From unknown Fri Sep 05 11:02:13 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#14941 <14941@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#14941 <14941@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.3.50; package.el should lighten up wrt version specification Reply-To: bug#14941 <14941@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 18:02:13 +0000 retitle 14941 24.3.50; package.el should lighten up wrt version specificati= on reassign 14941 emacs submitter 14941 Drew Adams severity 14941 minor thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 23 13:38:05 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2013 17:38:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45234 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V1gXF-0003a4-0T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:38:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36856) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V1gXC-0003ZR-Lj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:38:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V1gX6-0002IZ-Ac for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:37:57 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:54556) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V1gS3-0000AQ-Eh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:32:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36150) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V1gRz-0002mq-V4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:32:43 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V1gRw-00007Z-T8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:32:39 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:34793) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V1gRw-00007V-ML for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:32:36 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r6NHWYE8024238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:32:36 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6NHWXDP016741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:32:34 GMT Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6NHWXbn023962 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:32:33 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8b0062be-4eb9-4cfe-a994-5dbdeec4eb93@default> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:32:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.3.50; package.el should lighten up wrt version specification X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) File headers are for human readers too, not just for tools. 1. `package-buffer-info' should treat "Version: " as "Version: 0" `package-buffer-info' has this code, which is the wrong thing to do: (let* ((requires-str (lm-header "package-requires")) ;; Prefer Package-Version; if defined, the package author ;; probably wants us to use it. Otherwise try Version. (pkg-version (or (package-strip-rcs-id (lm-header "package-version")) (package-strip-rcs-id (lm-header "version"))))) (unless pkg-version (error "Package lacks a \"Version\" or \"Package-Version\" header")) A user should be able to use "Version: ", i.e., specify explicitly that there is no version, and have that be treated the same as "Version: 0". Version is not just for package.el. It is a field that conveys versioning info to human readers. An empty Version field can be used to indicate explicitly that the file is not versioned. 2. More generally, package.el should treat the lack of a version spec the same way it currently treats version 0. If Package-Requires specifies "0" for some file, it means that ANY version of that file is OK, and that should apply also to a lack of a version spec for that file. Package-Requires should be able to specify that there is a dependency on a particular file, by name, but any copy of that file will do - any version or any copy that has no version specified. It is important to be able to express this kind of dependency - any foo.el and not any specific version of foo.el - and it in no way limits package.el to allow this. 3. In keeping with #2, package.el should allow Package-Requires, like Version, to lack a version number for a given file, and have that be interpreted as version "0" for that file, meaning that any version of the file will do. IOW, allow this: ;; Package-Requires ((foo.el)) to mean the same as this: ;; Package-Requires ((foo.el "0")) In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2013-07-14 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 113423 lekktu@gmail.com-20130715004922-i67tg2ois14h3fpm Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/binary --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CFLAGS=3D'-O0 -g3' CPPFLAGS=3D'-Ic:/Devel/emacs/include' LDFLAGS=3D'-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 20 18:19:53 2014 Received: (at 14941) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2014 23:19:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34057 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WGcuG-0003xC-8g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 18:19:52 -0500 Received: from r0.smtpout1.alwaysdata.com ([176.31.58.0]:45010) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WGcuE-0003wu-5Y for 14941@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 18:19:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alwaysdata.net; s=ryuslash; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=gcdwPh/rFzfS8s3CtefOa+UfUhw63tszywsi2edwIpE=; b=UhNehmCtaLskqUJZTun9OfLGIMYGVX2/TwKs5RTM/BrU2+5pJ8N6JxlwQc1MniPndGJJzBKJobU7FCW1qXvJxSKFiw6lP7Ru6nUgP98tIeRg2rOlRgYPGXfOUY/lRfjz8A94Dn8jh+GUHYAK5DV+jj18YyCdrJ0nOXOpKjdi96o=; Received: from 78-21-108-183.access.telenet.be ([78.21.108.183] helo=localhost) by smtpout1.alwaysdata.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1WGcu7-0007gV-CU for 14941@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:19:43 +0100 From: Tom Willemse To: 14941@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: bug#14941: [Patch] Lighten up wrt version specification Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:19:42 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-alwaysdata-ID: 110849503 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14941 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Hey, I said I would look at this bug and so I did. Sorry it took me so long to undertake any action on it. The attached merge directive/patch should take care of point #1, the first half of #2 and point #3. Please let me know if you agree, I'll happily fix any use cases you had in mind that still don't work. In regard to the second half of #2, about requiring specific files, instead of packages. How would you have package.el handle these when downloading packages from ELPA or installing a package or file? Would you have them skipped or would requiring a specific file prevent it from being used in the same way? Or would the use have to make sure that file is in their `load-path' before installing the package? What is the use-case you have in mind? Please let me know what you think, any comments, criticisms and considerations would be greatly appreciated. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=package-versions.txt Content-Description: Lighten up, patch # Bazaar merge directive format 2 (Bazaar 0.90) # revision_id: tom@ryuslash.org-20140220224957-aaup04ijncvyccgn # target_branch: bzr://bzr.sv.gnu.org/emacs/trunk/ # testament_sha1: aec87ee7f2e339fadc41ed24fff80aebd511513f # timestamp: 2014-02-20 23:52:58 +0100 # base_revision_id: michael.albinus@gmx.de-20140220182640-\ # jsvhe3qwzk6yylu5 # # Begin patch === modified file 'lisp/ChangeLog' --- lisp/ChangeLog 2014-02-20 14:24:13 +0000 +++ lisp/ChangeLog 2014-02-20 22:49:57 +0000 @@ -1,3 +1,11 @@ +2014-02-20 Tom Willemse + + * emacs-lisp/package.el (package--prepare-dependencies): Default + to version "0" when no version has been specified, but a list is + still used. + (package-buffer-info): If no version header has been specified or + no value has been specified, default to version "0". + 2014-02-20 Michael Albinus * net/tramp.el (ls-lisp-use-insert-directory-program): Declare. === modified file 'lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el' --- lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el 2014-02-12 01:20:34 +0000 +++ lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el 2014-02-20 22:49:57 +0000 @@ -1128,6 +1128,8 @@ ((symbolp dep) `(,dep "0")) ((stringp dep) (error "Invalid requirement specifier: %S" dep)) + ((and (listp dep) (null (cdr dep))) + (list (car dep) "0")) (t dep))) deps)))) @@ -1155,11 +1157,9 @@ ;; probably wants us to use it. Otherwise try Version. (pkg-version (or (package-strip-rcs-id (lm-header "package-version")) - (package-strip-rcs-id (lm-header "version")))) + (package-strip-rcs-id (lm-header "version")) + "0")) (homepage (lm-homepage))) - (unless pkg-version - (error - "Package lacks a \"Version\" or \"Package-Version\" header")) (package-desc-from-define file-name pkg-version desc (if requires-str # Begin bundle IyBCYXphYXIgcmV2aXNpb24gYnVuZGxlIHY0CiMKQlpoOTFBWSZTWW3peRYAAl7fgAA3UHf/914k BIC////wUAV48dSlU9gBpdgoOYACYAAmAAAAAAlECGTE0Kn6p6ajyh6ag2oAGQHqBKCnqaappp7U CND0gAANAeiNANNSg9T1AAAYENGQGQNAwEkhAE0YCA0TZBCRo00yeoMiiqFMLX6tfFGet7RS+ZeX MsMtj500XRXtIQqJJ3iUaOFsMmpKlMwJCec6Fqk5fNukrc3zTNRVQWfulk6mUMi4md8mQaRXUzvi pzg15gMonIGXUvKTNX7UWkBjbOfUxIH2IiSCICYIzccxDzyXEPvuhjMNSwOYwWjHyCDCHd/Ll5ZH nRtAz4lqe7IvI+m4OB7/4Ym/cUG8dIDARmgDyVjOrbyyOKgfHsHyK9suVDXsVZN0DqFyGkxDgZzF JwJ7QEYqHc2gsFCBANqZe73JBbWSIT0EbBqAnfYRkR37jg9uASRpsPm10utQYs1MoHHcS928LkkC g59ryItFv8WUT6KhK8neImgQGbGhcm1ak+cwmXfCSOOewJd0mMxWQVOF9Fko7XSUQZoqmiYVLu70 KgFCAQSZNgI5QH664tAyxSlNomaob6n7vjK1yQ3Mwe5rFCgtedmmUtstHujbRJvXRGIBCAMSSm5g ON5tMTUPhKAwWBSnLUYjuGEDPUgoIqaSFBUEjCx2EQKNpn78yEk5J/Q9gYXvF7TMdOc/GNMzGBxc pHZfknKQhhiDykvU9xWBUOqHGGEo58IqJIOL5GAc88eMBZY8KDU1U8jTHlV+T6uLRgFgWVYF+igO UyytMjaJLoCsweNVaRbaKwqoMRzQK7iqyMQLYRsS6HWaUOFFHUDrzdwqIDgiBdoFCT7kpIMM3Zh2 oalkTe0AiKni7lxsgbzl1zAzw4eqRgFYTVBoIs9UaB6/kxMYvnMp9lSB4u4jWrgiA2mh426GWUp5 PC7egqCvTkVhto5ko8NAJ7dnUzK4Uv79SHCuK4Cch7xAc+iPG55QKiJhF9/R4RoIo0HYv01kURGE QQdeXEaOLxjE0DeSDLWVBaZpp/l77ArMjacysGMBhQLNWUOy7+Y8xx4KpSNnSzjImDeXCuuFYTEw duLwzr9nSWC+DAkONvJGIPq6MfZjA5nXPebyMVRuOS8pgemGRWNlZfGgk4LImRGh39k21M3uexq5 A63YJ3eJdTwDg57FQaEbxf0ZnA5pio7rBBSxf6JEjIYf8B4AVfKIKoih+lJCcE6MJ9CNROJvmVB+ B1QWwtRLknCwAgKB+BjXUfujXOfPgG62LAStnL0dwL4h3AClY3HZMIxRHAYZIkQ5wOEcAlE49bsD OYt3G8yUY6IwI/JLjzDe5ghANEeaxNmBllDpIsEqCSg4DjKqiuKm4VwfwDQg5Eb1BYV/eycN4Til YJrXpcuhyBgcUBb+Lz8kgjjMJcpDWRI/ZIoX6PWHh1iyKGMgONFyPqdGaUyiGCNSigU6p8CS3EP4 UhLl4cOZD0ek0EFBPlrUiQ+XO+CZ0kBEA9RGBOKBsVYTWQtIEVMgjW5ajegoQ4oCyYRNEGwVLk3p ZQiFLs11OhZXqGHM9sMawjvbBjxBOzezTLTHjsLi5FI6ySFEUWbBfcDqlaxxH9KwUzwqPAiMcTfq ESeBskW9HnhxApP5+kxxKgiLA6/C6hqRUYrlzKwMFAR9E8p7cFuVH/i7kinChINvS8iw --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 13 09:35:57 2014 Received: (at 14941-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2014 13:35:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35483 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WO5ng-0005Io-VY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 09:35:57 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:24665) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WO5nZ-0005IZ-Mw for 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 09:35:50 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFFMCppy/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh8BBVYjEAs0EhQYDSSIJMEtkQoDpHqBXoMT X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFFMCppy/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh8BBVYjEAs0EhQYDSSIJMEtkQoDpHqBXoMT X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="51710027" Received: from 76-10-154-114.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.154.114]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Mar 2014 09:35:49 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id D46DD6057F; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 09:35:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Tom Willemse Subject: Re: bug#14941: [Patch] Lighten up wrt version specification Message-ID: References: <8b0062be-4eb9-4cfe-a994-5dbdeec4eb93@default> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 09:35:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Tom Willemse's message of "Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:19:42 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14941-done Cc: 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > @@ -1128,6 +1128,8 @@ > ((symbolp dep) `(,dep "0")) > ((stringp dep) > (error "Invalid requirement specifier: %S" dep)) > + ((and (listp dep) (null (cdr dep))) > + (list (car dep) "0")) > (t dep))) > deps)))) I installed this hunk, but not the other. If a "Version:" header is missing, it should stay as an error, because package.el relies heavily on version numbers. And if the user can write "Version:" she can just as easily write "Version:0". Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 13 11:42:07 2014 Received: (at 14941-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2014 15:42:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36026 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WO7lm-0000sk-Qt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:42:07 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:42698) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WO7lj-0000sb-QP for 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:42:04 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s2DFg2tm030334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 13 Mar 2014 15:42:02 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s2DFg1xB016863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 13 Mar 2014 15:42:01 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2DFg1TI007714; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 15:42:01 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 08:42:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier , Tom Willemse Subject: RE: bug#14941: [Patch] Lighten up wrt version specification References: <8b0062be-4eb9-4cfe-a994-5dbdeec4eb93@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14941-done Cc: 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > I installed this hunk, but not the other. IOW, you did not fix bug #14941. Neither the "this hunk" nor "the other" you refer to are part of the bug 14941 thread; they are part of #15108. Please change bug #14941 to "wont-fix", which correctly reflects its new status. > If a "Version:" header is missing, it should stay as an error, because > package.el relies heavily on version numbers. There is no such "because" - illogical. That package.el relies heavily on version numbers is irrelevant. It need not rely on the presence of a `Version:' specification to nevertheless rely on a version number. It need simply consider lack of an explicit `Version:' spec as specifying version 0. It is reasonable to have a default behavior, and that is the right default value. As for `Version: ' vs `Version: 0': As the bug #14941 report says, an empty version field can indicate - to human readers - that the file is not versioned. For package.el it means only that any version will do when the file is required. But to humans it can indicate more: that the file is not versioned. This is a minor point, but there is no reason for package.el to require the explicit "0". It's a program. It can assume "0" for an empty field here, just as it can assume `Version: 0' for no version spec. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 13 18:12:37 2014 Received: (at 14941-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2014 22:12:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36218 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WODrg-0004oF-Ub for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:12:37 -0400 Received: from mercure.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.24.67]:60433) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WODrf-0004o7-K0 for 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:12:35 -0400 Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A30984DA8; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lechon.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85BB51E5913; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lechon.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 12725B416B; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:12:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#14941: [Patch] Lighten up wrt version specification Message-ID: References: <8b0062be-4eb9-4cfe-a994-5dbdeec4eb93@default> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:12:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 13 Mar 2014 08:42:00 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-2.82, requis 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -2.82, MC_TSTLAST 0.00) X-DIRO-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14941-done Cc: 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Tom Willemse X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > There is no such "because" - illogical. That package.el relies heavily > on version numbers is irrelevant. Of course it's relevant. It means that unversioned packages are (very) rare. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 13 19:57:14 2014 Received: (at 14941-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2014 23:57:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36243 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WOFUv-00080D-1u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 19:57:13 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:41786) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WOFUr-000801-9q for 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 19:57:09 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s2DNv7Qf027731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:57:07 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s2DNv4rh012272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:57:04 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2DNv33L004237; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:57:03 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:57:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier Subject: RE: bug#14941: [Patch] Lighten up wrt version specification References: <8b0062be-4eb9-4cfe-a994-5dbdeec4eb93@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14941-done Cc: 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Tom Willemse X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > There is no such "because" - illogical. That package.el relies heavily > > on version numbers is irrelevant. > > Of course it's relevant. It means that unversioned packages are (very) > rare. Once again you've distorted things by cutting out the context and the argument. An unfortunate MO. You claimed that BECAUSE package.el relies heavily on version numbers it NEEDS explicit `Version:' specs as well. That is the invalid argument I flagged. As you are well aware, I'm sure. It need not rely on the presence of a `Version:' specification to nevertheless rely on a version number. It need simply consider lack of an explicit `Version:' spec as specifying version 0. And now you make another invalid argument: > [That package.el relies heavily on version numbers] MEANS that > unversioned packages are (very) rare. It of course means no such thing. Perhaps you are really trying to say that BECAUSE package.el requires explicit version specs, packages without them are rare? That would be a valid argument, but irrelevant - see above: versioned (for package.el) need not imply an explicit version spec. (And as I said, that package.el needs a version (explicit or by default) for its own use does not imply that humans might not consider a given file otherwise unversioned.) Finally, another invalid argument: You now use the fact that you see few headers with spec `Version: 0', and few with no `Version:' spec, as evidence that there would also be few such even if package did not require a non-blank `Version:' spec. That doesn't follow either. Obviously, if you require every package to be painted blue then you will see, as a result, mainly - no, only - blue packages. Again, please classify bug #14941 as "wont-fix", since your decision was not to fix it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 14 09:18:06 2014 Received: (at 14941-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Mar 2014 13:18:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36555 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WORzx-0000MU-FO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Mar 2014 09:18:05 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:3508) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WORzv-0000ML-3K for 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Mar 2014 09:18:03 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlEJABK/CFFMCppy/2dsb2JhbABEvgsEBHsXc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOkeoFegxM X-IPAS-Result: AlEJABK/CFFMCppy/2dsb2JhbABEvgsEBHsXc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOkeoFegxM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="52064390" Received: from 76-10-154-114.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([76.10.154.114]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 14 Mar 2014 09:18:02 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 4B137AE1F9; Fri, 14 Mar 2014 09:18:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#14941: [Patch] Lighten up wrt version specification Message-ID: References: <8b0062be-4eb9-4cfe-a994-5dbdeec4eb93@default> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 09:18:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:57:06 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14941-done Cc: 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Tom Willemse X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > Once again you've distorted things by cutting out the context and the > argument. An unfortunate MO. Sorry, but it's just like TV: you have to condense your message to be short enough hat it fits in my attention span. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 16 18:15:10 2014 Received: (at 14941-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Mar 2014 22:15:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38448 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WPJKn-0005Z4-3s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:15:09 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:27057) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WPJKj-0005Yu-GI for 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:15:06 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s2GMF47I002634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 16 Mar 2014 22:15:04 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2GMF264002608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 16 Mar 2014 22:15:02 GMT Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2GMF1qP029928; Sun, 16 Mar 2014 22:15:01 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 15:15:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier Subject: RE: bug#14941: [Patch] Lighten up wrt version specification References: <8b0062be-4eb9-4cfe-a994-5dbdeec4eb93@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14941-done Cc: 14941-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Tom Willemse X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > Once again you've distorted things by cutting out the context and the > > argument. An unfortunate MO. >=20 > Sorry, but it's just like TV: you have to condense your message to be > short enough hat it fits in my attention span. You mean like this? (3rd attempt) - Again, please classify bug #14941 as "wont-fix", since your decision was not to fix it. From unknown Fri Sep 05 11:02:13 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator