From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 20 17:09:38 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Nov 2013 22:09:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35291 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VjFxp-0005Nk-MO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:09:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39446) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VjFxm-0005NV-JO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:09:36 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VjFxX-00082j-83 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:09:29 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:56769) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VjFxX-00082f-54 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:09:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41111) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VjFxO-0002bL-IU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:09:19 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VjFxF-0007uu-1Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:09:10 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:50776) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VjFxE-0007pc-Ri for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:09:00 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id rAKM8wIv030227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 22:08:58 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rAKM8v9H023646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 22:08:57 GMT Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rAKM8v2j020899 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 22:08:57 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:08:57 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.3.50; doc string of `lwarn' refers to undefined variables X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) emacs -Q C-h f lwarn The doc string says: "(but see `warning-minimum-level' and `warning-minimum-log-level')" That's impossible, before warning.el has been loaded - the variables are undefined. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2013-11-12 on LEG570 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --enable-checking 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' CPPFLAGS=3D-DGLYPH_DEBUG= =3D1' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 07 22:14:54 2014 Received: (at 15940) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2014 03:14:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WByNZ-0004eo-Km for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 22:14:53 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:58732) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WByNY-0004ee-1V for 15940@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 22:14:52 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WByNJ-00041V-78; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 04:14:37 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#15940: 24.3.50; doc string of `lwarn' refers to undefined variables References: Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 19:13:29 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:08:57 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <87eh3e9u06.fsf@building.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1WByNJ-00041V-78 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392434078.33369@5SCLfxOs2/L2CRii6NDprg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15940 Cc: 15940@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Drew Adams writes: > C-h f lwarn > > The doc string says: > > "(but see `warning-minimum-level' and `warning-minimum-log-level')" > > That's impossible, before warning.el has been loaded - the variables are > undefined. Yeah, it's unfortunate that autoloaded functions can't really refer to other variables from its "home package" in the help system. Would it make sense for the help system to always load the package an autoloaded function is defined in? Especially if the doc string refers to other `...' items? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 08 04:12:18 2014 Received: (at 15940) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2014 09:12:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56404 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WC3xO-0007yo-6K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 04:12:17 -0500 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:63393) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WC3xH-0007ya-Gr for 15940@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 04:12:11 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N0O005006CU6W00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 15940@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:12:06 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N0O005MD6W56G10@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:12:05 +0200 (IST) Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:11:48 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#15940: 24.3.50; doc string of `lwarn' refers to undefined variables In-reply-to: <87eh3e9u06.fsf@building.gnus.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Message-id: <83y51mvui3.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87eh3e9u06.fsf@building.gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15940 Cc: 15940@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 19:13:29 -0800 > Cc: 15940@debbugs.gnu.org > > Drew Adams writes: > > > C-h f lwarn > > > > The doc string says: > > > > "(but see `warning-minimum-level' and `warning-minimum-log-level')" > > > > That's impossible, before warning.el has been loaded - the variables are > > undefined. > > Yeah, it's unfortunate that autoloaded functions can't really refer to > other variables from its "home package" in the help system. > > Would it make sense for the help system to always load the package an > autoloaded function is defined in? Especially if the doc string refers > to other `...' items? Why not simply auto-load those variables, especially if the doc string refers to them? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 08 15:07:02 2014 Received: (at 15940) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2014 20:07:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58189 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCEB3-0000WB-Av for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:07:01 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:42579) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCEB0-0000Vx-Hd for 15940@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:06:59 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WCEAx-0006o2-T3; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:06:55 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#15940: 24.3.50; doc string of `lwarn' refers to undefined variables References: <87eh3e9u06.fsf@building.gnus.org> <83y51mvui3.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: anthrax Serbian terrorism AVN infowar ANDVT Semtex BROMURE X-Ran: k/wMr(-vw{JHIO?1"6LVo9~hf4r (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:11:48 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15940 Cc: 15940@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Would it make sense for the help system to always load the package an >> autoloaded function is defined in? Especially if the doc string refers >> to other `...' items? > > Why not simply auto-load those variables, especially if the doc string > refers to them? Because this is a general problem that comes up again and again, and papering over it with manual autoloads every time seems like bad practice. A change was added for this in 24.3: *** `C-h f' (`describe-function') can now perform autoloading. When this command is called for an autoloaded function whose docstring contains a key substitution construct, that function's library is automatically loaded, so that the documentation can be shown correctly. To disable this, set `help-enable-auto-load' to nil. It needs to be generalized somehow. I'm pretty sure this has been discussed multiple times in the past, so there's probably an idea/implementation out there somewhere in the archives. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 08 18:05:22 2014 Received: (at 15940) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2014 23:05:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58341 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCGxd-0000DJ-5j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 18:05:21 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:28933) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCGxa-0000D9-Fj for 15940@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 18:05:18 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s18N5Hrr011681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 8 Feb 2014 23:05:17 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s18N5GgL007939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 8 Feb 2014 23:05:16 GMT Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s18N5FbE029945; Sat, 8 Feb 2014 23:05:15 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2883d530-ea69-480a-8ba7-dbf7751dc29c@default> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 15:05:13 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#15940: 24.3.50; doc string of `lwarn' refers to undefined variables References: <87eh3e9u06.fsf@building.gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87eh3e9u06.fsf@building.gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15940 Cc: 15940@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) > Yeah, it's unfortunate that autoloaded functions can't really refer > to other variables from its "home package" in the help system. >=20 > Would it make sense for the help system to always load the package > an autoloaded function is defined in? Especially if the doc string > refers to other `...' items? Sorry, I can't help you here. But I'm sure Stefan has an idea about it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 08 19:20:39 2014 Received: (at 15940-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2014 00:20:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58385 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCI8V-00029r-9X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 19:20:39 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:45656) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCI8T-00029j-O0 for 15940-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 19:20:38 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WCI8S-0006D6-Od; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 19:20:36 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: 15940-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#15940: 24.3.50; doc string of `lwarn' refers to undefined variables References: <87eh3e9u06.fsf@building.gnus.org> <83y51mvui3.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: M-14 MIT-LL Downing Street fissionable global JPL United X-Ran: L&JRV\?C~!?kh@2OIz,E]:z8n+T{5hL&mgM\.'T&VR'HjbJ-g3"Ae:f]OI_q#b>ed (Glenn Morris's message of "Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:06:52 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15940-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) Version: 24.4 Fixed. From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:28 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2014 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator