From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:06:27 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#16214 <16214@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#16214 <16214@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode Reply-To: bug#16214 <16214@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2025 21:06:27 +0000 retitle 16214 Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode reassign 16214 emacs submitter 16214 Tak Kunihiro severity 16214 wishlist tag 16214 wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 21 13:20:39 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2013 18:20:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33470 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VuRAD-0007N1-TE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 13:20:39 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52852) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VuMno-0006xI-VB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 08:41:14 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VuMni-0007Ls-TK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 08:41:12 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:60969) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VuMni-0007Lo-QE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 08:41:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54560) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VuMnd-0007zi-3J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 08:41:06 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VuMnV-0007Kt-WF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 08:41:01 -0500 Received: from msmail2.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp ([150.46.245.7]:50918 helo=msmail.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VuMnV-0007Kc-DN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 08:40:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (p8181-ipbfp304tottori.tottori.ocn.ne.jp [114.155.19.181]) by msmail.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4A7AF8094; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 22:40:47 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 22:40:43 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode From: Tak Kunihiro X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 13:20:33 -0500 Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, Roland McGrath X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) Dear all, This is my first post to Emacs-related mailing list. Roland suggested me to post here. Apologize in advance if my behavior is something inappropriate. I am new to Emacs and use dired, occur, and grep everyday. When I jump to a corresponding file from there, I do not pay much attention which mode I am at. I am eager to have similar interface with similar key-map in three modes. I see some functions are missing in some modes. Something like following will improve consistency among three major-modes. Please consider my request to make fundamental interface of three major-modes to be more consistent by default. Although key-map could be personal preference, and my code could be pretty bad, I hope this post will be a start. Best regards, Tak -- Dr Tak Kunihiro Associate Professor, Okayama Univ Misasa, Tottori 682-0193, Japan http://dream.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp * Summary of key and possible function in three major-modes "o" |-------+-------------------------------------------| | mode | fun | |-------+-------------------------------------------| | dired | (dired-find-file-other-window) | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-other-window) | | grep | (compile-goto-error) | |-------+-------------------------------------------| "C-o" |-------+------------------------------------| | mode | fun | |-------+------------------------------------| | dired | (dired-display-file) | | occur | (occur-mode-display-occurrence) | | grep | (grep-mode-display-occurrence); *1 | |-------+------------------------------------| ; *1 (defun grep-mode-display-occurrence () (interactive) (let ((compilation-context-lines nil)) (setq compilation-current-error (point)) (next-error-no-select 0))) |-------+----------------------------------------------| | mode | fun | |-------+----------------------------------------------| | dired | (dired-find-file) | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-this-window); *2 | | grep | (compile-goto-error-this-window); *3 | |-------+----------------------------------------------| ; *2 (defun occur-mode-goto-occurrence-this-window () "Go to the occurrence the current line describes, in this window." (interactive) (let ((pos (occur-mode-find-occurrence))) ;; (switch-to-buffer-other-window (marker-buffer pos)) (switch-to-buffer (marker-buffer pos)) (goto-char pos) (run-hooks 'occur-mode-find-occurrence-hook))) ; *3 ; http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15814031 (defun compile-goto-error-this-window () (interactive) (let ((display-buffer-overriding-action '(display-buffer-same-window (inhibit-same-window . nil))) (compilation-context-lines nil)) (setq compilation-current-error (point)) (compile-goto-error))) |-------+-----| | mode | fun | |-------+-----| | dired | *4 | | occur | *5 | | grep | *6 | |-------+-----| ; *4 (define-key grep-mode-map (kbd "SPC") '(lambda() (interactive) (ignore-errors (grep-mode-display-occurrence)) (next-line))) ; *5 (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "SPC") '(lambda() (interactive) (dired-display-file) (dired-next-line 1))) ; *6 (define-key occur-mode-map (kbd "SPC") '(lambda() (interactive) (ignore-errors (occur-mode-display-occurrence)) (next-line))) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 21 14:24:03 2013 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2013 19:24:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33578 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VuS9a-00011J-Ea for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 14:24:02 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:41262) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VuS9Y-00010t-8Z for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 14:24:01 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id rBLJNvgl004593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 21 Dec 2013 19:23:58 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rBLJNsgC024581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 21 Dec 2013 19:23:55 GMT Received: from ubhmt103.oracle.com (ubhmt103.oracle.com [156.151.24.8]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rBLJNsmo024576; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 19:23:54 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4f292d00-c910-4c95-8fb6-1a7c367bb2ff@default> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 11:23:53 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Tak Kunihiro , 16214@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> X-Priority: 2 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: Roland McGrath X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) While there might be room for some minor alignment, in general it is not good to privilege standardization too highly here, IMO. There are superficial similarities, and maybe some that are more than superficial. But there are also different purposes and use patterns. These are quite different modes when you look closely and take all of what each does into account - its raison d'etre: what it is for. Each should be handled case by case, with an eye to all of its features and its overall set of use cases. Dired, in particular, is extremely rich. Let us not start hobbling it in the name of standardization. With that caveat expressed, I have no big objection to what has been proposed here so far. (I would prefer that SPC in Dired remain what it is, but that's about it.) But I would strongly recommend that we not go overboard with such an approach - that would be quite misguided IMO. The main guide for us should be the full set of features - and how they interact - for each individual mode viewed on its own. Let's keep in mind the most important rule regarding consistency: Consistency *within* a given system/application/realm/area/function is very important. Consistency *across* different areas is not so important - essentially only a nice-to-have, permitted when other things are in fact equal. Consistency within an area involves/includes also how its parts fit together. Individual parts (e.g. key sequences) should not be considered only on their own - they are parts of a whole/system. And even in the latter case, when we allow ourselves some added consistency across areas, we should always keep that *tentative*. A better idea that comes up later, based on reasons relevant to a given domain itself, should trump any such cross-domain tentative harmony we allowed before that better idea. IOW, internal cohesion/meaning/relevance is in general a much more important consideration than is external coupling/consistency/convention. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 21 15:15:42 2013 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2013 20:15:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33618 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VuSxX-0002it-HY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 15:15:40 -0500 Received: from mail-we0-f178.google.com ([74.125.82.178]:45287) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VuSxU-0002ij-8U for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 15:15:37 -0500 Received: by mail-we0-f178.google.com with SMTP id u57so3687532wes.23 for <16214@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 12:15:35 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=YkDlLZXHvOtMcZTjee9aAaUIlJ4fCr4xEoeqD2fs+CM=; b=glB1MUBHk0+wc12xZpCmwdD9v+G8GFSi2rezvy8BJwkKZKX0cxu3+t56HywV3IDg5I h+60bWd8fvDs1vpva+/ueYq69/cn84twEDCLNtV7J7N+ODzpScDVmUZbqLhq97PX7qQQ N8q7XGgXfl4I521lU9TNM1Yoo38tNjG+wEMRxPY+nKUx2elTB51WHeE00HQIJXVESoPK p5jd8pUMzoTTkjLj75iRha4BytiR4skF00ONRxFkG+DGNW9l1veNrUJZjn6VtV65viIm +RXfNOya/V8OAz0RJFt+IWo1cBSRNMoeqK2jqcF8sRtbI79eYYWou5aiYhud4EkFpC9h cVKQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQld3mleRFTQCEpNreGYIv5U6ydr8vROzWuY948gaRc1ZnycI8+DKM+GJRkVvglZ1iBVE7Yl X-Received: by 10.180.19.72 with SMTP id c8mr13107962wie.24.1387656935240; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 12:15:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.24.7 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 12:15:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> From: Josh Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 12:15:05 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: hMpiT8Hr-5Pxk-fACyD87Qd6XNY Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode To: Tak Kunihiro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, Roland McGrath X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 5:40 AM, Tak Kunihiro wrote: > This is my first post to Emacs-related mailing list. Roland suggested > me to post here. Apologize in advance if my behavior is something > inappropriate. Thanks for posting this! > I am new to Emacs and use dired, occur, and grep everyday. When I > jump to a corresponding file from there, I do not pay much attention > which mode I am at. > > I am eager to have similar interface with similar key-map in three > modes. I see some functions are missing in some modes. Something > like following will improve consistency among three major-modes. I'd also like to see these modes' interfaces for similar functionality become more consistent. They already have similarities such as binding `g' to logical refresh operations and further harmonization would be great. Another difference between their interfaces that I'd like to see reconciled is the key binding to make these buffers editable, i.e. to enable the functionality provided by Emacs' `wdired-mode' and `occur-edit-mode', and the third-party wgrep library[0]. Though the bindings to commit and abort edits are consistent between the three, the enablement bindings are not. I haven't managed to keep them straight yet so I sometimes hit `e' in a dired buffer and end up visiting the file at point instead of enabling wdired, and similarly sometimes hit C-x C-q in an occur buffer which calls the standard `read-only-mode' instead of enabling `occur-edit-mode'. |------------+----------------------------+---------------------+----------------------| | Mode | Enable editing mode | Commit/finish edits | Abort edits | |------------+----------------------------+---------------------+----------------------| | occur-edit | e | C-c C-c | N/A | | | occur-edit-mode | occur-cease-edit | | |------------+----------------------------+---------------------+----------------------| | wdired | C-x C-q | C-c C-c | C-c C-k | | | dired-toggle-read-only | wdired-finish-edit | wdired-abort-changes | |------------+----------------------------+---------------------+----------------------| | wgrep | C-c C-p | C-c C-c | C-c C-k | | | wgrep-change-to-wgrep-mode | wgrep-finish-edit | wgrep-abort-changes | |------------+----------------------------+---------------------+----------------------| In regard to your proposed C-o and SPC bindings, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to extend `next-error-follow-minor-mode' to support dired, perhaps including the ability to restrict which files were displayed via regexps or a function. > Please consider my request to make fundamental interface of three > major-modes to be more consistent by default. Although key-map could > be personal preference, and my code could be pretty bad, I hope this > post will be a start. Users can always customize bindings to suit their taste, but a consistent set of defaults makes Emacs more accessible to new users and makes guesses about where to find desired functionality more likely to be correct. > Best regards, > Tak [0] https://github.com/mhayashi1120/Emacs-wgrep Cheers, Josh From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 21 16:35:15 2013 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2013 21:35:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33697 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VuUCY-0005EE-Do for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:35:15 -0500 Received: from [69.163.184.122] (port=41206 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VuUCV-0005Dw-CQ for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:35:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.jurta.org (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.184.122]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8123532D742324; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 13:35:09 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: Josh Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode Organization: JURTA References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 23:30:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: (josh@foxtail.org's message of "Sat, 21 Dec 2013 12:15:05 -0800") Message-ID: <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > I'd also like to see these modes' interfaces for similar functionality > become more consistent. They already have similarities such as > binding `g' to logical refresh operations and further harmonization > would be great. [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, Tak Kunihiro , Roland McGrath X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > I'd also like to see these modes' interfaces for similar functionality > become more consistent. They already have similarities such as > binding `g' to logical refresh operations and further harmonization > would be great. [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS > I'd also like to see these modes' interfaces for similar functionality > become more consistent. They already have similarities such as > binding `g' to logical refresh operations and further harmonization > would be great. Then help-mode could bind `g' to `revert-buffer' too, but the problem is that then help-mode will be inconsistent with Info-mode where `g' is bound to `Info-goto-node'. > Another difference between their interfaces that I'd like to see > reconciled is the key binding to make these buffers editable, i.e. to > enable the functionality provided by Emacs' `wdired-mode' and > `occur-edit-mode', and the third-party wgrep library[0]. Though the > bindings to commit and abort edits are consistent between the three, > the enablement bindings are not. I haven't managed to keep them > straight yet so I sometimes hit `e' in a dired buffer and end up > visiting the file at point instead of enabling wdired, and similarly > sometimes hit C-x C-q in an occur buffer which calls the standard > `read-only-mode' instead of enabling `occur-edit-mode'. The difference is because it's more useful to type `C-x C-q' to change read-onlyness of an occur buffer and edit it textually than to do the same in a dired buffer where random edits (other than renaming file names) make less sense. > In regard to your proposed C-o and SPC bindings, I wonder if it would > be worthwhile to extend `next-error-follow-minor-mode' to support > dired, perhaps including the ability to restrict which files were > displayed via regexps or a function. This is possible, and then `M-g n' could visit the next file in a sequence, and maybe the same key prefix could be used also for other binding to make them more consistent, e.g. `M-g o' for `dired-find-file-other-window', `M-g C-o' for `dired-display-file', etc. > Users can always customize bindings to suit their taste, but a > consistent set of defaults makes Emacs more accessible to new users > and makes guesses about where to find desired functionality more > likely to be correct. I'd also add the vc-dir mode to the list of modes to share the same keybindings. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 22 06:49:11 2013 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Dec 2013 11:49:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34120 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VuhWv-0008Cu-MX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 06:49:11 -0500 Received: from msmail2.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp ([150.46.245.7]:51936 helo=msmail.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VuhWq-0008CM-Vk for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 06:49:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (p8181-ipbfp304tottori.tottori.ocn.ne.jp [114.155.19.181]) by msmail.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B57AF8094; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 20:48:57 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 20:48:50 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> To: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode From: Tak Kunihiro In-Reply-To: <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: juri@jurta.org, josh@foxtail.org, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, drew.adams@oracle.com, roland@hack.frob.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) Dear all, Thank you for positive responses. It is also a relief to know that I posted to an appropriate place. To have consistency on edition of buffer at dired-/occur-/grep-mode, (1) addition of two key-binds, "e" to both (dired-toggle-read-only) and (wgrep-change-to-wgrep-mode), and (2) implementation of a function (occur-abort-changes) will do it. In this manner, addition of key-binds and implementation of several functions will do it without breaking internal consistency. Modes, functions, key-binds as-is, and key-binds plus, with feed-backs, are summarized in Table 1. I think that there are just a little side effects such as change in behavior of in grep-mode. I checked *.el and summarized possible contacts in Table 2. Assuming a consensus getting built up, what should be done for the next step to make these by default? Best regards, Tak -- Dr Tak Kunihiro Associate Professor, Okayama Univ Misasa, Tottori 682-0193, Japan http://dream.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp Table 1: A summary of mode, function, key-bind as-is, and key-bind plus to have consistency between dired-, occur-, grep-, help-, and vc-dir-mode. - key "o" and "C-o" may be "M-g o" and "M-g C-o" - wgrep is at https://github.com/mhayashi1120/Emacs-wgrep |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | mode | function | key-as-is | key-plus | |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | ! | edit buffer (enable/finish/abort) |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | wdired | (dired-toggle-read-only) | "C-x C-q" | "e" | | wdired | (wdired-finish-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | wdired | (wdired-abort-changes) | "C-c C-k" | | | occur | (occur-edit-mode) | "e" | | | occur | (occur-cease-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | occur | ? | | "C-c C-k" | | wgrep | (wgrep-change-to-wgrep-mode) | "C-c C-p" | "e" | | wgrep | (wgrep-finish-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | wgrep | (wgrep-abort-changes) | "C-c C-k" | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | ! | open in other window |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | dired | (dired-find-file-other-window) | "o" | | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-other-window) | "o" | | | grep | (compile-goto-error) | | "o" | | help | ? | | "o" | | vc-dir | ? | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | ! | open in other window no select |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | dired | (dired-display-file) | "C-o" | | | occur | (occur-mode-display-occurrence) | "C-o" | | | grep | (grep-mode-display-occurrence); *1 | | "C-o" | | help | ? | | "C-o" | | vc-dir | ? | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | ! | open in this window |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | dired | (dired-find-file) | | | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-this-window); *2 | | | | grep | (compile-goto-error-this-window); *3 | | | | help | ? | | | | vc-dir | ? | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | ! | revert buffer |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | dired | (revert-buffer) | "g" | | | occur | (revert-buffer) | "g" | | | grep | (recompile) | "g" | | | help | (revert-buffer) | "g" | | | vc-dir | ? | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | ! | open in other window with cursor moved |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | dired | ? | | "C-c C-f" | | occur | (next-error-follow-minor-mode) | "C-c C-f" | | | grep | (next-error-follow-minor-mode) | "C-c C-f" | | | help | ? | | | | vc-dir | ? | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | ! | open in other window and go next matter |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| | dired | *4 | | | | occur | *5 | | | | grep | *6 | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------| ; *1 (defun grep-mode-display-occurrence () (interactive) (let ((compilation-context-lines nil)) (setq compilation-current-error (point)) (next-error-no-select 0))) ; *2 (defun occur-mode-goto-occurrence-this-window () "Go to the occurrence the current line describes, in this window." (interactive) (let ((pos (occur-mode-find-occurrence))) ;; (switch-to-buffer-other-window (marker-buffer pos)) (switch-to-buffer (marker-buffer pos)) (goto-char pos) (run-hooks 'occur-mode-find-occurrence-hook))) ; *3 ; http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15814031 (defun compile-goto-error-this-window () (interactive) (let ((display-buffer-overriding-action '(display-buffer-same-window (inhibit-same-window . nil))) (compilation-context-lines nil)) (setq compilation-current-error (point)) (compile-goto-error))) ; *4 (define-key grep-mode-map (kbd "SPC") '(lambda() (interactive) (ignore-errors (grep-mode-display-occurrence)) (next-line))) ; *5 (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "SPC") '(lambda() (interactive) (dired-display-file) (dired-next-line 1))) ; *6 (define-key occur-mode-map (kbd "SPC") '(lambda() (interactive) (ignore-errors (occur-mode-display-occurrence)) (next-line))) Table 2: A contact list for each mode |--------+------------------------| | mode | contact | |--------+------------------------| | occur | FSF | | grep | FSF | | dired | FSF | | help | FSF | | wdired | juanleon1@gmail.com | | vc-dir | dann@ics.uci.edu | | wgrep | mhayashi1120@gmail.com | |--------+------------------------| From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 22 16:49:33 2013 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Dec 2013 21:49:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34930 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vuqtx-0002EH-Ks for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 16:49:33 -0500 Received: from [69.163.184.122] (port=49735 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vuqtv-0002E1-4o for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 16:49:31 -0500 Received: from localhost.jurta.org (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.184.122]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53FF630217E66F; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 13:49:29 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: Tak Kunihiro Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode Organization: JURTA References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 23:44:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> (Tak Kunihiro's message of "Sun, 22 Dec 2013 20:48:50 +0900 (JST)") Message-ID: <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > To have consistency on edition of buffer at dired-/occur-/grep-mode, > (1) addition of two key-binds, "e" to both (dired-toggle-read-only) > and (wgrep-change-to-wgrep-mode), and (2) implementation of a function > (occur-abort-changes) will do it. [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, roland@hack.frob.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, josh@foxtail.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > To have consistency on edition of buffer at dired-/occur-/grep-mode, > (1) addition of two key-binds, "e" to both (dired-toggle-read-only) > and (wgrep-change-to-wgrep-mode), and (2) implementation of a function > (occur-abort-changes) will do it. [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS > To have consistency on edition of buffer at dired-/occur-/grep-mode, > (1) addition of two key-binds, "e" to both (dired-toggle-read-only) > and (wgrep-change-to-wgrep-mode), and (2) implementation of a function > (occur-abort-changes) will do it. I highly sympathize with your attempts to make keybindings consistent, but please note that some existing keybindings can't be changed for historical reasons. For example, `v' in Dired opens a file in view mode, so often I type `v' in vc-dir, but it registers the file in version control instead of opening in view mode. I have no idea how to avoid this inconsistency. Also `e' in Dired is used to open a file for editing, so `e' can't be used to edit the Dired buffer. Maybe take some other key, e.g. `M-e' (like in isearch) or `M-g e'. Inconsistency in opening in other window between Dired ("o") and occur/grep () is a good inconsistency, because the primary purpose of occur/grep is to open files in other window, so more easy to type key is more suitable for occur/grep to open a file in other window. I see no harm in adding "o" (`compile-goto-error') to grep, as grep already has `C-o' (`compilation-display-error') to display grep hits in another window. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 23 06:35:14 2013 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Dec 2013 11:35:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35430 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vv3my-0003DN-HA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Dec 2013 06:35:13 -0500 Received: from msmail2.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp ([150.46.245.7]:58435 helo=msmail.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vv3mu-0003D6-C4 for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Dec 2013 06:35:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (p8181-ipbfp304tottori.tottori.ocn.ne.jp [114.155.19.181]) by msmail.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 510B0AF8094; Mon, 23 Dec 2013 20:35:05 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 20:34:59 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20131223.203459.187619082.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> To: juri@jurta.org Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode From: Tak Kunihiro In-Reply-To: <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, roland@hack.frob.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, josh@foxtail.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) Thank you for the response. > Inconsistency in opening in other window between Dired ("o") and > occur/grep () is a good inconsistency, because the primary > purpose of occur/grep is to open files in other window, so > more easy to type key is more suitable for occur/grep > to open a file in other window. I see. It sounds reasonable to be assigned to the primary purpose. Following is when I think that to assign to (open-file-this-window) is convenient. 1. On edition of in a single window, I feel like referring to sentences in a different file. 2. (grep) something, then *grep* pops up in (other-window). 3. I will find a line in file-b; move cursor to the line on *grep* 4. Hit then pops up on the first window 5. The buffer disappears then I lost. Now I know that I have to prepare the third window before hit ! Assigning to (open-file-this-window) on occur/grep may loose convenience, but helps new users because that behavior is similar to following hyperlink in a web browser. After exercises, one can lean to hit `o', which actually is more easy to type than . How do you think about with considering new users? Let me focus on dired/occur/grep with four functions (A-D) for now. Proposed keys are summarized in Table 1. A. edit-buffer B. open-file-other-window C. open-file-other-window-no-select D. open-file-this-window A. edit-buffer To avoid overwriting `e' in dired, it seems that `C-x C-q' is the second choice. Is `M-e' or `M-g e' better? B. open-file-other-window As you mentioned, add `o' to (compile-goto-error) will do it. C. open-file-other-window-no-select Same thing, add `C-o' to something like (compilation-display-error) will do it. D. open-file-this-window Other candidates besides would be something like `M-' or 'M-o'? Tak Table 1: A proposed mode, function, key-bind as-is, and key-bind plus to have consistency between dired-, occur-, and grep. |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | mode | function | key-as-is | key-plus | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | A. edit-buffer (enable/finish/abort) | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | wdired | (dired-toggle-read-only) | "C-x C-q" | | | | (wdired-finish-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | | (wdired-abort-changes) | "C-c C-k" | | | occur | (occur-edit-mode) | "e" | "C-x C-q" | | | (occur-cease-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | | ? | | "C-c C-k" | | wgrep | (wgrep-change-to-wgrep-mode) | "C-c C-p" | "C-x C-q" | | | (wgrep-finish-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | | (wgrep-abort-changes) | "C-c C-k" | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | B. open-file-other-window | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-find-file-other-window) | "o" | | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-other-window) | and "o" | | | grep | (compile-goto-error) | | "o" | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | C. open-file-other-window-no-select | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-display-file) | "C-o" | | | occur | (occur-mode-display-occurrence) | "C-o" | | | grep | (grep-mode-display-occurrence); *1 | | "C-o" | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | D. open-file-this-window | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-find-file) | | ? | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-this-window); *2 | | ? | | grep | (compile-goto-error-this-window); *3 | | ? | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | Z. summary of function-assign-to- | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-find-file) | | | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-other-window) | and "o" | | | grep | (compile-goto-error) | | "o" | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| ; *1 (defun grep-mode-display-occurrence () (interactive) (let ((compilation-context-lines nil)) (setq compilation-current-error (point)) (next-error-no-select 0))) ; *2 (defun occur-mode-goto-occurrence-this-window () "Go to the occurrence the current line describes, in this window." (interactive) (let ((pos (occur-mode-find-occurrence))) ;; (switch-to-buffer-other-window (marker-buffer pos)) (switch-to-buffer (marker-buffer pos)) (goto-char pos) (run-hooks 'occur-mode-find-occurrence-hook))) ; *3 ; http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15814031 (defun compile-goto-error-this-window () (interactive) (let ((display-buffer-overriding-action '(display-buffer-same-window (inhibit-same-window . nil))) (compilation-context-lines nil)) (setq compilation-current-error (point)) (compile-goto-error))) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 23 17:51:28 2013 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Dec 2013 22:51:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36852 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VvELQ-0001Ug-AL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:51:28 -0500 Received: from [69.163.184.122] (port=53294 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VvELN-0001UU-Ls for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:51:26 -0500 Received: from localhost.jurta.org (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.184.122]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCD5234CB016B9; Mon, 23 Dec 2013 14:51:22 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: Tak Kunihiro Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode Organization: JURTA References: <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131223.203459.187619082.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 23:52:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20131223.203459.187619082.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> (Tak Kunihiro's message of "Mon, 23 Dec 2013 20:34:59 +0900 (JST)") Message-ID: <87fvpj5voe.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > Assigning to (open-file-this-window) on occur/grep may loose > convenience, but helps new users because that behavior is similar to > following hyperlink in a web browser. This behavior is similar to using History or Bookmarks window in a web browser. For example, in Firefox typing `C-h' opens the History list in the left side window (and C-b opens the Bookmark list in the left side window). In the side window you can press or click on a link name, and it will open another page in the main window, replacing old page with a new page. This is exactly like works in grep/occur buffers. [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, roland@hack.frob.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, josh@foxtail.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > Assigning to (open-file-this-window) on occur/grep may loose > convenience, but helps new users because that behavior is similar to > following hyperlink in a web browser. This behavior is similar to using History or Bookmarks window in a web browser. For example, in Firefox typing `C-h' opens the History list in the left side window (and C-b opens the Bookmark list in the left side window). In the side window you can press or click on a link name, and it will open another page in the main window, replacing old page with a new page. This is exactly like works in grep/occur buffers. [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS > Assigning to (open-file-this-window) on occur/grep may loose > convenience, but helps new users because that behavior is similar to > following hyperlink in a web browser. This behavior is similar to using History or Bookmarks window in a web browser. For example, in Firefox typing `C-h' opens the History list in the left side window (and C-b opens the Bookmark list in the left side window). In the side window you can press or click on a link name, and it will open another page in the main window, replacing old page with a new page. This is exactly like works in grep/occur buffers. > A. edit-buffer > To avoid overwriting `e' in dired, it seems that `C-x C-q' is the > second choice. Is `M-e' or `M-g e' better? Adding a new key is not better because it will be incompatible with older versions. > D. open-file-this-window > Other candidates besides would be something like `M-' or 'M-o'? For a key to use for this-window you could look at `C-x C-b' (list-buffers) that binds the key `f' to `Buffer-menu-this-window'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 24 18:15:52 2013 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Dec 2013 23:15:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39883 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VvbCX-00029g-I6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 18:15:50 -0500 Received: from msmail2.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp ([150.46.245.7]:44604 helo=msmail.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VvbCT-00029Q-Gs for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 18:15:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (vesta.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp [150.46.48.154]) by msmail.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4466EAF8094; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:15:43 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:15:39 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20131225.081539.476633610.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> To: juri@jurta.org Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode From: Tak Kunihiro In-Reply-To: <87fvpj5voe.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131223.203459.187619082.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87fvpj5voe.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, roland@hack.frob.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, josh@foxtail.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) >> Assigning to (open-file-this-window) on occur/grep may loose >> convenience, but helps new users because that behavior is similar to >> following hyperlink in a web browser. > > This behavior is similar to using History or Bookmarks window > in a web browser. I see the analogy of behavior in occur/grep as a sidebar. Then dired is shown on the main window of the web browser watching directory structure of a web server. >> A. edit-buffer >> To avoid overwriting `e' in dired, it seems that `C-x C-q' is the >> second choice. Is `M-e' or `M-g e' better? > > Adding a new key is not better because it will be incompatible > with older versions. How about to add `E' to edit buffer? It is close to `e' on occur, and it seems that it is not used in any of dired/occur/wgrep yet. >> D. open-file-this-window >> Other candidates besides would be something like `M-' or 'M-o'? > > For a key to use for this-window you could look at `C-x C-b' (list-buffers) > that binds the key `f' to `Buffer-menu-this-window'. To assign `f' sounds very nice. Now proposed keys are summarized in Table 1. Table 1: A proposed mode, function, key-bind as-is, and key-bind plus to have consistency between dired-, occur-, and grep. |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | mode | function | key-as-is | key-plus | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | A. edit-buffer (enable/finish/abort) | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | wdired | (dired-toggle-read-only) | "C-x C-q" | "E" | | | (wdired-finish-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | | (wdired-abort-changes) | "C-c C-k" | | | occur | (occur-edit-mode) | "e" | "E" | | | (occur-cease-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | | ? | | "C-c C-k" | | wgrep | (wgrep-change-to-wgrep-mode) | "C-c C-p" | "E" | | | (wgrep-finish-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | | (wgrep-abort-changes) | "C-c C-k" | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | B. open-file-other-window | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-find-file-other-window) | "o" | | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-other-window) | and "o" | | | grep | (compile-goto-error) | | "o" | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | C. open-file-other-window-no-select | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-display-file) | "C-o" | | | occur | (occur-mode-display-occurrence) | "C-o" | | | grep | (grep-mode-display-occurrence); *1 | | "C-o" | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | D. open-file-this-window | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-find-file) | and "f" | | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-this-window); *2 | | "f" | | grep | (compile-goto-error-this-window); *3 | | "f" | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | Z. summary of function-assign-to- | | | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-find-file) | and "f" | | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-other-window) | and "o" | | | grep | (compile-goto-error) | | "o" | |--------+----------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| ; *1 (defun grep-mode-display-occurrence () (interactive) (let ((compilation-context-lines nil)) (setq compilation-current-error (point)) (next-error-no-select 0))) ; *2 (defun occur-mode-goto-occurrence-this-window () "Go to the occurrence the current line describes, in this window." (interactive) (let ((pos (occur-mode-find-occurrence))) ;; (switch-to-buffer-other-window (marker-buffer pos)) (switch-to-buffer (marker-buffer pos)) (goto-char pos) (run-hooks 'occur-mode-find-occurrence-hook))) ; *3 ; http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15814031 (defun compile-goto-error-this-window () (interactive) (let ((display-buffer-overriding-action '(display-buffer-same-window (inhibit-same-window . nil))) (compilation-context-lines nil)) (setq compilation-current-error (point)) (compile-goto-error))) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 25 15:59:33 2013 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2013 20:59:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41951 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VvvYC-00071r-RV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 15:59:33 -0500 Received: from [69.163.184.122] (port=37260 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VvvYA-00071X-Tk for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 15:59:31 -0500 Received: from localhost.jurta.org (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.184.122]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EAC034CB016B8; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 12:59:25 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: Tak Kunihiro Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode Organization: JURTA References: <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131223.203459.187619082.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87fvpj5voe.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131225.081539.476633610.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 22:57:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20131225.081539.476633610.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> (Tak Kunihiro's message of "Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:15:39 +0900 (JST)") Message-ID: <878uv8hco2.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > How about to add `E' to edit buffer? It is close to `e' on occur, and > it seems that it is not used in any of dired/occur/wgrep yet. Maybe we could use the same key `C-x C-q' for `occur-edit-mode', and improve it in such a way that it doesn't cause unexpected results when the user intends to edit just the *Occur* buffer, and not its associated source buffers. [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, roland@hack.frob.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, josh@foxtail.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > How about to add `E' to edit buffer? It is close to `e' on occur, and > it seems that it is not used in any of dired/occur/wgrep yet. Maybe we could use the same key `C-x C-q' for `occur-edit-mode', and improve it in such a way that it doesn't cause unexpected results when the user intends to edit just the *Occur* buffer, and not its associated source buffers. [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS > How about to add `E' to edit buffer? It is close to `e' on occur, and > it seems that it is not used in any of dired/occur/wgrep yet. Maybe we could use the same key `C-x C-q' for `occur-edit-mode', and improve it in such a way that it doesn't cause unexpected results when the user intends to edit just the *Occur* buffer, and not its associated source buffers. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 28 04:57:34 2013 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2013 09:57:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47852 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VwqeE-0004Yo-1M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 04:57:34 -0500 Received: from msmail2.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp ([150.46.245.7]:40900 helo=msmail.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VwqeA-0004YZ-0F for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 04:57:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (p8181-ipbfp304tottori.tottori.ocn.ne.jp [114.155.19.181]) by msmail.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C07AF8094; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:57:25 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:57:16 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20131228.185716.90990052.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> To: juri@jurta.org Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode From: Tak Kunihiro In-Reply-To: <878uv8hco2.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <87fvpj5voe.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131225.081539.476633610.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <878uv8hco2.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, roland@hack.frob.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, josh@foxtail.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) Dear Juri, >> How about to add `E' to edit buffer? It is close to `e' on occur, and >> it seems that it is not used in any of dired/occur/wgrep yet. > > Maybe we could use the same key `C-x C-q' for `occur-edit-mode', and > improve it in such a way that it doesn't cause unexpected results > when the user intends to edit just the *Occur* buffer, and not its > associated source buffers. Thank you for the reply. Current proposed keys are summarized in Table 1. Honestly, I am not capable to improve *Occur* and even I do not know how I proceed for the next step including technical aspects as described on www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BzrForEmacsCasualDevs. Could you give me a suggestion? Best regards, Tak Table 1: A proposed mode, function, key-bind as-is, and key-bind plus to have consistency between dired-, occur-, and grep. |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | mode | function | key-as-is | key-plus | |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | A. edit-buffer (enable/finish/abort) | | | |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | wdired | (dired-toggle-read-only) | "C-x C-q" | | | | (wdired-finish-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | | (wdired-abort-changes) | "C-c C-k" | | | occur | (occur-edit-mode)* | "e" | "C-x C-q" | | | (occur-cease-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | | n/a | | "C-c C-k" | | wgrep | (wgrep-change-to-wgrep-mode) | "C-c C-p" | "C-x C-q" | | | (wgrep-finish-edit) | "C-c C-c" | | | | (wgrep-abort-changes) | "C-c C-k" | | |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | B. open-file-other-window | | | |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-find-file-other-window) | "o" | | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-other-window) | and "o" | | | grep | (compile-goto-error) | | "o" | |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | C. open-file-other-window-no-select | | | |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-display-file) | "C-o" | | | occur | (occur-mode-display-occurrence) | "C-o" | | | grep | n/a | | "C-o" | |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | D. open-file-this-window | | | |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-find-file) | and "f" | | | occur | n/a | | "f" | | grep | n/a | | "f" | |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | ! | Z. summary of function-assign-to- | | | |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| | dired | (dired-find-file) | and "f" | | | occur | (occur-mode-goto-occurrence-other-window) | and "o" | | | grep | (compile-goto-error) | | "o" | |--------+-------------------------------------------+---------------+-----------| From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 10 03:27:52 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2022 08:27:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53821 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nI4nw-00024m-Ls for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 03:27:52 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:45722) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nI4nu-00024V-IE for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 03:27:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=bD6gT6QcVqJfesk/iiGPO8stoxWjtcSr0werv9X8Rmo=; b=mLdV7CFMQb2cqVuz04D0SK2rbf ih4oX8rtNeIUf3GCtsVxLj3HwS1RRArnroMpGyx8VKuWilO1upIdI4wevSbFCN/SlXgHbYPwYynPM ft0pk4TjSWprn9kMiHX9yCU07fhcc0GYaTQ+3tXBxMvloRyONa8nkzrp4gMrTTuihTxI=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nI4nV-0004XH-9i; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 09:27:28 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-Now-Playing: Contriva's _If you had stayed..._: "dust" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 09:27:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sun, 22 Dec 2013 23:44:02 +0200") Message-ID: <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > I highly sympathize with your attempts to make keybindings consistent, > but please note that some existing keybindings can't be changed for > historical reasons. For example, `v' in Dired opens a f [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, Tak Kunihiro , josh@foxtail.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, roland@hack.frob.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: > I highly sympathize with your attempts to make keybindings consistent, > but please note that some existing keybindings can't be changed for > historical reasons. For example, `v' in Dired opens a file in view mode, > so often I type `v' in vc-dir, but it registers the file in version > control instead of opening in view mode. I have no idea how to avoid > this inconsistency. (I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved at the time.) If these modes were designed today, then having the keys be more consistent would indeed be a priority. However, these bindings have been around for decades, and changing them would break the muscle memory of many people, and be highly annoying, so we can't do that. Individual users are free to rebind these as they wish, of course, and somebody properly motivated could make an ELPA package to unify these bindings, but I don't think there's anything realistic that can be done on the Emacs side here, so I'm therefore closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 10 03:27:42 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2022 08:27:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53818 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nI4nm-00024G-GR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 03:27:42 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:45702) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nI4nk-00023r-Ip for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 03:27:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=/T37YVgss7hNv/fXo8+49usVkd/GjyGD3bbDaL8ZKQM=; b=It4PEruIR4alpPe7fLHdT8oS7F +LbjNnkEcZcJPwCg5EjM8q1NZT1FWMuW53rU6ico5N8CPsQ1gNTW1KpnpsjTky0TBfg1Wilu6RAGI Qo5mQgMsDDVVZUOC0cFbkwCihr5GooLjR6cvQpmBj76YdZkIzhoEDBFz1wGrXL6oOO/o=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nI4nc-0004XN-8z for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 09:27:34 +0100 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 09:27:31 +0100 Message-Id: <87r18b9le4.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #16214 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 16214 wontfix close 16214 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 16214 wontfix close 16214 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 10 04:27:09 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2022 09:27:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53963 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nI5jJ-0002M3-HI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 04:27:09 -0500 Received: from mx0b-00602c01.pphosted.com ([205.220.174.65]:55514) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nI5jH-0002Lr-9V for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 04:27:08 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (m0238150.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00602c01.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 21A90IO5024660; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 18:27:06 +0900 Received: from mlsec.cc.okayama-u.ac.jp (mlsec.cc.okayama-u.ac.jp [150.46.12.254]) by mx0a-00602c01.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3e366abttq-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 10 Feb 2022 18:27:05 +0900 Received: from jlsv301.okayama-u.ac.jp (unknown [150.46.12.5]) by mlsec.cc.okayama-u.ac.jp with smtp id 1aa3_bcf4_909a2959_9a63_43c6_b68f_259acc1d7930; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 18:26:47 +0900 Received: from localhost (unknown [172.24.1.212]) by jlsv301.okayama-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 668E9760097; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 18:26:48 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 18:26:48 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20220210.182648.1097580738655478968.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> To: larsi@gnus.org Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode From: Tak Kunihiro In-Reply-To: <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> References: <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 11 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 4 Rules triggered EDT_SA_AU_PASS=0, EDT_SA_DN_PASS=0, EDT_SA_TS_TEMP_ERROR=0, RV6980=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6980> : inlines <7226> : streams <1905255> : uri <3363124> X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 0JAsTHxks15idsFy63_MmwdTw14k33aM X-Proofpoint-GUID: 0JAsTHxks15idsFy63_MmwdTw14k33aM X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10253 signatures=673431 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=326 clxscore=1011 phishscore=4 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2201110000 definitions=main-2202100050 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: roland@hack.frob.com, 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, josh@foxtail.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> I highly sympathize with your attempts to make keybindings consistent, >> but please note that some existing keybindings can't be changed for >> historical reasons. For example, `v' in Dired opens a file in view mode, >> so often I type `v' in vc-dir, but it registers the file in version >> control instead of opening in view mode. I have no idea how to avoid >> this inconsistency. > > Individual users are free to rebind these as they wish, of course, and > somebody properly motivated could make an ELPA package to unify these > bindings, ... I agree. I have configured mine and I am satisfied with it. However, I remember now, how hard it was. As context menu was introduced, it is good for Emacs to be friendly. To have an ELPA package to offer a minor mode to offer consistent key bindings is a good idea. How about listing this project to (info "(emacs) Contributing")? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 10 06:37:44 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2022 11:37:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54165 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nI7lg-0006O2-Nl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 06:37:44 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47690) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nI7lc-0006Nl-Vt for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 06:37:43 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=HrPMWIHJaX8fF+5QcTpF2YtzLKo6a6Wws6Qo3RIL/jI=; b=dyU0p5BCHxLz+LPy/cngd/ZWfW RHuYv0MYnl2maXvn4XzcCFkeVQkwY0b5wiSUZgNvUFU0DQPiCP6U/fdwhtPq0DvLUgSTP2g33N/+1 ULsic+prArRGc18eZHU3Rk/Mva0IeAKW/FC3T2ByErHHdPrtIOGzpF7wspqYzftxDlaU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nI7lF-000657-Vu; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:37:21 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Tak Kunihiro Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode References: <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> <20220210.182648.1097580738655478968.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAG1BMVEVHJR9AKixHJBtm gJus3PWsrq2/YCvjn2L///8rhcJvAAAAAWJLR0QIht6VegAAAAd0SU1FB+YCCgsRATE/HVwAAAGX SURBVDjLdZRdbsMgDIBptAs0ygEI1d63LNrzopjxOk3QHmCFXCBprj+DIdA/S+0Dn2x/GAhjD2O3 Z+JhcPYEIBHtR4p9Xmc7JnrY4o1XrKo4q3ybFsDEgJGWKFoYXYweOlqLGTKBcwBYimgPCfzBUGyl auAzERjKfTRwdG5aQneZzN8Z4wf4ds5Is7lpbczYErDKZ+HP2aM5zc4NCLyWNUZarWCFWSkltfnF Hl5r1lJqrWfQYH21uYvAmJM5LiiwGLssk5yZB6glc+8QQxj7AdRmBGRbswimFePip1Wn/SFArZXi ck5jDEBoORFwFr4K4LVihgVsyzeAWrHWCiMvSr1moGVRCqelNgB1kZG11jlreWt/uiS2wE8B6HQD CVoZNFAjudHyE3jxxz5FUPYIpzvdaHnQepB8u6JUuI3Tja8IWjKuo2/SIgBph0vU2tHDaeB0N0Yh nkzrHnQZPBwj3W4tc/ehAFda0VckrbgTl7QIHEDmJ4pvfAPlox64yBn4GUgZeD95Aa6/IyVgVfjH N16JJxm0/g/Ah/XmIQnAfgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wMi0xMFQxMToxNzowMSsw MDowMBRilT4AAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDItMTBUMTE6MTc6MDErMDA6MDBlPy2C AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Instant Life's _I turned my best friends into slaves_: "Dancecop" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:37:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20220210.182648.1097580738655478968.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> (Tak Kunihiro's message of "Thu, 10 Feb 2022 18:26:48 +0900 (JST)") Message-ID: <87ee4b7y1e.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Tak Kunihiro writes: > To have an ELPA package to offer a minor mode to offer consistent key > bindings is a good idea. > > How about listing this project to (info "(emacs) Contributing")? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: juri@jurta.org, 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, josh@foxtail.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, roland@hack.frob.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Tak Kunihiro writes: > To have an ELPA package to offer a minor mode to offer consistent key > bindings is a good idea. > > How about listing this project to (info "(emacs) Contributing")? It's not something that we'd have in Emacs itself, so I don't think listing it there would be appropriate. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 11 00:54:21 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Feb 2022 05:54:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57990 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nIOsu-0003XC-V1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2022 00:54:21 -0500 Received: from mx0a-00602c01.pphosted.com ([205.220.162.67]:41838) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nIOsr-0003X2-Og for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2022 00:54:19 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (m0238149.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00602c01.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 21AJiJOO026074; Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:54:16 +0900 Received: from mlsec.cc.okayama-u.ac.jp (mlsec.cc.okayama-u.ac.jp [150.46.12.254]) by mx0a-00602c01.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3e367u4tv5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:54:15 +0900 Received: from jlsv301.okayama-u.ac.jp (unknown [150.46.12.5]) by mlsec.cc.okayama-u.ac.jp with smtp id 39bd_566b_80426fa1_457f_4348_b156_17e3ec572649; Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:54:00 +0900 Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [172.24.1.212]) by jlsv301.okayama-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5576676022D; Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:54:00 +0900 (JST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.60.0.1.1\)) Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode From: Tak Kunihiro In-Reply-To: <87ee4b7y1e.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:54:00 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8FFF7608-EE7B-4C89-9307-2D2DADBFB213@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> References: <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> <20220210.182648.1097580738655478968.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ee4b7y1e.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.60.0.1.1) X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 11 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 5 Rules triggered GME_TWTRE=0.1, EDT_SA_AU_PASS=0, EDT_SA_DN_PASS=0, EDT_SA_TS_TEMP_ERROR=0, RV6980=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6980> : inlines <7226> : streams <1905255> : uri <3363594> X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: jsDd__5DssBtsPy0n2KjCwOJq8BJ6T6g X-Proofpoint-GUID: jsDd__5DssBtsPy0n2KjCwOJq8BJ6T6g X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10254 signatures=673431 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=516 lowpriorityscore=0 clxscore=1015 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2201110000 definitions=main-2202110031 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: roland@hack.frob.com, 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, =?utf-8?B?5Zu95bqD5Y2T5Lmf?= , josh@foxtail.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> To have an ELPA package to offer a minor mode to offer consistent key >> bindings is a good idea. >>=20 >> How about listing this project to (info "(emacs) Contributing")? >=20 > It's not something that we'd have in Emacs itself, so I don't think > listing it there would be appropriate. I agree. Then how about 'emacs/etc/TODO=E2=80=99? Is there a good place? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 11 22:57:45 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2022 03:57:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33088 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nIjXd-0002Vv-0a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:57:45 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42650) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nIjXV-0002VP-DR for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:57:43 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=51096 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nIjXM-00027c-7k; Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:57:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=8DHO2GD6n6ECuHKlbKHb4b8bKFnlJW8nCmXnHRqSTeo=; b=Vpl5Z0QVSaIz 9B9BBvWCV/7pH+uu+dQmyf9jIqJhItgQPYo84xvnMsyzCZto7axS+2P6UVf5cfaWOho8N1eFUqGi7 ndulynXHh6EaQ3eW56T3YGMy31PDeV88hQGN2yelhaLn2A7Y6QU2SN34B5CcHzEUlMCYDZ64Lve+m WCwEHt5dGTBN2PRbr1URu+SFJqTRy3zWSERUXiau+DW96PnVbKalPjZGXD7TtJfe2TE03TBTSSEV9 e6GFCBx1vXVsKZbn9qtM8Pgn7P0OtAe09QFk90RCQRar7/4IOgBqdtxdKy2wjHmqpBMP7xx6UjKAN e5j7v/medQLV8Cfmmo1zNg==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nIjXL-00056r-BW; Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:57:27 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Thu, 10 Feb 2022 09:27:24 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:57:27 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: juri@jurta.org, 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, josh@foxtail.org, roland@hack.frob.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > For example, `v' in Dired opens a file in view mode, > > so often I type `v' in vc-dir, but it registers the file in version > > control instead of opening in view mode. I have no idea how to avoid > > this inconsistency. I suspect that v in vc-dir is used rarely enough that people would not object to a change. But there is nothing in Dired comparable to "registering" a file, so whatever key vc-dir uses for this will not be comparable to the meaning of that same key in Dired. So maybe this mini-problem can't be avoided. Maybe a better fix would be to make v in vc-dir ask for confirmation. (I don't know whether it already does that; I may never have used it.) At least this way typing v by mistake won't cause much trouble. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 12 03:17:28 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2022 08:17:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33347 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nInay-00068H-FF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 03:17:28 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:53155) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nInat-0005zO-7T for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 03:17:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1644653816; bh=0dY8pQpRkNpXV9c2kM/QNp1ZOzqRvdxP+l0XhpdfLyo=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=eWsBbAMxM2CvFql6v8Ehtl+pNcK+bbyOdXVXp7W64YF+17Tu7G7bVWrE9OUhvPIL5 ixE08Dzx+MxccN5tHm4otwZ6pRbsuRCMukx7QYOyarPmjWSlRbSbmT6LfhA2yjcuxJ 7GPI+haimDyn4aLkooa3feJBgLJVIEz0CfCcNvw4= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([79.140.118.86]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N7zFZ-1oM1Vk3cIN-0150Gi; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:16:56 +0100 From: Michael Albinus To: Richard Stallman Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:16:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:57:27 -0500") Message-ID: <877da04hzi.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:b539mFceJj0iPZ77LFQHYqAR78EvuMApPwaJnY68V9MYXZqU5Qv m4jkKBBNbsaHOZX+E2t+P2SjiMq/nEn8Cv3sSzP4tUC/EIfx+HTV3Ox2R9zw6yvMHBLZP3b TWYCMFOok5yNMFL6SbD3swsK6DZQeBFBfEruRiP+A3OqaNZ8Tlq5bunkDpZYN0AbnP2WF72 jWoQ6z9rYHMbn4zyQDZvw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:tO9K8gGi3rw=:Op2Bcefp+luNXYYFRGboVw RPQ2acSvQUyJM3vSlE1Bd6tCcfqUTLM1SF9tlUp/ntP7ciaTLLhoi3k6ASsD0cvqZ6u18m8iS x1U7rbDg3l46st19OPU+GZezXiC2NqfkDFJdqY/ViZbgsPvo5hZ4QrFRc3zwOpKSYk3LKsbQM rShinr6xevrAkXp1fCR06Kel2VAtQwpsUhyWDUrAuLwNxxb7ZkG/c96WBVQ/EwGozblLTpJcT pSzUltnRL7CQ2yxXN/Vy08UrIYvX3sfiRCvLEKRWY7nZk8HeaZzF9JSCcBD4wy90+aRC+Do1n VJGQtB5v/yniuby4bj4lf4bIZEdnjnJRXBT00N9Q4fBltf/k4iy+lxDDVDUQcRz23sIiZ6x58 DxRZ+kN6vKZERMCx91JEjd6XAFLLW2HvAiyrcWcOoQJeqjE2ZpJHADnmCyjAyBJ02aFeVkqBZ A9hiaHlf9B1wXOBTtdtRxaOOQCCblGN0JAjLD++jRA9vdH8K1V1KNBoz+mTfT3xcrSLk4I7wJ 2S3QSifz+TWp7Nu1WXpichfFRbGweDZQ6hSYWGjlCsEz/Qms2IAYL8vhttlSoJ2dPbGcWqMfM K/V1uL7PQPnaFZx8fiql+/29icBc/2wia2Ppqn8DtGPMB+GUJhTFtkEZdYeiTCeF1yIYOUhcT N7K3CP9mm+u3lsAX6Jl4XabRbwg7J3G+eUEymX8V6kkxMwh0gCLJCaME/Gl6rUvOBN4QcuYkd f24Ne2EoesmDNujf1q6dS6Q50xohwIwwk6BNebc//nwmUeH7ykGpagbeDiO/lyOi6b+Nsd7ki dRMYz2xinftevT88+vHfZ4syyrTZ3nEJjmvLYcXcA+B+SwF/M53FSnZnHPvmsi6+Gpy6IAGcn cmV9W8DWUj1S0AIEVY2nkhs7ZEEj3cvqqi1zFmYSR3znl4ULjMx250JqKks70t54dnI3gyg3M QtntkMYQKjNxqs1qFH5Km/Ktq0MMRmdSOvK59GFzDAOEfoEDWw4eCD/E4Hqiibo4hiUv1jmrd 2i8fwIPmqqTkSr1gNoYSV2ZGnnlbbWq3MOTW0OLrfy5QNsuh9le1P5A4gwjheWg7LNhb07J0e Qr+nk/Dgnip8wA= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen , tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, josh@foxtail.org, roland@hack.frob.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Richard Stallman writes: Hi Richard, > > For example, `v' in Dired opens a file in view mode, > > > so often I type `v' in vc-dir, but it registers the file in version > > > control instead of opening in view mode. I have no idea how to avoid > > > this inconsistency. > > I suspect that v in vc-dir is used rarely enough that people would > not object to a change. I use it every single day, and often. Like other people who aren't using magit (but I don't know whether this are many people these days). > Maybe a better fix would be to make v in vc-dir ask for confirmation. > (I don't know whether it already does that; I may never have used it.) > At least this way typing v by mistake won't cause much trouble. There is already some interactive ping-pong, because you have to provide some text, depending on what vc-next-action (the command bound to v in vc-dir) intends to do. Best regards, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 12 14:12:22 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2022 19:12:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35664 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nIxoj-0001Oy-QI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 14:12:22 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:55376) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nIxoh-0001Op-NL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 14:12:20 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56776) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nIxoh-0001Ja-I3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 14:12:19 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:45262) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nIxod-0005hg-0E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 14:12:16 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nIxoZ-0002Zq-8Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 20:12:11 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2022 14:12:01 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:5cmmC1xYbeWvfhi71T63WBdHLZM= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > If these modes were designed today, then having the keys be more > consistent would indeed be a priority. However, these bindings have > been around for decades, and changing them would break the muscle memory > of many people, and be highly annoying, so we can't do that. I understand though am diaappointed. I'd argue my muscle memory would be improved if I didn't have to remember three different sets of some these similar bindings. And of course existing users are able to rebind them if they wish and are certainly more able to do so than new users. But this argument has been made before. > Individual users are free to rebind these as they wish, of course, and > somebody properly motivated could make an ELPA package to unify these > bindings, but I don't think there's anything realistic that can be done > on the Emacs side here, so I'm therefore closing this bug report. FWIW I do the following: (with-eval-after-load 'grep-mode (define-key grep-mode-map (kbd "o") #'compile-goto-error) (define-key grep-mode-map (kbd "C-o") #'compilation-display-error)) I think adding these binding to emacs wouldn't break any muscle memory and would unify at least two categories. I'd also love to see one common way of entering wdired, occur-edit and wgrep. The burden of maintaining this muscle memory is IMHO silly. -- Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 12 15:43:42 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2022 20:43:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35743 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nIzF8-0003fz-C4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 15:43:42 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:37512) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nIzF5-0003fq-Sv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 15:43:41 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42652) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nIzF5-0005sU-Ga for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 15:43:39 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:50760) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nIzF4-0000Tq-5f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 15:43:39 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nIzEx-0000Cy-Tg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2022 21:43:31 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2022 15:43:27 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:vF3gXakCDP2DZGAsyxjus5aFSbs= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) Howard Melman writes: > I'd also love to see one common way of entering wdired, > occur-edit and wgrep. The burden of maintaining this muscle > memory is IMHO silly. Actually, I this think is still viable: > To have consistency on edition of buffer at dired-/occur-/grep-mode, > (1) addition of two key-binds, "e" to both (dired-toggle-read-only) > and (wgrep-change-to-wgrep-mode) In occur-mode `e` already enters `occur-edit mode`. In grep-mode `e` is unbound. `wgrep` is in nongnu elpa so I don't know if `grep-mode` can reference it. But if not, perhaps it could reserve this key for a wgrep-like function with a comment. `wgrep` could be updated to add the binding or just document it as a possibility. In dired-mode `dired-toggle-read-only` is bound to `C-x C-q` and `dired-find-file` is bound to `e`, `f` *and* `RET` (and `f` is the one the emacs manual mentions first). If just `e` were changed to invoke `dired-toggle-read-only` then existing users in `dired-mode` can still use `f` and `RET` to edit a file or rebind `e`. Changing just one binding which already has two other equally convenient (single key) and intuitive bindings doesn't seem too invasive IMHO to fix something that, as you say, if it were designed today would indeed be a priority. -- Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 13 23:13:31 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2022 04:13:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39383 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nJSjz-0006UO-Hv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:13:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55764) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nJSjv-0006U6-Nm for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:13:30 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=48828 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nJSjm-0002uV-PI; Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:13:18 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=9y3GOO3fhIAWWzv0dahaD2wywdMNvQ6K9rJ37LMpnCk=; b=MyO3cP4zVz1k uL7WhE2axR3GycmyajR7s7LSSC0IuoV89pH+MhTq7xN81aLiXU670YF+7VBU3XhbKB8J+jRC2CnqF EzP5Yj8mtfoWWYf9brV9mpUiWAXsXUS+8j3lNb0G5zYYa+2YVbD0uwvDdXBXdGihZE5Y4bPTLjBPA 9rEN9yKRk7hMxbrdgUhzpyV+hTr/HtqTUFhQIH5n5yORupyQvHxRnMiIzLVw/I76mnH/KgTniatiN Pi43tCJKoIqQ1MLokhfh6hI4MTeNKV1+Gzx+6W5yWoqzaQBsjTJKsr8kBiRxwPYRM1UE/6acOqLAV kFZ5Gt3ke/MYRPaspDUnaQ==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nJSjm-00011a-7j; Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:13:18 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Michael Albinus In-Reply-To: <877da04hzi.fsf@gmx.de> (message from Michael Albinus on Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:16:49 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> <877da04hzi.fsf@gmx.de> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:13:18 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, josh@foxtail.org, roland@hack.frob.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I suspect that v in vc-dir is used rarely enough that people would > > not object to a change. > I use it every single day, and often. Like other people who aren't using > magit (but I don't know whether this are many people these days). I am not sure how to interpret that. Are you saying that you intentionally type v (in vc-dir) every day? Or that you accidentally type v (in vc-dir) every day? I it is the former, I am surprised that you create a new file every day. When I was working on software, I would make changes every day, but new files were rare. How is it that you have such frequent occasions to put a new file into version control? I'd like to understand what leads to this. > > Maybe a better fix would be to make v in vc-dir ask for confirmation. > > (I don't know whether it already does that; I may never have used it.) > > At least this way typing v by mistake won't cause much trouble. > There is already some interactive ping-pong, because you have to provide > some text, depending on what vc-next-action (the command bound to v in > vc-dir) intends to do. That being so, I would surmise that when you type v by accident, nothing very bad happens -- you get asked for input and you type C-g, right? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 13 23:14:17 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2022 04:14:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39388 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nJSki-0006Vw-Tc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:14:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55986) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nJSkh-0006Vj-15 for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:14:15 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=48898 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nJSkb-00032c-QH; Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:14:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=c5q7LvoF4szlzWbHQ0so/1MyvvzxUvLj36sg3WQcVUA=; b=TMv1GtRwWTqq j+TUCZSkqFxnvrWsZ5uThbzOGqbPWoaIkenA1UjCFelkFHRmK5L5kjWU8zGV9DQLpZd2xwZ+nOyQV y8tCpcEFwrXniz8WDl3QfkcdkYBtvqD4cbIeWN3c2ycHcZcwEslRhnW62EzFPkcc/iID0Ag6TQ06f LGEVF1ZDLXwxFSQpUjogmtPKpx34ZsyRtvIrUghnq2gD7WEQC0Ufi+Br7MYguBJHYa/SsvAPzTUzS pmuLJ5lAVdrWSRkHmiHZqeZvnTtzB7p7d6IvtMlGbEsma5d1DNE2UoqaMpLD8czGdgQrMPuTCJYlU 16YM0lsxD79EBSiUvJqS0A==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nJSkb-0001Jr-EJ; Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:14:09 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: (message from Howard Melman on Sat, 12 Feb 2022 15:43:27 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:14:09 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > In grep-mode `e` is unbound. `wgrep` is in nongnu elpa so I don't > know if `grep-mode` can reference it. But if not, perhaps it could > reserve this key for a wgrep-like function with a comment. `wgrep` > could be updated to add the binding or just document it as a > possibility. Thanks for being sensitive to this important point. NonGNU ELPA are for add-ons that are not part of GNU Emacs. To keep ourselves honest, we shouldn't treat them as part of it for one purpose while treating them as not part of it for another purpose. We can't have it both ways. So we shouldn't design Grep mode based on presuming that wgrep is part of the editor. If we want to have that, we should do the work to make that functionality available within GNU Emacs. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 14 01:52:42 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2022 06:52:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39580 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nJVE2-0002K9-5m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2022 01:52:42 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:46839) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nJVDz-0002Js-8z for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2022 01:52:40 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1644821533; bh=oaKDlXVuWMRm6uUH4pmakkr9ZHlNOOz+RPjoK3yJ8DQ=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=XZeVzl/46QyRFxFjVSJj7LzTsbT8QBF6ylMEm0QkcSIoWMSmRZQe1u3uY2DCi6+lp V61O7xmLk71RPDiNpdk8h686uqS6lTBQtk3sejw2pHAIbPczAJ0neS8pNOaOKNLIlY L30cCpPYqfkRWzoFlYQpus/d4+3OS+WaBSJeYCu8= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([213.220.158.128]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MbAci-1nqM3p24Ea-00bXsp; Mon, 14 Feb 2022 07:52:13 +0100 From: Michael Albinus To: Richard Stallman Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> <877da04hzi.fsf@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 07:52:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:13:18 -0500") Message-ID: <87k0dyx7ms.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:pklAl/WAQZlCG72OLzja3w+jXC5mkcQEwfw3BwaMPr8re10yRxm 6+NaOmGnawE8e7M8oBqfWjvZlpJygRSpK/jl5b8UDn7c0KxzvHafNcjS41OFYdhmuHzBgiW DVfpUxx52kV7hzhiDm6R/Bz8ItKSk9LVMIrg16Sa1dDXtrcmV8QuFv/jOXEkKXuCvsUkhL3 pwk5ZIFeas4aLkyF3PkrA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ugE+R5sSatQ=:kvd9At7rPdlLezveqqaNNn OMXXxdI7CfGGg9+mN/2xRtITxXDMO2CXzLRs91upcyQhaRQOpqnexQfB6/4uMdMj6jTisg0dj +VgWN3wmqAGVvN3oeOkgoCR/up6TDih3f0qayaI+tzq72Ne21h4JXiuHOLFk9Uga+4NL7dopn 6vwb3reS12mOWL71MKXP9qCngfKkwo8oUeVAdX0zRvsb9Ph9er27KuqvaMxiUif0tOLDVPQEE vjnhshRVkjcP2NFt2UIw/VqprVvqSTo2T62tNVS8gcPAsGU3Y8lwK/qpcYoP4zFHCphnPd0SM zuWoVR1/kZjOJAruGfT/MiEqFbyS2PpSlye/MM/SRGKl1wSW43RXQqKDyU+zhV8RLx6cwmVls TQDXxYO7DN+p1IH29O2k6KLdEFbrbvyjtyswu3UrXMiM6dtjsB/1Qj5NsstcA3pMqsSjxIwul JYvu9iGj5UyS5HSfIyQZA4iAPzhaI3IbjDVMdxgZ7X5qfLFUFJHrJZKPorg/bH0Pr1UDN2h7x bGyLZJIbXPRtbHrnhQ59qqMPt32DiM4hGYGEfMUALZvVlEuMPRxFwSAe9exxCxcZqfMtGmXmU j5BD/DWAeioezHzSSL2hz3/R+ch7ZohJMgqsM1n39zS5gV11NRdSAGsx0loVMQ+dxN/6YfTWF FuSuk0g+7AlmyWObmTRYnBghhNXurrGp8X4UQ/7cVj/Iis9UWXgXaN2pgAs4X3pvwbrSivmov rPQ7VT4tqA52Mu4kpfhMm0Q0wW6dkC78VwyRC2HMYt0zaIWvelGHBtUuOSgi21UXneT5qCamZ bHhINJpWI78UlE9/Ta3u3QAhCwTCz6AoxFHFYzSIi+Z0yBADsAGHHSC5kDocnIlxbZx36NUrG 5liLYglYF8YpSs1odp+tn8QX0dLGBYq3cxiyLsNBYhKBjRR8nCOlh+2hhQr9tNbaaqgGfaau5 F9uMSHLYz4+NjPi2i+jVtKcHfR9j1luFzbK/+7jXaxOtZXvQ+o1/8xHeBZhaj5iJ++EcBI4z/ 0L/mzO0Tb4CfekkebT9Xt1muA/i0oAhb/sR+6NeInGf9fHnsAtB0RUeII2vmDbMxo8EX/PG28 88wlIEalNH9PDU= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, josh@foxtail.org, roland@hack.frob.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Richard Stallman writes: Hi Richard, > > > I suspect that v in vc-dir is used rarely enough that people would > > > not object to a change. > > > I use it every single day, and often. Like other people who aren't using > > magit (but I don't know whether this are many people these days). > > I am not sure how to interpret that. Are you saying that > you intentionally type v (in vc-dir) every day? > Or that you accidentally type v (in vc-dir) every day? The former. > I it is the former, I am surprised that you create a new file every > day. When I was working on software, I would make changes every day, > but new files were rare. How is it that you have such frequent > occasions to put a new file into version control? I'd like to > understand what leads to this. 'v' in vc-dired means 'vc-next-action'. It does whatever vc command is appropriate at the given context. In my use case, I apply it in order to commit a file or fileset. Every single day. > > > Maybe a better fix would be to make v in vc-dir ask for confirmation. > > > (I don't know whether it already does that; I may never have used it.) > > > At least this way typing v by mistake won't cause much trouble. > > > There is already some interactive ping-pong, because you have to provide > > some text, depending on what vc-next-action (the command bound to v in > > vc-dir) intends to do. > > That being so, I would surmise that when you type v by accident, > nothing very bad happens -- you get asked for input and you type C-g, > right? Yes. That's why I vote to keep the 'v' key binding for vc-dired buffers. Best regards, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 14 23:30:25 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2022 04:30:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43222 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nJpTt-0002yC-EY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2022 23:30:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51360) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nJpTs-0002xw-49 for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2022 23:30:24 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=47110 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nJpTa-0006QN-LI; Mon, 14 Feb 2022 23:30:13 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=ILo0eA0zVbwGgyCLypjqNrjDejn507WGz/2IqmBduxM=; b=CHeBjFIEHmoH KQ861p2UvTZXfYc+tYBctnJgsb0SeK4IWO5vBETwNLFeyJpEoQWgjxyz/eVuGsdjAGHVlj5knZjc8 UQvf9DBNrKCMHCZ8BvjUBWC7wqfPHRnP1JFmTeFxebMKlztwHxJZB5BswwwMiO6vkTi/H+TlRiqH2 WgMhWACRirzBp3TcrX4kaK0UjvYLYqD44HVj/VyOp2m03f15JfOY2/w8sjEMB/GixYkEu2CJhOepe FELTG18J/GIuAj5e3B7iC0ujdoi8Rzdexp2Ti8hHjm4hIQEFPo3F2hxZIlv5WjbKSGCpAu/x/gv7+ iRCVD6/N9y0Djui5GiN/6g==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nJpTV-0007RX-GO; Mon, 14 Feb 2022 23:30:02 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Michael Albinus In-Reply-To: <87k0dyx7ms.fsf@gmx.de> (message from Michael Albinus on Mon, 14 Feb 2022 07:52:11 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> <877da04hzi.fsf@gmx.de> <87k0dyx7ms.fsf@gmx.de> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 23:30:01 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, josh@foxtail.org, roland@hack.frob.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I it is the former, I am surprised that you create a new file every > > day. When I was working on software, I would make changes every day, > > but new files were rare. How is it that you have such frequent > > occasions to put a new file into version control? I'd like to > > understand what leads to this. > 'v' in vc-dired means 'vc-next-action'. It does whatever vc command is > appropriate at the given context. In my use case, I apply it in order to > commit a file or fileset. Every single day. Boy am I spaced! I knew that command, but didn't recall it. All I was thinking about was the previous messages which talked about v as registering a file. Sorry for the confusion. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 17 11:29:12 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Feb 2022 16:29:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52547 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nKjeZ-0003AW-Qn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 11:29:12 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:60104) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nKjeY-0003AN-Gg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 11:29:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46016) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nKjeY-00038r-B0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 11:29:10 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:39456) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nKjeW-0003Aa-Pl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 11:29:10 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nKjeT-0004yv-UK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 17:29:05 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 11:28:59 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:GCaznLwNNIrzJ/e1NGYdJB8j/ig= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) I wish this got more traction so here's a small concrete proposal. I think in all three RET already opens the file or line under point (in dired changing the current window, in grep and occur in another window, at least for me on the macport of Emacs 27.2). No changes here. With this one change, o in any of them will open the thing in another window and select that window: (define-key compilation-minor-mode-map (kbd "o") #'compile-goto-error) C-o in all three already opens the thing in another window but not select it, no changes here. I propose no change to C-x C-q in any of the modes, some want just to toggle read-only, dired already enters wdired. This makes e enter a writable version of all three modes. Reserve e in grep-mode (it's already unbound) for a writable version like wdired or occur-edit via a comment or documentation, no code change, no need to mention wgrep in emacs proper. The wgrep package or users can perhaps bind e to wgrep-change-to-wgrep-mode. Make one incompatible change to dired: (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "e") #'dired-toggle-read-only) Dired users with existing muscle memory to enter wdired via C-x C-q are unchanged. Dired users that use f or RET to edit a file are unchanged; those that use e to edit a file will have to change or bind this themselves. The emacs manual already documents using f to find a file from dired and describes RET and e, in that order, as duplicates of f. With this, e will change to be a duplicate of C-x C-q. In all three you use C-c C-c to apply the edits, no changes here. That's it. 1 comment, 1 new binding and 1 changed binding that already has two other equally convenient (single key) and intuitive bindings. This would make RET, o, C-o, and e consistent in all three as well as saving changes via C-c C-c. I think this will be much easier for new and existing users to remember. -- Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 17 12:13:07 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Feb 2022 17:13:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52616 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nKkL5-0006ZV-69 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 12:13:07 -0500 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:28850) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nKkL1-0006ZK-Ig for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 12:13:05 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246629.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 21HGUh5B021431; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 17:13:02 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2021-07-09; 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Thu, 17 Feb 2022 17:12:57 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Howard Melman , "16214@debbugs.gnu.org" <16214@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: RE: [External] : bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode Thread-Index: AQHYJBwmV8qA6EIr7U+BqbyPE8ALsKyX9Ciw Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 17:12:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 48a27637-3a8d-47bc-5d15-08d9f238be98 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CH2PR10MB4166:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 48a27637-3a8d-47bc-5d15-08d9f238be98 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Feb 2022 17:12:57.8445 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: YYDplcw8Bl1t1j7vw7iDUdAtRk51rV+Q53ZCr9tnY8aZMyOM2toWTZ9zJler3q/UJj7bH6Oxbf1M+AgWPItZbA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR10MB4166 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10261 signatures=677564 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2201110000 definitions=main-2202170078 X-Proofpoint-GUID: _30TZYIeaOPJkt7-gbdfqqHS61wfp5Xy X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: _30TZYIeaOPJkt7-gbdfqqHS61wfp5Xy X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Dired users with existing muscle memory to enter wdired via > C-x C-q are unchanged. Dired users that use f or RET to > edit a file are unchanged; those that use e to edit a file > will have to change or bind this themselves. The emacs > manual already documents using f to find a file from dired > and describes RET and e, in that order, as duplicates of f. > With this, e will change to be a duplicate of C-x C-q. FWIW - I don't think `e' in Dired should do what `C-x C-q' does. I don't think we ever need a duplicate default binding for what `C-x C-q' does. Dired can do lots of things, and can have _lots_ of default key bindings. I don't see a good reason to try to make its bindings correspond to those of `occur' or `grep-mode'. Same thing for those two modes - they can have lots of bindings that are specific to their own features. We gave global key bindings for a reason. That's the place to provide keys we want to be common across modes (by default). ___ FWIW, in Dired+ `e' isn't the same as `f'. `e' is instead a toggle for showing the file: View the file on this line in another window in the same frame. If it was not already shown there then kill the previous buffer visited by a `diredp-visit-*' command. If it was already shown there, and if it and Dired are the only windows there, then delete its window (toggle : show/hide the file). Commands `diredp-visit-(next|previous)-file' are bound to `C-(down|up)'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 19 20:43:18 2022 Received: (at 16214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2022 01:43:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59011 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nLbFu-0007BZ-2U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:43:18 -0500 Received: from mail-pg1-f181.google.com ([209.85.215.181]:39476) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nLbFs-0007BL-F0 for 16214@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:43:16 -0500 Received: by mail-pg1-f181.google.com with SMTP id 195so11149399pgc.6 for <16214@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:43:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=R0URapbh8LF6/4lrKhQjz4R7ESdZixWj8h3RMIJpJPI=; b=Nc/LiXyRqUtpVkSAksBLqL8BG56UsLbPf8exewXt9Vt6xYEDX8jf9YLBdj+ocL/9Uj H7w7WK1stloLHwHbN3A51gJSgz90O+iVaHK9RqXytr7FbBpsQu8JEk8XSFbuinqo3as/ qb3NaQ+FobSJ2SvSJAFFBWjemNezLzo9AQvPxMFh34o2ERJZpdUcYvzZFX/RWPQ5wZ27 P0CPB/kiyUJmPXkFpYt7jFLILH13e1R+64JBCLr5Hsxy+jNS3NNivrj4fiyhtKMrPipW u3yqseyc8MovYux6+Kz5VEjqwAgQfyhYWEStNI0soGCux/NfF3FUNfrjTN6U/yrzp8un fLiw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=R0URapbh8LF6/4lrKhQjz4R7ESdZixWj8h3RMIJpJPI=; b=Z2tmpoxwC8tF3wcFMiwgcC5HVpvHqUb3GuNCaNs3OmbJPBmLovHdswA5yKPKAx0bbK Yr1GPLtE0Csbi7frWaxpXNeXINmLedqQtPQV73Uz1CpNYe3P3Vco47BkubfkbgDXxjBB zhVqBVysH/LNU2Ne0uggseIowM4/9cVhDawgc5ifjp29FBUhwmwdfOp3EisO2sHrnYcS 5NdjfhFBTPrO+qvtEKcVJW7E/qeo3JFHECobaoMz3Zh+0AiDIBGG17Sh90I+ncaBqNLM wFXjRNOFMYPb+N3tIirl5JVb/0b3Wj96lC9Lp0ErAcR2x/AgcbfwATqHm/z9geiARh7T C2Dg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532TfZ0jK4jamI8ME9XtawTLoPs7gCYRnach7KOVARGQ92C42Kbb TKfWDRR/xSyTg6D4D/jjW2QwMRB9H1M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwcpGsYXa2s4JoYo9mytaXS92COxEgWYpAB7oI+oLVEzsMymaxhcEiPrNgbBFGykuI08xh/Tw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:43:b0:4ca:a64b:434d with SMTP id i3-20020a056a00004300b004caa64b434dmr14118935pfk.32.1645321390356; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:43:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from DreamMini2019.local ([150.46.201.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f19sm398892pfc.110.2022.02.19.17.43.08 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:43:09 -0800 (PST) From: Tak Kunihiro X-Google-Original-From: Tak Kunihiro To: 16214@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 10:43:07 +0900 In-Reply-To: (Howard Melman's message of "Thu, 17 Feb 2022 11:28:59 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16214 Cc: , tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > I think this will be much easier for new and existing users to > remember. Good idea. However, to change default is another step. I think that the first step is (1) to write a global minor mode to provide the consistent keymap. (2) Then install on ELPA. After a while, (3) include in main body. (4) After a while, suggest to turn the minor mode on by default. I cannot initiate such project now. Thus I want to post this project in somewhere so that someone who wants to contribute Emacs can notice this. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 20 13:17:30 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2022 18:17:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33690 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nLqm1-0001XP-TW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:17:30 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:53828) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nLqm0-0001XI-R5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:17:29 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40450) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nLqlz-00012L-AX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:17:28 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:49636) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nLqlx-0004Lp-S4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:17:27 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nLqlu-0009vg-QT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 19:17:22 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#16214: Consistency in dired-, occur-, and grep-mode Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:17:14 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20131221.224043.270400015.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87sitl51un.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20131222.204850.283027925.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <87ppoo8srl.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87sfsr9leb.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:24g3WxeCKS/1PeULFf+0a7259UA= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) Tak Kunihiro writes: >> I think this will be much easier for new and existing users to >> remember. > > Good idea. Thanks. > However, to change default is another step. I think that the > first step is (1) to write a global minor mode to provide the consistent > keymap. (2) Then install on ELPA. After a while, (3) include in main > body. (4) After a while, suggest to turn the minor mode on by default. > > I cannot initiate such project now. Thus I want to post this project in > somewhere so that someone who wants to contribute Emacs can notice this. This seems like an awful lot of overhead to change one binding that already has two other similar bindings that aren't changing. -- Howard From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:06:27 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator