From jasonspiro@gmail.com Wed Dec 17 21:14:33 2008 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 18 Dec 2008 05:14:33 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=4.0 tests=GMAIL,HAS_PACKAGE autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mBI5EUCV000683 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:14:31 -0800 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LDBDR-0004hw-CM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:14:29 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LDBDP-0004cl-4k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:14:28 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43943 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LDBDO-0004cW-RY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:14:26 -0500 Received: from mail-gx0-f16.google.com ([209.85.217.16]:62099) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LDBDO-0003lZ-Hp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:14:26 -0500 Received: by gxk9 with SMTP id 9so210162gxk.18 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:14:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=0gfBjO7MSqlkEdWEYkGTGb052a34uQeiTjPJ5FjIOM8=; b=qiJLsparJF3RLpQeFOOnaUgyBF+eY77n4bInChSisz7gpuEaKZ0/M7bBsQJbZ+9Rmz mee8X8Xoh9qU8387BLTE4DPwX9SEzUsDcV9GbiDeTN60iw+e7JKTDU/F8BOf3hlgcY5H KTUk1u9r3EMzaGRwZRw+CzbyxCU55Iwpx6sWQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=pz3sShKidlfX2XKsI7meU8OMyCvoaPe0s5pmtShEj04xWMGSjN21nOPNQAU9V+izzV DdpBBJsKsao5vCfeLXIrR5UHCuQpJR4RCQiZct2XftkgZe1NJg7kat++/+7WMSt24T5m vruI+v5BtO6FIdJ9M41hy0Fg5/fvM0OAhr+gY= Received: by 10.90.80.18 with SMTP id d18mr891165agb.71.1229577265366; Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:14:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.120.1 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:14:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:14:25 -0500 From: "Jason A. Spiro" Sender: jasonspiro@gmail.com To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file In-Reply-To: <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 15949b46b5e2a478 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Package: emacs Severity: wishlist Feature request forwarded from https://launchpad.net/bugs/99634 : ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jason Spiro Date: 2007/3/31 Subject: [Bug 99634] Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file To: jasonspiro3@gmail.com Public bug reported: Binary package hint: emacs-snapshot I wanted to set Emacs to use cperl-mode instead of perl-mode, but I didn't know how. It turns out the answer was in the cperl-tips section on line 710 of the file. Please move the cperl micro-docs from the middle of the cperl-mode.el Elisp file to the top of the file. This will make more people see them. From monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Thu Dec 18 13:39:47 2008 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 18 Dec 2008 21:39:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER,XIRONPORT autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mBILdi11027257 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:39:45 -0800 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LDQat-0008Sa-Rg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:39:43 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LDQas-0008Rr-7j for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:39:43 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=53984 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LDQas-0008Rm-3w for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:39:42 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.pppoe.ca ([206.248.154.182]:55740 helo=ironport2-out.teksavvy.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LDQar-0000Z0-S6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:39:41 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtYEAENSSknO+J7J/2dsb2JhbACBbL0yWJBZgwaBPw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.36,245,1228107600"; d="scan'208";a="31242115" Received: from 206-248-158-201.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.158.201]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 18 Dec 2008 16:39:40 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 808DC7F41; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:39:40 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Jason A. Spiro" Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file Message-ID: References: <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:39:40 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Jason A. Spiro's message of "Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:14:25 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. > Please move the cperl micro-docs from the middle of the cperl-mode.el > Elisp file to the top of the file. This will make more people see them. I suggest we add some text in the Commentary that point people to the docstrings below. Moving the docstrings wholesale will increase the merge burden when syncing with Ilya's version. Stefan From rgm@gnu.org Thu Dec 18 18:29:19 2008 Received: (at 1621) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 19 Dec 2008 02:29:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER, VALID_BTS_CONTROL,X_DEBBUGS_NO_ACK autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mBJ2TAPB025901; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:29:11 -0800 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LDV6E-00011n-8P; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:28:22 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org, "Jason A. Spiro" Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file References: <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> X-Spook: LLNL espionage cypherpunk ANDVT lock picking brigand X-Ran: RmlEw_XD^rXmQ@pgdR**16~FM>"U4m{H,2r7%m(aMZ-"&FFbjg1aL:d({`qJSx_KP(2u92 X-Hue: magenta X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:28:22 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:39:40 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii tags 1621 wontfix stop Stefan Monnier wrote: >> Please move the cperl micro-docs from the middle of the cperl-mode.el >> Elisp file to the top of the file. This will make more people see them. > > I suggest we add some text in the Commentary that point people to the > docstrings below. There already is such text, indicated with capital letters and "<<<<<" signs, no less. From jasonspiro@gmail.com Fri Dec 19 01:14:54 2008 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 19 Dec 2008 09:14:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mBJ66nQG029170 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:06:50 -0800 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LDYVc-0008Lm-QO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:06:48 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LDYVb-0008LP-Qp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:06:48 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45799 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LDYVb-0008LM-MN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:06:47 -0500 Received: from yw-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.46.153]:51634) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LDYVb-0005cG-8H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:06:47 -0500 Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so313756ywk.66 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:06:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=yLFIDJDCbIOgoWCjEsW9GD4MpJnnY+RYNZBvG4As+W8=; b=JddV9E0OCvJK5mB5/OIasL6TGWA+HEsKpAtWvSOfm7IR6v75fXiV3yVPM9HNKpR/uc kiXZBOVQaYG6TsyPBDmA5XmMBked8e+vsibL6245LKUt1KEa0z2eKAfCArZN1DlVwF4D d4h79QFq2X9lJCG3afMF9q57YuYRV+P5jEICA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=gRpQrc8bYNQbDPqy83POifO23eWfwIiux9judbbQP3lSDhageG+C/rMT4zMEv/IBf4 ciwBExivNiKl3h51QR0Ur8PGOaBIwxxkKLyM32eFm7JHUTARpujmEInc47RE1jmYcuI1 +q960L2kFFoI9JYz6ADa1ZYmY9dIz3fihofL8= Received: by 10.90.90.4 with SMTP id n4mr1602323agb.103.1229666804367; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.120.1 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:06:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:06:44 -0500 From: "Jason A. Spiro" Sender: jasonspiro@gmail.com To: cpan@ilyaz.org Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, "Stefan Monnier" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4d6c523e42d9f02c X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) 2008/12/18 Stefan Monnier wrote: >> Please move the cperl micro-docs from the middle of the cperl-mode.el >> Elisp file to the top of the file. This will make more people see them. > > I suggest we add some text in the Commentary that point people to the > docstrings below. Moving the docstrings wholesale will increase the > merge burden when syncing with Ilya's version. Ilya, could you too please move the micro-docs from the middle of the your cperl-mode.el Elisp file to the top of the file? This will make more people see the micro-docs. And then I hope the GNU Emacs maintainers will adopt your change downstream. Please Reply to All. By the way, I sent mail to this address @ilyaz.org because I could not find any non-Perl-related address to write to. -- Jason Spiro: software/web developer, packager, trainer, IT consultant. I support Linux, UNIX, Windows, and more. Contact me to discuss your needs. +1 (416) 992-3445 / www.jspiro.com From ilya@Math.Berkeley.EDU Sat Dec 20 14:53:31 2008 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Dec 2008 22:53:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=unavailable version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mBKMrSVt001790 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:53:29 -0800 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LEAhM-0005Od-CN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:53:28 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LEAhH-0005Ko-Ad for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:53:27 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42248 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LEAhH-0005Kl-41 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:53:23 -0500 Received: from mail.math.berkeley.edu ([169.229.58.57]:60071) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LEAhG-0005Jc-BZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:53:22 -0500 Received: from powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (IDENT:5930@powdermilk.Math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.140.13]) by mail.math.berkeley.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id mBKMrBqg042774; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:53:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ilya@mail.math.berkeley.edu) Received: (from ilya@localhost) by powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id mBKMrA5f017266; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:53:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:53:09 -0800 From: Ilya Zakharevich To: "Jason A. Spiro" Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file Message-ID: <20081220225309.GA17257@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> References: <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r561 (SunOS) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 169.229.58.57 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:06:44AM -0500, Jason A. Spiro wrote: > Ilya, could you too please move the micro-docs from the middle of the > your cperl-mode.el Elisp file to the top of the file? This will make > more people see the micro-docs. Could you please explain to me the mental model of people who would read the code of CPerl, but not the mode help, and would not explore the mode menu? Thanks, Ilya From jasonspiro@gmail.com Sat Dec 20 15:41:43 2008 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Dec 2008 23:41:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mBKNfeba014706 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:41:41 -0800 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LEBRz-0001Pm-H4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:41:39 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LEBRy-0001Ox-8m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:41:38 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43402 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LEBRx-0001Op-IG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:41:37 -0500 Received: from yx-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.44.154]:49151) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LEBRx-0000ST-6Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:41:37 -0500 Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 34so565199yxf.66 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:41:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=dpdBgCoEslxUs4oa/ZNXaVdOYTMLKv8yu7OqJy8u6pQ=; b=NjOmNXPDtJErQZWLet88ATxiyHSGsNnf+8Kpk6hPBmh63fYc4JX1ekk0PWi0m6zBjY tFBi0RCrO2iqeUqWggzTXPsodjKbzb00w4TtJmNs0Gy8tp6o5jdbR6/vlYcBIqzNq6sw 7hOce7/5yVQtu+vbir/vChGAyMzvyoUiD1znY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=SY0XS+etdxpfdlW/19Ug9vq58318B7//ELi+5fR4IyAr//dLnG6D78CzfLpED5nwNa M3WaOy0uiiT2siner4Cyq8XXXaPH10DxA4T4OSZMLkk1yW88rALyQQBTsm4Vwy1SPUn6 frsfTJkvdnjjRvIXl6gc0g3R0j13jO4f98hMg= Received: by 10.90.70.15 with SMTP id s15mr2563091aga.82.1229816496233; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:41:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.120.1 with HTTP; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:41:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:41:36 -0500 From: "Jason A. Spiro" Sender: jasonspiro@gmail.com To: "Ilya Zakharevich" Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, "Stefan Monnier" In-Reply-To: <20081220225309.GA17257@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> <20081220225309.GA17257@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 47b6611e37e8c2a9 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 2008/12/20 Ilya Zakharevich : > Could you please explain to me the mental model of people who would > read the code of CPerl, but not the mode help, and would not explore > the mode menu? I don't know why that mental model has happened. But I know it happened to me. I don't expect help to be located halfway through a Lisp file. I expect it to be either in Info format or as docstrings or near the top of the file. :) Remember, the change I am suggesting is an easy one to make. From jasonspiro@gmail.com Sat Dec 20 16:13:56 2008 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Dec 2008 00:13:56 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mBL0DrGj022844 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:13:54 -0800 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LEBxB-0004nG-7P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:13:53 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LEBx9-0004m4-Pi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:13:52 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45714 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LEBx9-0004m1-KJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:13:51 -0500 Received: from mail-gx0-f16.google.com ([209.85.217.16]:61303) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LEBx9-0002OS-Cx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:13:51 -0500 Received: by gxk9 with SMTP id 9so765904gxk.18 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:13:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=JX+t38R2eWG1Uff5WDySOIn920c5qE1E14vGimUjgUI=; b=m9TCKwvcKRELmP4YPikhkZERCRCQIc9EEpsWkCpr2GZF/fRVuHw57XxQs/sWaHe9Y6 UUHsTGMhC14Ccxjr1uTO2RpB7WF5SPgv21GloW3jI9UCdx75E61xhI2rw19FnF4L1qOJ U1TkYpNz6XXNRrWTlngP+romIKbRUENun6Sj8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=N+ZwtGVJFf6kTeXYE8LPddARTKMGPvad5M2dIvU+SVSnkD3C+onVlqjSFveKOR8xE0 +kJLmVpLqfu7zFb5iu3fnjSpy1mK5r9/lsNj/FNd7i32rV/6+grsC/HprTzG3UzwPJrE zg2UlGJyMM6va/bYMJRrJjQA/2f73ptFuWC0E= Received: by 10.90.91.9 with SMTP id o9mr2569209agb.94.1229818430655; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:13:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.120.1 with HTTP; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:13:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:13:50 -0500 From: "Jason A. Spiro" Sender: jasonspiro@gmail.com To: "Ilya Zakharevich" Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, "Stefan Monnier" In-Reply-To: <20081221000241.GA17638@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> <20081220225309.GA17257@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <20081221000241.GA17638@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 93a8b55b09f40414 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) 2008/12/20 Ilya Zakharevich wrote: > > Let me STILL try to get some clarification. Did you not read the mode > help, and/or investigated the mode menu, or you did but not noticed > references to micro-docs? IIRC I did not read the mode help or look at the mode menu. I simply looked for a Commentary section. I hadn't used the mode much yet: it definitely had been less than an hour. But in general, I almost never read mode help, and I seldom look at mode menus. I do sometimes read mode Info documentation, or Lisp file Commentary sections. P.S. I added the original CC list back. If you did not want me to do this, please let me know. From era@iki.fi Fri Feb 20 10:39:41 2009 Received: (at 1621) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Feb 2009 18:39:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1KIdbVV008723 for <1621@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:39:39 -0800 Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.internal [10.202.2.42]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B06C29D59C; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:39:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from web6.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.215]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:39:37 -0500 Received: by web6.messagingengine.com (Postfix, from userid 99) id 2135AE7163; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:39:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1235155177.28052.1301523467@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: o24zSW+HcvcRAcjCFs+cb2Nu/PpeWCh6kyK1g6/Nm/ix 1235155177 From: "era eriksson" To: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: "Ilya Zakharevich" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_----------=_1235155177280520"; charset="ISO-8859-15" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:39:37 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_----------=_1235155177280520 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:39:37 UT How about a slight refactoring to make it more obvious where to look for the startup information? Please find attached a proposed patch. This is just a quick proof of concept; perhaps there is more startup-related information which could be moved to the new variable. (Cc:ing Ilya as I don't know whether he subscribes to this bug report.) /* era */ -- If this were a real .signature, it would suck less. Well, maybe not. --_----------=_1235155177280520 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="cperl-mode-el.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name="cperl-mode-el.patch" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:39:37 UT LS0tIGVtYWNzLXNuYXBzaG90LTIwMDkwMjA3L2xpc3AvcHJvZ21vZGVzL2Nw ZXJsLW1vZGUuZWx+CTIwMDktMDItMjAgMDk6NDQ6NTQuMDAwMDAwMDAwICsw MjAwCisrKyBlbWFjcy1zbmFwc2hvdC0yMDA5MDIwNy9saXNwL3Byb2dtb2Rl cy9jcGVybC1tb2RlLmVsCTIwMDktMDItMjAgMDk6NDM6MDkuMDAwMDAwMDAw ICswMjAwCkBAIC0yOCw2ICsyOCw5IEBACiAKIDs7OyBDb21tZW50YXJ5Ogog Cis7OyBUbyB1c2UgdGhpcyBtb2RlIGluc3RlYWQgb2YgcGVybC1tb2RlIGZv ciBQZXJsIGZpbGVzLCBzZWUgdGhlCis7OyBkb2N1bWVudGF0aW9uIGZvciB0 aGUgdmFyaWFibGUgYGNwZXJsLXNldHVwJworCiA7OyBZb3UgY2FuIGVpdGhl ciBmaW5lLXR1bmUgdGhlIGJlbGxzIGFuZCB3aGlzdGxlcyBvZiB0aGlzIG1v ZGUgb3IKIDs7IGJ1bGsgZW5hYmxlIHRoZW0gYnkgcHV0dGluZwogCkBAIC0z Nyw4ICs0MCw4IEBACiA7OyBjb3JyZWN0IHRvIG1ha2Ugd2hpc3RsZXMgZW5h YmxlZCBieSBkZWZhdWx0LikKIAogOzsgRE8gTk9UIEZPUkdFVCB0byByZWFk IG1pY3JvLWRvY3MgKGF2YWlsYWJsZSBmcm9tIGBQZXJsJyBtZW51KSAgIDw8 PDw8PAotOzsgb3IgYXMgaGVscCBvbiB2YXJpYWJsZXMgYGNwZXJsLXRpcHMn LCBgY3BlcmwtcHJvYmxlbXMnLCAgICAgICAgIDw8PDw8PAotOzsgYGNwZXJs LXByYWlzZScsIGBjcGVybC1zcGVlZCcuCQkJCSAgIDw8PDw8PAorOzsgb3Ig YXMgaGVscCBvbiB2YXJpYWJsZXMgYGNwZXJsLXNldHVwJywgYGNwZXJsLXRp cHMnLAkJICAgPDw8PDw8Cis7OyBgY3BlcmwtcHJvYmxlbXMnLGBjcGVybC1w cmFpc2UnLCBgY3Blcmwtc3BlZWQnLgkJICAgPDw8PDw8CiAKIDs7IFRoZSBt b2RlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIChvbiBDLWggbSkgcHJvdmlkZXMgc29tZSBjdXN0 b21pemF0aW9uIGhlbHAuCiA7OyBJZiB5b3UgdXNlIGZvbnQtbG9jayBmZWF0 dXJlIG9mIHRoaXMgbW9kZSwgaXQgaXMgYWR2aXNhYmxlIHRvIHVzZQpAQCAt NzAwLDYgKzcwMywxMiBAQAogCiA7OzsgU2hvcnQgZXh0cmEtZG9jcy4KIAor KGRlZnZhciBjcGVybC1zZXR1cCAncGxlYXNlLWlnbm9yZS10aGlzLWxpbmUK KyAgIklmIHlvdXIgRW1hY3MgZG9lcyBub3QgZGVmYXVsdCB0byBgY3Blcmwt bW9kZScgb24gUGVybCBmaWxlcywgYW5kIHlvdQord2FudCBpdCB0bzogcHV0 IHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgaW50byB5b3VyIC5lbWFjcyBmaWxlOgorCisgIChk ZWZhbGlhcyAncGVybC1tb2RlICdjcGVybC1tb2RlKSIKKwogKGRlZnZhciBj cGVybC10aXBzICdwbGVhc2UtaWdub3JlLXRoaXMtbGluZQogICAiR2V0IG1h eWJlIG5ld2VyIHZlcnNpb24gb2YgdGhpcyBwYWNrYWdlIGZyb20KICAgaHR0 cDovL2lseWF6Lm9yZy9zb2Z0d2FyZS9lbWFjcwpAQCAtNzIxLDExICs3MzAs NiBAQAogTm90ZSB0aGF0IHRvIGVuYWJsZSBDb21waWxlIGNob2ljZXMgaW4g dGhlIG1lbnUgeW91IG5lZWQgdG8gaW5zdGFsbAogbW9kZS1jb21waWxlLmVs LgogCi1JZiB5b3VyIEVtYWNzIGRvZXMgbm90IGRlZmF1bHQgdG8gYGNwZXJs LW1vZGUnIG9uIFBlcmwgZmlsZXMsIGFuZCB5b3UKLXdhbnQgaXQgdG86IHB1 dCB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGludG8geW91ciAuZW1hY3MgZmlsZToKLQotICAo ZGVmYWxpYXMgJ3BlcmwtbW9kZSAnY3BlcmwtbW9kZSkKLQogR2V0IHBlcmw1 LWluZm8gZnJvbQogICAkQ1BBTi9kb2MvbWFudWFsL2luZm8vcGVybDUtb2xk L3Blcmw1LWluZm8udGFyLmd6CiBBbHNvLCBvbmUgY2FuIGdlbmVyYXRlIGEg bmV3ZXIgZG9jdW1lbnRhdGlvbiBydW5uaW5nIGBwb2QydGV4aScgY29udmVy dGVyCkBAIC0xMzY5LDYgKzEzNzMsNyBAQAogCSAgWyJNZW1vcml6ZSBDdXJy ZW50IiAoY3Blcmwtc2V0LXN0eWxlICJDdXJyZW50IikgdF0KIAkgIFsiTWVt b3JpemVkIiAoY3Blcmwtc2V0LXN0eWxlLWJhY2spIGNwZXJsLW9sZC1zdHls ZV0pCiAJICgiTWljcm8tZG9jcyIKKwkgIFsiU2V0dXAiIChkZXNjcmliZS12 YXJpYWJsZSAnY3Blcmwtc2V0dXApIHRdCiAJICBbIlRpcHMiIChkZXNjcmli ZS12YXJpYWJsZSAnY3BlcmwtdGlwcykgdF0KIAkgIFsiUHJvYmxlbXMiIChk ZXNjcmliZS12YXJpYWJsZSAnY3BlcmwtcHJvYmxlbXMpIHRdCiAJICBbIlNw ZWVkIiAoZGVzY3JpYmUtdmFyaWFibGUgJ2NwZXJsLXNwZWVkKSB0XQpAQCAt MTY4OCw3ICsxNjkzLDcgQEAKIHdpdGggbm8gYXJncy4KIAogRE8gTk9UIEZP UkdFVCB0byByZWFkIG1pY3JvLWRvY3MgKGF2YWlsYWJsZSBmcm9tIGBQZXJs JyBtZW51KQotb3IgYXMgaGVscCBvbiB2YXJpYWJsZXMgYGNwZXJsLXRpcHMn LCBgY3BlcmwtcHJvYmxlbXMnLAorb3IgYXMgaGVscCBvbiB2YXJpYWJsZXMg YGNwZXJsLXNldHVwJywgYGNwZXJsLXRpcHMnLCBgY3BlcmwtcHJvYmxlbXMn LAogYGNwZXJsLXByYWlzZScsIGBjcGVybC1zcGVlZCcuIgogICAoaW50ZXJh Y3RpdmUpCiAgIChraWxsLWFsbC1sb2NhbC12YXJpYWJsZXMpCg== --_----------=_1235155177280520-- From ilya@Math.Berkeley.EDU Fri Feb 20 16:15:38 2009 Received: (at 1621) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Feb 2009 00:15:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail.math.berkeley.edu (mail.math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.58.57]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1L0FaWI031698 for <1621@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:15:37 -0800 Received: from powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (IDENT:5930@powdermilk.Math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.140.13]) by mail.math.berkeley.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n1L0FZZx000937; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:15:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ilya@mail.math.berkeley.edu) Received: (from ilya@localhost) by powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id n1L0FYPZ005347; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:15:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:15:34 -0800 From: Ilya Zakharevich To: era eriksson Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file Message-ID: <20090221001534.GA5340@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> References: <1235155177.28052.1301523467@webmail.messagingengine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1235155177.28052.1301523467@webmail.messagingengine.com> User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r561 (SunOS) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 169.229.58.57 On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 08:39:37PM +0200, era eriksson wrote: > How about a slight refactoring to make it more obvious where to look for > the startup information? > > Please find attached a proposed patch. This is just a quick proof of > concept; perhaps there is more startup-related information which could > be moved to the new variable. Again, I see no point in moving this information from the mode help. Why would one think it is an improvement? Yours, Ilya From era@iki.fi Sat Feb 21 02:54:46 2009 Received: (at 1621) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Feb 2009 10:54:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1LAsgDb029910 for <1621@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 02:54:44 -0800 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B86A2A22C1; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 05:54:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from web6.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.215]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 21 Feb 2009 05:54:42 -0500 Received: by web6.messagingengine.com (Postfix, from userid 99) id F014A558DD; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 05:54:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1235213681.789.1301613957@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: r/Ll+T7xZL9CKEM2TYkWjBKBLuA+WFcLz1P+m/yuE9/M 1235213681 From: "era eriksson" To: "Ilya Zakharevich" Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface References: <1235155177.28052.1301523467@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221001534.GA5340@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file In-Reply-To: <20090221001534.GA5340@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:54:41 +0200 On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:15:34 -0800, "Ilya Zakharevich" said: > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 08:39:37PM +0200, era eriksson wrote: > > How about a slight refactoring to make it more obvious where to > > look for the startup information? > > > > Please find attached a proposed patch. This is just a quick proof > > of concept; perhaps there is more startup-related information which > > could be moved to the new variable. > > Again, I see no point in moving this information from the mode help. > Why would one think it is an improvement? This information is currently not in the mode help proper at all. I thought that this was by design. I agree that moving it to the `cperl-mode' documentation string from the `cperl-tips' documentation would already be an improvement. The name of `cperl-tips' I think suggests that it explains how to use some slightly esoteric features, and by and large this holds true. I have been looking for the startup information on numerous occasions, and more often than not ignored `cperl-tips' based on my interpretation of what the name means. Breaking out the setup / invocation information into its own clearly labelled micro-doc would have the benefit of making it easy to refer to it directly from e.g. the Commentary (as requested by the original reporter) and other places (Info, Customize, etc) and separating it into one coherent, rather short topic for those who are only looking for this specific information. The `cperl-tips' "micro-doc" has a rather oblique label and covers a lot of different topics, making it rather long, in spite of the "micro". Especially for a feature which is likely to be the first and possibly only time a new user tries to get to know cperl-mode, usability is of critical importance. If it's not blindingly obvious how to enable cperl-mode by default, many potential users will simply give up on it. /* era */ -- If this were a real .signature, it would suck less. Well, maybe not. From ilya@Math.Berkeley.EDU Sat Feb 21 14:53:53 2009 Received: (at 1621) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Feb 2009 22:53:53 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail.math.berkeley.edu (mail.math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.58.57]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1LMrpw1019072 for <1621@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:53:52 -0800 Received: from powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (IDENT:5930@powdermilk.Math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.140.13]) by mail.math.berkeley.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n1LMroXK079288; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:53:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ilya@mail.math.berkeley.edu) Received: (from ilya@localhost) by powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id n1LMroOu010934; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:53:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:53:49 -0800 From: Ilya Zakharevich To: era eriksson Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file Message-ID: <20090221225349.GA10921@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> References: <1235155177.28052.1301523467@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221001534.GA5340@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1235213681.789.1301613957@webmail.messagingengine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1235213681.789.1301613957@webmail.messagingengine.com> User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r561 (SunOS) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 169.229.58.57 On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:54:41PM +0200, era eriksson wrote: > > > Please find attached a proposed patch. This is just a quick proof > > > of concept; perhaps there is more startup-related information which > > > could be moved to the new variable. > > > > Again, I see no point in moving this information from the mode help. > > Why would one think it is an improvement? > > This information is currently not in the mode help proper at all. I > thought that this was by design. I agree that moving it to the > `cperl-mode' documentation string from the `cperl-tips' documentation > would already be an improvement. Oups, did not realize this; sorry! I agree; >> TODO. Thanks, Ilya P.S. > Breaking out the setup / invocation information into its own clearly > labelled micro-doc would have the benefit of making it easy to refer to > it directly from e.g. the Commentary (as requested by the original > reporter) and other places (Info, Customize, etc) and separating it into > one coherent, rather short topic for those who are only looking for this > specific information. The `cperl-tips' "micro-doc" has a rather oblique > label and covers a lot of different topics, making it rather long, in > spite of the "micro". I expect that most people would explore Micro-docs from the mode menu. So putting this info there would be chicken-and-egg problem: to access the info on enabling the mode, they would need to enable the mode. If this info is clearly visible in the mode help, do you think it still makes sense to duplicate it in the micro-docs? Like What is this mode you are using? I did not see it before... How to enable it? Oh, it has a mode menu... ;-) From era@iki.fi Sun Mar 15 19:11:02 2009 Received: (at 1621) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 16 Mar 2009 02:11:02 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MDO_DATING13,MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n2G2AwfD012631 for <1621@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:11:00 -0700 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A546F2EE55C; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web6.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.215]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:10:57 -0400 Received: by web6.messagingengine.com (Postfix, from userid 99) id 85B4E37BD1; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1237169457.11425.1305561241@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: c6IKq28C1lTXP0DEM9zKyRgRkvae749+TC6rDd2M9Vmb 1237169457 From: "era eriksson" To: "Ilya Zakharevich" Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface References: <1235155177.28052.1301523467@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221001534.GA5340@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1235213681.789.1301613957@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221225349.GA10921@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file In-Reply-To: <20090221225349.GA10921@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 04:10:57 +0200 On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:53:49 -0800, "Ilya Zakharevich" said: > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:54:41PM +0200, era eriksson wrote: > > > > Please find attached a proposed patch. This is just a quick > > > > proof of concept; perhaps there is more startup-related > > > > information which could be moved to the new variable. > > > > > > Again, I see no point in moving this information from the mode > > > help. Why would one think it is an improvement? > > > > This information is currently not in the mode help proper at all. I > > thought that this was by design. I agree that moving it to the > > `cperl-mode' documentation string from the `cperl-tips' > > documentation would already be an improvement. <...> > P.S. > > > Breaking out the setup / invocation information into its own clearly > > labelled micro-doc would have the benefit of making it easy to > > refer to it directly from e.g. the Commentary (as requested by the > > original reporter) and other places (Info, Customize, etc) and > > separating it into one coherent, rather short topic for those who > > are only looking for this specific information. The `cperl-tips' > > "micro-doc" has a rather oblique label and covers a lot of > > different topics, making it rather long, in spite of the "micro". > > I expect that most people would explore Micro-docs from the mode menu. > So putting this info there would be chicken-and-egg problem: to access > the info on enabling the mode, they would need to enable the mode. > > If this info is clearly visible in the mode help, do you think it > still makes sense to duplicate it in the micro-docs? Like > > What is this mode you are using? I did not see it before... How to > enable it? Oh, it has a mode menu... > > ;-) Sorry for this late reply; missed your PS originally. I do think it makes sense to keep it in the micro-docs. If nothing else, it's easy to refer newcomers to it, and even if you did manage to somehow set it up on your own, you might want to review the "official" way to do it, perhaps while idly browsing the micro-docs looking for neat stuff you didn't originally understand how to set up. Another thing I've been meaning to propose would be for cperl-mode to offer to install itself into your .emacs when you invoke it for the first time, sort of like how (put 'dangerous-command 'disabled nil) occasionally gets added to your .emacs after asking for permission. (IIRC narrow-to-region is one of these "dangerous" commands, and some of the horizontal scrolling commands which I never use except by mistake.) Do you think it would be appropriate to remove the +wontfix tag from this bug? (Not sure whether or not this bug applies to upstream Emacs or your code at this point, and how the two are being coordinated, if at all.) /* era */ -- If this were a real .signature, it would suck less. Well, maybe not. From ilya@Math.Berkeley.EDU Sun Mar 15 21:03:18 2009 Received: (at 1621) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 16 Mar 2009 04:03:18 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail.math.berkeley.edu (mail.math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.58.57]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n2G43FiW008764 for <1621@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:03:16 -0700 Received: from powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (IDENT:5930@powdermilk.Math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.140.13]) by mail.math.berkeley.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n2G43FRm076862; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:03:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ilya@mail.math.berkeley.edu) Received: (from ilya@localhost) by powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id n2G43EMj009695; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:03:14 -0700 From: Ilya Zakharevich To: era eriksson Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file Message-ID: <20090316040314.GA9645@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> References: <1235155177.28052.1301523467@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221001534.GA5340@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1235213681.789.1301613957@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221225349.GA10921@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1237169457.11425.1305561241@webmail.messagingengine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1237169457.11425.1305561241@webmail.messagingengine.com> User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r561 (SunOS) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 169.229.58.57 On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 04:10:57AM +0200, era eriksson wrote: > I do think it makes sense to keep it in the micro-docs. If nothing > else, it's easy to refer newcomers to it, and even if you did manage to > somehow set it up on your own, you might want to review the "official" > way to do it, perhaps while idly browsing the micro-docs looking for > neat stuff you didn't originally understand how to set up. > > Another thing I've been meaning to propose would be for cperl-mode to > offer to install itself into your .emacs when you invoke it for the > first time, sort of like how (put 'dangerous-command 'disabled nil) > occasionally gets added to your .emacs after asking for permission. > (IIRC narrow-to-region is one of these "dangerous" commands, and some of > the horizontal scrolling commands which I never use except by mistake.) Myself, I would hate it if it were like this: supposed I'm annoyed by this "feature" - should it also ask whether to put a command into .emacs which would disable this question? ;-) > Do you think it would be appropriate to remove the +wontfix tag from > this bug? I do not know what "the +wontfix" means. The situation is as in "I considered your suggestions, I appreciated your suggestions, and I even mentioned possibly reconsidering your suggestions in my TODO files". ;-) Yours, Ilya From era@iki.fi Mon Mar 16 01:48:44 2009 Received: (at 1621) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 16 Mar 2009 08:48:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,FVGT_m_MULTI_ODD, HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n2G8mecN018490 for <1621@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 01:48:41 -0700 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ADB52F0434; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 04:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web6.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.215]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 16 Mar 2009 04:48:40 -0400 Received: by web6.messagingengine.com (Postfix, from userid 99) id 3CB85E6005; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 04:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1237193320.11378.1305597387@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: dgAak38LT5+VXjM39EO10RSluHUgoD1XfLIaU1QvQ7G7 1237193320 From: "era eriksson" To: "Ilya Zakharevich" Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface References: <1235155177.28052.1301523467@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221001534.GA5340@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1235213681.789.1301613957@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221225349.GA10921@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1237169457.11425.1305561241@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090316040314.GA9645@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file In-Reply-To: <20090316040314.GA9645@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:48:40 +0200 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:03:14 -0700, "Ilya Zakharevich" said: > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 04:10:57AM +0200, era eriksson wrote: > > Another thing I've been meaning to propose would be for cperl-mode > > to offer to install itself into your .emacs when you invoke it for > > the first time, sort of like how (put 'dangerous-command 'disabled > > nil) occasionally gets added to your .emacs after asking for > > permission. (IIRC narrow-to-region is one of these "dangerous" > > commands, and some of the horizontal scrolling commands which I > > never use except by mistake.) > > Myself, I would hate it if it were like this: supposed I'm annoyed by > this "feature" - should it also ask whether to put a command into > .emacs which would disable this question? ;-) The 'disabled logic is fairly unobtrusive IMHO. My suggestion would be to (defvar 'cperl-mode-install-setup-flag 'ask) and then either add (setq 'cperl-mode-install-setup-flag nil) or 't to the user's .emacs if the user doesn't specifically select "continue to ask me" instead of "yes" or "no". The main logic would simply inspect the value during load and do or do not (there is no try :-) depending on what it says. To my uneducated $self this sounds like it would need to go in a separate .el file which would have some sort of ;;;###autoload but maybe there is a more elegant way. > > Do you think it would be appropriate to remove the +wontfix tag from > > this bug? > > I do not know what "the +wontfix" means. The situation is as in "I > considered your suggestions, I appreciated your suggestions, and I > even mentioned possibly reconsidering your suggestions in my TODO > files". ;-) I'm talking about the bug's status in the Emacs Bug Tracking System at http://debbugs.gnu.org/1621 -- if Emacs maintainers don't object, I'll change it to "forwarded " and take away the wontfix tag. I hope it's not too far of a stretch to interpret your answer to mean that you don't really care about the Emacs BTS status of this bug report. (The bug tracking system is an installation of the Debian BTS which by design doesn't ever obfuscate email addresses. I really hate this "feature" because it's a regular fly paper for spam. Maybe you would prefer if I put something else than your email address in the "forwarded" field, although I guess by and large the damage is already done.) /* era */ -- If this were a real .signature, it would suck less. Well, maybe not. From ilya@Math.Berkeley.EDU Mon Mar 16 02:12:09 2009 Received: (at 1621) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 16 Mar 2009 09:12:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail.math.berkeley.edu (mail.math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.58.57]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n2G9C746025421 for <1621@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:12:08 -0700 Received: from powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (IDENT:5930@powdermilk.Math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.140.13]) by mail.math.berkeley.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n2G9C6YJ092104; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:12:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ilya@mail.math.berkeley.edu) Received: (from ilya@localhost) by powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id n2G9C6gd010443; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:12:05 -0700 From: Ilya Zakharevich To: era eriksson Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file Message-ID: <20090316091205.GA10436@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> References: <1235155177.28052.1301523467@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221001534.GA5340@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1235213681.789.1301613957@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221225349.GA10921@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1237169457.11425.1305561241@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090316040314.GA9645@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1237193320.11378.1305597387@webmail.messagingengine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1237193320.11378.1305597387@webmail.messagingengine.com> User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r561 (SunOS) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 169.229.58.57 On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:48:40AM +0200, era eriksson wrote: > I'm talking about the bug's status in the Emacs Bug Tracking System at > http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/1621 -- if Emacs maintainers don't > object, I'll change it to "forwarded " and take > away the wontfix tag. I hope it's not too far of a stretch to interpret > your answer to mean that you don't really care about the Emacs BTS > status of this bug report. > > (The bug tracking system is an installation of the Debian BTS which by > design doesn't ever obfuscate email addresses. I really hate this > "feature" because it's a regular fly paper for spam. Maybe you would > prefer if I put something else than your email address in the > "forwarded" field, although I guess by and large the damage is already > done.) Thanks, Era, I would prefer obfuscation, and not of berkeley address, but of ilyaz@cpan.org... Yours, Ilya From era@iki.fi Mon Mar 16 12:48:56 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 16 Mar 2009 19:48:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n2GJmrkv023771 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:48:54 -0700 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B666B2F14B2 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web6.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.215]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:52 -0400 Received: by web6.messagingengine.com (Postfix, from userid 99) id 98DC086B29; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1237232932.19150.1305711319@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: SfM9+L2DviGuvFq9rz1116DkWYQOyzfEipTy6bjmJe3+ 1237232932 From: "era eriksson" To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface Subject: Update status of #1621 Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:48:52 +0200 tags 1621 -wontfix forwarded 1621 eye.el.why.aye.zee@cee.pee.aye.en.dot.org.invalid thanks /* era */ -- If this were a real .signature, it would suck less. Well, maybe not. From era@iki.fi Mon Mar 16 13:00:34 2009 Received: (at 1621) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 16 Mar 2009 20:00:34 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n2GK0VkD027418 for <1621@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:00:32 -0700 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2FE2F1B5F; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web6.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.215]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:00:31 -0400 Received: by web6.messagingengine.com (Postfix, from userid 99) id 3488F86C6F; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1237233631.22160.1305713369@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: c9odxThFktjKqJqxnwfGVDeprsmwMRD5qEZe2itNgMVv 1237233631 From: "era eriksson" To: "Ilya Zakharevich" Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface References: <1235155177.28052.1301523467@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221001534.GA5340@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1235213681.789.1301613957@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221225349.GA10921@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1237169457.11425.1305561241@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090316040314.GA9645@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1237193320.11378.1305597387@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090316091205.GA10436@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file In-Reply-To: <20090316091205.GA10436@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:00:31 +0200 On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:12:05 -0700, "Ilya Zakharevich" said: > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:48:40AM +0200, era eriksson wrote: > > I'm talking about the bug's status in the Emacs Bug Tracking System at > > http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/1621 -- if Emacs maintainers don't > > object, I'll change it to "forwarded " and > > take away the wontfix tag. I hope it's not too far of a stretch to > > interpret your answer to mean that you don't really care about the > > Emacs BTS status of this bug report. > > > > (The bug tracking system is an installation of the Debian BTS which by > > design doesn't ever obfuscate email addresses. I really hate this > > "feature" because it's a regular fly paper for spam. Maybe you would > > prefer if I put something else than your email address in the > > "forwarded" field, although I guess by and large the damage is already > > done.) > > Thanks, Era, I would prefer obfuscation, and not of berkeley address, > but of ilyaz@cpan.org... Done now, but you should be aware that the whole conversation is being archived at the URL quoted above, in mbox format and various other renderings. I apologize if this was not sufficiently clear earlier. (It's the Cc: which does it.) /* era */ -- If this were a real .signature, it would suck less. Well, maybe not. From ilya@Math.Berkeley.EDU Mon Mar 16 16:50:35 2009 Received: (at 1621) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 16 Mar 2009 23:50:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail.math.berkeley.edu (mail.math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.58.57]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n2GNoWs8021279 for <1621@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:50:33 -0700 Received: from powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (IDENT:5930@powdermilk.Math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.140.13]) by mail.math.berkeley.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n2GNoVnE081297; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:50:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ilya@mail.math.berkeley.edu) Received: (from ilya@localhost) by powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id n2GNoU3n002074; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:50:30 -0700 From: Ilya Zakharevich To: era eriksson Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file Message-ID: <20090316235030.GA2067@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> References: <1235155177.28052.1301523467@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221001534.GA5340@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1235213681.789.1301613957@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090221225349.GA10921@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1237169457.11425.1305561241@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090316040314.GA9645@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1237193320.11378.1305597387@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20090316091205.GA10436@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu> <1237233631.22160.1305713369@webmail.messagingengine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1237233631.22160.1305713369@webmail.messagingengine.com> User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r561 (SunOS) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 169.229.58.57 On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:00:31PM +0200, era eriksson wrote: > > Thanks, Era, I would prefer obfuscation, and not of berkeley address, > > but of ilyaz@cpan.org... > > Done now, but you should be aware that the whole conversation is being > archived at the URL quoted above, in mbox format and various other > renderings. I apologize if this was not sufficiently clear earlier. > (It's the Cc: which does it.) Oups! And I wondered why spam started to arrive directly to berkeley address... The major problem is that this Cc-address does not follow the conventions for maillist addresses. (My emailing setup tries to recognize mailing lists, and uses a "logical" From-address in such cases. I reconfigured it now; checking.... Yes, it does recognize this Cc address as a mailing list now...) Thanks, Ilya From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 15 11:11:41 2020 Received: (at 1621) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2020 15:11:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56210 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT4ur-0004c4-Bk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:11:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:44230) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT4up-0004bo-LW for 1621@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:11:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Oic9S3LF/fuE4/AZpN9yapm4tLZqYE+XhLBO70jPxw0=; b=LotJABjhrxnPHg1t0m4KkooDxS +JozMhVIqSQhZE6GpasJ+uQceWLidk+1gbzClu52AeRkp6NLDWGNw/ra9N5jKF6896PXWWhQBJZye z5JWxZN1c4yggaQSGlErG3XzolEV+rRDE04VretaFNEWfNznGvgQncj6o9gTO3mfwJMY=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kT4ug-0005dD-QM; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 17:11:33 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Jason A. Spiro" Subject: Re: bug#1621: Please move cperl micro-docs to top of the cperl-mode.el file References: <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> <20070401035915.3121.73126.malonedeb@gangotri.ubuntu.com> X-Now-Playing: Oval's _Popp_: "fu" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 17:11:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Jason A. Spiro's message of "Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:14:25 -0500") Message-ID: <87wnzrv80u.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Jason A. Spiro" writes: > I wanted to set Emacs to use cperl-mode instead of perl-mode, but I > didn't know how. It turns out the answer was in the cperl-tips section > on line 710 of the file. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1621 Cc: 1621@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) "Jason A. Spiro" writes: > I wanted to set Emacs to use cperl-mode instead of perl-mode, but I > didn't know how. It turns out the answer was in the cperl-tips section > on line 710 of the file. I've now added a more explicit reference in the comments in cperl-mode as to where to find the microdocs in Emacs 28. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 15 11:11:48 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2020 15:11:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56213 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT4ux-0004cM-Ky for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:11:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:44244) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT4uv-0004bw-CV for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:11:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=TdcJMOfExDfDLN3jd9kIQhivCOcj+a6T4OYuZybBVaI=; b=rqOsKYK8W2veJD9vbsD8P6uz8P SkG8kpo7YJVEcm6AP3Wx2jYsqVOKXviICNOxkSwq+8d626bItoqK7X/xuXE3keEmGx4JEksetMuSg fr3S9Gh3Srv+bwghq8oqEEzFraehq2f7RLXXBUDwQJSy36cRlyxjq5k6MZk1TSuEnEu8=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kT4un-0005dQ-Lt for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 17:11:39 +0200 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 17:11:36 +0200 Message-Id: <87v9fbv80n.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #1621 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 1621 fixed close 1621 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 1621 fixed close 1621 28.1 quit From unknown Mon Aug 18 15:39:06 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator