From unknown Mon Jun 23 18:27:47 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#16271 <16271@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#16271 <16271@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: warn about quoted const's in defcustom Reply-To: bug#16271 <16271@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 01:27:47 +0000 retitle 16271 warn about quoted const's in defcustom reassign 16271 emacs submitter 16271 Glenn Morris severity 16271 wishlist tag 16271 moreinfo thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 27 21:20:41 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2013 02:20:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47467 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VwjW4-0006U8-S1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:20:40 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:47232) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VwjW1-0006Ty-7i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:20:38 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VwjW0-0005T4-Is; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:20:36 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: submit@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: warn about quoted const's in defcustom X-Spook: DRM DES South Africa Manfurov Belknap insurgency SDI X-Ran: TZTFr%n}Mrw{T:I4Kyi2gVPPn::!FNLmOw+v?I$m=[?FuUW:-A=)fLK]BAtF\.@;ZbsS>F X-Hue: white X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:20:36 -0500 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.6 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.6 (-----) Package: emacs Severity: wishlist The argument of a `const' (or `other') inside a defcustom type should (almost always) not be quoted. Yet people keep doing it. It would be nice if there was some way to warn about this. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 10 12:32:28 2022 Received: (at 16271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2022 16:32:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35046 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1noSmi-0003qK-05 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 May 2022 12:32:28 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57142) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1noSmg-0003q8-NN for 16271@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 May 2022 12:32:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=CJDyxgeOfLdALuvtyD0TFRo2XNE/U/OcsZJEZF8XD7E=; b=TgYyol595zjLPcyzXcq3gfGK3m HHwLht0ACoR4KjAjvI6VHDXZrZxLrqVktt8+IbwtNpzrOyr1BA1h0oesRwsE9P2dZyUcn8+xgAs56 XP3Ci4wFOq/657uyi6ZOf2FgnZO0/gI/MOwBZOXbCkiVX6Cjq2IHQCZKjytSW1G9wBr4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1noSmX-0005hm-Iq; Tue, 10 May 2022 18:32:20 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#16271: warn about quoted const's in defcustom References: X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Wild Things Run Fast_: "Chinese Cafe-Unchained Melody" Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 18:32:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:20:36 -0500") Message-ID: <87v8ude4bz.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Glenn Morris writes: > The argument of a `const' (or `other') inside a defcustom type should > (almost always) not be quoted. Yet people keep doing it. > It would be nice if there was some way to warn about this. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16271 Cc: 16271@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Glenn Morris writes: > The argument of a `const' (or `other') inside a defcustom type should > (almost always) not be quoted. Yet people keep doing it. > It would be nice if there was some way to warn about this. Yes, that would be nice, so I've now implemented it. However, there's one false positive: (defcustom erc-button-alist '(('nicknames 0 erc-button-buttonize-nicks erc-nick-popup 0) [...] (choice :tag "Matches" regexp (variable :tag "Variable containing regexp") ;; FIXME It really does mean 'nicknames ;; rather than just nicknames. (const :tag "Nicknames" 'nicknames)) And this really means 'nicknames. Anybody got any suggestions how to work around that? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 10 12:33:52 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2022 16:33:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35057 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1noSo3-0003sr-UA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 May 2022 12:33:52 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57158) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1noSo2-0003sX-5W for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 May 2022 12:33:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=54H08LtTeUBunBDc4DPkOu+AwxljhhD9Dq2Ft4Z5Ovg=; b=fQw1o4g5gfX7TaspiLW4JRVwHZ DzKA8rEQuULsf3GxI4AUPuowM4oocWCwK2EPTepSbEtgzKwayNQkHPz+pFMclbO0ZkYCih3SP2Oay kWySpaqgBW6guaIbjsFAaqQiwU6ysnqU7w1FnBxO9wlTRKS3JGcFDMEYhPjD4J0gauQI=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1noSnu-0005iF-5H for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 May 2022 18:33:44 +0200 Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 18:33:40 +0200 Message-Id: <87tu9xe49n.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #16271 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fad2ead7-242d-4b14-1c98-08da32a3e6c1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 May 2022 16:41:15.8663 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: /QxuUoAe749VRyhPlG9PoLzVKoJd9bYc1W2ZNt4GOCuaBZaL2FuatUt+H2kPaNcSoXc3UXHZEZYYgeyuY47dPQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO6PR10MB5588 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-10_04:2022-05-09, 2022-05-10 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=910 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205100072 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: UzBBk6oUwmJFqCh81KlY5QPVgjwCoeua X-Proofpoint-GUID: UzBBk6oUwmJFqCh81KlY5QPVgjwCoeua X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16271 Cc: "16271@debbugs.gnu.org" <16271@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > The argument of a `const' (or `other') inside a defcustom type should > > (almost always) not be quoted. Yet people keep doing it. > > It would be nice if there was some way to warn about this. >=20 > Yes, that would be nice, so I've now implemented it. However, there's > one false positive: >=20 > (defcustom erc-button-alist > '(('nicknames 0 erc-button-buttonize-nicks erc-nick-popup 0) > ... > (choice :tag "Matches" > regexp > (variable :tag "Variable containing regexp") > ;; FIXME It really does mean 'nicknames > ;; rather than just nicknames. > (const :tag "Nicknames" 'nicknames)) >=20 > And this really means 'nicknames. Anybody got any suggestions how to > work around that? Don't work around it. Don't try to warn not to quote. In (elisp) `Composite Types', (1) mention that you typically do not want to quote, and (2) show an example of the exception, with a quote, saying what the behavior is in that case. Warnings are not appropriate here, and will likely confuse. Making the case clear in the doc is helpful. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 11 06:53:40 2022 Received: (at 16271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2022 10:53:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36182 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nojyN-0005Si-Pr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 May 2022 06:53:39 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:38874) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nojyM-0005ST-30 for 16271@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 May 2022 06:53:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=u4NbWDfeazF/+52jiY5h3iRhmSIb+gTDD9KAuZn1HRs=; b=tN8cGPPljJcTVVrNcNd1CRY9CU jEMtlTMpjRxYxJDnd4tyKsY6deB07qiINmqKUFJXoTEUpukqVDv0xFiBcrvqFoLcARyEYS5vTvjC1 Y864DJZqbtpzFg7mZbjUJOlRjP/Rcv01F+lZS0YO/lP7cmbQhaSqrJkgrELM3/fsHdJ8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nojyC-00072v-QP; Wed, 11 May 2022 12:53:31 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#16271: warn about quoted const's in defcustom References: <87v8ude4bz.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm_: "Lakota" Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 12:53:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87v8ude4bz.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 10 May 2022 18:32:16 +0200") Message-ID: <875ymce3x7.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > And this really means 'nicknames. Anybody got any suggestions how to > work around that? I just changed that form, since it seemed pretty nonsensical anyway. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16271 Cc: 16271@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > And this really means 'nicknames. Anybody got any suggestions how to > work around that? I just changed that form, since it seemed pretty nonsensical anyway. I've now pushed this checker to Emacs 29, and it found a handful of wrongly quoted symbols, which I've also fixed. However, as the 'nicknames thing shows, there may be legitimate usages of the 'foo form, so perhaps the checker should be hidden behind a user option. But I guess we'll find out. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 11 06:53:48 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2022 10:53:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36186 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nojyW-0005T7-0M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 May 2022 06:53:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:38890) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nojyU-0005Sq-CO for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 May 2022 06:53:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=PRvJW390mMkSSZkTKMEXhR/rof4qy8wzm8dg7tzR1WY=; b=j0G7oXMRyZdiu0Cvxfc1VMi1/C gRvQL2O/fxzI2xdmzdTN2OGiue4hlhzuUiF4DCrisxVOmkZXx0PoFa3HiU4DLK/05ei66d1fLPH2O dJoC6VRgMyR0aZA21C3wWnuGcMb8l/I7XCMDmLmJqP4XqPvjmOArv20MOTRRRD0UTvkI=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nojyM-000735-Hp for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 May 2022 12:53:40 +0200 Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 12:53:33 +0200 Message-Id: <874k1we3wy.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #16271 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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I hope those fabulous CONEHEADS are at HOME!! Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 14:32:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: <875ymce3x7.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 11 May 2022 12:53:24 +0200") Message-ID: <87tu9wuu50.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16271 Cc: Glenn Morris , 16271@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Mai 11 2022, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > I just changed that form, since it seemed pretty nonsensical anyway. Doesn't that break existing customisations? -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 11 09:02:37 2022 Received: (at 16271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2022 13:02:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36472 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nolzB-0001Ie-HJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 May 2022 09:02:37 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41044) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nolz9-0001FK-U8 for 16271@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 May 2022 09:02:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=TxA7hcMPhOAKjN8YsUeUQ4I3y+yjAezanjUFpQBpFro=; b=A6OT/4lt46zGNDb+yMg8xIlwbJ 2zASghs9KK1gHaI20xGz3mRS/kUdPjGSD4ZHI/WNb2dNyvNS+Q0MSvadBDzfHwI24KW75Q57PPcuE v5GQxMfn3dyFZ1UhDmYpla/7Xqa6L4OtagAIr4ewzmmqFe5XH7UK37daT8A4LmVJUHHc=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nolz1-0008Mb-1p; Wed, 11 May 2022 15:02:29 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#16271: warn about quoted const's in defcustom References: <87v8ude4bz.fsf@gnus.org> <875ymce3x7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu9wuu50.fsf@igel.home> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEXXz69WPy6XVDee kGP///9AcP+yAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+YFCw0ACBUrQS8AAAGMSURBVDjLfZThscQg CIS52EDABiI2oNJ/b29RL9HczPNHZuLnLogokQ/R90j0LwgALMr4Z+WkKjdIvA2RG7ycHpA4arPK HKUrdICc3CsDxMorcAVLNnzDBhggiVpVtQ1ot5qBf0CSm+wg3rt+gdx0GNqaFUpiXhfPutRFAWMI xIqZlc87BheaDhtAeQmCQrYCL3gHIfFlDsoNRKOvrhK7woyCWznAomzW2AbAmMDFFhRpbIAdHBnw ATKKSEaaQaLsIFO7gqViuU3QAESzUZWQCh3ta9U8hloJSCBTOLTpDdBUvrfYLipNVwWO/EC92nmc 9gaVJX5KLRmOT3Bki9M4q/GpfsaPAp0iEhkAyd7pMqxQX5DaC7IC9k+KmWNWkTUG5vNxkWfxAoJd k/d1WkDvv+Td+m3Rr8LzjUR9/raqAKjJGaYgrQCtdhJ9eLOq/UZVLqEOoCu4MGH8KLQ1rSNdRF0B RhX2Q9M8r2wv+wS6X+gJPKVh0a/N2Ou4Qu+nRJjGop9XhimhTulnPukfP+Z3pw1paDAAAAAldEVY dGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDUtMTFUMTM6MDA6MDgrMDA6MDAmorvFAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1v ZGlmeQAyMDIyLTA1LTExVDEzOjAwOjA3KzAwOjAwobdzkAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Taming the Tiger_: "Harlem in Havana" Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 15:02:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87tu9wuu50.fsf@igel.home> (Andreas Schwab's message of "Wed, 11 May 2022 14:32:43 +0200") Message-ID: <874k1w9q8t.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Andreas Schwab writes: > Doesn't that break existing customisations? Yup; I've now added some compat code which should fix this, I think. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16271 Cc: Glenn Morris , 16271@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Andreas Schwab writes: > Doesn't that break existing customisations? Yup; I've now added some compat code which should fix this, I think. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 11 10:22:09 2022 Received: (at 16271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2022 14:22:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38033 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nonE9-0004Ju-2O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 May 2022 10:22:09 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:19192) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nonE5-0004Jj-IH for 16271@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 May 2022 10:22:07 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246630.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 24BBpFfw010445; Wed, 11 May 2022 14:22:03 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1b5d5ca8-a21c-4b0a-d979-08da33599c38 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 May 2022 14:21:59.1798 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: gsc0M2sPCPAJjczd64863xbHkkPLuD63AzbqXoOf1hKYi4kVP+9m2GN0Z07OS+1/QZR1hp8tvgTdeWcPAAtqIA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN8PR10MB3537 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-11_05:2022-05-11, 2022-05-11 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=840 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205110068 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: IsjzHkpYAKIpVBusSC-9i0vpRZC366_L X-Proofpoint-GUID: IsjzHkpYAKIpVBusSC-9i0vpRZC366_L X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16271 Cc: "16271@debbugs.gnu.org" <16271@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > And this really means 'nicknames. Anybody > > got any suggestions how to work around that? Suggestions given. And ignored. > I just changed that form, since it seemed pretty > nonsensical anyway. Clearly that doesn't solve the problem at all. The problem is not the existence of that code in Emacs. The problem is the lack of good help regarding the possible values. And a quoted symbol (more generally, a quoted sexp) is perfectly fine as a value, here. Not typical, but fine. Whether vanilla Emacs code contains such an example is 100% irrelevant. Removing that code in order to avoid a warning message is, well, misguided. That just masks/hides the problem. But it also points to the fact that using a _warning_ to solve the problem is misguided. The problem is insufficient communication to users of what the possible values are. And in particular, that (1) you typically use a value without quoting it, AND (2) you can use a quoted sexp if you in fact want the value that's used to be a quoted sexp. To communicate that information a warning is (1) inappropriate - there's nothing to "warn" about, and (2) insufficient - no simple warning text will make clear what's involved. There's _no substitute_ for documenting this properly in the manual. Include an example. That there's no substitute for documenting this in the manual doesn't mean that other help can't also be provided somehow, somewhere. But not a _warning_. That's counter-productive and misleading. > I've now pushed this checker to Emacs 29, and=20 > it found a handful of wrongly quoted symbols, > which I've also fixed. If they were truly wrongly quoted, great. But irrelevant to fixing this problem, which is one of helping users understand. Misses the point altogether. It doesn't tell users about either of (1) and (2). Instead, it suggests something else - that there's actually something to _warn_ about. > However, as the 'nicknames thing shows, there > may be legitimate usages of the 'foo form, so > perhaps the checker should be hidden behind a > user option. Of course there are legitimate uses. And no, nothing about this should be hidden behind a user option. > But I guess we'll find out. Maybe in another decade or two this will get handled properly. Or not. From unknown Mon Jun 23 18:27:47 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 11:24:09 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator