GNU bug report logs - #16038
24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless

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Message #83 received at 16038 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: martin rudalics <rudalics <at> gmx.at>
Cc: Leo Liu <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>, 16038 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#16038: 24.3;	latest change to with-help-window makes
 temp-buffer-browse useless
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:33:18 -0800 (PST)

> > Maybe you should try to fix this problem:
> >  > But I have no code that uses `with-temp-buffer-window'.
> >
> > What problem?  Just what are you suggesting, concretely?
> > What's the relation to fixing bug #8368?
> 
> First re-read the thread of bug#8368.  Then read the doc-string of
> `with-temp-buffer-window'.  Then re-read the thread of bug#8368.
> Then re-read the doc-string ...

I have.  But why do you say that -- is bug #8368 fixed?

If you have a concrete suggestion, please offer it.
And what is the "problem" that needs fixing with my not having
any code that uses `with-temp-buffer-window'?

If bug #8368 is now fixed, great: What code to replace with what
code, concretely?  Are the misnamed macros and hooks being renamed
as well?

I don't see that in the doc string of `with-temp-buffer-window'.
If a macro and the hooks it uses are all about *Help* then they
should not be named `with-output-to-temp-buffer',
`temp-buffer-setup-hook' etc.  They should have "help" in their
names instead of "temp".   ===> bug #8368.

Adding new hooks that have almost the same names but very different
meanings and uses is a bad idea.  `temp-buffer-window-setup-hook'
and `temp-buffer-setup-hook' sound like they would be similar, with
the difference being "window".  Alas no.

I don't have a problem with your new names.  The problem is with
the old names, and with not deprecating them, _especially_ after
adding false-friend new names.

The old macros and hooks should be renamed to use "help" - with
aliases provided for the old names, with deprecation of the old
names, and preferably with no plan to _ever_ desupport the old
names.  (Deprecation does not imply desupport.  It allows for
later desupport, but in some cases desupport is not possible or
advisable or necessary.)

FWIW, the NEWS is, I would think, one good place to put
deprecation notices.  If `with-output-to-temp-buffer' is
deprecated, we should learn in the NEWS that this is the case
AND what it is replaced by. IOW, tell users how to update their
code.  Likewise for the misnamed hooks etc.

Instead, at least so far, NEWS has only this: 

  *** New macro `with-temp-buffer-window', similar to
  `with-output-to-temp-buffer'.

That "similar to" might do more harm than help.

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