GNU bug report logs - #15343
24.3.50; Document window point better in Emacs manual

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.3.50; Document window point better in Emacs manual
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:00:25 -0700 (PDT)

The concept of point is fundamental to Emacs, and it is introduced in
(emacs) `Point'.  However, users sometimes get confused because multiple
windows for the same buffer have different notions of point: the window
point.  This concept is hardly presented in the Emacs manual, AFAICT.
The most that is said is this, which is easily missed in (emacs)
`Point':

 Furthermore, if a buffer is displayed in multiple windows, each of
 those windows has its own value of point.

Great, but what are the consequences of that?  In particular, what are
some gotchas that might confuse users?

I don't have a great suggestion of what the improvement might be, but I
think something more is needed to dispel or prevent this confusion.
Perhaps an example, to illustrate the notion and the possible confusion.

This problem report comes to mind in this regard.  Dunno whether the
problem reported here is really due to confusion about `window-point',
but I can see such a problem possibly coming from such confusion.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18734850/point-moves-when-switching-buffers-in-emacs-aquamacs/18744622#18744622



In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32)
 of 2013-08-31 on ODIEONE
Bzr revision: 114088 rgm <at> gnu.org-20130901021232-sazo0qla2qgcko95
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=/c/Devel/emacs/binary --enable-checking=yes,glyphs
 'CFLAGS=-O0 -g3' LDFLAGS=-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib
 CPPFLAGS=-Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'

Message #8 received at 15343 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jambunathan K <kjambunathan <at> gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 15343 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#15343: 24.3.50; Document window point better in Emacs manual
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:39:19 +0530

>  Furthermore, if a buffer is displayed in multiple windows, each of
>  those windows has its own value of point.

For the sake of record,

    http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=14486

I have "permitted" the bug to be closed because I felt that would be the
most expedient thing to do.

I do think that hitting a developer with clue-bat would help.  (Even if
hitting him, leaves him as clue-less and help-less as before)

----------------------------------------------------------------

I believe most people start with

    * Emacs Lisp Intro: (eintr).   

The tutorial of that nature has no reasons to emphasize that there are
multiple points (so to speak).  Now once people become reasonably
proficient, they continue to harbour a sub-conscious model that there is
only one point.  

I think simple hyperlinking between the nodes will help bring out the
nuance.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Message #11 received at 15343 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 15343 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#15343: 24.3.50; Document window point better in Emacs manual
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 20:29:37 -0800

Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> The concept of point is fundamental to Emacs, and it is introduced in
> (emacs) `Point'.  However, users sometimes get confused because multiple
> windows for the same buffer have different notions of point: the window
> point.  This concept is hardly presented in the Emacs manual, AFAICT.
> The most that is said is this, which is easily missed in (emacs)
> `Point':
>
>  Furthermore, if a buffer is displayed in multiple windows, each of
>  those windows has its own value of point.
>
> Great, but what are the consequences of that?  In particular, what are
> some gotchas that might confuse users?

Uhm...  I think that it's pretty clear.  Closing.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

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