From unknown Wed Sep 10 19:49:14 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#15828 <15828@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#15828 <15828@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: behavior of ls -f Reply-To: bug#15828 <15828@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2025 02:49:14 +0000 retitle 15828 behavior of ls -f reassign 15828 coreutils submitter 15828 Aharon Robbins severity 15828 normal tag 15828 notabug thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 07 13:55:06 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2013 18:55:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39739 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VeUjR-0004rU-Vp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 13:55:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50241) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VeUjP-0004qv-Ko for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 13:55:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VeUjE-0003o9-Ex for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 13:54:58 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,T_MANY_HDRS_LCASE autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:42584) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VeUjE-0003o5-Bp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 13:54:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51947) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VeUj8-00024p-Rl for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 13:54:52 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VeUj3-0003lt-DQ for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 13:54:46 -0500 Received: from mxout4.netvision.net.il ([194.90.9.27]:65084) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VeUj3-0003b2-4V for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 13:54:41 -0500 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Received: from skeeve.com ([85.250.92.131]) by mxout4.netvision.net.il (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-24.01(7.0.4.24.0) 64bit (built Nov 17 2011)) with ESMTP id <0MVW00NDWPUY2820@mxout4.netvision.net.il> for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 20:54:35 +0200 (IST) Received: from skeeve.com (skeeve.com [127.0.0.1]) by skeeve.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-2ubuntu2) with ESMTP id rA7IsXeO008111 for ; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 20:54:33 +0200 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by skeeve.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id rA7IsWFn008110 for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 20:54:32 +0200 From: Aharon Robbins Message-id: <201311071854.rA7IsWFn008110@skeeve.com> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 20:54:32 +0200 To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Subject: behavior of ls -f User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 6/20/10 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Hello. There is a difference between the Solaris ls and ls on GNU/Linux and many other systems. In particular, ls -f turns off -l (and other options, see below). This breaks a test I have in the gawk test suite. The citation from POSIX: > > The readdir test fails because the -f option to ls turns off -l. I think > > the Solaris ls is broken. > > This is perfectly POSIX-compliant behavior. See > http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/utilities/ls.html > > -f [XSI] Force each argument to be interpreted as a directory and list the > name found in each slot. This option shall turn off -l, -t, -s, and -r, and > shall turn on -a; the order is the order in which entries appear in the directory. And even if I set POSIXLY_CORRECT GNU/Linux ls doesn't turn off -l. $ ls --version ls (GNU coreutils) 8.13 I will probably rewrite my test (sigh). In the meantime, comments? Thanks, Arnold From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 07 14:57:39 2013 Received: (at 15828) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2013 19:57:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39842 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VeVhz-0006Qu-0Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 14:57:39 -0500 Received: from mail6.vodafone.ie ([213.233.128.184]:34357) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VeVhw-0006Qa-22; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 14:57:37 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApQBADbve1Jdawop/2dsb2JhbAANTYM/vxdKgTyDGQEBAQMBMgFGBQsLDQEKCRYPCQMCAQIBRQYNAQcBAYd3CwipKJNOj1kHhDADlCyFD4U1jkw Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.79]) ([93.107.10.41]) by mail3.vodafone.ie with ESMTP; 07 Nov 2013 19:57:29 +0000 Message-ID: <527BF0A8.8090006@draigBrady.com> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 19:57:28 +0000 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E1draig_Brady?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130110 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aharon Robbins Subject: Re: bug#15828: behavior of ls -f References: <201311071854.rA7IsWFn008110@skeeve.com> In-Reply-To: <201311071854.rA7IsWFn008110@skeeve.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15828 Cc: 15828@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) tag 15828 notabug close 15828 stop On 11/07/2013 06:54 PM, Aharon Robbins wrote: > Hello. > > There is a difference between the Solaris ls and ls on GNU/Linux > and many other systems. In particular, ls -f turns off -l (and other > options, see below). > > This breaks a test I have in the gawk test suite. > > The citation from POSIX: > >>> The readdir test fails because the -f option to ls turns off -l. I think >>> the Solaris ls is broken. >> >> This is perfectly POSIX-compliant behavior. See >> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/utilities/ls.html >> >> -f [XSI] Force each argument to be interpreted as a directory and list the >> name found in each slot. This option shall turn off -l, -t, -s, and -r, and >> shall turn on -a; the order is the order in which entries appear in the directory. > The newest POSIX says "may turn off" -l: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/ls.html > And even if I set POSIXLY_CORRECT GNU/Linux ls doesn't turn off -l. > > $ ls --version > ls (GNU coreutils) 8.13 > > I will probably rewrite my test (sigh). > > In the meantime, comments? FreeBSD and GNU ls are in sync and don't turn off -l with -f solaris is compliant but divergent here. I don't see a need for -f to ignore any -l, hence I'm closing this issue for now. thanks, Pádraig. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 07 15:02:12 2013 Received: (at 15828) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2013 20:02:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39856 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VeVmN-0007ek-7l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 15:02:11 -0500 Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:58122) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VeVmL-0007eU-0p for 15828@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 15:02:09 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20333A60001; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 12:02:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IuC4MHHO3+C8; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 12:02:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A5DEE39E8105; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 12:02:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <527BF1BA.1020903@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 12:02:02 -0800 From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E1draig_Brady?= , Aharon Robbins Subject: Re: bug#15828: behavior of ls -f References: <201311071854.rA7IsWFn008110@skeeve.com> <527BF0A8.8090006@draigBrady.com> In-Reply-To: <527BF0A8.8090006@draigBrady.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15828 Cc: 15828@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) On 11/07/2013 11:57 AM, Pádraig Brady wrote: > I don't see a need for -f to ignore any -l One could argue that -f should disable -l if _POSIX2_VERSION is 200112 or earlier, I'm not sure it's worth the hassle to implement that, though. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 07 16:35:04 2013 Received: (at 15828) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2013 21:35:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40026 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VeXEG-0002dE-9Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 16:35:04 -0500 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.186]:58438) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VeXED-0002cb-Uw for 15828@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 16:35:03 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.11] (p5499C6C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.153.198.195]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LuWn6-1VnZiY2bM8-00zrXZ; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 22:34:54 +0100 Message-ID: <527C077D.6070308@bernhard-voelker.de> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 22:34:53 +0100 From: Bernhard Voelker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130329 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aharon Robbins Subject: Re: bug#15828: behavior of ls -f References: <201311071854.rA7IsWFn008110@skeeve.com> In-Reply-To: <201311071854.rA7IsWFn008110@skeeve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:yAFNKp5iy3kDjkBmP3mKKCV3GDOLroG65UUYpqI2wwi W3/EKKKh5MVHu3xdaMh0lPpOB5vohfDQeOJ40AbMSXSVzeMTL0 XwRc7Nqm5NrR7l2GLwvqnLLSqAX8TNk3I2Bs8Eifc37jNSzuhC oxR7tmAcUAFJan8fe4wFB+w/CNk6UeiI8F39cgvm1CRX/4YTVw UG9+Ui0YyDc6HrlOJg4xhIIQfRwuOLP7Zibm3wW9hhE7qR4IOA U17SAzAm6oW4dhsdhU/pCxcXuqlOf697ja1A7LdlgHIF4m5N9x DUKKRzEl8DpJmeSFYov7OuHUpboNhHRKHao/M/0NnVDpDQTr2r wtMyZ11vf22VFQQ4nIT72QP+U/jTeWVN2FpTyo3V1 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15828 Cc: 15828@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 11/07/2013 07:54 PM, Aharon Robbins wrote: > And even if I set POSIXLY_CORRECT GNU/Linux ls doesn't turn off -l. Maybe I've misread the whole thread, but GNU coreutils ls(1) turns off -l when the -f option follows: $ src/ls -lf AUTHORS NEWS AUTHORS NEWS while -l wins after -f: $ src/ls -fl AUTHORS NEWS -rw-r--r-- 1 berny users 3669 Feb 10 2013 AUTHORS -rw-r--r-- 1 berny users 167110 Nov 5 08:52 NEWS I don't see an issue there. Have a nice day, Berny From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 07 19:06:42 2013 Received: (at 15828) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2013 00:06:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40207 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VeZaz-0006DC-Mv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 19:06:42 -0500 Received: from mail5.vodafone.ie ([213.233.128.176]:37017) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VeZaw-0006Cv-7d for 15828@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 19:06:39 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApQBACIqfFJdawop/2dsb2JhbAANTYM/vxlKgT6DGQEBAQQyAUYQCw0BCgkWDwkDAgECAUUGDQEHAQEWh2wIqWmTTI9ZB4QwA5QshQ+FNY5M Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.79]) ([93.107.10.41]) by mail3.vodafone.ie with ESMTP; 08 Nov 2013 00:06:31 +0000 Message-ID: <527C2B07.5010902@draigBrady.com> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 00:06:31 +0000 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E1draig_Brady?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130110 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernhard Voelker Subject: Re: bug#15828: behavior of ls -f References: <201311071854.rA7IsWFn008110@skeeve.com> <527C077D.6070308@bernhard-voelker.de> In-Reply-To: <527C077D.6070308@bernhard-voelker.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15828 Cc: Aharon Robbins , 15828@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On 11/07/2013 09:34 PM, Bernhard Voelker wrote: > On 11/07/2013 07:54 PM, Aharon Robbins wrote: >> And even if I set POSIXLY_CORRECT GNU/Linux ls doesn't turn off -l. > > Maybe I've misread the whole thread, but GNU coreutils ls(1) turns > off -l when the -f option follows: > > $ src/ls -lf AUTHORS NEWS > AUTHORS NEWS > > while -l wins after -f: > > $ src/ls -fl AUTHORS NEWS > -rw-r--r-- 1 berny users 3669 Feb 10 2013 AUTHORS > -rw-r--r-- 1 berny users 167110 Nov 5 08:52 NEWS > > I don't see an issue there. Apart from inconsistency I suppose. You're right that option order matters with GNU ls currently. It does not matter on FreeBSD at least, as there, -f does not turn off -l no matter which order they occur. Comparing some other options that POSIX is more concrete about in combination with -f, consider -S. POSIX says that: "When -f is specified, any occurrences of the -r, -S, and -t options shall be ignored" Now GNU ls does put order significance on the -S option which you can see by running `/bin/ls -flS`, and that does seem to contravene POSIX. But option order precedence issue is more general really. Guideline 11 in http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap12.html states that order shouldn't matter, but we've backwards compat to worry about. Also having later options override earlier ones does allow one to for example alias a default set of ls options, which one can later change as needed. thanks, Pádraig. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 08 01:21:36 2013 Received: (at 15828) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2013 06:21:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40595 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VefRn-0006lx-Lx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 01:21:35 -0500 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.10]:50505) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VefRk-0006li-PA for 15828@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 01:21:33 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.11] (p5499C6C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.153.198.195]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrbap1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lg6qx-1VzDDR04dv-00p19Y; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 07:21:26 +0100 Message-ID: <527C82E5.8020702@bernhard-voelker.de> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 07:21:25 +0100 From: Bernhard Voelker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130329 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E1draig_Brady?= Subject: Re: bug#15828: behavior of ls -f References: <201311071854.rA7IsWFn008110@skeeve.com> <527C077D.6070308@bernhard-voelker.de> <527C2B07.5010902@draigBrady.com> In-Reply-To: <527C2B07.5010902@draigBrady.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:cVOFYM6D4YSmIbbB1r4dlMK9Xl2BuTKGhhDL2DBxuvN wJ+iWagBTfEa+Af6rBlS6xB1a0U5xAEM1cb548dyM0RY9NCv3u 9FMljWqyiaIO/uz8ij8b73R2/Zt/akk/21LOGZSZsohJoTTiKJ JJAGGLvLVx/IUOpUjb5D/td2HtR0GVgik6+mYL6rFh2R+qwnhb FtgYvrcDVxeFlsGbgyaLjHuRub/NzaewSFUhdVi0dzDc7n0n9Y uEedOJAxws11HARXPfUT3vLy+Q8sCXTtM4vLokIeOW8eroKnrG qmINaqIhnzVRn15T2ntdAsDY2d3LOa7Bp1hp6SJNFCg1WFXL8d GTQGSnpsvx6PCuHSUYgz7RX1tdzb9YSb9ZoVnhCdh X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15828 Cc: Aharon Robbins , 15828@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 11/08/2013 01:06 AM, Pádraig Brady wrote: > On 11/07/2013 09:34 PM, Bernhard Voelker wrote: >> I don't see an issue there. > > Apart from inconsistency I suppose. > > You're right that option order matters with GNU ls currently. > It does not matter on FreeBSD at least, as there, -f does not > turn off -l no matter which order they occur. > > Comparing some other options that POSIX is more concrete about > in combination with -f, consider -S. POSIX says that: > "When -f is specified, any occurrences of the -r, -S, and -t options shall be ignored" > Now GNU ls does put order significance on the -S option which you can > see by running `/bin/ls -flS`, and that does seem to contravene POSIX. > > But option order precedence issue is more general really. > Guideline 11 in http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap12.html > states that order shouldn't matter, but we've backwards compat to > worry about. Also having later options override earlier ones > does allow one to for example alias a default set of ls options, > which one can later change as needed. Thanks for the clarification. It was a bit hard to understand without a live BSD system or the actual commands including the output. Thanks & have a nice day, Berny From unknown Wed Sep 10 19:49:14 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator