GNU bug report logs - #16450
24.3.50; HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.3.50; HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of
 left-justified
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 21:31:58 -0800 (PST)

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Dunno whether this is perhaps already known and not considered a bug.
Dunno whether, if it is considered a bug, it is seen as an Emacs bug,
since Emacs manuals are not the only ones exhibiting the bug.

Anyway, If I look at the GNU manuals online, such as this one:
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/elisp.html, and I choose "HTML
- with one web page per node.", and I start visiting nodes, I see that
the individual lines of text are generally centered, instead of being
left-justified.

This looks awful and makes reading more difficult.  A list of bullets,
for instance, does not have the bullets aligned.  Here, as an example,
is the first node of the Elisp manual:
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Introduction.html#Introduction

And this is what it looks like - see attachment.

In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32)
 of 2014-01-07 on ODIEONE
Bzr revision: 115916 bzg <at> gnu.org-20140107233629-du2solx6tmxnx0np
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=/c/Devel/emacs/binary --enable-checking=yes,glyphs
 'CFLAGS=-O0 -g3' LDFLAGS=-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib
 CPPFLAGS=-Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'

[throw-elisp-manual-online.png (image/png, attachment)]

Message #8 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 13:15:52 -0500

Not reproducible on RHEL6 with firefox, opera, or konqueror.

Message #11 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#16450: 24.3.50; HTML manual on line has all text centered
 instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 10:18:35 -0800 (PST)

> Not reproducible on RHEL6 with firefox, opera, or konqueror.

And you can add Google Chrome to that list.
The problem appears, at least, in IE8.

Message #14 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 20:25:06 +0200

> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 21:31:58 -0800 (PST)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> 
> Anyway, If I look at the GNU manuals online, such as this one:
> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/elisp.html, and I choose "HTML
> - with one web page per node.", and I start visiting nodes, I see that
> the individual lines of text are generally centered, instead of being
> left-justified.

This seems to be browser-specific.  I see the problem in (an old
version of) Internet Explorer, but not in Firefox, nor in eww.

Perhaps some CSS expert could take a look at the stylesheets used by
that manual, and see why it has such an effect.

Message #17 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 14:45:20 -0500

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> This seems to be browser-specific.  I see the problem in (an old
> version of) Internet Explorer, but not in Firefox, nor in eww.
>
> Perhaps some CSS expert could take a look at the stylesheets used by
> that manual, and see why it has such an effect.

It's the general gnu.org stylesheet, so for once I believe this to be an
issue for GNU webmasters. You might check how other gnu.org pages look.

Message #22 received at 16450-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: 16450-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 15:25:40 -0500

>> Emacs manuals are not the only ones exhibiting the bug.

Therefore this should be reported to webmasters <at> gnu.org,
since no-one here can do anything about it.
Give them precise details of the affected browser version.

Message #25 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 22:30:12 +0200

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 14:45:20 -0500
> 
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > This seems to be browser-specific.  I see the problem in (an old
> > version of) Internet Explorer, but not in Firefox, nor in eww.
> >
> > Perhaps some CSS expert could take a look at the stylesheets used by
> > that manual, and see why it has such an effect.
> 
> It's the general gnu.org stylesheet, so for once I believe this to be an
> issue for GNU webmasters. You might check how other gnu.org pages look.

I looked at some other manuals, and the ones for Emacs seem to be the
only ones with this problem.  Looks like Emacs is the only project
that uses Texinfo 5.x for these, so maybe that is the source of the
problem.

Message #28 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 15:47:35 -0500

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> I looked at some other manuals, and the ones for Emacs seem to be the
> only ones with this problem.

Drew Adams wrote:

> Emacs manuals are not the only ones exhibiting the bug.

?

> Looks like Emacs is the only project that uses Texinfo 5.x for these,

?

We don't use Texinfo 5 (unless someone has regenerated these since I
did, and it does not look like it).

Message #31 received at 16450-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, 16450-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#16450: 24.3.50; HTML manual on line has all text centered
 instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 12:48:09 -0800 (PST)

> >> Emacs manuals are not the only ones exhibiting the bug.
> 
> Therefore this should be reported to webmasters <at> gnu.org,
> since no-one here can do anything about it.
> Give them precise details of the affected browser version.

I've done that.  Thx.

Message #34 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 22:56:28 +0200

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 15:47:35 -0500
> 
> > Looks like Emacs is the only project that uses Texinfo 5.x for these,
> 
> ?
> 
> We don't use Texinfo 5 (unless someone has regenerated these since I
> did, and it does not look like it).

Maybe.  All I know is that other manuals explicitly say something like

  <meta name="generator" content="makeinfo 4.13">

while the Emacs manuals don't.  Also, the look-and-feel are distinctly
different from the rest.

Message #37 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#16450: 24.3.50; HTML manual on line has all text centered
 instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 13:00:07 -0800 (PST)

> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > I looked at some other manuals, and the ones for Emacs seem to be the
> > only ones with this problem.
> 
> Drew Adams wrote:
> > Emacs manuals are not the only ones exhibiting the bug.
> 
> ?

From the list at http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/ I tried to find a non-Emacs manual, before I filed the bug. The description of Wisent was one that seemed like it was not an Emacs manual, so I looked at that manual. It has the same problem.

Message #40 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 16:07:54 -0500

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Maybe.  All I know is that other manuals explicitly say something like
>
>   <meta name="generator" content="makeinfo 4.13">
>
> while the Emacs manuals don't.

M-x make-manuals strips that out. I assure you I used makeinfo 4.13.

> Also, the look-and-feel are distinctly different from the rest.

M-x make-manuals does some tweaks.

Message #45 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 23:10:26 +0200

> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 13:00:07 -0800 (PST)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > I looked at some other manuals, and the ones for Emacs seem to be the
> > > only ones with this problem.
> > 
> > Drew Adams wrote:
> > > Emacs manuals are not the only ones exhibiting the bug.
> > 
> > ?
> 
> >From the list at http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/ I tried to find a non-Emacs manual, before I filed the bug. The description of Wisent was one that seemed like it was not an Emacs manual, so I looked at that manual. It has the same problem.

Everything under http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/ is "Emacs
manuals".  Non-Emacs manuals are found via http://www.gnu.org/software/.

Message #48 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 05:40:42 +0200

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 16:07:54 -0500
> 
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > Maybe.  All I know is that other manuals explicitly say something like
> >
> >   <meta name="generator" content="makeinfo 4.13">
> >
> > while the Emacs manuals don't.
> 
> M-x make-manuals strips that out. I assure you I used makeinfo 4.13.
> 
> > Also, the look-and-feel are distinctly different from the rest.
> 
> M-x make-manuals does some tweaks.

Then perhaps "M-x make-manuals" is the root cause for all this?

Message #51 received at 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 16450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 22:44:21 -0500

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Then perhaps "M-x make-manuals" is the root cause for all this?

Yep, quite possibly. But someone with access to Internet Explorer will
have to investigate. I'd suggest looking at the div's and the styles
associated with them in the css. (But that's only a guess.)
Or maybe there is some align spec that IE does not follow.

Message #56 received at 16450-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: 16450-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#16450: 24.3.50;
 HTML manual on line has all text centered instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 13:14:38 -0500

Version: 24.4

A change to gnu.org css has fixed this.
You need to force IE to reload the css.

Message #59 received at 16450-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, 16450-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#16450: 24.3.50; HTML manual on line has all text centered
 instead of left-justified
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 10:30:30 -0800 (PST)

> Version: 24.4
> A change to gnu.org css has fixed this.
> You need to force IE to reload the css.

Thx.

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