GNU bug report logs - #15427
24.3.50; `customize-face' in Customize, show `Background' attribute using background

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.3.50; `customize-face' in Customize, show `Background' attribute
 using background
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 10:04:31 -0700 (PDT)

emacs -Q
M-x customize-face lazy-highlight

Attribute `Background' has its own `sample', which shows the color.
But it shows the color as a foreground (text).  Show it as the
background, instead.

This is independent of the overall `sample' for the face as a whole.
It's just more helpful to show the background color choice as a
background.



In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32)
 of 2013-08-31 on ODIEONE
Bzr revision: 114088 rgm <at> gnu.org-20130901021232-sazo0qla2qgcko95
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=/c/Devel/emacs/binary --enable-checking=yes,glyphs
 'CFLAGS=-O0 -g3' LDFLAGS=-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib
 CPPFLAGS=-Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'

Message #8 received at 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#15427: 24.3.50; `customize-face' in Customize, show
 `Background' attribute using background
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:36:13 -0700

Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> emacs -Q
> M-x customize-face lazy-highlight
>
> Attribute `Background' has its own `sample', which shows the color.
> But it shows the color as a foreground (text).  Show it as the
> background, instead.
>
> This is independent of the overall `sample' for the face as a whole.
> It's just more helpful to show the background color choice as a
> background.

There's a whole bunch of things that can have a colour when customising
a face -- like stipple background/foreground, overline, etc.  I don't
know whether it makes sense to special-case just the (main) background
colour...  but perhaps that does make sense, because it's a pretty
common thing to customise.  And showing the colour as a background
colour would give a more correct impressions.

But might be confusing if that one thing behaved differently than the
rest.

Anybody have an opinion here?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #11 received at 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#15427: 24.3.50; `customize-face' in Customize, show
 `Background' attribute using background
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 21:44:44 -0700 (PDT)

> > emacs -Q
> > M-x customize-face lazy-highlight
> >
> > Attribute `Background' has its own `sample', which shows the color.
> > But it shows the color as a foreground (text).  Show it as the
> > background, instead.
> >
> > This is independent of the overall `sample' for the face as a whole.
> > It's just more helpful to show the background color choice as a
> > background.
> 
> There's a whole bunch of things that can have a colour when customising
> a face -- like stipple background/foreground, overline, etc.  I don't
> know whether it makes sense to special-case just the (main) background
> colour...  but perhaps that does make sense, because it's a pretty
> common thing to customise.  And showing the colour as a background
> colour would give a more correct impressions.
> 
> But might be confusing if that one thing behaved differently than the
> rest.
> 
> Anybody have an opinion here?

It's _not_ about one thing behaving differently.

We show an overline, underline, foreground, etc.
attribute using the foreground, because they are,
well, in the foreground.

Attribute background is not.  Attribute background
should, well, show the color sample as background,
not as foreground.  (I would think that this is
obviously TRT to do.)

Message #14 received at 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#15427: 24.3.50;
 `customize-face' in Customize, show `Background' attribute using
 background
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 17:28:16 +0300

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:36:13 -0700
> Cc: 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Anybody have an opinion here?

My opinion is that there's nothing wrong with showing the color as
foreground.

Message #17 received at 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#15427: 24.3.50; `customize-face' in Customize, show
 `Background' attribute using background
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 21:47:44 +0300

>> emacs -Q
>> M-x customize-face lazy-highlight
>>
>> Attribute `Background' has its own `sample', which shows the color.
>> But it shows the color as a foreground (text).  Show it as the
>> background, instead.
>>
>> This is independent of the overall `sample' for the face as a whole.
>> It's just more helpful to show the background color choice as a
>> background.
>
> There's a whole bunch of things that can have a colour when customising
> a face -- like stipple background/foreground, overline, etc.  I don't
> know whether it makes sense to special-case just the (main) background
> colour...  but perhaps that does make sense, because it's a pretty
> common thing to customise.  And showing the colour as a background
> colour would give a more correct impressions.

Using background colors is more helpful for users.  Please see also
bug#33799 (set-foreground-color completion shows background colors).

Message #20 received at 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#15427: 24.3.50; `customize-face' in Customize, show
 `Background' attribute using background
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 16:37:50 -0700

Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> writes:

> Using background colors is more helpful for users. 

I tried having a peek at the code to see whether this would be an easy
thing to fix, and it applies the colour here:

(defun widget-color-sample-face-get (widget)
  (let* ((value (condition-case nil
		    (widget-value widget)
		  (error (widget-get widget :value)))))
    (if (color-defined-p value)
	(list (cons 'foreground-color value))
      'default)))

But, as usual when dealing with widgets, I had to give up, because I can
never follow the calling logic (everything seems to happen somewhere
else), and I don't know how to inspect the widgets, either.

If somebody else wants to take a whack at it, be my guest.  It's
probably trivial if you know how widgets work.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #23 received at 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: 15427 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#15427: 24.3.50; `customize-face' in Customize, show
 `Background' attribute using background
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 17:06:15 -0700 (PDT)

FWIW, I agree about the widget and custom code.
And it's doc is not super helpful.

(defun widget-color-sample-face-get (widget)
  (let* ((value (condition-case nil
		    (widget-value widget)
		  (error (widget-get widget :value)))))
    (if (color-defined-p value)
	(list (cons 'background-color value))
      'default)))

But I think, as said in the enhancement
request, that it's good to show the
effect of the color BOTH as a foreground
and as a background.

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