlWH8OV M4ww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=okn9hruOBhXjYmVClxoBMzIGS2G7g7IMEerdlKgWsSo=; b=GrQ48dgL/tRDXjdgGmbotnHT3zyN/4eXkRN72qNpXcdDS4Ed5nuIaJiU4RvXaMGlBP krcNmp8phMcb2aX7SrCJn1RCZGRWHnrhtKetW2SIWRWcz8GHfXgcQUvZuXDMV2YzaTiA oPQwCv1LspR7xQx6PVYNA4wzq6aflp/gXujC7I4r2MfGBRK0fecqdIJWJsJfstBxjcBb v6ZPr2L+Kirjq12oqmgrrca5InXpxAgxjRJdglp/dV5o6olcqrQz8qKb6l1z5NuZ9QqG 3LNn3VoijydzqlRFBtHwrIRvW5/zzAWEivXjFzFbKE1GYLWB/BtTG3/OR1rZTzc7tz1P eLOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532mXfn0KvCp+eYmiZ+nYMT015+OMb2KhRDrX/He6vOUbWKTqvn0 e+jKtfnw/oCbqXElLkhIDOU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzbeIKIJW/siPQL9LgCGre0mHhwdKFVZFeDWQNcel4FjMcUSTpXxlzoJHlQvzc6m0HBQr1HnA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4010:: with SMTP id n16mr465954wrp.378.1629489082996; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hirondell (static-136-181-62-95.ipcom.comunitel.net. [95.62.181.136]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n10sm6710649wrw.76.2021.08.20.12.51.21 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:51:22 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#16528: [External] : bug#16528: 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map References: <87k3dqg85g.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfz45ffg.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 21:51:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:38:35 +0000") Message-ID: <87a6lbhp3a.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16528 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , "16528@debbugs.gnu.org" <16528@debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Monnier , Roland Winkler X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: >> But I don't think we can change the defaults here (it would drive (some) >> people crazy), > > Who? Why? How consequential? What about others? > > How about one good argument why `?', `SPC', and `C-j' > shouldn't be self-inserting in the minibuffer, in > general? If you were designing Emacs today, would > you make the same argument? I don't know about good arguments, but FWIW on AZERTY, where '-' is a pain to reach for, I enjoy 'SPC' doing word completion and inserting hyphens for Elisp symbols on M-x, C-h v, C-h f, etc. I'll admit it's a pretty niche use-case, although off the top of my head, I can't find much uses for self-inserting SPC/?/C-j in the minibuffer either (Emacs 28's yank-from-kill-ring comes to mind, but '?' and 'SPC' are already self-inserting there[1]). 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: de6a20d6-ae89-40d6-0dfd-08d9641f182d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Aug 2021 21:11:36.0591 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: B+e52cITFcfPWS+pSzvsbgE8FWtjxw1SSxZmSgMNHlXpVQeaW8F0+mx/KY38purY3UUPjvVtHouM3Yc3SaAuuA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB2869 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10082 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2107140000 definitions=main-2108200119 X-Proofpoint-GUID: SPlt0xl9tg9Nk-cIHYN9IFwTgRkwBrVw X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: SPlt0xl9tg9Nk-cIHYN9IFwTgRkwBrVw X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16528 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , "16528@debbugs.gnu.org" <16528@debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Monnier , Roland Winkler X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > I don't know about good arguments, but FWIW on AZERTY, where '-' is a > pain to reach for, I enjoy 'SPC' doing word completion and inserting > hyphens for Elisp symbols on M-x, C-h v, C-h f, etc. FWIW, Icicles has (always has had) an option for which keys to use for word-completion. The default value is `M-SPC'. `icicle-word-completion-keys': ...because the spacebar is such a convenient key to hit, other people prefer to use `SPC' for word completion, and to insert a space some other way. The usual way to do that is via `C-q SPC', but command `icicle-insert-a-space' is provided for convenience. You can bind this to `M-SPC', for instance, in `minibuffer-local-completion-map', `minibuffer-local-completion-map', and `minibuffer-local-must-match-map'. And if Emacs thought that word-completion for AZERTY keyboards (or anything else) would likely result in a significant number of users wanting to customize the key(s) to use for it, Emacs too could offer an option. Or else users such as yourself would just add a binding for SPC in the relevant minibuffer keymaps.=20 > I'll admit it's a pretty niche use-case, although off the top of my > head, I can't find much uses for self-inserting SPC/?/C-j in the > minibuffer either Hearing that, I'm guessing your use of minibuffer completion doesn't encounter a lot of different kinds of completion candidates. That's fine; users are different, as are the things they complete. > (Emacs 28's yank-from-kill-ring comes to mind, but > '?' and 'SPC' are already self-inserting there[1]). Individual commands can bind whatever keys in whatever minibuffer keymaps make most sense for those commands. But I think the general case, that is, no a priori knowledge of what kinds of completion candidates might be used, should treat those 3 keys as self-inserting. Instead of the commands you mentioned making SPC self-inserting, commands for which SPC should have some action _other than_ self-insertion should bind SPC to that particular action. That's applying particular use-case knowledge to completion for that use case. The normal and generally expected action for SPC is self-insertion. That makes sense for the minibuffer also, in general. Any text at all can be a completion candidate. And a minibuffer is pretty much a general editing buffer. From unknown Mon Aug 18 00:08:18 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2021 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator