From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 18 01:26:54 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2013 05:26:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37807 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VAvVt-0004Ur-TQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 01:26:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41615) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VAvVr-0004UZ-IL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 01:26:52 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VAvVd-0005yW-2G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 01:26:46 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:59614) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VAvVc-0005yS-VA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 01:26:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43306) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VAvVV-0003uR-F6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 01:26:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VAvVN-0005wq-TA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 01:26:29 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:34909) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VAvVN-0005wm-M9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 01:26:21 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r7I5QKNi027231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:26:20 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7I5QJEC021178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:26:19 GMT Received: from abhmt111.oracle.com (abhmt111.oracle.com [141.146.116.63]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7I5QIUP022338 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:26:18 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 22:26:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.3.50; [PATCH] byte-compiler warnings about destructive functions X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="__1376803578549230277abhmt111.oracle.com" X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) --__1376803578549230277abhmt111.oracle.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This StackOverflow entry suggested that the Emacs-Lisp byte compiler be able to warn about the use of functions that are destructive, i.e., can modify data structures in place: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17610046/elisp-destructive-operation-war= ning Attached is a patch that provides this, at least a start. It covers the basic functions that can perform in-place data structure=20 modification: lists, strings, vectors and other arrays, symbol properties. These are generally the functions identified as destructive or modifying in the Elisp manual. A comment in the code identifies some other possible candidates that occurred to me while browsing the manual. Modify the list of functions as you see fit (variable `byte-compile-destructive-functions'). I'm no expert on some of the data structure implementations, and the manual is sometimes not so clear about whether destructive modification occurs. And perhaps there are cases where although the modification is destructive at an implementation level the user need not be concerned about that level, so such functions should not be included. Dunno. Perhaps also something could be done in the future wrt recognition of particular cases for `setf' modification. 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18 Aug 2013 18:39:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38815 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VB7sW-0002Sx-SI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 14:39:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:50711 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VB7sU-0002Sf-Bz for 15122@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 14:39:02 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VB7sL-0006UC-3X; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 14:38:53 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 14:38:53 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 17 Aug 2013 22:26:16 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#15122: 24.3.50; [PATCH] byte-compiler warnings about destructive functions References: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> X-Spam-Score: -7.8 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15122 Cc: 15122@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.8 (-------) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. It covers the basic functions that can perform in-place data structure modification: lists, strings, vectors and other arrays, symbol properties. Why cater to such a weird style preference? It would require continuing work to maintain. Someone who wants to do this can easily write a function to search for the function names he wants to avoid using. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 18 22:59:56 2013 Received: (at 15122) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2013 02:59:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39396 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBFhE-0008ET-0B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 22:59:56 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:47487) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBFhB-0008ED-MW for 15122@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 22:59:54 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r7J2xq31032290; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 22:59:52 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id C0E9DAE0CA; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 22:59:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#15122: 24.3.50; [PATCH] byte-compiler warnings about destructive functions Message-ID: References: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 22:59:51 -0400 In-Reply-To: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 17 Aug 2013 22:26:16 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4674=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9362 : core <4674> : streams <1022147> : uri <1510783> X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15122 Cc: 15122@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) > This StackOverflow entry suggested that the Emacs-Lisp byte compiler be > able to warn about the use of functions that are destructive, i.e., can > modify data structures in place: > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17610046/elisp-destructive-operation-warning > Attached is a patch that provides this, at least a start. All of those functions are used on a regular basis in perfectly correct code. So just flagging every call is not going to fly. We need to have some further analysis so that we don't flag all calls, but only those that "could be dangerous". As it stands, your code would just flood you with false positives, so it wouldn't really help you find the problematic uses. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 19 01:07:29 2013 Received: (at 15122) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2013 05:07:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39530 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBHgf-0003On-6w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:07:29 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:50054) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBHgc-0003OS-0i for 15122@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:07:27 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r7J57I6L031908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 05:07:19 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7J57H2P022161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 05:07:18 GMT Received: from abhmt106.oracle.com (abhmt106.oracle.com [141.146.116.58]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7J57GaB005748; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 05:07:17 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <189c1f04-03cf-4dbb-b8ac-b190a774788c@default> Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 22:07:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier Subject: RE: bug#15122: 24.3.50; [PATCH] byte-compiler warnings about destructive functions References: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15122 Cc: 15122@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) > > This StackOverflow entry suggested that the Emacs-Lisp byte compiler be > > able to warn about the use of functions that are destructive, i.e., can > > modify data structures in place: > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17610046/elisp-destructive-operation= - > > warning Attached is a patch that provides this, at least a start. >=20 > All of those functions are used on a regular basis in perfectly > correct code. So just flagging every call is not going to fly. We need > to have some further analysis so that we don't flag all calls, but only > those that "could be dangerous". >=20 > As it stands, your code would just flood you with false positives, > so it wouldn't really help you find the problematic uses. That was not the aim. The question was not whether particular code that uses a destructive operation is correct. The question was whether particular code uses a destructive operation at all. That's all. See the OP, which spoke of an "elisp-newbie-mode". He requested a feature that "adds warnings about destructive operations being used". Not being used wrongly or problematically, just being used. Anyway, I would agree that warning about use of a destructive function should be turned off by default. It's also fine with me if you ignore the patch altogether. I can see a use for such a warning, as I expect there are a fair number of people who want to avoid using destructive operations in general and might not be aware of when they might be doing so. I mentioned Scheme's explicit choice to name all such functions in a noticeable way. Drawing attention to (all) use of destructive operations is not necessarily a useless thing, depending on the user and context. That was the point of the patch. It was not to detect uses that are "problematic", such as where you forget to use `setq' after `delq' to store the result back into the source variable, or similar. (Yes, it is true that the OP example was such a case.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 20 01:07:23 2013 Received: (at 15122) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2013 05:07:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41674 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBeA6-0007fT-Na for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 01:07:22 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:30536) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBeA5-0007fJ-2B for 15122@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 01:07:21 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFHO+LNT/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHgaxH5AOjQ6DfAOkeoFegxM X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFHO+LNT/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHgaxH5AOjQ6DfAOkeoFegxM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="22577855" Received: from 206-248-179-83.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([206.248.179.83]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 20 Aug 2013 01:07:11 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id C389FAE0CA; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 01:07:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#15122: 24.3.50; [PATCH] byte-compiler warnings about destructive functions Message-ID: References: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> <189c1f04-03cf-4dbb-b8ac-b190a774788c@default> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 01:07:12 -0400 In-Reply-To: <189c1f04-03cf-4dbb-b8ac-b190a774788c@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 18 Aug 2013 22:07:14 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15122 Cc: 15122@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > might not be aware of when they might be doing so. I mentioned Scheme's > explicit choice to name all such functions in a noticeable way. Drawing > attention to (all) use of destructive operations is not necessarily a > useless thing, depending on the user and context. Yes, I like Scheme's convention. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 20 10:07:48 2013 Received: (at 15122) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2013 14:07:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42652 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBmb5-00073T-1A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:07:47 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:28758) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBmb0-00073H-Mz for 15122@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:07:43 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r7KE7fK2015315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:07:41 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7KE7brG029206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:07:40 GMT Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7KE7bCZ013010; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:07:37 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <788e435c-ad81-40b1-8f92-3a55d3da6cd9@default> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 07:07:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier Subject: RE: bug#15122: 24.3.50; [PATCH] byte-compiler warnings about destructive functions References: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> <189c1f04-03cf-4dbb-b8ac-b190a774788c@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15122 Cc: 15122@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) > > might not be aware of when they might be doing so. I mentioned Scheme'= s > > explicit choice to name all such functions in a noticeable way. Drawin= g > > attention to (all) use of destructive operations is not necessarily a > > useless thing, depending on the user and context. >=20 > Yes, I like Scheme's convention. Then consider adding (subtle, optional) font-lock highlighting of such. That would anyway be better than compiler warnings. The list of fns I came up with is a start. You might even consider putting a recognizable property on the function symbols, as well. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 20 10:39:59 2013 Received: (at 15122) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2013 14:39:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42693 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBn6E-00086J-Mo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:39:59 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:57432) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBn6C-00085m-2H for 15122@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:39:56 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFHO+LNT/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMQCzQSFBgNJIgeBrEfkA6NDoN8A6R6gV6DEw X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFHO+LNT/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMQCzQSFBgNJIgeBrEfkA6NDoN8A6R6gV6DEw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="22610155" Received: from 206-248-179-83.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([206.248.179.83]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 20 Aug 2013 10:39:48 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 084F1AE1E2; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#15122: 24.3.50; [PATCH] byte-compiler warnings about destructive functions Message-ID: References: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> <189c1f04-03cf-4dbb-b8ac-b190a774788c@default> <788e435c-ad81-40b1-8f92-3a55d3da6cd9@default> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:39:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: <788e435c-ad81-40b1-8f92-3a55d3da6cd9@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 20 Aug 2013 07:07:36 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15122 Cc: 15122@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) >> > might not be aware of when they might be doing so. I mentioned Scheme's >> > explicit choice to name all such functions in a noticeable way. Drawing >> > attention to (all) use of destructive operations is not necessarily a >> > useless thing, depending on the user and context. >> Yes, I like Scheme's convention. > Then consider adding (subtle, optional) font-lock highlighting of such. > That would anyway be better than compiler warnings. The list of fns > I came up with is a start. You might even consider putting a recognizable > property on the function symbols, as well. Font-lock might be a good idea, indeed. We could also additionally start to introduce Scheme-style names, like sort!, reverse!, butlast!, ... Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 20 11:15:59 2013 Received: (at 15122) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2013 15:15:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42748 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBnf4-0000nj-Jk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:15:58 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:39257) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBnf1-0000nZ-OQ for 15122@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:15:56 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r7KFFrBh008096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:15:54 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7KFFqhk004480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:15:53 GMT Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7KFFq8k004473; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:15:52 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 08:15:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier Subject: RE: bug#15122: 24.3.50; [PATCH] byte-compiler warnings about destructive functions References: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> <189c1f04-03cf-4dbb-b8ac-b190a774788c@default> <788e435c-ad81-40b1-8f92-3a55d3da6cd9@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15122 Cc: 15122@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) > >> Yes, I like Scheme's convention. > > Then consider adding (subtle, optional) font-lock highlighting of such. > > That would anyway be better than compiler warnings. The list of fns > > I came up with is a start. You might even consider putting a recogniza= ble > > property on the function symbols, as well. >=20 > Font-lock might be a good idea, indeed. > We could also additionally start to introduce Scheme-style names, like > sort!, reverse!, butlast!, ... I would vote against that. We should aim to be closer to Common Lisp (in behavior and in naming, wrt new or changed names), not closer to Scheme. Optional font-locking is an appropriate Emacs response to this need. Scheme naming is not, IMO. This indication should be optional and off by default. Just one opinion. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 20 21:00:21 2013 Received: (at 15122) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2013 01:00:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43667 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBwma-00062W-8X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:00:20 -0400 Received: from mail-pd0-f170.google.com ([209.85.192.170]:44493) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBwmT-00062H-S1 for 15122@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:00:14 -0400 Received: by mail-pd0-f170.google.com with SMTP id x10so1129841pdj.29 for <15122@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:00:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:face:reply-to:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=ewJAM4xnes7Rvv64KJ3a9A182XxHgzdr2Q38kHR03uE=; b=gBe+57mA6/lQrAYn//jU2777KQhoHDu8yOb3yobHokMcHaiAySn+Tn9MvO2qo0Tizg pxebbc3j22Aw4KJWvR0okSvEAOfOHVt83zeHSppTauNOz3FsuW3s0ZE21f9kKKE9COss t54sTnHWliwkps71XwMTYo9A18GJKqttpeZ+3kh9Jj2jir2j0CiCZblmaNc87cBvU4us JlvekVnwZno7vVqEKGiTJ3dMtwTvk11OOCdTvTDBgQOu88o3w69GQzMWEimMsNph8yxl nUCL9GEOO8n4Vn6ds4NQHS0ixZLXGYcYW/RLmNOhD9YIp9jvGGzU/Va8UO7wm8CAd2RT PHBA== X-Received: by 10.66.248.161 with SMTP id yn1mr6934654pac.0.1377046812324; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Zeuss-MacBook.local ([111.195.94.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ia5sm4745568pbc.42.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:00:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Leo Liu To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#15122: 24.3.50; [PATCH] byte-compiler warnings about destructive functions References: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> <189c1f04-03cf-4dbb-b8ac-b190a774788c@default> <788e435c-ad81-40b1-8f92-3a55d3da6cd9@default> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACgAAAAoBAMAAAB+0KVeAAAAMFBMVEUaFRZLMy1dTENxVzKQ WiCrXQ97cmO/dSqSh3akjGTApXy5sJ7Sxo/Sz8Xo6eP9//xJbkruAAAAAWJLR0QAiAUdSAAAAAlw SFlzAAACxQAAAsUBidZ/7wAAAAd0SU1FB9cBBwMJOwHXewoAAAIBSURBVCjPVdNBiNNAFADQ6J4F x3hThHZBBC+WCFI8SS0iezRDcMHLHkLAg6gJH/fgYQ9xYlj2sLK4KHgqCgXFhda2Idmr4kkQPZQ0 nkQMbTypbMmMM2m7ZgYSmMef/5OZPwo7HFnx3uKPcmj0Dht1LWZJ+Hvr7dIFZXRUwl9VRTuuKDJ+ U44gjscknK4hhJaCkYRsWjmBtLqXlJAG2wipNe18OZJu1BBq1E8xafl4s6Jq2mUZGftU1y7CCxnp FVUDWJXx4C66BKBnErbuoaYNtoRTu6EZBsCbMn7W+5qOAR6WvxNOby9jHWC9hAf3n304CdiAByXs 3Nh9roLDkyb/sWV712vYwaLSAn8CPMHIAAzOPDKP2COAFm4Y4ODVWc6xG7KXsN7UeUJjjimx2uwd gCgNhr0i8C/xyCD5CiCKAMY3Bf5oDzx//w/fimscdcAZU2jv9sedx6+nYPPFIoWI/GK6QZ+EFGOR ErAjCnV3vPZ7XqlTIMbOLY7fLcvvmT7rXNWaGDexIY44N12TG2PDp7vqyl57dnCeuWwyNpnEURxk fTbDYeBnKRn4oejPYI4sH6WviBumEZ/GxX4X/x6EcURFZ7E071bjQGAxpcOAEOJuTiroDEea5Szv rVWLYfl7ZiQwSUToxrkux7OLixAWGz22+HIyWTRYcVfomOwvzusfjtVIGgLHf3MAAAAASUVORK5C YII= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:00:06 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:39:54 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (OS X 10.8.4) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15122 Cc: 15122@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: 15122@debbugs.gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On 2013-08-20 22:39 +0800, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Font-lock might be a good idea, indeed. > We could also additionally start to introduce Scheme-style names, like > sort!, reverse!, butlast!, ... But one would desperately want lisp-1. Leo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 21 00:24:41 2013 Received: (at 15122) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2013 04:24:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43894 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBzyK-0003vP-NK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:24:41 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:25563) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VBzyI-0003vH-CG for 15122@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:24:38 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: At8KABK/CFHO+LNT/2dsb2JhbABEuzWCWAQCexdzgh4BAQQBViMQCw4mEhQYDSSIHgazMI19kQoDpHqBXoJqKQ X-IPAS-Result: At8KABK/CFHO+LNT/2dsb2JhbABEuzWCWAQCexdzgh4BAQQBViMQCw4mEhQYDSSIHgazMI19kQoDpHqBXoJqKQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="22722622" Received: from 206-248-179-83.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([206.248.179.83]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 21 Aug 2013 00:24:30 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 50787AE1E2; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:24:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Leo Liu Subject: Re: bug#15122: 24.3.50; [PATCH] byte-compiler warnings about destructive functions Message-ID: References: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> <189c1f04-03cf-4dbb-b8ac-b190a774788c@default> <788e435c-ad81-40b1-8f92-3a55d3da6cd9@default> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:24:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Leo Liu's message of "Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:00:06 +0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15122 Cc: 15122@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) >> Font-lock might be a good idea, indeed. >> We could also additionally start to introduce Scheme-style names, like >> sort!, reverse!, butlast!, ... > But one would desperately want lisp-1. We'll get that when we switch to Emacs-Guile. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 21 12:54:21 2013 Received: (at 15122) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2013 16:54:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45276 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VCBfo-0008Og-Dv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:54:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:40824) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VCBfl-0008OX-2x for 15122@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:54:17 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VCBfj-0005Am-Uy; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:54:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:54:15 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Stefan Monnier In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:24:37 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#15122: 24.3.50; [PATCH] byte-compiler warnings about destructive functions References: <9ee2e7bb-6036-4e81-bb44-86d4ac74e7b8@default> <189c1f04-03cf-4dbb-b8ac-b190a774788c@default> <788e435c-ad81-40b1-8f92-3a55d3da6cd9@default> X-Spam-Score: -7.8 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15122 Cc: 15122@debbugs.gnu.org, sdl.web@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.8 (-------) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. Changing text in a buffer is a very important part of Emacs. Thus, I think applying a naming convention to all functions with side effects is absurd in the context of Emacs. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 23:31:05 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Feb 2016 04:31:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42147 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aYR6P-0005E1-Fq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2016 23:31:05 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:37428) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aYR6N-0005CV-WB for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2016 23:31:04 -0500 Received: from cpe-60-225-211-161.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([60.225.211.161] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1aYR5z-0000Gq-05 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2016 05:30:39 +0100 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:30:35 +1100 Message-Id: <87d1rmivbo.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #15122 X-MailScanner-ID: 1aYR5z-0000Gq-05 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1456893040.81016@rO95VvdOVc5Vy6aJSrENDA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) tags 15122 wontfix close 15122 From unknown Tue Jun 24 03:25:22 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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