From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 13:34:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.137873360215442 (code B ref -1); Mon, 09 Sep 2013 13:34:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Sep 2013 13:33:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50189 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1ah-00040x-TE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:33:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54996) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1aa-00040d-EM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:33:16 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1aM-0001ty-PS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:33:07 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:48735) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1aM-0001tt-M5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:32:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56622) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1aE-00058H-9Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:32:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1a5-0001jC-SO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:32:50 -0400 Received: from mail-pd0-x22f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22f]:55747) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1a5-0001iG-KY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:32:41 -0400 Received: by mail-pd0-f175.google.com with SMTP id q10so6158872pdj.6 for ; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 06:32:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-type; bh=JihACDubu7DDs9uqORNVlAAHeLUKlEH/9RatUYTUDow=; b=Tge7hi8Q5ME3LXlG5SpGLy38FYjAq4CaOqVZ0aCFMgkTwhm4iXvY3vQ1hrlrielOcD Ubfi2m9z9s/914c4e7tbR5Au44F/D6Mc8v0DrQXy2zvY03DeAuIaMijgNUuEqbQDRUXr +ql5gv2FC1PwMyliO4+lXSi/v7+tWvNguGkUGxA2BpKEfeAcF55ugX6bzKMz9C7RAN0T GJbEjPdwjS3i62bHniUvs6Nib59eWvW6tcwNd2Nokw74/QTODhM1ROi01ABN6lRWoLDx DBDktmYQ6wcB/kUI0YTq/Qf/KzudS0X9pFs5kM2RaoqnEgh97hEX5rAcf6ct9vgryE+d pDWw== X-Received: by 10.67.3.103 with SMTP id bv7mr19944555pad.15.1378733560514; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 06:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porunai ([115.244.224.237]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nv6sm16338854pbc.6.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Sep 2013 06:32:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:04:59 +0530 Message-ID: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) The info doc (see below) makes no mention of intervals/text properties. It should mention what intervals.c actually does. ,---- From intervals.c | /* We run point-left and point-entered hooks here, if the | two intervals are not equivalent. These hooks take | (old_point, new_point) as arguments. */ `---- ,---- (info "(elisp) Special Properties") | `point-entered' | `point-left' | The special properties `point-entered' and `point-left' record | hook functions that report motion of point. Each time point | moves, Emacs compares these two property values: | | * the `point-left' property of the character after the old | location, and | | * the `point-entered' property of the character after the new | location. | | If these two values differ, each of them is called (if not `nil') | with two arguments: the old value of point, and the new one. `---- From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13787446404821 (code B ref 15312); Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:38:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Sep 2013 16:37:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50733 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ4Sl-0001Fg-QR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 12:37:20 -0400 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:45081) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ4Si-0001FI-8j for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 12:37:17 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MSV000009Z90C00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:37:09 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MSV00N5IA5W3K40@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:37:09 +0300 (IDT) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:37:08 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Jambunathan K > Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:04:59 +0530 > > > The info doc (see below) makes no mention of intervals/text properties. > It should mention what intervals.c actually does. What exactly does it not mention now, and under which circumstances will a Lisp programmer see that? From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 03:32:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13787839065078 (code B ref 15312); Tue, 10 Sep 2013 03:32:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Sep 2013 03:31:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51218 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJEg6-0001Jq-6z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 23:31:46 -0400 Received: from mail-pb0-f52.google.com ([209.85.160.52]:42154) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJEg3-0001Jb-Sn for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 23:31:44 -0400 Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id wz12so6926882pbc.25 for <15312@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:31:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=lFF/7+Gv9mbXBYoX+yeA9vAksPrlxnKcuKWDAVZErb0=; b=Drep2ofReGcv6JGI74gYcRKEtpIw4nbuOJtvHIUejDqmiEqng7ZS9bvJ3C3Gi7XAC/ oD3LCqf1e4hDxDkJxd5b+dOBXV6ckOChKqW4bCvnywfj9RrhbWc1HcSMV6JmcIwrWoJ3 x2AiFszflQ6VlVzIeZy0BLnWHrW6VNzmKwDaY8GSMjmbs0GoSC9nGSWLYhhZsVh4403s d0MKbFYxXUBex1Mbe+icxP3794lEr0F92G+RAlkRo5cJa/C/PxUMHPeCAsEq8rEaMA58 UuXyN4perH+2Hgs2LfazCFlZzXNYFFTwg5lidgI0BTqm6tBzQFxPX83kaAINeHyrfzMz A1GQ== X-Received: by 10.66.218.198 with SMTP id pi6mr23926608pac.107.1378783898029; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porunai ([115.242.233.53]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id sz3sm19745817pbc.5.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:31:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:03:56 +0530 In-Reply-To: <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:37:08 +0300") Message-ID: <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Jambunathan K >> Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:04:59 +0530 >> >> >> The info doc (see below) makes no mention of intervals/text properties. >> It should mention what intervals.c actually does. > > What exactly does it not mention now, About text properties. They need to be different. > and under which circumstances will a Lisp programmer see that? Does this question mean when will point-entered and point-left hook be used (or used at all)? I suggest that you look at table.el, gomoku.el, landmark.el et.al. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Copy the snippet below to *scratch* buffer and eval them. (I assume that your *scratch* buffer is in emacs-lisp-mode and is colorful) Keep C-f-ing and C-b-ing and see what happens. You will see that entered and left get triggered when you move from a text that has one face to another, NOT when they have the same faces. (defun --point-entered (&rest args) (message "entered: %s" args)) (defun --point-left (&rest args) (message "left: %s" args)) (add-text-properties (point-min) (point-max) '(point-left --point-left point-entered --point-entered)) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Doc (makes) an (incomplete and) incorrect claim that the triggering of hook depends SOLELY on the value of point-left and point-entered properties. It is NOT so. The values of TEXT PROPERTIES should be DIFFERENT at the transition point. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 03:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13787842725640 (code B ref 15312); Tue, 10 Sep 2013 03:38:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Sep 2013 03:37:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51227 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJEm0-0001Su-31 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 23:37:52 -0400 Received: from mail-pd0-f179.google.com ([209.85.192.179]:55026) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJEly-0001Se-Bv for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 23:37:50 -0400 Received: by mail-pd0-f179.google.com with SMTP id v10so7037707pde.24 for <15312@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:37:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=2fAAcyo+CBPyqBAldxb2F0g5qIqPcph1zl0DOV7gD5c=; b=sWMzEu8sJL3nk4DXPnVErKl6CXy9wSVbgYgtDDAws8MYTY/ugMQgukBjF1Cx10XGGp UFWJ7mputoKrukCQo72T8Jwd0++PFqtHZSOCGIr9/MAEaZ1b7WIXNoZeAKwhlyNDodW+ If48nFHvOtRpdIz4RJ8E3fxGOIYO/xHGTjjBxFoPaEuidks2+L5NTJluUfeAW9KcHhog dMPEjoakV4Hgx8Bf92BuGklzt7A4d5zwqix3XTB7qY+hfPa6Y/o1flD5ZbVSeL9S882v h++aWXGDbIQ8iH/euGqAZFKFCz99TmpOr8qRTJosf2+siKzLKi8J6EPeUZX/lD9nR6qN BQyA== X-Received: by 10.67.30.164 with SMTP id kf4mr23714485pad.13.1378784264540; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porunai ([115.242.233.53]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id mr3sm19749046pbb.27.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:37:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:10:03 +0530 In-Reply-To: <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:03:56 +0530") Message-ID: <874n9t73ak.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Jambunathan K writes: > About text properties. I was thinking where the confusion was coming from... For emphasis and your clarity It is "text properties" taken as a WHOLE. Comments in intervals.c terms it as "intervals being equivalent" From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:19:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137882632213453 (code B ref 15312); Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:19:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Sep 2013 15:18:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52676 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJPiD-0003Uu-Dk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:18:41 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:45587) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJPi9-0003Ue-LI for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:18:38 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MSX004000SZYS00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 18:18:31 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MSX0046C16UMVB0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 18:18:31 +0300 (IDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 18:18:32 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Jambunathan K > Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:03:56 +0530 > > Copy the snippet below to *scratch* buffer and eval them. (I assume > that your *scratch* buffer is in emacs-lisp-mode and is colorful) > > Keep C-f-ing and C-b-ing and see what happens. > > You will see that entered and left get triggered when you move from a > text that has one face to another, NOT when they have the same faces. > > (defun --point-entered (&rest args) > (message "entered: %s" args)) > > (defun --point-left (&rest args) > (message "left: %s" args)) > > (add-text-properties (point-min) (point-max) > '(point-left --point-left > point-entered --point-entered)) It is not clear to me where did you expect the hooks to be called, based on the documentation. Was it for every character? only at point-min and point-max? something else? And in any case, why do you assume this is a documentation bug, as opposed to a bug in the implementation? From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13788932289085 (code B ref 15312); Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:54:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2013 09:53:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54802 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJh7L-0002MS-Ne for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 05:53:48 -0400 Received: from mail-pd0-f182.google.com ([209.85.192.182]:46789) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJh7I-0002MC-QL for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 05:53:45 -0400 Received: by mail-pd0-f182.google.com with SMTP id r10so9002759pdi.27 for <15312@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:53:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=da9HEtSgEdOb6jwxxdPh2Ol0Qth7AGnKYapzieaZANQ=; b=opvjGLoz9uWoIDvLcG2iSjkLgry57cPsk5wKcUKGWImGdsg1nHHs+WrLx0fBgXHtUA 3Lgjazu+JHvHJs1aEelFlgp52vfkKQolkdetbuOXra5wmlLBp78Jm5SnuoMS7Sby5S1W dYrM5EVuxrRLoDRJZ65SwM6N/cTqJPm6UgOhGXBeegAPorKpUozkka4Lwqdh4H6Sj5ha L3EV8pAPWbvpZD9OukY8OBmf6eT2AY+Oo+AOkBZEldtSSkBpZWmrPJ/FZQ52mvopUYAm H3ehUBdc+WcwOwfrgOcPEYTYZjLsAuRG8o+RjE+w6/XzvQt3uTlAGMoBasfRcM3/MNO2 X4sA== X-Received: by 10.68.212.106 with SMTP id nj10mr813682pbc.74.1378893218519; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porunai ([115.244.229.172]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id k4sm23997977pbd.11.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:53:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 15:25:56 +0530 In-Reply-To: <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 18:18:32 +0300") Message-ID: <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) >> (defun --point-entered (&rest args) >> (message "entered: %s" args)) >> >> (defun --point-left (&rest args) >> (message "left: %s" args)) >> >> (add-text-properties (point-min) (point-max) >> '(point-left --point-left >> point-entered --point-entered)) > > It is not clear to me where did you expect the hooks to be called, > based on the documentation. > Was it for every character? Based on documentation. Yes, for every char. > only at point-min and point-max? No. > And in any case, why do you assume this is a documentation bug I am not ASSUMING that it is a doc bug. It IS a doc bug. The doc IS obviously not matching the implementation. > as opposed to a bug in the implementation? Well, if you want to promote this report to a bug in implementation, I have no reservations. But the onus is in on YOU to argue on what counts it can be deeemed as a bug in implementation. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13789069488221 (code B ref 15312); Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:43:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2013 13:42:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55263 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJkgd-00028V-JR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:42:27 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:48101) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJkgZ-000284-As for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:42:24 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MSY00K00R68IY00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 16:42:02 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MSY00JX8RE1TXE0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 16:42:02 +0300 (IDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 16:42:06 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Jambunathan K > Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 15:25:56 +0530 > > > And in any case, why do you assume this is a documentation bug > > I am not ASSUMING that it is a doc bug. It IS a doc bug. The doc IS > obviously not matching the implementation. When 2 things don't match, one or the other might need to be fixed, and additional arguments are generally needed to decide which one. > the onus is in on YOU to argue on what counts it can be deeemed as a > bug in implementation. Very simple: it doesn't make any sense to me to call the hooks when the value of each property does not change as point moves. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 05:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13790496185511 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 05:21:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 05:20:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60452 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKLnk-0001Qn-V2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 01:20:17 -0400 Received: from mail-pa0-f51.google.com ([209.85.220.51]:50213) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKLng-0001QX-H6 for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 01:20:13 -0400 Received: by mail-pa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id lf1so2075284pab.10 for <15312@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 22:20:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=vq/5IJQ4YIYOEXsaxpfcinI5rEo5xwXHMy6uwZXxsDE=; b=oU5/mfFyEopaHdEZztA1V4rZDyn7teZHmg9SECh0s4gNj7jqBmWe+XG/N5Hvn3G8uN t8s41SGaXrKAp46u08yF058go524WCUNCs5lHTd5ZFFchjE9KwcOHvUWvtTs6pBZ0a2z WMBBizAXlvvLONqp0NrwVHeNGWkQneJzCrsW1SzpmhZFuFR0YxKYDC8Ev2eoIAeY2Fro BnAPbiD7zfII6uoXXM3OqmmPdC94RIRAgY1hyPPk/PUYNKcqDTj0JvqC0imSfETfG3ng hMPjMzG+/TcHcmc7GKNzqN4vsuH1jPWWLJOcPj3ozUNwFGYWSfBiqapzimaWmmQLHQyL +ToA== X-Received: by 10.68.212.106 with SMTP id nj10mr11475155pbc.74.1379049606601; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 22:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porunai ([115.242.146.7]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qp10sm15241487pab.13.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Sep 2013 22:20:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:52:25 +0530 In-Reply-To: <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 11 Sep 2013 16:42:06 +0300") Message-ID: <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Eli > Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect You asked for a wall-of-text. Here you go. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Imagery: If a hotel is interested in taking visitors why should it even care how it is painted or that it be painted differently from the neighbouring hotels? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Unask the question: Consider the following scenario? 1. The WHOLE buffer has the SAME point-visited property. 2. The whole buffer has NO OTHER text properties applied to it. Under the above conditions, can the user use the point-visited property achieve a sensible behaviour. The answer is an emphatic YES. Read on. ---------------------------------------------------------------- On relevance and expedience: You are making a WRONG ASSUMPTION that text properties MUST flip-flop. The flip-flopping of text properties is a mere chunking trick to rate-limit point visited calls. It is a requirement IMPOSED FROM OUTSIDE (and which can usually be met in practice) but is not GERMANE to the problem at hand. ---------------------------------------------------------------- What (usually) are text properties, in this context? In this context, the text properties act as a pre-computed syntactic context. The requirement that properties flip-flop is but a way of saying that a stretch of text be syntactically different from the surrounding text. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Can uniqueness be expressed in other ways, apart from text properties? Yes. With parsers, it is possible to infer a context JUST-IN-TIME. Should parsers be expected to decorated text? Not necessary. There could be reasons why parsers don't decorate text. One reason could be that it is young. One example, is the Org parser. (Font-locking and the ppss stuff is just a poor man's parser) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Stop the bullshit. Give an example? See http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2013-09/msg00425.html (add-hook 'org-mode-hook (lambda nil (setq-local default-text-properties '(point-entered org-link-entered-maybe)))) (defun org-link-entered-maybe (op np) (when (derived-mode-p 'org-mode) ;; (message "In org-link-entered-maybe") (let* ((inhibit-point-motion-hooks t) (ctx (org-element-context))) (when (eq 'link (org-element-type ctx)) (tooltip-show (org-element-property :raw-link ctx) (not 'use-echo-area)))))) In the above example, the context - that the character is part of a link - is computed JIT to pop open a tooltip that shows the underlying URL. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Can text properties express rich context with less OVERHEADS? Text properties (typically) break the text in to pieces. They can express UNIQUENESS. Can they express the much richer, UNIQUENESS and CONTAINMENT - I am an Org link, within the second item, of the third level list within 4 th level heading - in a fully-synced manner. I think the answer is NO. Since Text Properties are pre-computed text, it becomes messy to keep them in SYNC with an ever-changing text. Expressed simply, JIT eliminates the caches and problems associated with it. ---------------------------------------------------------------- In what ways can a character be special? A character can be special for the following reasons 1. Syntactic: It's position in the buffer text - A hyperlink, variable name etc. 2. Spatial: A character that belongs to the margins. i.e., to the left of `left-margin'. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Text properties cannot express spatial uniqueness Can text properties be used for expressing spatial uniqueness? Good luck with it. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Spatial uniqueness and text properties. I am noting this only because this was the primary motivation to explore point-visited properties in first place. How to edit a left-marginned text and make sure that point never rests on the margin area. Think of a diary or a todo item. They are a MIX of indented and un-indented text. Left-marginned text, no problem? (setq left-margin 16) (setq indent-line-function 'indent-to-left-margin) I want C-p and C-n to actively seek indented text. No problem. C-x C-n I want C-a not to actively rest within on text area and NEVER stray in to the margins. I am at a total loss here. How will I do it? 1. Play with tangibility of `\n +'. I need to mess with `indent-line-function'. I don't want to keep decorating and un-decorating a character for spatial reasons. 2. Let me look at other possiblities. Ha! point-entered and point-left looks interesting. ;; Within point-entered property. (if ( < (current-column) left-margin) (goto-char left-margin)) This is very wonderful, I don't even have to set the goal column. 3. Hmm! Doesn't work. Why? Because document sucks? ---------------------------------------------------------------- From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137905282610907 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 06:13:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60558 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKMdV-0002pp-6t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 02:13:45 -0400 Received: from mail-pa0-f47.google.com ([209.85.220.47]:63004) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKMdT-0002pd-Eb for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 02:13:43 -0400 Received: by mail-pa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id kl13so2096873pab.20 for <15312@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:13:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=aZ31xZJekTuiy0C8Dp7JNUgL+CA/EAC4LSkOdg9LiTw=; b=hiY26i7W6gtcokU6qCWJCh7Sso4SEOtUwAe9ZXEvN/hqe/CkevTxhWxLedHi+DlFjH +xXy/Wg7qwY5g7DrbzH0i4If+qVGJ0L5T0wEPZ8WOHp8OCQq2O3MHbR+H3i+aCVH+z0t GhGh7FANcgRmUtM0HEbnMtkXASiM03F+ahGcpWwzrohpTyUn4EWwa7xXFIqwgo+1dLC8 dvqO7qqX7WLDqJ0PvI8sZ7tQgp6uV1knmAdGrJAabNsDpe1M8hvjtDFtCYEqC9VRcKAX AFMbYkawpCg6kHrdXralubSKcWDMZ95Qokfgb9mJDvOOtEiyMIhSXKaGt3jD36jyJQ5f hoFA== X-Received: by 10.68.196.234 with SMTP id ip10mr11710828pbc.18.1379052817278; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porunai ([115.242.146.7]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ta10sm15594706pab.5.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:13:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:45:57 +0530 In-Reply-To: <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:52:25 +0530") Message-ID: <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Jambunathan K writes: > You asked for a wall-of-text. Here you go. >From a philosphical standpoint, the Info manual makes the following observation. ,---- (info "(elisp) Not Intervals") | "What are the properties of this character?" So we have decided these | are the only questions that make sense; we have not implemented asking | questions about where intervals start or end. `---- I think this is relevant to the discussion at hand. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137905937125677 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:03:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 08:02:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60699 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKOL4-0006g4-4p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 04:02:50 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:38037) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKOL0-0006fp-Rz for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 04:02:48 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MT200I000W3H800@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:02:40 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MT200INT10C9O80@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:02:36 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:02:24 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <837geli1yn.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Jambunathan K > Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:45:57 +0530 > > Jambunathan K writes: > > > You asked for a wall-of-text. Here you go. > > >From a philosphical standpoint, the Info manual makes the following > observation. > > ,---- (info "(elisp) Not Intervals") > | "What are the properties of this character?" So we have decided these > | are the only questions that make sense; we have not implemented asking > | questions about where intervals start or end. > `---- > > I think this is relevant to the discussion at hand. Sorry, I don't see how it is relevant. The issue at hand is not what are text properties and what they aren't in general. The issue is specifically how point-entered and point-left hooks should be called, and on what conditions. Your references to a comment in intervals.c is a methodological mistake, because (a) it takes an implementation peculiarity as a sign of something that should be present in the documentation, and (b) it side-tracks the discussion into the area of "intervals" and what they are, something that the Lisp level should be oblivious to. So I suggest to return to the Lisp level, where there are no intervals, only text properties that are present or absent at certain buffer positions. To make my point clear: it makes very little sense to me to invoke the motion hooks depending on whether some other text properties changed as well. Motion hooks should have no relation whatsoever to any other text property, such as face or whatever. So, to me, the code definitely has some bug, the question is which one and how to fix it. It is not easy to know how to fix it, because the documentation is ambiguous and can be interpreted in more than one way (of which you picked up one). We should agree on the interpretation before we decide how to fix the code and the doc. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137905945925859 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 08:04:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60707 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKOMU-0006iz-4I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 04:04:18 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:38373) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKOMS-0006im-0c for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 04:04:16 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MT200I00123I800@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:04:02 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MT200IAS12PC570@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:04:02 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:03:50 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <8361u5i1w9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Jambunathan K > Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:52:25 +0530 > > > Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect > > You asked for a wall-of-text. No, I didn't. Sorry, didn't read past this point. Maybe my other message hits the point; if not, please consider being more concise and on-topic next time. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13790679737682 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:27:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 10:26:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60916 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKQZo-0001zo-FZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:26:13 -0400 Received: from mail-pb0-f52.google.com ([209.85.160.52]:40080) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKQZk-0001zZ-KG for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:26:09 -0400 Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id wz12so1048507pbc.25 for <15312@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 03:26:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=OolaLVy+gRg8YEHr/yuCOpNzqA3mTB65XdoTEX2XKjE=; b=C+SwE5m56anFzJcwwJPnvrbGg7Gx4ktBOJsfyGba+PimbjG/ZwMCeiVgA76sDIALTw 98oZcjKUKmva8OBphfenfKDyoDX31hYCCTHGYeyZ7AWyroVj0WFkKt+rRF57C1gIvtdt Gp2C/a9XmG4HJeHow2pFffqoBU8LGSgUP4r7SmQVbK0E5PuaWJ17I447kHonHw7V1NKq yB961cb70aB7EMqiqT5CySb0K4qrberN+q75pEeYhqRUEyofUq+fTeYKjFd4AlQDWs3R JB+oBDwk/b6IOfsdf0pgTC7qTPXcs2icK+geYYeoTpQTR+E8+j1AXBzYKXIXGK29i8UC 6BLQ== X-Received: by 10.66.240.67 with SMTP id vy3mr14202734pac.141.1379067962600; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 03:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porunai ([115.242.244.30]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qp10sm17071563pab.13.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 03:26:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <837geli1yn.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:58:18 +0530 In-Reply-To: <837geli1yn.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:02:24 +0300") Message-ID: <87d2odqam5.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > To make my point clear: it makes very little sense to me to invoke the > motion hooks depending on whether some other text properties changed > as well. Motion hooks should have no relation whatsoever to any other > text property, such as face or whatever. We are talking about the same thing. > So, to me, the code definitely has some bug, the question is which one > and how to fix it. It is not easy to know how to fix it, because the > documentation is ambiguous and can be interpreted in more than one way > (of which you picked up one). We should agree on the interpretation > before we decide how to fix the code and the doc. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137907797827731 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:13:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 13:12:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32969 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKTBB-0007DC-Oq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:12:58 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:33297) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKTB9-0007D0-T7 for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:12:56 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IfAQVWIxALNBIUGA0kiCTBLZEKA5JakiCBXoMT X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IfAQVWIxALNBIUGA0kiCTBLZEKA5JakiCBXoMT X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="27621380" Received: from 184-175-16-104.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([184.175.16.104]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Sep 2013 09:09:17 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id EA0C262E33; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:12:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:12:49 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:45:57 +0530") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > ,---- (info "(elisp) Not Intervals") > | "What are the properties of this character?" So we have decided these > | are the only questions that make sense; we have not implemented asking > | questions about where intervals start or end. > `---- We should indeed amend the above: while text-properties indeed only apply to individual characters, and are not intervals (contrary to overlays), there are several places where we consider runs of consecutive characters that share the same property value (and more specifically, we use `eq' as the equality predicate in those cases). This is the case for example for `mouse-face' since we don't just want to highlight the character under the mouse. It's also the case for point-entered/left, otherwise "entering/leaving" is kind of meaningless (remember that point is never in/on a character, but always between 2 characters). It can be important to know how the boundaries of such regions is determined (i.e. by checking `eq'uality of property value of consecutive characters), since it is sometimes necessary to copy such a value in order to explicitly split such an "interval" (e.g. if two consecutive words need to use `mouse-face' with the same face, but where the two words should not be highlighted together). Other than the above 3 properties, I also know of `display', `font-lock-multiline', and `jit-lock-defer-multiline' behaving in this way. Any other? I think rather than "intervals", we could call those "runs". Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137907898529442 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 13:29:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33035 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKTRQ-0007em-J2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:29:44 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:41712) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKTRK-0007eR-KG for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:29:39 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MT200000FS1PN00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:29:32 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MT2000LCG58JK60@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:29:32 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:29:20 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:12:49 -0400 > > > ,---- (info "(elisp) Not Intervals") > > | "What are the properties of this character?" So we have decided these > > | are the only questions that make sense; we have not implemented asking > > | questions about where intervals start or end. > > `---- > > We should indeed amend the above: while text-properties indeed only > apply to individual characters, and are not intervals (contrary to > overlays), there are several places where we consider runs of > consecutive characters that share the same property value (and more > specifically, we use `eq' as the equality predicate in those cases). > > This is the case for example for `mouse-face' since we don't just want > to highlight the character under the mouse. > > It's also the case for point-entered/left, otherwise "entering/leaving" > is kind of meaningless (remember that point is never in/on a character, > but always between 2 characters). Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying about the original issue with point-entered/left. Are you saying that the code works correctly, or are you saying it has a bug? From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13790853219101 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 15:15:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33959 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKV5b-0002Ll-Pl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:15:20 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:38620) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKV5Z-0002Cn-8W for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:15:17 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOkeoFegxM X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOkeoFegxM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="27634612" Received: from 184-175-16-104.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([184.175.16.104]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Sep 2013 11:11:38 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id D66F262CD8; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:15:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:15:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:29:20 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying about the original issue > with point-entered/left. Are you saying that the code works > correctly, or are you saying it has a bug? That the code that uses the `point-entered/left' property (just like the code that uses the other mentioned properties like `display', `mouse-face', ...) considers runs of characters with the same property value as belonging together; which means that the text-property is used to specify a kind of interval. Clearly, this disagrees with: ,---- (info "(elisp) Not Intervals") | "What are the properties of this character?" So we have decided these | are the only questions that make sense; we have not implemented asking | questions about where intervals start or end. `---- And actually the above text is incorrect/incomplete in the sense that next-single-property-change clearly implements a functionality that lets you "ask questions about where intervals start or end". Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:00:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137908798816121 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:00:03 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 15:59:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34094 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKVmd-0004Bw-Jx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:59:47 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:36408) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKVma-0004Bd-V7 for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:59:46 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MT200100N2UZ500@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 18:59:37 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MT2001IRN3DQ2A0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 18:59:37 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 18:59:26 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83six8hfvl.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: kjambunathan@gmail.com, 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:15:10 -0400 > > > Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying about the original issue > > with point-entered/left. Are you saying that the code works > > correctly, or are you saying it has a bug? > > That the code that uses the `point-entered/left' property (just like > the code that uses the other mentioned properties like `display', > `mouse-face', ...) considers runs of characters with the same property > value as belonging together; which means that the text-property is used > to specify a kind of interval. Sorry, I'm still in the dark. Does the code presented in http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=15312#11 work correctly and as expected, or does it not? If the latter, what would you expect that code to do instead? > Clearly, this disagrees with: > > ,---- (info "(elisp) Not Intervals") > | "What are the properties of this character?" So we have decided these > | are the only questions that make sense; we have not implemented asking > | questions about where intervals start or end. > `---- > > And actually the above text is incorrect/incomplete in the sense that > next-single-property-change clearly implements a functionality that lets > you "ask questions about where intervals start or end". Actually, it doesn't disagree, if you keep in mind what RMS meant when he wrote that text (intervals can and do overlap, while runs of text properties cannot). But IMO that is a completely different issue. The original issue raised by this report was about point-entered/left hooks, and the code presented in the above URL illustrates the issue. I suggest that we solve that issue first. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:19:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137908908817942 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:19:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 16:18:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34127 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKW4N-0004fJ-IC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:18:07 -0400 Received: from mail-pa0-f53.google.com ([209.85.220.53]:64767) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKW4L-0004en-Kg for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:18:06 -0400 Received: by mail-pa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id lb1so2705930pab.26 for <15312@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:17:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=T2QWKYtrjYAUcr7dTNq0R5iMBDxjF6EerU1sfqsjYEo=; b=sCMZv9wtnYh8wIuF1fCDs8tFuMtmgEi8R+4Q5WTcB+nswOG6eIBcFMkVfhACl633jV jAHcExVnse59jFPeC+v+aOXq8YEIF4zFtscsuH3zPe3Jepf2RHVVwM1vf/yiPI48iCa9 BylJlJ4tSHdyReaB0e8L0yaQl/+wCBMSgsPoccaUfUeEZUrA/U4O8UQtyMB43BxvddOD mXteI8lMJ3PRTD5FyhOSeSYAN9vvnwKMCwQWzodhN716EqbXbZGVJ5mRDBK1f6Y4saWh 9qU/ATKU8SefqhIah/0QBPnNrHdiiuAYBFp51vXEyX6F37eL2Uw8W9kFrdNgKolpuwNo wVtg== X-Received: by 10.69.12.36 with SMTP id en4mr14351986pbd.54.1379089079687; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porunai ([101.63.153.120]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nj9sm12696199pbc.13.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:17:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 21:50:20 +0530 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:15:10 -0400") Message-ID: <87k3ikn16j.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Stefan Monnier writes: >> Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying about the original issue >> with point-entered/left. Are you saying that the code works >> correctly, or are you saying it has a bug? > > That the code that uses the `point-entered/left' property (just like > the code that uses the other mentioned properties like `display', > `mouse-face', ...) considers runs of characters with the same property > value as belonging together; which means that the text-property is used > to specify a kind of interval. (mapc (lambda (s) (insert (propertize s 'mouse-face font-lock-comment-face))) '("ab" "cd")) The intention of the programmer in the above case MAY have been to treat "ab" and "cd" differently. But the way Emacs deals with them, it considers "abcd" as a single stretch and they are highlighted together. (insert (propertize "ab" 'mouse-face font-lock-comment-face)) (insert (propertize "cd" 'mouse-face font-lock-function-name-face)) > Clearly, this disagrees with: > > ,---- (info "(elisp) Not Intervals") > | "What are the properties of this character?" So we have decided these > | are the only questions that make sense; we have not implemented asking > | questions about where intervals start or end. > `---- > > And actually the above text is incorrect/incomplete in the sense that > next-single-property-change clearly implements a functionality that lets > you "ask questions about where intervals start or end". I don't really don't treat documentation as bible, because I am not a Christian. Actually I am a pagan. My argument is that and has been this: 1. Documentation is incomplete. 2. IRL, two hotels belonging to different owners sitting on adjacent plots is unlikely look the same and painted the with same color. I don't consider implementation as buggy. Implementation has it's limitations but the limitations are reasonable. The limitations should be documented. Also, there are gotchas. 3. In a parsed-context, the parser can easily identify "the span" of a given character. So insisting that there be text properties other than point-entered could be limiting. In the example cited, the point-entered propery is ALWAYS ON meaning it is mode-local or buffer-local. > Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137908970618925 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:29:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 16:28:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34145 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKWEK-0004v9-Sq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:28:25 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:42374) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKWEI-0004uw-4Z for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:28:22 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLGBwSFBgNJIgeBgzBIZEKA5cpjVGBXoMT X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLGBwSFBgNJIgeBgzBIZEKA5cpjVGBXoMT X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="27643746" Received: from 184-175-16-104.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([184.175.16.104]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Sep 2013 12:24:42 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 28BF962CC9; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:28:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <83six8hfvl.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:28:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83six8hfvl.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 18:59:26 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > Sorry, I'm still in the dark. Does the code presented in > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=15312#11 work correctly > and as expected, or does it not? AFAICT, yes, it works fine. The problem is one of documentation. >> Clearly, this disagrees with: >> ,---- (info "(elisp) Not Intervals") >> | "What are the properties of this character?" So we have decided these >> | are the only questions that make sense; we have not implemented asking >> | questions about where intervals start or end. >> `---- >> And actually the above text is incorrect/incomplete in the sense that >> next-single-property-change clearly implements a functionality that lets >> you "ask questions about where intervals start or end". > Actually, it doesn't disagree, if you keep in mind what RMS meant when > he wrote that text (intervals can and do overlap, while runs of text > properties cannot). Right. But it just goes to show that the situation is more subtle. We should describe it more fully. > But IMO that is a completely different issue. IMO it is this exact issue. Jambunathan wrote: > (mapc > (lambda (s) > (insert (propertize s 'mouse-face font-lock-comment-face))) > '("ab" "cd")) you mean (dolist (s '("ab" "cd")) (insert (propertize s 'mouse-face font-lock-comment-face))) > The intention of the programmer in the above case MAY have been to treat > "ab" and "cd" differently. > But the way Emacs deals with them, it considers "abcd" as a single > stretch and they are highlighted together. Yes, exactly. If you want them to appear separate you need to arrange for the value to be non-eq, e.g.: (dolist (s '("ab" "cd")) (insert (propertize s 'mouse-face (list font-lock-comment-face)))) -- Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:41:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137909045720261 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:41:05 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 16:40:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34172 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKWQR-0005Gi-WA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:40:56 -0400 Received: from mail-pa0-f54.google.com ([209.85.220.54]:37496) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKWQF-0005GL-Tj for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:40:45 -0400 Received: by mail-pa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id kx10so2764425pab.27 for <15312@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:40:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=1VUx4C6Uuemqabb0OioX9YUzllEGaVOOPFdyMbbM8SU=; b=MHtmJU8QBZEXXBq8wXJW5h6CntQwhX/zigGmderg6GQrlHTcUhXwAYCT7YVHenrl8x pw3ccDgt9u6Va7VVg0kDnJFk45rJwDZwWtlapOVy8Mvzcv530IvjgApLpSnpV57uJwWq c75GEpxLDVExwXgq7uKuATpLHi1ReaCXqCkx8EZxfjpQ1t1KT17rUYq00q44Lqw3rqGo 4mzzdjLZpUqW5xeFkkCslFKgSa/CT6XaewyE19ruLUGERTvqZZAC4JkQKRb9P6m6HhuA /Eg/kt6hwrYC7oRVtBjwto7WKDnoKh6zn2m677JVo9l7cQEDLYeD+ZBUZVLNUQyQDjIs qAbw== X-Received: by 10.68.129.201 with SMTP id ny9mr14616911pbb.70.1379090437805; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porunai ([101.63.153.120]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id im4sm12781640pbc.34.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:40:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <83six8hfvl.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 22:12:58 +0530 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:28:14 -0400") Message-ID: <87fvt8n04t.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Stefan Monnier writes: >> Sorry, I'm still in the dark. Does the code presented in >> http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=15312#11 work correctly >> and as expected, or does it not? > > AFAICT, yes, it works fine. The problem is one of documentation. Turn off font-locking :-). It wouldn't work. > Jambunathan wrote: >> (mapc >> (lambda (s) >> (insert (propertize s 'mouse-face font-lock-comment-face))) >> '("ab" "cd")) > > you mean > > (dolist (s '("ab" "cd")) > (insert (propertize s 'mouse-face font-lock-comment-face))) Is that a convention or there is more to it? They do the same thing, right? If you ask me, the fact there are two chunks can be inferred by saying that they were added as two different calls. >> The intention of the programmer in the above case MAY have been to treat >> "ab" and "cd" differently. >> But the way Emacs deals with them, it considers "abcd" as a single >> stretch and they are highlighted together. > > Yes, exactly. If you want them to appear separate you need to arrange > for the value to be non-eq, e.g.: > > (dolist (s '("ab" "cd")) > (insert (propertize s 'mouse-face (list font-lock-comment-face)))) You are cloning a face here? Are there any workarounds when the value of the text property is a function or a value type. How can we have clones of a function (or a symbol)? How can we clone a value type like Integer? May be there is a way to turn a Value in to a Object? (In C# world, it is called "Boxing") > -- Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137909063820586 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 16:43:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34188 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKWTO-0005Lx-6W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:43:58 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:43900) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKWTL-0005Lg-Qv for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:43:57 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MT200200OX4BY00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:43:48 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MT20020PP503MA0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:43:48 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:43:37 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87k3ikn16j.fsf@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83r4cshdty.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <87k3ikn16j.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Jambunathan K > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 21:50:20 +0530 > > (mapc > (lambda (s) > (insert (propertize s 'mouse-face font-lock-comment-face))) > '("ab" "cd")) > > The intention of the programmer in the above case MAY have been to treat > "ab" and "cd" differently. > > But the way Emacs deals with them, it considers "abcd" as a single > stretch and they are highlighted together. That's not because of the text properties, but because mouse-highlight implementation is explicitly coded that way. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137909074720798 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 16:45:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34193 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKWV8-0005PO-Qk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:45:47 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:42057) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKWV6-0005P8-H3 for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:45:45 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MT200M00P5J5O00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:45:38 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MT200L1QP81ZO70@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:45:38 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:45:26 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83ppschdqx.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <83six8hfvl.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: kjambunathan@gmail.com, 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:28:14 -0400 > > > Sorry, I'm still in the dark. Does the code presented in > > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=15312#11 work correctly > > and as expected, or does it not? > > AFAICT, yes, it works fine. Then please explain why it makes sense to call or not call these hooks depending on whether some other unrelated text property changed at point. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:19:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137909272623923 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:19:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 17:18:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34236 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKX13-0006Dn-KM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:18:46 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:46778) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKX11-0006DX-I6 for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:18:43 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjEAs0EhQYDSSIHgYMwSGRCgOXKY1RgV6DEw X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjEAs0EhQYDSSIHgYMwSGRCgOXKY1RgV6DEw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="27649556" Received: from 184-175-16-104.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([184.175.16.104]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Sep 2013 13:15:04 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 345BA62C91; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:18:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <83six8hfvl.fsf@gnu.org> <83ppschdqx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:18:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83ppschdqx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:45:26 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) >> > Sorry, I'm still in the dark. Does the code presented in >> > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=15312#11 work correctly >> > and as expected, or does it not? >> AFAICT, yes, it works fine. > Then please explain why it makes sense to call or not call these hooks > depending on whether some other unrelated text property changed at > point. Hmm... I missed that part. So it's sensitive to the C-level division into "struct interval"? That would be a bug, indeed. Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, Jambunathan K Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137909280424099 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:21:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 17:20:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34243 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKX2I-0006GU-JO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:20:02 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:28630) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKX2G-0006Fw-Kl for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:20:00 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOkeoFegxM X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOkeoFegxM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="27649739" Received: from 184-175-16-104.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([184.175.16.104]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Sep 2013 13:16:21 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id C75B562C91; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:19:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <87k3ikn16j.fsf@gmail.com> <83r4cshdty.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:19:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83r4cshdty.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:43:37 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > That's not because of the text properties, but because mouse-highlight > implementation is explicitly coded that way. It's done elsewhere, indeed, but to the user the end-result is the same: the text-properties end up describing an interval-ish thing. Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13791003894131 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:27:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 19:26:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34491 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKZ0e-00014Y-Pe for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:26:29 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:35519) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKZ0b-00014J-BM for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:26:26 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MT200000WBJ2X00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 22:26:18 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MT2000Y1WNU0O60@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 22:26:18 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 22:26:07 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83ob7wh6b4.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <83six8hfvl.fsf@gnu.org> <83ppschdqx.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: kjambunathan@gmail.com, 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:18:37 -0400 > > >> > Sorry, I'm still in the dark. Does the code presented in > >> > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=15312#11 work correctly > >> > and as expected, or does it not? > >> AFAICT, yes, it works fine. > > Then please explain why it makes sense to call or not call these hooks > > depending on whether some other unrelated text property changed at > > point. > > Hmm... I missed that part. So it's sensitive to the C-level division > into "struct interval"? That would be a bug, indeed. The problem, as I see it, is here: /* We run point-left and point-entered hooks here, if the two intervals are not equivalent. These hooks take (old_point, new_point) as arguments. */ if (NILP (Vinhibit_point_motion_hooks) && (! intervals_equal (from, to) || ! intervals_equal (fromprev, toprev))) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The intervals_equal test causes the whole code below that to be skipped if each one of the point-entered and point-left properties don't change between position POS and POS+1, and no other properties change between those two positions. When some other property does change between those two positions, the hooks are called if point-entered is different from point-left. (Personally, I think this test is just an attempt to optimize costly text property comparisons when they are not necessary.) To get this right, we need to decide what is the correct behavior in this case. Do we want the hooks to be called for each point motion, or do we want them to be called only at point-min and point-max? The documentation is not 100% clear, but it seems to imply that the hooks shall be called for each movement, because point-entered is different from point-left. FWIW, this behavior won't make sense to me, because there's no reason for point-entered and point-left to be identical in the general case: each one of them reacts to a different event. But that's me. Depending on what we think should be the correct behavior, we may or may not need to fix the documentation. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:28:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13791004694283 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:28:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 19:27:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34502 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKZ1w-00016y-Db for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:27:49 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:35713) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKZ1t-00016g-Ns for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:27:46 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MT200000WBJ2X00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 22:27:40 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MT2000H8WQ30O70@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 22:27:40 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 22:27:29 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83mwngh68u.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <87k3ikn16j.fsf@gmail.com> <83r4cshdty.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Jambunathan K , 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:19:54 -0400 > > > That's not because of the text properties, but because mouse-highlight > > implementation is explicitly coded that way. > > It's done elsewhere, indeed, but to the user the end-result is the same: > the text-properties end up describing an interval-ish thing. Interval-ish and "intervals" are not the same. Intervals can (and do) overlap, and they actually represent a tree of text extents. Text properties cannot overlap. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137910434510680 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 20:32:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34660 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKa2T-0002mC-De for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:32:25 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:12221) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKa2R-0002lv-Dv for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:32:23 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOkeoFegxM X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOkeoFegxM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="27680609" Received: from 184-175-16-104.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([184.175.16.104]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Sep 2013 16:28:43 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 009F462CB9; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <83six8hfvl.fsf@gnu.org> <83ppschdqx.fsf@gnu.org> <83ob7wh6b4.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:32:16 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83ob7wh6b4.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 22:26:07 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > (Personally, I think this test is just an attempt to optimize costly > text property comparisons when they are not necessary.) Agreed. > To get this right, we need to decide what is the correct behavior in > this case. Do we want the hooks to be called for each point motion, > or do we want them to be called only at point-min and point-max? I think the correct thing to do is too costly for an operation that's performed every time we move point. The right thing to do is to declare point-entered and point-left properties as obsolete and replace them by something like cursor-entered and cursor-left properties which are only checked at command boundaries (or better, checked just before redisplay). Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137910451710970 (code B ref 15312); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2013 20:35:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKa5E-0002qs-Te for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:35:17 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:12666) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKa5D-0002qX-HN for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:35:15 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjEAs0EhQYDSSIHgbBLZEKA6R6gV6DEw X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFG4rxBo/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjEAs0EhQYDSSIHgbBLZEKA6R6gV6DEw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="27681426" Received: from 184-175-16-104.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([184.175.16.104]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Sep 2013 16:31:36 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 95FA762CB9; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:35:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <87k3ikn16j.fsf@gmail.com> <83r4cshdty.fsf@gnu.org> <83mwngh68u.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:35:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83mwngh68u.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 22:27:29 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) >> > That's not because of the text properties, but because mouse-highlight >> > implementation is explicitly coded that way. >> It's done elsewhere, indeed, but to the user the end-result is the same: >> the text-properties end up describing an interval-ish thing. > Interval-ish and "intervals" are not the same. Intervals can (and do) > overlap, and they actually represent a tree of text extents. Text > properties cannot overlap. I the manual, we do not formally define "interval", so I think that something that describes a contiguous sequence of characters *is* an interval in that context, even if it's not necessarily an interval-in-the-particular-sense-discussed-nearby. Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 06:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13791403937495 (code B ref 15312); Sat, 14 Sep 2013 06:34:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2013 06:33:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35532 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKjPs-0001wo-Sg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:33:13 -0400 Received: from mail-pd0-f175.google.com ([209.85.192.175]:41195) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKjPn-0001wM-Me for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:33:08 -0400 Received: by mail-pd0-f175.google.com with SMTP id q10so2101473pdj.20 for <15312@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 23:33:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=+bTlpAG+2svGgfn+ZRPZyyUJ1sBiWqy5IyoCNK/CtAM=; b=BEmIchNi8C19wFTIpIdR2SAt2DiAuAJBCJgTAtRS6ZbCBLbnXFl5S86FvwkPJQQUKm rJ5e/seIHLyH5jwK1lA9e8b3lW4KBCksfcRd49rMWofcOuUTgjfYT4M+l89Me9JBR6dA Cg1MPpaQKR2sGuBqWTZsAkyVVZn32kWvqp5ifgi23KxUNah3yCW4Pdzgk7KrhFIxIqfQ eaTN1rwR7ntUit3dxRXgbAq+Yj2EjIpeZ1vVrqSVITdMMLSRlwZl65Jjbck7+496pxd7 AWWdIdDy5KVrFIf2qskExcy5qg7RjnsVeopLbMSGo12toUbGb5R+DnDPwsn5TpAnrcVI iizA== X-Received: by 10.66.25.232 with SMTP id f8mr19413228pag.25.1379140381242; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 23:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porunai ([115.244.225.23]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id tg7sm16242592pbc.36.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Sep 2013 23:32:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <8361u5i1w9.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 12:05:21 +0530 In-Reply-To: <8361u5i1w9.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:03:50 +0300") Message-ID: <87ppsbj4gm.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Eli Eli Zaretskii writes: > No, I didn't. Sorry, didn't read past this point. Maybe my other > message hits the point; if not, please consider being more concise and > on-topic next time. This is an insult. I invite you to look at my topmost post and comparte that to your postmortem. It points to the precise position in intervals.c which creates an unexpected behaviour. FYI, I was interested in moving Overlays to Interval trees and add support for Text layers. I am attaching some notes on Overlays that I took, just so that you know I not bull-shitting. Due to various developments on this and related mailing lists, I have put that work on hold. Now, I am positively certain that if I continue to be part of this list and the "other" mailing lists, I only come across as someone who as no self-respect. 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(point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 06:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13791413169062 (code B ref 15312); Sat, 14 Sep 2013 06:49:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2013 06:48:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35549 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKjek-0002M6-Uq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:48:35 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:42647) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKjeg-0002Ln-8i for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:48:31 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MT300900RYC4H00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:48:23 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MT3009KPS8K3U30@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:48:20 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:48:11 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83hadnhpas.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <83six8hfvl.fsf@gnu.org> <83ppschdqx.fsf@gnu.org> <83ob7wh6b4.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: kjambunathan@gmail.com, 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:32:16 -0400 > > > To get this right, we need to decide what is the correct behavior in > > this case. Do we want the hooks to be called for each point motion, > > or do we want them to be called only at point-min and point-max? > > I think the correct thing to do is too costly for an operation that's > performed every time we move point. So you think in this specific situation the hooks need indeed be called for each point move? Or did you mean something else as "the correct thing"? Perhaps we need to step back and talk about the situations where these hooks are supposed to be used. Because I cannot see any sense in calling the hooks when the values of these properties don't change. Maybe you already thought about all that, and the conclusion is the same, but I think for the record it is important to have the discussion here. > The right thing to do is to declare point-entered and point-left > properties as obsolete and replace them by something like cursor-entered > and cursor-left properties which are only checked at command boundaries > (or better, checked just before redisplay). Redisplay can be forced as part of a command. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 06:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.13791414219256 (code B ref 15312); Sat, 14 Sep 2013 06:51:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2013 06:50:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35554 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKjgS-0002PC-3C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:50:20 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:42941) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VKjgO-0002Ox-UH for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:50:17 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MT300900RM73B00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:50:11 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MT3009SISBM1760@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:50:11 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:50:01 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83fvt7hp7q.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <87k3ikn16j.fsf@gmail.com> <83r4cshdty.fsf@gnu.org> <83mwngh68u.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: kjambunathan@gmail.com, 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:35:09 -0400 > > >> > That's not because of the text properties, but because mouse-highlight > >> > implementation is explicitly coded that way. > >> It's done elsewhere, indeed, but to the user the end-result is the same: > >> the text-properties end up describing an interval-ish thing. > > Interval-ish and "intervals" are not the same. Intervals can (and do) > > overlap, and they actually represent a tree of text extents. Text > > properties cannot overlap. > > I the manual, we do not formally define "interval", so I think that > something that describes a contiguous sequence of characters *is* an > interval in that context, even if it's not necessarily an > interval-in-the-particular-sense-discussed-nearby. Then perhaps the right place for some such text is in "Property Search", where those "intervals" are called "chunks of text that have the same property value". From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 16:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137934813211944 (code B ref 15312); Mon, 16 Sep 2013 16:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2013 16:15:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41306 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VLbSV-00036Z-GA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:15:32 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:43459) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VLbSS-00036Q-Jf for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:15:29 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r8GGFRAA009164; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:15:27 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 91C5AB40D3; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:15:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <83six8hfvl.fsf@gnu.org> <83ppschdqx.fsf@gnu.org> <83ob7wh6b4.fsf@gnu.org> <83hadnhpas.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:15:27 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83hadnhpas.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:48:11 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4703=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9362 : core <4703> : inlines <87> : streams <1038675> : uri <1538500> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > Perhaps we need to step back and talk about the situations where these > hooks are supposed to be used. Because I cannot see any sense in > calling the hooks when the values of these properties don't change. Agreed, but the code also runs the hook when the value of the `point-entered' does not change but the value of some unrelated property changes. That is an error. >> The right thing to do is to declare point-entered and point-left >> properties as obsolete and replace them by something like cursor-entered >> and cursor-left properties which are only checked at command boundaries >> (or better, checked just before redisplay). > Redisplay can be forced as part of a command. I know, and I think that for most uses of these kinds of properties we'd also want to run the hook when redisplay is called in the middle of a command (e.g. in the middle of query-replace). Note that we'd probably also want to run the hook when redisplay is short-circuited by pending input. Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 17:11:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15312 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org, kjambunathan@gmail.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15312-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15312.137935145621413 (code B ref 15312); Mon, 16 Sep 2013 17:11:01 +0000 Received: (at 15312) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2013 17:10:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41422 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VLcK7-0005ZI-Ra for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 13:10:56 -0400 Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:53167) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VLcK5-0005Z3-Aq for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 13:10:54 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MT800G00ADVXH00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 15312@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 20:10:45 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MT800GLDADXR770@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 20:10:45 +0300 (IDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 20:10:41 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83vc20pu9a.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> <83sixej6iz.fsf@gnu.org> <878uz573kr.fsf@gmail.com> <83fvtck8mv.fsf@gnu.org> <87hadrel77.fsf@gmail.com> <83zjrjiifl.fsf@gnu.org> <877gel1ejy.fsf@gmail.com> <87vc25z1pe.fsf@gmail.com> <83vc24hmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <83six8hfvl.fsf@gnu.org> <83ppschdqx.fsf@gnu.org> <83ob7wh6b4.fsf@gnu.org> <83hadnhpas.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: kjambunathan@gmail.com, 15312@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:15:27 -0400 > > > Perhaps we need to step back and talk about the situations where these > > hooks are supposed to be used. Because I cannot see any sense in > > calling the hooks when the values of these properties don't change. > > Agreed, but the code also runs the hook when the value of the > `point-entered' does not change but the value of some unrelated > property changes. That is an error. Of course. But I was trying to say that we should formulate a clear specification for when these hooks shall be called. What the manual says now makes little sense to me (and is also somewhat vague). > >> The right thing to do is to declare point-entered and point-left > >> properties as obsolete and replace them by something like cursor-entered > >> and cursor-left properties which are only checked at command boundaries > >> (or better, checked just before redisplay). > > Redisplay can be forced as part of a command. > > I know, and I think that for most uses of these kinds of properties we'd > also want to run the hook when redisplay is called in the middle of > a command (e.g. in the middle of query-replace). Note that we'd probably > also want to run the hook when redisplay is short-circuited by pending input. Calling this from redisplay might need some non-trivial protocol, because the hook can legitimately move point, which will re-enter redisplay, which will call the hook... From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:12:32 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.503) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Jambunathan K Subject: bug#15312: closed (Re: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect) Message-ID: References: <87iovujlwg.fsf@gmail.com> <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 15312 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 15312@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 05:05:05 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1384491905-8311-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1384491905-8311-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 15312@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 15312: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D15312 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1384491905-8311-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 15312-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2013 05:04:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53571 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VhBaP-00029I-Fz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 00:04:53 -0500 Received: from mail-pa0-f48.google.com ([209.85.220.48]:39072) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VhBaO-000292-A3 for 15312-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 00:04:52 -0500 Received: by mail-pa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id bj1so3062609pad.35 for <15312-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:04:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type; bh=SlEONq7cceZgJgunHYjOx1iXECbTVnQI/QqxDpRYuxc=; b=hhA8BffqCx5Tcym/85b39P1GKeUpzXVQl/Ifrem1eItO4/GP3QNEWltujt2Hd46J2u ZzQ4RxrNEkZLHjRZ9TYDbFErwwYtZ6ArMnnzx1zgSH8AwdvqubgwAfhYJ8PSe9NuomWm BZbOQ5HjYnVsqS50FrlDGEwxWqLwvCwsIHA1aqlsT8TGU8HrbRwUHMGn5oWGKJyw3En4 39NiDN0yAF1h/pVuXH4v5LHt/DXY0hZcZSo/XRWScLRXZ+QjfHYtsPC2VPsqcGrlPebS YPlhn9lbJy/f9PP/WaRgxsLX3udEow/PrXqyDBMsK1NyRcQiLtQM2BMkTNUvqq/qbncA BcYA== X-Received: by 10.66.142.132 with SMTP id rw4mr5170477pab.6.1384491886747; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:04:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from debian-6.05 ([115.241.27.214]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hi5sm1542558pbb.43.2013.11.14.21.04.44 for <15312-done@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:04:46 -0800 (PST) From: Jambunathan K To: 15312-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#15312: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect References: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:34:31 +0530 In-Reply-To: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:04:59 +0530") Message-ID: <87iovujlwg.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15312-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) No thanks for working on this. OP here. Closed. ------------=_1384491905-8311-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Sep 2013 13:33:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50189 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1ah-00040x-TE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:33:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54996) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1aa-00040d-EM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:33:16 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1aM-0001ty-PS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:33:07 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:48735) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1aM-0001tt-M5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:32:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56622) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1aE-00058H-9Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:32:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1a5-0001jC-SO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:32:50 -0400 Received: from mail-pd0-x22f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22f]:55747) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ1a5-0001iG-KY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:32:41 -0400 Received: by mail-pd0-f175.google.com with SMTP id q10so6158872pdj.6 for ; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 06:32:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-type; bh=JihACDubu7DDs9uqORNVlAAHeLUKlEH/9RatUYTUDow=; b=Tge7hi8Q5ME3LXlG5SpGLy38FYjAq4CaOqVZ0aCFMgkTwhm4iXvY3vQ1hrlrielOcD Ubfi2m9z9s/914c4e7tbR5Au44F/D6Mc8v0DrQXy2zvY03DeAuIaMijgNUuEqbQDRUXr +ql5gv2FC1PwMyliO4+lXSi/v7+tWvNguGkUGxA2BpKEfeAcF55ugX6bzKMz9C7RAN0T GJbEjPdwjS3i62bHniUvs6Nib59eWvW6tcwNd2Nokw74/QTODhM1ROi01ABN6lRWoLDx DBDktmYQ6wcB/kUI0YTq/Qf/KzudS0X9pFs5kM2RaoqnEgh97hEX5rAcf6ct9vgryE+d pDWw== X-Received: by 10.67.3.103 with SMTP id bv7mr19944555pad.15.1378733560514; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 06:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porunai ([115.244.224.237]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nv6sm16338854pbc.6.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Sep 2013 06:32:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Info (point-entered, point-left): Doc incomplete, hence incorrect Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:04:59 +0530 Message-ID: <87ppsiw22k.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) The info doc (see below) makes no mention of intervals/text properties. It should mention what intervals.c actually does. ,---- From intervals.c | /* We run point-left and point-entered hooks here, if the | two intervals are not equivalent. These hooks take | (old_point, new_point) as arguments. */ `---- ,---- (info "(elisp) Special Properties") | `point-entered' | `point-left' | The special properties `point-entered' and `point-left' record | hook functions that report motion of point. Each time point | moves, Emacs compares these two property values: | | * the `point-left' property of the character after the old | location, and | | * the `point-entered' property of the character after the new | location. | | If these two values differ, each of them is called (if not `nil') | with two arguments: the old value of point, and the new one. `---- ------------=_1384491905-8311-1--