From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Ivan Baidakou Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.13757348564796 (code B ref -1); Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:35:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2013 20:34:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41848 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RTr-0001FH-15 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:34:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44054) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKv-0000oT-4H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:25:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKk-0005eq-5S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:24:55 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:51782) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKk-0005ek-0a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:24:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45638) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKd-0006xq-1B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:24:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKU-0005Ya-Q7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:24:42 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:54988) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKU-0005YF-Gk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:24:34 -0400 Received: from localhost ([80.94.232.71]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx003) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LjZhg-1Vhy0W1iG0-00bZ7K for ; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 22:24:32 +0200 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 23:21:48 +0300 From: Ivan Baidakou Message-Id: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.24.17; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:IQFAbHHmd3rx+BYJaKmN6HJYHYpqTvivnu1ENVQo1cvRgYke89P 1vNO1n2DSGUpov/JURZWjSyaKW1yfEP9DqWJKjwgCmFb3wRWwgCzTAiMW+YflwKdfxrY1aa cvbpkBo9ax1dLtQzycMzaEv10BweRvmalm8b4WjVjuiDKhF3QAxAGar51CqrWs01kr3bqPk d3BKh9174z04ToYeIWmRg== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:34:14 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Hello! Please, add very useful feature: window-focus-lost-hook, which will give the possibility to save all unsaved buffers and no need of typing "C-x C-s", and, for example, the locally loaded html will be automatically refreshed in by browser, just as I switch to it via "ALT-tab" key. That feature is requested by other people too: http://batsov.com/articles/2012/03/08/emacs-tip-number-5-save-buffers-automatically-on-buffer-or-window-switch/ http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1230245/how-to-automatically-save-files-on-lose-focus-in-emacs but neither works for me. Thanks! Best Regards, Ivan Baidakou From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 23:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ivan Baidakou Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, Jan =?UTF-8?Q?Dj=C3=A4rv?= Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137583346617398 (code B ref 15029); Tue, 06 Aug 2013 23:58:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Aug 2013 23:57:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43988 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V6r8L-0004WY-It for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Aug 2013 19:57:45 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:50675 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V6r8J-0004WQ-Rn for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Aug 2013 19:57:44 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6r8I-00013N-MW; Tue, 06 Aug 2013 19:57:42 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> X-Spook: Saudi Arabia Vince Foster NWO airframe FSF BRLO X-Ran: v~Fc3!wCo+7Q#*EEH3c,_&3OHYP/QIY34p>m(V=<^E"akJyH$&6?hVzjhic>WuE_XjY+!H X-Hue: red X-Attribution: GM Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 19:57:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> (Ivan Baidakou's message of "Mon, 5 Aug 2013 23:21:48 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Ivan Baidakou wrote: > Please, add very useful feature: window-focus-lost-hook, Maybe you can do this now in Emacs trunk? But the feature is not documented anywhere (even in NEWS), and it's not clear how to use it: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-07/msg00555.html From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 19:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137590329732653 (code B ref 15029); Wed, 07 Aug 2013 19:22:01 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Aug 2013 19:21:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46093 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V79If-0008Ua-4Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:21:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:41778 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V79Id-0008UM-0E for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:21:35 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V79Ib-0007EM-Aq; Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:21:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:21:33 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Tue, 06 Aug 2013 19:57:42 -0400) References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. I think it is a very bad idea to run Lisp code because the user switches windows. I intentionally did not create such hooks, because their use would lead to confusing behavior which is impossible to debug. The user should be able to switch around between windows without disturbing them at all. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 03:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.13759329074765 (code B ref 15029); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 03:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2013 03:35:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46653 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7H0E-0001Ek-4e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:35:06 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:48666 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7H0A-0001EY-Or for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:35:03 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7H07-0004s5-UA; Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:34:59 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> X-Spook: pink noise Iran colonel ASO Cocaine Waco, Texas class X-Ran: 9u/jg#?zOW7aQ)_Y.NC}'kPjx("($W}[`HE/Gp`w}ihR"P<,8~y)(9UB1T|f1}DI]:Vw;G X-Hue: magenta X-Attribution: GM Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:34:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:21:33 -0400") Message-ID: <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Richard Stallman wrote: > I think it is a very bad idea to run Lisp code because the user > switches windows. I intentionally did not create such hooks, because > their use would lead to confusing behavior which is impossible to > debug. > > The user should be able to switch around between windows without > disturbing them at all. We are not talking about what you think we are talking about (at least, I think so). We are talking about when the input focus enters and leaves Emacs in a GUI environment. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:47:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137597678025729 (code B ref 15029); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:47:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2013 15:46:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47620 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7SPr-0006gu-CM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:46:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:34490 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7SPp-0006gn-Nu for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:46:17 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7SPn-0000KI-Sy; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:46:16 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:46:15 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Glenn Morris on Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:34:59 -0400) References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. We are talking about when the input focus enters and leaves Emacs in a GUI environment. It's the same kind of issue. I don't think Emacs should run any Lisp code when that happens -- it would make things hard to predict. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137597851729728 (code B ref 15029); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2013 16:15:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47645 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7Srr-0007jE-N4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:15:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:35234 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7Srn-0007ik-Fe for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:15:12 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7Srj-0008F1-2g; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:15:07 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: Echelon USCODE Janet Reno Legion of Doom blackjack X-Ran: VqPmYL`7GtW8'5)_+$m>ap3cOWdats"]'gR=pV6_rk(CEzlS:gB!38p.0 (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:46:15 -0400") Message-ID: <8vk3jwcg6t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Richard Stallman wrote: > We are talking about when the input focus enters and leaves Emacs in a > GUI environment. > > It's the same kind of issue. I don't think Emacs should run any Lisp > code when that happens -- it would make things hard to predict. To me, It seems a perfectly reasonable request to want Emacs do certain things (eg save all files) when it loses input focus. As for debugging, same procedure as always: does it happen with emacs -Q? If not, it's something in your config, so bisect .emacs until you find the line that causes it. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: Glenn Morris , 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.1375979884956 (code B ref 15029); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:39:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2013 16:38:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47652 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7TDw-0000FM-31 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:38:04 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:43012) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7TDt-0000Es-1z for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:38:02 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r78GbxXm001229; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:37:59 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id E921FB48E6; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:37:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:37:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:46:15 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4664=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9362 : core <4664> : streams <1015080> : uri <1500783> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) > We are talking about when the input focus enters and leaves Emacs in a > GUI environment. > It's the same kind of issue. I don't think Emacs should run any Lisp > code when that happens -- it would make things hard to predict. Following that same reasoning, we shouldn't have jit-lock. And post-command-hook. And mouse-autoselect-window. And timers. Etc... These all make debugging at times difficult. Yes, these things should be used with care, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't provide them, because they can be very useful. Stefan From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.13759810073959 (code B ref 15029); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:57:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2013 16:56:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7TW3-00011m-4C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:56:47 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:65048) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7TW0-00011N-Ai for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:56:45 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MR800C001FPHT00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 19:56:37 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MR800CQK1QC5PB0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 19:56:37 +0300 (IDT) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 19:56:51 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83txj0t92k.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:46:15 -0400 > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com > > [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider > [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, > [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. > > We are talking about when the input focus enters and leaves Emacs in a > GUI environment. > > It's the same kind of issue. I don't think Emacs should run any Lisp > code when that happens -- it would make things hard to predict. I think that ship sailed a long time ago. E.g., moving the mouse pointer from one frame to another erases the echo area on the former and displays the same message in the latter. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 02:39:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137601589620087 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 02:39:01 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 02:38:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48382 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7cak-0005Du-Sk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:15 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:45082 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7cai-0005Dh-Im for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:12 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7cag-0003uv-Br; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:10 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: <8vk3jwcg6t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Glenn Morris on Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:15:06 -0400) References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8vk3jwcg6t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. To me, It seems a perfectly reasonable request to want Emacs do certain things (eg save all files) when it loses input focus. That is a bizarre thing to do. The right way to handle this is auto-save, which operates whether you change focus or not, and doesn't alter the files someone else will really look at. There is no accounting for tastes, but I don't think a questionable feature should be installed so people can do something so strange. As for debugging, same procedure as always: does it happen with emacs -Q? If not, it's something in your config, so bisect .emacs until you find the line that causes it. I don't think you understand the problem. The problem is how to debug a program when switching windows to the debugger triggers it to do something. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 02:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137601590020104 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 02:39:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 02:38:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48385 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7cap-0005EB-Rw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:45088 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7cam-0005E2-BH for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:16 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7cal-0003wP-BO; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:15 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:15 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:37:58 -0400) References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. > It's the same kind of issue. I don't think Emacs should run any Lisp > code when that happens -- it would make things hard to predict. Following that same reasoning, we shouldn't have jit-lock. And post-command-hook. jit-lock is tolerable because it is used in a very narrow way, for updating text properties. If it were used more broadly, it would be a disaster. post-command-hook is also used in narrow ways, and it doesn't cause anything strange to happen just because you move the mouse. Timers need to be used in a clean way if they are not to cause trouble. In any case, switching windows does not cause timers to do anything. If I understand what mouse-autoselect-window does, it only causes switching windows -- it does not run Lisp code. Yes, these things should be used with care, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't provide them, because they can be very useful. What is a very useful application for running code when the mouse moves out of the Emacs frame? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 02:39:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137601590920128 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 02:39:03 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 02:38:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48388 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7cay-0005EZ-Q3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:29 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:45098 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7cax-0005ES-Ci for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:27 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7can-0003xV-Fz; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:17 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:17 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: <83txj0t92k.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 08 Aug 2013 19:56:51 +0300) References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83txj0t92k.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. I think that ship sailed a long time ago. E.g., moving the mouse pointer from one frame to another erases the echo area on the former and displays the same message in the latter. That happens at a level below Lisp code, so it should not interact with anything. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 07:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137603385626296 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 07:38:01 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 07:37:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48780 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7hGR-0006q1-7n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 03:37:35 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:57364) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7hGM-0006ph-Vj for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 03:37:32 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MR900J006GD2900@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:37:13 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MR900IHK6I1MN80@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:37:13 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:37:29 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <8338qjtiva.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83txj0t92k.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:17 -0400 > From: Richard Stallman > CC: rgm@gnu.org, 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com > > [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider > [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, > [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. > > I think that ship sailed a long time ago. E.g., moving the mouse > pointer from one frame to another erases the echo area on the former > and displays the same message in the latter. > > That happens at a level below Lisp code, so it should not interact > with anything. It certainly interacts with the display engine, so it does belong to the broad class of problems that you are worried about: it makes it harder to debug Emacs. In addition, redisplay can potentially run Lisp. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 07:42:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137603411727047 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 07:42:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 07:41:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48785 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7hKd-000723-Qi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 03:41:56 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:42931) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7hKb-00071L-3f for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 03:41:54 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MR9009006MUUE00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:41:46 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MR9009XW6PMUC00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:41:46 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:42:02 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <831u63tinp.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:15 -0400 > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com > > jit-lock is tolerable because it is used in a very narrow way, for > updating text properties. If it were used more broadly, it would > be a disaster. jit-lock is indeed used more broadly, although in a small number of features for now. So if this is a disaster, it is already here. > post-command-hook is also used in narrow ways, and it doesn't > cause anything strange to happen just because you move the mouse. post-command-hook is used for so many optional features in Emacs that I cannot begin to understand how can you call that "narrow ways". > If I understand what mouse-autoselect-window does, it only causes > switching windows -- it does not run Lisp code. mouse-autoselect-window starts a timer that will run Lisp when it expires. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 13:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137605651215290 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 13:56:01 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 13:55:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49281 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7n9q-0003yT-0Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:55:10 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:58088) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7n9m-0003xk-ID for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:55:07 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFFLd/Nq/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYSFBgNJIgeBsEtkQoDpHqBXoMT X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFFLd/Nq/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYSFBgNJIgeBsEtkQoDpHqBXoMT X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="21213296" Received: from 75-119-243-106.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([75.119.243.106]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 09 Aug 2013 09:54:53 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 6D26863C87; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 09:54:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:54:56 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:15 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > post-command-hook is also used in narrow ways, and it doesn't > cause anything strange to happen just because you move the mouse. When I move the mouse from one frame to another, it generates a `switch-frame' event, which is run by the perfectly normal command handle-switch-frame, including running pre/post-command-hook. > If I understand what mouse-autoselect-window does, it only causes > switching windows -- it does not run Lisp code. Same as above: runs pre/post-command-hook etc... > What is a very useful application for running code when the mouse > moves out of the Emacs frame? Currently used to turn off the blink-cursor timer. Other users want it to (auto-)save a file when its buffer/frame loses focus. Yet others want to change the frame's background color to indicate that it has focus. Stefan From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.13760643303224 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 16:05:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49954 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7pBx-0000ps-3z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:05:29 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:39981 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7pBt-0000pj-PA for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:05:26 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7pBr-00043i-SI; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:05:23 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8vk3jwcg6t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: president chameleon man global Vince Foster Abbas Exon X-Ran: XNW}"Qi5}g3e6s*q3^3|A@Te*0T]&Ktq^r/(?Z{EnBK.R`vP%I4bvF^yAp==W9Q'-i!rjk X-Hue: yellow X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:05:23 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:38:10 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Richard Stallman wrote: > I don't think you understand the problem. The problem is how to debug > a program when switching windows to the debugger triggers it to do > something. I don't go around clicking other parts of my desktop while in the middle of debugging an Emacs problem (nor do I use focus-follows-mouse), so that is not a problem I expect to have. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.13760673289436 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:56:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 16:55:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49994 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7pyJ-0002S4-HS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:55:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:41936 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7pyG-0002Rw-P2 for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:55:25 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7pxq-0002dK-OE; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:54:58 -0400 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:54:58 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: <8338qjtiva.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:37:29 +0300) References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83txj0t92k.fsf@gnu.org> <8338qjtiva.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. > I think that ship sailed a long time ago. E.g., moving the mouse > pointer from one frame to another erases the echo area on the former > and displays the same message in the latter. > > That happens at a level below Lisp code, so it should not interact > with anything. It certainly interacts with the display engine, so it does belong to the broad class of problems that you are worried about: it makes it harder to debug Emacs. It could make it harder to debug Emacs, but won't make it harder to debug your own programs. In addition, redisplay can potentially run Lisp. I don't think displaying a message can run Lisp. However, the main point is that you're making an argument that it's ok to create a nasty problem because there are other such nasty problems. I don't think that argument is valid, even aside from whether those other nasty problems really exist. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.13760673719553 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:57:01 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 16:56:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49998 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7pyz-0002Tx-Qk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:56:10 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:41978 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7pyw-0002Tg-OK for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:56:07 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7pyw-0003GF-5i; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:56:06 -0400 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:56:06 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:54:56 -0400) References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. When I move the mouse from one frame to another, it generates a `switch-frame' event, which is run by the perfectly normal command handle-switch-frame, including running pre/post-command-hook. I just made two frames and verified that moving the mouse from one frame into the other did not switch frames. The selected frame remains selected even when the mouse is in the other. You have to click to switch frames. Notwithstanding that, it is true that use of post-command-hook can cause very confusing and painful behavior of you make a mistake. I think you've gone down a tangent by trying to show that some features in Emacs can be dangerous. So what? Each additional one is still asking for trouble. Especially when they create new kinds of interactions that didn't exist before. These interactions can combine to be even worse than a single one. Currently used to turn off the blink-cursor timer. That seems incorrect. As long as the frame is selected to receive X input events, its cursor should blink. Other users want it to (auto-)save a file when its buffer/frame loses focus. Yet others want to change the frame's background color to indicate that it has focus. They don't seem terribly important. If the solution had no downside, I'd say, "Why not?" But this one has a downside. My judgment about what is likely to cause trouble in Emacs is based on many years of experience maintaining versions of Emacs. It is not mathematically proven, but you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Jan =?UTF-8?Q?Dj=C3=A4rv?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 17:44:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , dmol@gmx.com Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137607022416190 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 17:44:01 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 17:43:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50136 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7qj2-0004D3-6T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 13:43:44 -0400 Received: from mail01.bdtv.se ([176.10.222.34]:55503) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7qj0-0004Cu-18 for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 13:43:43 -0400 Received: (qmail 17191 invoked by uid 89); 9 Aug 2013 17:43:39 -0000 Received: from h-46-59-42-57.na.cust.bahnhof.se (HELO coolsville.localdomain) (boel.djarv@bdtv.se@46.59.42.57) by mail01.bdtv.se with ESMTPA; 9 Aug 2013 17:43:39 -0000 Received: from [172.20.199.13] (unknown [172.20.199.13]) by coolsville.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E219B1A1BCD; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 17:43:33 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Jan =?UTF-8?Q?Dj=C3=A4rv?= In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 19:43:33 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) Hello. 9 aug 2013 kl. 18:56 skrev Richard Stallman : > Currently used to turn off the blink-cursor timer. >=20 > That seems incorrect. As long as the frame is selected > to receive X input events, its cursor should blink. This is not the same thing. Emacs does blink as long as it can receive = X events. When focus is lost it stops blinking, but before implementing = stopping of timers, the timers kept on running for no purpose at all, = except burning CPU cycles and battery time. Jan D. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 18:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137607242724246 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 18:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 18:20:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50199 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7rIX-0006Iz-Ro for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 14:20:26 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:43520) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7rIT-0006IZ-L3 for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 14:20:22 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MRA0000006J7700@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 21:20:15 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MRA00NVY09R4R80@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 21:20:15 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 21:20:32 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83vc3eraj3.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83txj0t92k.fsf@gnu.org> <8338qjtiva.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:54:58 -0400 > From: Richard Stallman > CC: rgm@gnu.org, 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com > > However, the main point is that you're making an argument that it's ok > to create a nasty problem because there are other such nasty problems. No, I'm arguing that the problem is not as nasty as you seem to imply, and that we have dealt with such problems successfully for a long time. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 18:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.137607363426721 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 18:41:01 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 18:40:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50237 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7rbz-0006wt-Rj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 14:40:33 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:44014 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7rbv-0006we-Tt for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 14:40:28 -0400 Received: from [98.143.210.201] (port=52414 helo=ceviche.home) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7rbn-00085X-Po; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 14:40:19 -0400 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 6C6F366084; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 14:40:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 14:40:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:56:06 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) > The selected frame remains selected even when the mouse is in the > other. You have to click to switch frames. That's a property of your window-manager. Mine uses the principle that the focus follows the mouse, so just moving the mouse is enough to select the other frame. > My judgment about what is likely to cause trouble in Emacs is based on > many years of experience maintaining versions of Emacs. It is not > mathematically proven, but you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. While you do have more years of experience, I also have a respectable number of years=A0under my belt ;-) Stefan From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 23:24:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.13760906403613 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 23:24:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 23:24:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50592 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7w2J-0000wC-Kb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:24:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:49529 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7w2G-0000w3-8k for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:23:56 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7w2F-0004M2-AQ; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:23:55 -0400 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:23:55 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:05:23 -0400) References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8vk3jwcg6t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. I don't go around clicking other parts of my desktop while in the middle of debugging an Emacs problem Anyone can accidentally knock the mouse aside. (nor do I use focus-follows-mouse) If the problem is limited to that sort of window management, it will happen to fewer users -- but it is still asking for trouble. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 23:25:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jan =?UTF-8?Q?Dj=E4rv?= Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.13760906613681 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 23:25:01 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 23:24:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50599 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7w2d-0000xF-Hu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:24:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:49573 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7w2a-0000x6-QH for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:24:17 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7w2W-0004SR-FP; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:24:12 -0400 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:24:12 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: (message from Jan =?UTF-8?Q?Dj=E4rv?= on Fri, 9 Aug 2013 19:43:33 +0200) References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. This is not the same thing. Emacs does blink as long as it can receive X events. When focus is lost it stops blinking, but before implementing stopping of timers, the timers kept on running for no purpose at all, except burning CPU cycles and battery time. It should be easy enough for those timers to stop themselves when they find out Emacs doesn't have the focus. Doing this at the level of Lisp code might seem more general. In many situations it is good to be general. In a situation like this, I think specific C code is safer. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 23:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org, dmol@gmx.com Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.13760907053785 (code B ref 15029); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 23:26:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2013 23:25:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50603 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7w3L-0000yx-I6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:25:04 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:49638 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V7w3I-0000yQ-IA for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:25:00 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V7w3H-0004bT-L4; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:24:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 19:24:59 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: <83vc3eraj3.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Fri, 09 Aug 2013 21:20:32 +0300) References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83txj0t92k.fsf@gnu.org> <8338qjtiva.fsf@gnu.org> <83vc3eraj3.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. No, I'm arguing that the problem is not as nasty as you seem to imply, and that we have dealt with such problems successfully for a long time. If the feature is used in a very limited way, it may not become a problem. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 19:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15029 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 15029-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15029.138471656219415 (code B ref 15029); Sun, 17 Nov 2013 19:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 15029) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2013 19:29:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58973 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vi825-000535-FT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:29:21 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:48507 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vi823-00052v-5p for 15029@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:29:19 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vi822-0008HR-LV; Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:29:18 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8vk3jwcg6t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: Craig Livingstone DRM sweep Chobetsu CNCIS INS Ansar X-Ran: e"Uqyr/zK05/}9$bh-H]pt-OJgZDu:kcasoM$a4hp7=_k)'>w;1hTNe8s/K/CslT2p X-Hue: white X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:29:18 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:05:23 -0400") Message-ID: <4hhaba4yk1.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) See patch at http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-11/msg00524.html From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:05:07 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.503) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Ivan Baidakou Subject: bug#15029: closed (Re: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook) Message-ID: References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 15029 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs X-Gnu-PR-Keywords: patch Reply-To: 15029@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 02:25:04 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1384827904-22840-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1384827904-22840-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 15029@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 15029: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D15029 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1384827904-22840-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 15029-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2013 02:24:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60632 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ViazN-0005vK-HP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 21:24:29 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:53624 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ViazL-0005vC-B1 for 15029-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 21:24:27 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ViazK-0006V5-Ms; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 21:24:26 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: 15029-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#15029: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook References: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> <71bo58am8s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8vk3jwcg6t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <4hhaba4yk1.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: Jiang Zemin SRI AFSPC AMW Reno ASIO SEAL Team 6 Consul X-Ran: d0t4x{+IG?ZQSOC=A'y%F3^f"BWHy]yEGQe6X\&=IcR,%ic:[NCL.3L:/v,/k/)[5%mSZ/ X-Hue: blue X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 21:24:26 -0500 In-Reply-To: <4hhaba4yk1.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:29:18 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15029-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) Version: 24.4 New hooks focus-in-hook, focus-out-hook have been added. ------------=_1384827904-22840-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2013 20:34:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41848 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RTr-0001FH-15 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:34:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44054) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKv-0000oT-4H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:25:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKk-0005eq-5S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:24:55 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:51782) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKk-0005ek-0a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:24:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45638) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKd-0006xq-1B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:24:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKU-0005Ya-Q7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:24:42 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:54988) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6RKU-0005YF-Gk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:24:34 -0400 Received: from localhost ([80.94.232.71]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx003) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LjZhg-1Vhy0W1iG0-00bZ7K for ; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 22:24:32 +0200 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 23:21:48 +0300 From: Ivan Baidakou To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.3; feature-request: add window-focus-lost-hook Message-Id: <20130805232148.b0f8363e1c2ab7279f873bee@gmx.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.24.17; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:IQFAbHHmd3rx+BYJaKmN6HJYHYpqTvivnu1ENVQo1cvRgYke89P 1vNO1n2DSGUpov/JURZWjSyaKW1yfEP9DqWJKjwgCmFb3wRWwgCzTAiMW+YflwKdfxrY1aa cvbpkBo9ax1dLtQzycMzaEv10BweRvmalm8b4WjVjuiDKhF3QAxAGar51CqrWs01kr3bqPk d3BKh9174z04ToYeIWmRg== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:34:14 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Hello! Please, add very useful feature: window-focus-lost-hook, which will give the possibility to save all unsaved buffers and no need of typing "C-x C-s", and, for example, the locally loaded html will be automatically refreshed in by browser, just as I switch to it via "ALT-tab" key. That feature is requested by other people too: http://batsov.com/articles/2012/03/08/emacs-tip-number-5-save-buffers-automatically-on-buffer-or-window-switch/ http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1230245/how-to-automatically-save-files-on-lose-focus-in-emacs but neither works for me. Thanks! Best Regards, Ivan Baidakou ------------=_1384827904-22840-1--