From unknown Sat Aug 09 15:52:19 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#16074 <16074@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#16074 <16074@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' Reply-To: bug#16074 <16074@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2025 22:52:19 +0000 retitle 16074 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names= & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' reassign 16074 emacs submitter 16074 Drew Adams severity 16074 wishlist tag 16074 wontfix patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 06 10:46:49 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Dec 2013 15:46:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34258 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Voxc8-0006HG-Tw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:46:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48011) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Voxc6-0006H8-AQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:46:47 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Voxbx-0005cG-Sx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:46:46 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:54233) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Voxbx-0005cB-PQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:46:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49614) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Voxbq-0008Gp-69 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:46:37 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Voxbf-0005Zg-0W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:46:30 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:30846) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Voxbe-0005Za-Oo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:46:18 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id rB6FkH51027868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2013 15:46:17 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rB6FkGEs016366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2013 15:46:17 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rB6FkGpP016362 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2013 15:46:16 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 07:46:16 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) See http://stackoverflow.com/a/20427244/729907. The names and doc of the commands bound to `C-u C-SPC' and `C-x C-SPC' are misleading, in that the commands do not really "pop" the marker rings. They cycle the rings. Markers are not removed from the rings by such "popping". Emacs uses the verb "cycle" for this kind of behavior elsewhere. The same terminology should be used here also. We should rename `pop-global-mark' and rephrase the doc. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2013-12-05 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 115389 monnier@iro.umontreal.ca-20131205202554-1az0dm7bdk303b= gw Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/binary --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' CPPFLAGS=3D-Ic:/Devel/emacs/include LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 29 10:47:53 2016 Received: (at 16074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2016 14:47:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55453 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aw9hx-0004AA-AC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:47:53 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:57023) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aw9hw-0004A3-Dd for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:47:52 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aw9hp-0001xr-SK; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:47:51 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' References: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:47:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 6 Dec 2013 07:46:16 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <87zisc4gku.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: 16074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Drew Adams writes: > See http://stackoverflow.com/a/20427244/729907. > > The names and doc of the commands bound to `C-u C-SPC' and `C-x C-SPC' > are misleading, in that the commands do not really "pop" the marker > rings. They cycle the rings. Markers are not removed from the rings > by such "popping". > > Emacs uses the verb "cycle" for this kind of behavior elsewhere. The > same terminology should be used here also. We should rename > `pop-global-mark' and rephrase the doc. Heh. I didn't even know that they didn't pop, after all these years. Yes, renaming here seems like a good idea. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 24 01:40:58 2019 Received: (at 16074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Aug 2019 05:40:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41490 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1OnJ-0001jB-TA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 01:40:58 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f175.google.com ([209.85.215.175]:40163) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1OnH-0001ix-4e for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 01:40:56 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f175.google.com with SMTP id w10so7026499pgj.7 for <16074@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 23 Aug 2019 22:40:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PfgQ4gkRhnGGM9DmRDJHxMuYRNBmghQmNvddMQKWPcs=; b=PPzuV5NW9fcNGAwT+RZtCxE4p1eAG0UgGbSMQPLdYPLKkFo1ZkiHyNtgSxecZPG9ii hCJEcbfJ0JxFZQq6E1etxLBPuWwR/btax157P2jsAEvHs5GaPEzFpP+uhm7OgS7TXi8Z nxEv9MmZLP8PO7H/fb39vFxADvQ1ZD2vH1GxTlQioYWDYvSyGqs9xT8+mDvJvKGCWx1Z YjdC/Ju57KsqZ6srycg85OEhHG+gLUoHnVNjHzxMp9GdoGCdUdgavpgbbZmB6BXfyhRp aKpV5AL8n8k4rxsBbeAbIDsNYz242wggh9lJBykgPBoa2Kp2Rt1nG8oA34tEnCBBPOeH g2lQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXr1qIz+6flbcs1zqqdf6PL3P8sY2nihvpEk2hjfj7TttJbjRn9 nUfcQLIPxeXIGysDnCx2922bfBQldymI0pb0rCc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxJmTenEfUyNNV6ysZfzXMrfRf8tK+/3qK5yuErDKk4zVIiKUDcYtJGQUXksLnr7+meTYS+ByU2xlGZ5QSuVi8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:17ab:: with SMTP id q40mr9007083pja.106.1566625249136; Fri, 23 Aug 2019 22:40:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 07:40:37 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="00000000000078b9d90590d65d91" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: 16074@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --00000000000078b9d90590d65d91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Drew Adams writes: > >> See http://stackoverflow.com/a/20427244/729907. >> >> The names and doc of the commands bound to `C-u C-SPC' and `C-x C-SPC' >> are misleading, in that the commands do not really "pop" the marker >> rings. They cycle the rings. Markers are not removed from the rings >> by such "popping". >> >> Emacs uses the verb "cycle" for this kind of behavior elsewhere. The >> same terminology should be used here also. We should rename >> `pop-global-mark' and rephrase the doc. > > Heh. I didn't even know that they didn't pop, after all these years. > > Yes, renaming here seems like a good idea. How about the attached patch? 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esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1PXa-0002rz-VS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 02:28:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49776) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1PXY-0002rn-Gj for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 02:28:44 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58636) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1i1PXT-0003n0-8v; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 02:28:39 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2032 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1i1PXR-00007b-Qa; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 02:28:38 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 09:28:50 +0300 Message-Id: <831rxbjcv1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 24 Aug 2019 07:40:37 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 16074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 07:40:37 +0200 > Cc: 16074@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> The names and doc of the commands bound to `C-u C-SPC' and `C-x C-SPC' > >> are misleading, in that the commands do not really "pop" the marker > >> rings. They cycle the rings. Markers are not removed from the rings > >> by such "popping". > >> > >> Emacs uses the verb "cycle" for this kind of behavior elsewhere. The > >> same terminology should be used here also. We should rename > >> `pop-global-mark' and rephrase the doc. > > > > Heh. I didn't even know that they didn't pop, after all these years. > > > > Yes, renaming here seems like a good idea. > > How about the attached patch? IMO, doing this is a waste of time, energy, VC resources and whatnot. Just one opinion. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 24 10:20:27 2019 Received: (at 16074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Aug 2019 14:20:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43180 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1Wu3-0004Rs-CA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 10:20:27 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:49496) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1Wu1-0004Re-2r for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 10:20:26 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7OEF5hS103590; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:20:19 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=eTsQ+1M4pMm5tKVwiHOJ3oKY8jrsHYOYNKtVEp5xKp8=; b=oDlpyCsHY6kHTBpFlXWhLNyNJDgrLjitv+z1MsRtTLpUh6SlzevJZpm1UtfWmamksnPc xLgzxydhzeC2iNmPLRfHOqqwynHCsDIjDGA4IqtlA7VM0RjkEoi8QJGunT5fhJkuE1Qk TtG5z+II+bEng+cwXGy1yyfPlAyBMpuo8cOwRq6uxZDd5XBO3r6Uy6RJHXGhTdJYkYMG /UvOLCUjUBNtXqbFSuRzhOhxnaSS6+vNVO8yYhttvhsPY493jtGyC0S6XXS5ULGD10yl mnobnlUsodTCJSO1OWLFR6u2t0uOhXQM+srSQf8XASWGWzLQyzr0QHHoS7Clr9g7bUhH DA== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ujw7118r8-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:20:18 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7OEJxBu084600; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:20:18 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ujw6g2qnh-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:20:18 +0000 Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x7OEKHi9017212; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:20:17 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 07:20:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9359 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908240160 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9358 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908240159 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: 16074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > >> The names and doc of the commands bound to `C-u C-SPC' and `C-x C- > >> SPC' are misleading, in that the commands do not really "pop" the=20 > >> marker rings. They cycle the rings. Markers are not removed from > >> the rings by such "popping". > >> > >> Emacs uses the verb "cycle" for this kind of behavior elsewhere. > >> The same terminology should be used here also. We should rename > >> `pop-global-mark' and rephrase the doc. > > > > Yes, renaming here seems like a good idea. >=20 > How about the attached patch? Maybe I missed something when perusing the patch, but it looks like it addresses only the global mark ring (`C-x C-SPC'), not also the (local) mark ring (`C-u C-SPC'). The enhancement request is about both. The doc for both speaks of "pop" instead of cycle. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 24 10:22:16 2019 Received: (at 16074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Aug 2019 14:22:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43185 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1Wvn-0004Ut-RA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 10:22:16 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:51096) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1Wvk-0004Ub-P8 for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 10:22:13 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7OEM2Fr137381; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:22:04 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=2IAmcv4bCNgcSJx4g9hp2tH1C3u/DwbI9phQ4KWdC+U=; b=KdZ0EAy3eMqHRR18lmCV0nOpC9NUUUuqa0MzmUd5+E+sXSgBlcT4k7fpVuc8OTQi9tut f89JhMfEfCch8dUsGSol8tkNd0q9MRjPsp6mf83k2c6rCYFpTVM/U7dcWAhRDoCypOBt yqXQ9/80bzhjjjTfWzG+55CRGdY4s4iVclvi6yJfsadynkboRjtJ76+VXMCTzRpSEUCW vK51RrUPenqSlKakpQZtfRNmoEFNq8ebmaOCil/Dv0abZnDR5JbXXhAbpZpx/tFDHwO6 ruw/VDAsMBT2GFi9ZHDUkIBTbtoKVxZ3xfpapGTDQisEoZ0GPhnkiw7xCMXg/q0ThQLb 0w== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ujw6ys942-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:22:04 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7OEK1m9127261; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:22:04 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ujw781pf3-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:22:04 +0000 Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x7OEM2bQ016853; Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:22:03 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 07:22:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas Subject: RE: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' References: <> <> <<831rxbjcv1.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<831rxbjcv1.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9359 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=975 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908240160 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9359 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908240160 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 16074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > IMO, doing this is a waste of time, energy, VC resources and whatnot. It helps users. Whether in this case that help is worth the necessary time, energy, VC resources and your whatnot is up to you. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 25 01:48:23 2019 Received: (at 16074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2019 05:48:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43467 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1lO2-0008Nn-Oy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 01:48:22 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:57852) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1lO0-0008Nf-Hz for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 01:48:21 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i1lNx-0001Xn-9h; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 07:48:19 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' References: Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 07:48:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sat, 24 Aug 2019 07:40:37 +0200") Message-ID: <87y2zh94nz.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: >> Heh. I didn't even know that they didn't pop, after all these years. >> >> Yes, renaming here seems like a good idea. > > How about the attached patch? I think that looks like the correct solution. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: 16074@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: >> Heh. I didn't even know that they didn't pop, after all these years. >> >> Yes, renaming here seems like a good idea. > > How about the attached patch? I think that looks like the correct solution. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 25 12:15:08 2019 Received: (at 16074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2019 16:15:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45001 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1vAZ-00030O-KI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 12:15:07 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:49298) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1vAX-0002zZ-98 for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 12:15:06 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7PGExFS140432; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:14:59 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=Ck9lL0xbxig9g1BTPoZXMxNL99tr0DH7NVcdtnr+TSI=; b=ClcJk2Hf/nGZr3w6gMfG+eRz+wb+g9bqbuhlC8G/DaM7RiPteA7eLILFb0Xu4okgW4l9 MPpf2rhUFeNjXBJ/dUfSG8ia2Mg9C5ffWKdHfxYL1EiwzKugmfHp3uNhFnzjtxSeoaQz wXNvZtaMzIv9LET5p7fMKNiTPNybhIGc/SVg/6FB+Xu40A0KlRDMjYzhrSKoKi27Rsrq tUdQLpW4gQ1jqVcLmWCqkSAZ8FJACnmKk8OHJA1uSeYc6MJ3v5mLs4PncRbCmZs526Ht jCbUQ9wmhGQemDKuzHgoMRR93xkISUuhCIxPstjFmCxPB4F0szXhAzkflaqZKIwO9WRX Hw== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ujw714j9x-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:14:58 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7PGED1k035546; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:14:58 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ujw6gw8st-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:14:58 +0000 Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x7PGEuX1002564; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:14:56 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 09:14:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Kangas Subject: RE: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' References: <87y2zh94nz.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87y2zh94nz.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9360 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908250181 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9360 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908250181 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: 16074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > >> Yes, renaming here seems like a good idea. > > > > How about the attached patch? >=20 > I think that looks like the correct solution. It doesn't address the problem for the `mark-ring', does it? My impression was that it addresses it only for `global-mark-ring'. The local `mark-ring' is used much more often than the `global-mark-ring', and its doc is probably accessed much more often. For example - This part of `C-h k C-SPC' is wrong: With prefix argument (e.g., C-u C-SPC), jump to the mark, and set the mark from position popped off the local mark ^^^^^^^^^^ ring (this does not affect the global mark ring). ... If 'set-mark-command-repeat-pop' is non-nil, repeating the C-SPC command with no prefix argument pops the next position off the local (or global) mark ring and jumps there. With C-u C-u as prefix argument, unconditionally set mark where point is, even if 'set-mark-command-repeat-pop' is non-nil. And the doc & name of option `set-mark-command-repeat-pop' are wrong (plus, the line lengths are screwy): Non-nil means repeating C-SPC after popping mark pops it again. That means that C-u C-SPC C-SPC will pop the mark twice, and C-u C-SPC C-SPC C-SPC will pop the mark three times. And the doc & name of function `pop-to-mark-command' are wrong: Jump to mark, and pop a new position for mark off the ring. A position is NOT popped off the ring. That's what's wrong with all of these. Likewise, the doc in the manuals. The enhancement request is to fix this wrong terminology wrt BOTH `global-mark-ring' and `mark-ring'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 25 16:45:41 2019 Received: (at 16074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2019 20:45:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45151 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1zOP-0002mU-EQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:45:41 -0400 Received: from brown.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.23]:46665) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i1zON-0002mM-TS for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:45:40 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC36C341BE5; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 20:45:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a15.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-4-105.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.4.105]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0E6CC340A50; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 20:45:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a15.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.17.5); Sun, 25 Aug 2019 20:45:38 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Drop-Befitting: 3ae3f228104036ba_1566765938307_4221464089 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1566765938307:3314582875 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1566765938306 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a15.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a15.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D07831F8; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 13:45:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=linkov.net; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=linkov.net; bh=pRKhv0PhNNX5l7roZQmxmyW1P0s=; b= bDeNFRAZ4tPl0hPTaLfJhB/fok1KBNvPPUVs9fKt+HTLr6UKnqg3MJ129vzfWN22 LR+OKAQTiRuNn3en/6d/Xq7atnO2dhyRlGVDNqnQNjBBr1+Lp/AJXXiMfJV2Le0V zLu9ZbOZnJcUaRArPKclUw9HsYbfpG+hD3pKsYoogXA= Received: from mail.jurta.org (m91-129-109-163.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.109.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a15.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 983A4831F6; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 13:45:28 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a15 From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87y2zh94nz.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:09:45 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 25 Aug 2019 09:14:55 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87a7bxm12m.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduvddrudehvddgudehhecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvffuohhfffgjkfgfgggtsehttdertddtredtnecuhfhrohhmpefluhhrihcunfhinhhkohhvuceojhhurhhisehlihhnkhhovhdrnhgvtheqnecukfhppeeluddruddvledruddtledrudeifeenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghlohepmhgrihhlrdhjuhhrthgrrdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepledurdduvdelrddutdelrdduieefpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpefluhhrihcunfhinhhkohhvuceojhhurhhisehlihhnkhhovhdrnhgvtheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhurhhisehlihhnkhhovhdrnhgvthdpnhhrtghpthhtohepughrvgifrdgruggrmhhssehorhgrtghlvgdrtghomhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Kangas , 16074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> >> Yes, renaming here seems like a good idea. >> > >> > How about the attached patch? >> >> I think that looks like the correct solution. > > It doesn't address the problem for the `mark-ring', > does it? My impression was that it addresses it > only for `global-mark-ring'. The local `mark-ring' > is used much more often than the `global-mark-ring', > and its doc is probably accessed much more often. > > For example - > > This part of `C-h k C-SPC' is wrong: > > With prefix argument (e.g., C-u C-SPC), jump to the mark, > and set the mark from position popped off the local mark > ^^^^^^^^^^ > ring (this does not affect the global mark ring). > ... > > If 'set-mark-command-repeat-pop' is non-nil, repeating > the C-SPC command with no prefix argument pops the next > position off the local (or global) mark ring and jumps there. > > With C-u C-u as prefix argument, unconditionally set > mark where point is, even if 'set-mark-command-repeat-pop' > is non-nil. > > And the doc & name of option `set-mark-command-repeat-pop' > are wrong (plus, the line lengths are screwy): > > Non-nil means repeating C-SPC after popping mark > pops it again. > That means that C-u C-SPC C-SPC > will pop the mark twice, and > C-u C-SPC C-SPC C-SPC > will pop the mark three times. > > And the doc & name of function `pop-to-mark-command' > are wrong: > > Jump to mark, and pop a new position for mark off the ring. > > A position is NOT popped off the ring. That's what's > wrong with all of these. Likewise, the doc in the > manuals. > > The enhancement request is to fix this wrong > terminology wrt BOTH `global-mark-ring' and > `mark-ring'. And `yank' doesn't yank, and `kill' doesn't kill literally. What is the most important is that docstrings should describe the behavior in all details. The name is more a matter of taste. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 25 18:04:31 2019 Received: (at 16074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2019 22:04:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45212 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i20ch-0005IQ-FP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 18:04:31 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:43680) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i20cf-0005IB-ET for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 18:04:30 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7PM4Mle186481; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 22:04:23 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=7fiSbshoRXXAyIxkqL0Wm2tGzh7scR3LUv0vdzVAB8E=; b=XDsa9ItNJrmFuo/SgPPorM2CjcHHOQIqUAvhMXmYYfzRWPBQemIQA6WKXCSVq2Csr6tn BU/OyZbnF8cXtmZGe4aHXyZHXakR4nnkzpWQwqv2T1MCFPQAcTLsHszukoSfWANLmZYj PWlywb/eEVNjHyxpi7N7tPN5yqpos0VVvtSlMkh9KhVpYdp7MPZd0h8sBUOLu3RKS3lP Qes7RVOLCk5pa7G+6rIGmQrflbU4gQwA8FShkk+BXkEz3jpnxoFG2qNJj3o+s9Yc/Xju rXXg293c6nMN2del2gxU3CgtRD2bzYUu+HnRx7VKziKmTMvhtFX2o1vsSRiRBRA0Fpqm tQ== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ujwvq54g8-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Aug 2019 22:04:22 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7PM4Hkf096381; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 22:04:21 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ujw78vcpw-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Aug 2019 22:04:20 +0000 Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x7PM37co021019; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 22:03:08 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 15:03:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Juri Linkov Subject: RE: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' References: <87y2zh94nz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a7bxm12m.fsf@mail.linkov.net> In-Reply-To: <87a7bxm12m.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9360 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908250247 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9360 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908250247 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Kangas , 16074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > The enhancement request is to fix this wrong > > terminology wrt BOTH `global-mark-ring' and > > `mark-ring'. >=20 > And `yank' doesn't yank, and `kill' doesn't kill literally. > What is the most important is that docstrings should describe > the behavior in all details. The name is more a matter of taste. Irrelevant. Emacs _has_ "pop" in its terminology, just like it has "yank" and "kill" (buffer, text). This mistaken use of "pop" doesn't fit Emacs's use of the word (or even typical outside uses of it). And Emacs _has_ a term, "cycle", for the behavior here. "Cycle" is the term Emacs uses for rings. And it's not just about the name. It's also about the doc, which incorrectly tells users that the behavior is to "pop" the mark/position "off" the ring. That's wrong; it's not what happens. That doesn't "describe the behavior in all details". Instead, it describes a different behavior, which doesn't happen. Hand-waving alone can't justify this misleading. On the other hand, as I replied to Eli, you can decide whether fixing this is "worth the necessary time, energy, VC resources and your whatnot." That's up to you. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 26 02:26:16 2019 Received: (at 16074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2019 06:26:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45478 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i28SG-00015M-4M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 02:26:16 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50829) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i28SD-000158-Tb for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 02:26:14 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34661) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1i28S6-0004m8-8u; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 02:26:06 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2845 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1i28S2-0000hS-8E; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 02:26:06 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 09:26:03 +0300 Message-Id: <837e70h284.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-reply-to: <87a7bxm12m.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:09:45 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' References: <87y2zh94nz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a7bxm12m.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 16074@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:09:45 +0300 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Kangas , > 16074@debbugs.gnu.org > > > A position is NOT popped off the ring. That's what's > > wrong with all of these. Likewise, the doc in the > > manuals. > > > > The enhancement request is to fix this wrong > > terminology wrt BOTH `global-mark-ring' and > > `mark-ring'. > > And `yank' doesn't yank, and `kill' doesn't kill literally. And 'window' is not a window, it's a pane; and 'frame' is actually a window, etc. etc. > What is the most important is that docstrings should describe > the behavior in all details. The name is more a matter of taste. Indeed. Especially since what these functions really do is only slightly different from a literal "pop". We shouldn't waste our time on such renaming, IMO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 26 09:14:24 2019 Received: (at 16074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2019 13:14:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45769 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i2EpD-0007Uu-Tm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 09:14:24 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:32880) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i2EpB-0007Ug-GO for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 09:14:22 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7QDDtsi099113; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 13:14:15 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=Hze+WaoAyen8aQ70Ujdzhkjt19H5zP3xaYrwqciZRZo=; b=MF0yXLcZiEtLQjHVNdMm2Y7fFzX+yS4JQ0z+hsuD1OUoXWNwGkeBVPW7TEgVHjjh1VHN eMlyML/6PD1kZ6N0LOV8GDhrUeDxffi8Aj5rUAaS+/9icMgIIUKCSBh9tHCZ+2hKSDim k7NSiueYrVbB8qNEszQMVaDy8h5llWgkMD0WII0oHDqCECDWpeN7ohiGFEiDi/8/I0C4 lAbNA3EdLFB9TeMrDAkhfh8ZL3FwVw2x8BFvI6jHzrYcrlDGQxi2bSLS5SlkvS4AtxJc 3EVieSzNmg1jNBFvzDeTmkjLfYizuyLp5c0/vlCPFkOjpumZQ8yWum0m4rTkOrKea354 2w== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ujw7190dg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Aug 2019 13:14:15 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7QDE2G8128994; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 13:14:14 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ujw6hu2rn-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Aug 2019 13:14:13 +0000 Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x7QDE0wA024986; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 13:14:00 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <765ae33e-8f34-4d69-9fa2-00ad24356852@default> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 06:13:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Juri Linkov Subject: RE: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' References: <> <<87y2zh94nz.fsf@gnus.org>> <> <<87a7bxm12m.fsf@mail.linkov.net>> <<837e70h284.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<837e70h284.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9360 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908260144 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9360 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908260144 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 16074@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > A position is NOT popped off the ring. That's what's > > > wrong with all of these. Likewise, the doc in the > > > manuals. > > > > > > The enhancement request is to fix this wrong > > > terminology wrt BOTH `global-mark-ring' and > > > `mark-ring'. > > > > And `yank' doesn't yank, and `kill' doesn't kill literally. >=20 > And 'window' is not a window, it's a pane; and 'frame' is actually a > window, etc. etc. And all of those terms are standard Emacs terminology, defined clearly and used consistently. That's not the case with this outlier use of "pop", which is not a pop but is exactly what Emacs calls "cycling" of a ring. And again, it's about the doc also, not just the function names. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 12 18:27:37 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Aug 2020 22:27:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45817 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5zDd-0007Ex-Mz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 18:27:37 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f176.google.com ([209.85.219.176]:46292) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5zDb-0007Eh-FU for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 18:27:36 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f176.google.com with SMTP id x10so2193325ybj.13 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 15:27:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=vBG/Ihq9C/1grF1gZeJH29CZ54pUolofYyNwNZSTk+A=; b=UTN+Hu+neLTDQZdIsYg2qH5orhcIcz9sAjSLPSPBgVoUm+izcjd44HePYY2L+D4fIm gjjPC2kAVGMpygwpLzOXBDke17xmW9ZTZ9DdnxGgboIP+0jifK9UVKrUyBD6KmBSnTGA FjjnuD6D/JX6wd4Z5QVENgLV2ZLocLWTEmHLk4mTJLvNS+YZ69w5Y3ZIIzF/8aAf3AEf R9vr1mxEvGgmrgUECFAZnZqVelL623O3f5M+Xc56JmVTVaHGzpCf4skA+xiM9NCmu3cC 39vFN0UOAD3LCZ8p9iEPe2xwn9l8zh4IO9cq/o77JdaVgF38wDO+3mRz+EcQ6DyYUGSx 27XQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5324mPDH5IJVSGmonOmbsKD71/M2Gx2ia6XOk4jkEzsn4PH+PvZO YwV4QQvNquhFAiWNdH0CiHrMpG1IYtDN7k0HIOx/2eVCElztIw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwNeTkI1GR8La9cfG//W4ybzV+zAf+wg/v5XLVOSYR2PHuKdh4SaoZST0AneiE4dYnRYql3nscTMrLlls5ryzg= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:508:: with SMTP id o8mr2563175ybp.43.1597271249958; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 15:27:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 00:27:17 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: To: control Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: tags 16074 + patch thanks Content analysis details: (2.0 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.219.176 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.219.176 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stefankangas[at]gmail.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 PDS_TONAME_EQ_TOLOCAL_VSHORT Very short body and From looks like 2 different emails 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager tags 16074 + patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 13 06:47:27 2020 Received: (at 16074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2020 10:47:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47082 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k6Alb-0003lm-C8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2020 06:47:27 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:56132) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k6AlZ-0003fq-OC for 16074@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2020 06:47:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Lr0n0Ft9pbV8QH/cnfHzWiR9KrxcxPlHw0narotNQVA=; b=WKXfDtMe/H8myI810xG7U7Y47e /mrqKvOl+6PukzX+M92Y/2u9TdeSnG7dUNTR8DFSOh5k3FBRwN5Id5Mcdusd/TnNclaakJAKCWUOK nGKeVuw9VsQcu1t56VaWj5eLQx8rVlzXhzMiVbecln/lRglbYlCB0duvZ+WSavxaORjU=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k6AlP-0005BD-JS; Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:47:18 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#16074: 24.3.50; enhancement request: Remove "pop" from command names & doc for `C-(u|x) C-SPC' References: <87y2zh94nz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a7bxm12m.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <837e70h284.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:47:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <837e70h284.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 26 Aug 2019 09:26:03 +0300") Message-ID: <87v9hmesb2.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> What is the most important is that docstrings should describe >> the behavior in all details. The name is more a matter of taste. > > Indeed. Especially since what these functions really do is only [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16074 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 16074@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, Juri Linkov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> What is the most important is that docstrings should describe >> the behavior in all details. The name is more a matter of taste. > > Indeed. Especially since what these functions really do is only > slightly different from a literal "pop". > > We shouldn't waste our time on such renaming, IMO. OK, it doesn't sound like this renaming was greatly favoured, so I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 13 06:47:32 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2020 10:47:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47085 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k6Alf-0003pF-Nu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2020 06:47:31 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:56144) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k6Ale-0003jn-AF for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2020 06:47:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=JIoneDM2AtkvLUmMMVpIxuOvxpAFv/Ns7NHBWGhFLMw=; b=HJSPG9xQ5/hkBxLqMyUoZxlZe/ i6FGE6Gutajooeo9jtCOtzEOxJSHHh0IjO4pYh0zX0LYcKXY9JjNOEb+S0HFii+rYUCEdocw8FLXW QPu1iOTtzsUwKD3DxA/9GPQfllxRlYxcjcjKffrkVV+85l/6UxKXgxsef30plD0Th+g0=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k6AlW-0005BN-F5 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:47:24 +0200 Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:47:21 +0200 Message-Id: <87tux6esau.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #16074 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 16074 wontfix close 16074 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 16074 wontfix close 16074 quit From unknown Sat Aug 09 15:52:19 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 11:24:13 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator