From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:03:04 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#16057 <16057@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#16057 <16057@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Non-parallel test suite API changes in 1.13 Reply-To: bug#16057 <16057@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2025 21:03:04 +0000 retitle 16057 Non-parallel test suite API changes in 1.13 reassign 16057 automake submitter 16057 Behdad Esfahbod severity 16057 normal tag 16057 notabug thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 04 20:38:12 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2013 01:38:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58639 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VoNtK-000139-W3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:38:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40975) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VoNtD-00012f-5X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:38:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoNtB-0006iK-PZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:38:02 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:44667) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoNtB-0006iD-N2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:38:01 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42663) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoNtA-0000tN-Mf for bug-automake@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:38:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoNt7-0006gt-P1 for bug-automake@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:37:58 -0500 Received: from mail-ie0-x22a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a]:51460) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoNt7-0006gi-Kd for bug-automake@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:37:57 -0500 Received: by mail-ie0-f170.google.com with SMTP id qd12so28624071ieb.15 for ; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:37:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5RpmSVY7bGWkA4Bf9junSXBLVanZ64lkXG+DQsmG/Lk=; b=P3qFVvtg0VxrXD0hN9TZBVQrXbDFSyn5rmWL9SdmUhZaR3d+AlGePQWtETpHEzN1ua TplZY2BcTHoWGVgbV98FUrG7ifPGsLnDCx9P+DFq8CgWmqF1uD4u1qlhNOZ6BSZUIdDc sZn2e4AslBm2B6mXil+zK262STBMVCv2lwPuYm7VC6O2Iu35AfqXtAgVGyNBYnXFvlNU /YVHeCmtUNNh0QcNKGvBZmS06LbVBpoHE2W07jddwQ3ZZAe3OWcvr20AXTt8Kcbybf9U +2V2frRhgG9yl4UCk2YXGA9Fbm2j0DIn/rrt3D/xs8Ee6meudbrQx3c/7ZbRgHc9zV2h Yl4Q== X-Received: by 10.50.41.38 with SMTP id c6mr3589164igl.47.1386207476726; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:37:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.30.221.169] (dhcp-172-30-221-169.tor.corp.google.com [172.30.221.169]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id u1sm1078051ige.1.2013.12.04.17.37.55 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:37:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <529FD8F3.4070009@behdad.org> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:37:55 -0500 From: Behdad Esfahbod User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bug-automake@gnu.org Subject: Non-parallel test suite API changes in 1.13 X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Hi, Please advise how one is supposed to port their pre-1.13 test suite's TESTS_ENVIRONMENT to 1.13. Currently, in fontconfig and harfbuzz at least, we cannot find a solution that works both with 1.11 and 1.13, and we cannot require 1.13. Example change that is not acceptable: https://github.com/behdad/harfbuzz/commit/d913f98d88098fc0f4163dfbc54d8ca9ebe9dd81 Thanks, -- behdad http://behdad.org/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 04 20:48:41 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2013 01:48:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58652 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VoO3U-0001JQ-LF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:48:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42339) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VoO3S-0001JI-JZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:48:39 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoO3R-0001UN-7X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:48:38 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:50353) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoO3R-0001UJ-4E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:48:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44061) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoO3Q-0004o0-4s for bug-automake@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:48:37 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoO3P-0001U4-2v for bug-automake@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:48:36 -0500 Received: from mail-ie0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c03::232]:43014) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoO3O-0001Tz-Ta for bug-automake@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:48:34 -0500 Received: by mail-ie0-f178.google.com with SMTP id lx4so28906142iec.9 for ; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:48:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nkPd4EQ5xIgoci1sRqmgrpKcjr+cK0Wk6cqVTgJJjPM=; b=LGM//iHZQvJ7u+j7rhkCjKHSZg48vO6zhFNN66G9VJvdM9ySpbQ7HBfpCIxVeNQFv9 ouaFWC0LHf61ICzpBXo371MHhJhT6MF6ESDtj2bWb1IYWCgTmfPvWMi1ZgFOmgKQf+w3 uHOzZOq9JHFoeqtmb5/cuiaX2urZvYnhiQnf4jMCpf51L4r37/JEkLBt4uhfni0wfQgP Nn3cYI8/g8mP7hx7KNTCdEA5wCzBmE0AJZKYPvsoinT8RdVLhReI1tmANBVplonLYuyv guPzmXalBJJ0BmYkFHOCXyKGAsuNY5REA1+254IpA7IgfJnQfW1csOEGkHYe0C8WCPL7 f+kg== X-Received: by 10.43.132.137 with SMTP id hu9mr58093icc.72.1386208114185; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:48:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.30.221.169] (dhcp-172-30-221-169.tor.corp.google.com [172.30.221.169]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id da14sm1123845igc.1.2013.12.04.17.48.33 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:48:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <529FDB70.10600@behdad.org> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:48:32 -0500 From: Behdad Esfahbod User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bug-automake@gnu.org Subject: Re: Non-parallel test suite API changes in 1.13 References: <529FD8F3.4070009@behdad.org> In-Reply-To: <529FD8F3.4070009@behdad.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) FWIW, the serial-tests is useless since it makes automake < 1.13 to fail. :( On 13-12-04 08:37 PM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > Hi, > > Please advise how one is supposed to port their pre-1.13 test suite's > TESTS_ENVIRONMENT to 1.13. Currently, in fontconfig and harfbuzz at least, we > cannot find a solution that works both with 1.11 and 1.13, and we cannot > require 1.13. > > Example change that is not acceptable: > > > https://github.com/behdad/harfbuzz/commit/d913f98d88098fc0f4163dfbc54d8ca9ebe9dd81 > > Thanks, > -- behdad http://behdad.org/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 05 17:28:44 2013 Received: (at 16057) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2013 22:28:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60626 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VohPX-0000se-Lj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:28:44 -0500 Received: from mail-wg0-f41.google.com ([74.125.82.41]:40469) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VohPV-0000sT-7F; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:28:41 -0500 Received: by mail-wg0-f41.google.com with SMTP id y10so177052wgg.0 for ; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 14:28:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=q2WnZAt7mcWYbNSFdHz1d2jTuVdI9/apdasJ9D50bXY=; b=HY8+yHgk0xW35JRXNCn1tJxujFMJgSHXtfVCnZWwI6TKPnY81gQO8PmSyTcUV1G2eE HOj5aNiDFY460mdclfYklnSPm6fAotzpcKWZKuWRyqbpwPcnT9+z5u7kXoUmE1oRxat2 sbkP2hKOc5khGR6clnfGPnxBigCWx5WE8vtRGiB/apPpulqM6hI9oVYHd5lYJK8r1tFh JzXyri3qwcOIgPyPVBWmIv0OHIDvUQDjigdTVeo4MIbD3ldOsSlLWlWA0gm5q50mGQIJ +CeRb9SNF0bYpwKcEoEszDdZbqzo6Uq4WQMFa6H0l0O4IP3nDnJSvKPwXbrsM/uY/BUA YAbw== X-Received: by 10.194.123.8 with SMTP id lw8mr122585wjb.40.1386282520120; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 14:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([79.97.144.61]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w20sm347743wia.5.2013.12.05.14.28.38 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Dec 2013 14:28:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52A0FE10.3060101@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:28:32 +0000 From: Stefano Lattarini MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Behdad Esfahbod Subject: Re: bug#16057: Non-parallel test suite API changes in 1.13 References: <529FD8F3.4070009@behdad.org> In-Reply-To: <529FD8F3.4070009@behdad.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16057 Cc: 16057@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) tags 16057 notabug close 16057 stop On 12/05/2013 01:37 AM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > Hi, > Hello Behdad. > Please advise how one is supposed to port their pre-1.13 test suite's > TESTS_ENVIRONMENT to 1.13. Currently, in fontconfig and harfbuzz at least, we > cannot find a solution that works both with 1.11 and 1.13, and we cannot > require 1.13. > Why not? 1.13 is almost one year old now... > Example change that is not acceptable: > > https://github.com/behdad/harfbuzz/commit/d913f98d88098fc0f4163dfbc54d8ca9ebe9dd81 > Sorry but my suggestion would be exactly along the lines of that commit. You might be able to keep 1.11 compatibility with some more-or-less hacky workaround, but I'm not going to try to work out the details, because I believe that is the wrong approach. Automake is only required by developers, it's easy to install (and to install multiple versions in parallel, if different level of APIs compatibilities are needed), and only requires a very tiny amount of disk space. I'm closing this bug as "works as intended". Sorry. Regards, Stefano From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 05 17:38:26 2013 Received: (at 16057) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2013 22:38:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60652 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VohYv-0002FM-Rj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:38:26 -0500 Received: from mail-ie0-f175.google.com ([209.85.223.175]:35007) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VohYs-0002FD-Nf for 16057@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:38:23 -0500 Received: by mail-ie0-f175.google.com with SMTP id x13so31188724ief.34 for <16057@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 14:38:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=amQ392Snt7EJR5OQp5B9BO2CAi98+voMIQK+0dupBP0=; b=OXmmwxh8eefqLha2pC4tI/F/yYM991xuW3U2HcbITuMax99ElRcsSJ6uUS8BLVhUNy Ui3Tq4R2lcji8KVuQFawEh6QpayAoBzXLzHsCYrm/DVUF8/J0AIU11/yDYEdUEkGkpMY tcMSU+2dBFJPvFMBIf6Zxdh88tYbeAlxGYVJqqwEfOXSt48fKOr8cB0+2nu/iQ7J5vsT NAHRPAVpL+oc9is2fL39wxvZch2RKzZa5RYKwEJU6kOYLamcOxi3HNE8wb5erXDQUBDP zcXHCbn28Egb0/Yob19kiOFAc4yfoQKyuc3kkM5Oz1Z0X4FqwkBpfuL1ovv1NmJUyQkc bOdQ== X-Received: by 10.50.51.68 with SMTP id i4mr214138igo.22.1386283101987; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 14:38:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.30.221.169] (dhcp-172-30-221-169.tor.corp.google.com [172.30.221.169]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qi3sm258432igc.8.2013.12.05.14.38.20 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Dec 2013 14:38:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52A1005C.9000201@behdad.org> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:38:20 -0500 From: Behdad Esfahbod User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefano Lattarini Subject: Re: bug#16057: Non-parallel test suite API changes in 1.13 References: <529FD8F3.4070009@behdad.org> <52A0FE10.3060101@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52A0FE10.3060101@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16057 Cc: 16057@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 13-12-05 05:28 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote: > Why not? 1.13 is almost one year old now... Why not? Because I don't require any feature new in 1.13, yet it breaks my package. Also because it's in no long-term-support distro like Ubuntu 12.04. I personally installed 1.13 and released a tarball with it, just to discover that travis-ci.org, our automated continuous-build server, doesn't have automake 1.13. So now I have to patch that system, and ask all my developer / testers to install automake 1.13. All these not even because we use any feature new in 1.13... At least to allow fixing similar issues in the future, make AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE warn about unknown options but not err. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 05 17:49:28 2013 Received: (at 16057) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2013 22:49:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vohjb-0002WU-L5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:49:28 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:23356) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VohjX-0002WK-VJ for 16057@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:49:25 -0500 Received: from int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.23]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rB5MnIED003244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:49:19 -0500 Received: from [10.3.113.22] (ovpn-113-22.phx2.redhat.com [10.3.113.22]) by int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rB5MnI4c018923; Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:49:18 -0500 Message-ID: <52A102EE.2020302@redhat.com> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:49:18 -0700 From: Eric Blake Organization: Red Hat, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefano Lattarini , Behdad Esfahbod Subject: Re: bug#16057: Non-parallel test suite API changes in 1.13 References: <529FD8F3.4070009@behdad.org> <52A0FE10.3060101@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52A0FE10.3060101@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 OpenPGP: url=http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bHDQ2EtrQnrPwPLaSb33HHgdDOfa6VeVE" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.23 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16057 Cc: 16057@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --bHDQ2EtrQnrPwPLaSb33HHgdDOfa6VeVE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 12/05/2013 03:28 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote: > tags 16057 notabug > close 16057 > stop >=20 > On 12/05/2013 01:37 AM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: >> Hi, >> > Hello Behdad. >=20 >> Please advise how one is supposed to port their pre-1.13 test suite's >> TESTS_ENVIRONMENT to 1.13. Currently, in fontconfig and harfbuzz at l= east, we >> cannot find a solution that works both with 1.11 and 1.13, and we cann= ot >> require 1.13. >> > Why not? 1.13 is almost one year old now... Believe it or not, some people still like to make their project work with out-of-the-box tools. In the case of libvirt, we strive to make our Makefile.am work on the software available in CentOS 5 (hello, patched automake 1.9) - and it is not a coincidence that this is also the oldest version still actively supported by gnulib. Just because newer releases are now a year old, and in spite of the fact that automake is fairly easy to self-install from a tarball, does NOT imply that everyone is willing to self-install. For good or for bad, there are enough developers that think of the autotools as magic black boxes that they are unwilling to use any version not shipped by their distro. So, anything that upstream automake can do to document HOW to write a Makefile.am that works on both modern AND ancient automake is appreciated= =2E > You might be able to keep 1.11 compatibility with some more-or-less > hacky workaround, but I'm not going to try to work out the details, > because I believe that is the wrong approach. Automake is only > required by developers, it's easy to install (and to install multiple > versions in parallel, if different level of APIs compatibilities are > needed), and only requires a very tiny amount of disk space. >=20 > I'm closing this bug as "works as intended". Sorry. I'm sorry to see this attitude; it is in the best interest as a developer tool to specifically document how to write code that still works with older versions. While it is okay to encourage the use of newer tools, we can't be so blind as to assume that people won't (or even can't) upgrade as fast as we'd like. Is AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE in 1.11 smart enough to handle m4 conditionals in the set of options requested? And if so, can that be coupled with the use of m4_ifdef or some other m4 code to probe for a feature that only exists in 1.13 or newer? If so, try something along the lines of: AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([1.11.1 gnits ...]m4_ifdef([1.13-witness], [ serial-test= s]) --=20 Eric Blake eblake redhat com +1-919-301-3266 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org --bHDQ2EtrQnrPwPLaSb33HHgdDOfa6VeVE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Public key at http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJSoQLuAAoJEKeha0olJ0NqQlwIAIY+WToLjphhGQdE0WqQWlLw 0iHHfZ888fvR+uud/iVI7ww2P96CYbz9PyCjoKFaZJqXqnbJIFkxuYNIfSMbCEAM 8oHl470VG9XzpfhG4BeGCTR1R13jeTmYVcE4UE18S29ImAauYO5mx0qCSv2u2NOw 37DhbZZZb06Qve4nfIHCw2ipcv553Y9UwmYFtNeT8mTMDdIz+AZ86Y5Nf2RzCuhA MyC71rvOziLqaAQFMdMGM/eAtKAujSjMI8l5Sii632Esdj8KJw0e3xjWkcCKZyPb 6kFffkNxs4Lk6DyKivBVRR333Bkw8ULqg+pbyU/OjMeM7+zXvY6IHczUXXQh+FM= =2jep -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bHDQ2EtrQnrPwPLaSb33HHgdDOfa6VeVE-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 05 18:03:09 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2013 23:03:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vohwq-0002rT-S4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 18:03:09 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53036) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vohwo-0002rK-UX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 18:03:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vohwg-00047w-9I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 18:03:06 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:34662) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vohwg-00047q-6b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 18:02:58 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54710) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VohwX-0001lN-PS for bug-automake@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 18:02:58 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VohwP-00046D-D9 for bug-automake@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 18:02:49 -0500 Received: from mail-pd0-x22e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22e]:35032) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VohwP-000466-3G for bug-automake@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 18:02:41 -0500 Received: by mail-pd0-f174.google.com with SMTP id y13so25359556pdi.5 for ; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:02:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=q6DNSIsgICpq2pcQl0yrosqdi+SkmcV2yXGXUvMrI6k=; b=VZvX5Vsk/SA+osJl5dzUG70GVqV/KkAnSTn3yloO4Q6hPILlJIuDySCJA7nAF1DMoB jPPHH2lZTFElMJm/JE0E5A4EUlsuflORJoz/NxS3V44Zb2X65aa4M1NKxp1N+kzl5UOg 0xOcMaNaJ4jOfzxvnuLLDzgAHEBv3dDLdNfeSphRBSb98xju+Gxz+FpIXOCJqJ4CsQom ++y9DIxdKOKXZMkLfzMi4PaheVIqA4yZWvACLw6C2WLscJ6Dvj+yr8wT/DfGAeLLZkcD NiceH+af2ujUSkp9jHASmpn9dA19K6ECZvUnwNBFsNstz3U584t6IS0PwRY/xYI7folz pyXw== X-Received: by 10.66.161.194 with SMTP id xu2mr212517pab.120.1386284558597; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:02:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.3.81.47] (gateway.qimr.edu.au. [152.98.8.1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id yi10sm5656601pab.8.2013.12.05.15.02.36 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:02:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52A10317.8040408@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 08:49:59 +1000 From: Peter Johansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.12) Gecko/20130108 Thunderbird/10.0.12 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bug-automake@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#16057: Non-parallel test suite API changes in 1.13 References: <529FD8F3.4070009@behdad.org> <52A0FE10.3060101@gmail.com> <52A102EE.2020302@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <52A102EE.2020302@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) On 12/06/2013 08:49 AM, Eric Blake wrote: >> Why not? 1.13 is almost one year old now... > Believe it or not, some people still like to make their project work > with out-of-the-box tools. +1 -- Peter Johansson From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 05 18:22:35 2013 Received: (at 16057) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2013 23:22:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60717 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VoiFf-0004TK-Gi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 18:22:35 -0500 Received: from mail-ie0-f171.google.com ([209.85.223.171]:49257) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VoiFd-0004TD-NC for 16057@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:22:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52A10AB7.9070704@behdad.org> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 18:22:31 -0500 From: Behdad Esfahbod User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Blake , Stefano Lattarini Subject: Re: bug#16057: Non-parallel test suite API changes in 1.13 References: <529FD8F3.4070009@behdad.org> <52A0FE10.3060101@gmail.com> <52A102EE.2020302@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <52A102EE.2020302@redhat.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16057 Cc: 16057@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 13-12-05 05:49 PM, Eric Blake wrote: > AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([1.11.1 gnits ...]m4_ifdef([1.13-witness], [ > serial-tests]) I ended up working around it like this: https://github.com/behdad/harfbuzz/commit/2646aec1e67cd6e09f5f7859c9d5898917acc2d5 - -- behdad http://behdad.org/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlKhCrcACgkQn+4E5dNTERXYOwCfVIqqFFXiAJRukm2KrE/8na+i 6nIAni8fKjqalln2irdsWKGCAZNt5int =+utR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 05 18:25:25 2013 Received: (at 16057) by debbugs.gnu.org; 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Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([79.97.144.61]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id g16sm719051wiw.6.2013.12.05.15.25.19 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:25:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52A10B5F.7080207@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 23:25:19 +0000 From: Stefano Lattarini MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Blake Subject: Re: bug#16057: Non-parallel test suite API changes in 1.13 References: <529FD8F3.4070009@behdad.org> <52A0FE10.3060101@gmail.com> <52A102EE.2020302@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <52A102EE.2020302@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16057 Cc: 16057@debbugs.gnu.org, Behdad Esfahbod X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 12/05/2013 10:49 PM, Eric Blake wrote: > On 12/05/2013 03:28 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote: >> tags 16057 notabug >> close 16057 >> stop >> >> On 12/05/2013 01:37 AM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >> Hello Behdad. >> >>> Please advise how one is supposed to port their pre-1.13 test suite's >>> TESTS_ENVIRONMENT to 1.13. Currently, in fontconfig and harfbuzz at least, we >>> cannot find a solution that works both with 1.11 and 1.13, and we cannot >>> require 1.13. >>> >> Why not? 1.13 is almost one year old now... > > Believe it or not, some people still like to make their project work > with out-of-the-box tools. > I believe it, but I disagree with this approach, when the out-of-the-box tools are too outdated (But see below, the bit about documentation). > In the case of libvirt, we strive to make > our Makefile.am work on the software available in CentOS 5 (hello, > patched automake 1.9) - and it is not a coincidence that this is also > the oldest version still actively supported by gnulib. Just because > newer releases are now a year old, and in spite of the fact that > automake is fairly easy to self-install from a tarball, does NOT imply > that everyone is willing to self-install. > And I'm not willing to support such unwillingness, unless it's very easy do. Sorry. As I've already admitted, in retrospective, switching the default testsuite behaviour in a minor release have been a bad idea, since I broke the expectations of compatibility held by the users. But I can't change that mistake now now, and I believe the best way forward from the situation we are in is to encourage developers to update their tools. (And I believe we should do so also in the future -- but only by bumping major versions more frequently, not by breaking compatibility between minor versions). > For good or for bad, there > are enough developers that think of the autotools as magic black boxes > that they are unwilling to use any version not shipped by their distro. > I'm not willing to go to great lengths to support such attitude in the developers, sorry. > So, anything that upstream automake can do to document HOW to write a > Makefile.am that works on both modern AND ancient automake is appreciated. > OTOH, I see no harm in documenting possible workarounds; we already do so so for other use cases we don't really support (e.g., keeping autotools generated files in a Git repository): it's easy to do, doesn't require us to maintain more code, and makes it clear to the user that it is not an encouraged setup and that maintaining it is his responsibility, not ours. So, patches welcome. >> You might be able to keep 1.11 compatibility with some more-or-less >> hacky workaround, but I'm not going to try to work out the details, >> because I believe that is the wrong approach. Automake is only >> required by developers, it's easy to install (and to install multiple >> versions in parallel, if different level of APIs compatibilities are >> needed), and only requires a very tiny amount of disk space. >> >> I'm closing this bug as "works as intended". Sorry. > > I'm sorry to see this attitude; it is in the best interest as a > developer tool to specifically document how to write code that still > works with older versions. While it is okay to encourage the use of > newer tools, we can't be so blind as to assume that people won't (or > even can't) upgrade as fast as we'd like. > We don't completely disagree in this at least (see above). > Is AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE in 1.11 smart enough to handle m4 conditionals in > the set of options requested? > I think so (I'm not going to try it myself, but if somebody else does, I won't throw away the insight he gets ;-) > And if so, can that be coupled with the > use of m4_ifdef or some other m4 code to probe for a feature that only > exists in 1.13 or newer? If so, try something along the lines of: > > AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([1.11.1 gnits ...]m4_ifdef([1.13-witness], [ serial-tests]) > The problem with this might be if the "1.13-witness" gets screwd up by distro-specific patches somehow. If you manage to avoid that, seems a reasonable workaround. Regards, Stefano From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 05 23:26:01 2013 Received: (at 16057) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Dec 2013 04:26:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:61000 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VomzI-0003a5-Vi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 23:26:01 -0500 Received: from mail-ie0-f176.google.com ([209.85.223.176]:56779) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VomzG-0003Zx-UN for 16057@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 23:25:59 -0500 Received: by mail-ie0-f176.google.com with SMTP id at1so340523iec.35 for <16057@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 20:25:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QrN24LT74LK79W/iofe/QvCCpz0YGL0dVnnW7y3P6G0=; b=s2MtLPnUc/+t5Aq4lR1E4yb2HXeCaha8W5e1Sw9axO3DnyPUN2ii08HK957c1gepQM jZUf49zPOT05BKIqu3XPK6JMIdh9iNdBsEDIbb3kkQ9yQSu2aJEzXH4DX7W9sJObyC35 bE3/l6D0GulQ6gSu8Mbkrc9+HM/iSvtToSkpq3YEM9YqQ6tyTfbHt5jHMyWXu1bbh46A Thd310IpgsFxDvVFbG3BLhPwvHeZjdbXU0TgjCy/YiIclk8PdGBGU57WzwpQRThbgF43 IvLIEzbUG+J4NpKGhvZoE8z32LpKNdL8rA+xoNWQSQMvngu9q2Qnm1gvlQnZi0+/Th6S qhYg== X-Received: by 10.42.61.147 with SMTP id u19mr1016816ich.36.1386303958381; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 20:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.229] (CPEf0def1c60345-CMbcc810088856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.184.77]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id f5sm1777183igc.4.2013.12.05.20.25.57 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Dec 2013 20:25:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52A151D4.4060901@behdad.org> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 23:25:56 -0500 From: Behdad Esfahbod User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefano Lattarini , Eric Blake Subject: Re: bug#16057: Non-parallel test suite API changes in 1.13 References: <529FD8F3.4070009@behdad.org> <52A0FE10.3060101@gmail.com> <52A102EE.2020302@redhat.com> <52A10B5F.7080207@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52A10B5F.7080207@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16057 Cc: 16057@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 13-12-05 06:25 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote: >> For good or for bad, there >> > are enough developers that think of the autotools as magic black boxes >> > that they are unwilling to use any version not shipped by their distro. >> > > I'm not willing to go to great lengths to support such attitude in the > developers, sorry. You broke backwards compatibility. That was a bug. You could spend two hours and fix it. Instead, you decided to carry the bug forward and force every maintainer to deal with it. All you need to do to fix it is, if TESTS_ENVIRONMENT is defined but not AM_TESTS_ENVIRONMENT, assume old behavior, and possibly print a warning. I don't see how that's going to "great lengths", and mind you, to fix a bug you introduced, not to support any attitudes in other people whatsoever. The irony is, now we need to write code to achieve portability over different versions of automake, so we can enjoy portability to different versions of makes and whatever else automake promises to do. :) Anyway, I can find workaround for my own cases. I just find the attitude a step in the wrong direction. Cheers, -- behdad http://behdad.org/ From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:03:04 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2014 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator