From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:00:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 14914 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 14914@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.137427858830648 (code B ref -1); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:04:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2013 00:03:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38483 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0Kdf-0007yF-Ue for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:03:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60680) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0Kdc-0007xV-Sy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:03:05 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0KdW-0005LL-SI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:02:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:53193) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0KdW-0005LH-PX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:02:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34169) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0KdV-0003qi-U3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:02:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0KdV-0005L6-1R for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:02:57 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:25989) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0KdU-0005L1-R3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:02:56 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r6K02s3Z030222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:02:55 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6K02s6v004654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:02:54 GMT Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6K02s5w004651 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:02:54 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 17:02:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) The menu item *toggles* the state. It should not be called `Hide Details'. Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the current state. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2013-07-14 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 113423 lekktu@gmail.com-20130715004922-i67tg2ois14h3fpm Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/binary --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CFLAGS=3D'-O0 -g3' CPPFLAGS=3D'-Ic:/Devel/emacs/include' LDFLAGS=3D'-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib'' From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:00:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' Resent-From: Leo Liu Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 02:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14914 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 14914@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 14914-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14914.137428773728324 (code B ref 14914); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 02:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 14914) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2013 02:35:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38626 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0N1E-0007Mi-AJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 22:35:37 -0400 Received: from mail-pa0-f41.google.com ([209.85.220.41]:44643) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0N19-0007MC-JP for 14914@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 22:35:32 -0400 Received: by mail-pa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id bj3so5086819pad.14 for <14914@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 19:35:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:face:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=Asm3DEW+nWM2E7ydUbU8OA1OaPNVP6aJ1DGMlo8+Cc0=; b=IstmIYAxFQxX2NaCf21Ul+uG5iArGc6mEHz4G/HvUFwsRd9DjTxNsWVXa2UZRy/JAN uzvaAsyiXUaPv3mxDmEGSUvnu+XGKeoRiu9HkN7oIUrbAUm4CWXdmiJ/YmUBwUCTSxHq a010MMIRlFCWlbsCXAaualJ7dhK9egGdT2qWvPbsKgAE7x5vomzStcIMKOdwvuUPBb1q CHOwhFuRfeUEH8m+QnK0DCTmckAm119y6fgxfiErZUm7la3QlMF6D8VUgWD2JhyuRvRd rBSGy+d5n3RLXqLONsJRnY3Z3P+s8EjiQCoCtqLkob118JoQci3yWt/upS+NFxTzBM/q gKFw== X-Received: by 10.68.226.7 with SMTP id ro7mr20097754pbc.72.1374287725429; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 19:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Zeuss-MacBook.local ([182.48.101.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id lk9sm25546682pab.2.2013.07.19.19.35.22 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 19 Jul 2013 19:35:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Leo Liu References: Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACgAAAAoBAMAAAB+0KVeAAAAGFBMVEUKDAg1NjRWV1V9fnyg op/DxcLk5uP8/voi63ReAAAACXBIWXMAAAWJAAAFiQFtaJ36AAAAB3RJTUUH1goZAgAz00bgXgAA AeVJREFUKM9lk0Fz2jAQhQXJD3CCO70CmcC1YMtcWyTZ14Bl69xats4N9r6/3zWQBlodNKNPu/s0 b1cCQFuZGpfVVh3vAvBJolIXRkapSuoRUtIdFyo1Y5xSdlAj7OtvD1XnXxmWRi+eWgcxyCed1lVV B1CrKyujMoi+eLA5kU1SsjoHlW+nQjTtFxk4MXgrOxvIqzoTZR8XgPaLl419zgsMaSGFPiUOZCIh thsx5Xy9NsK8Kwf/JoQgMxcVJ301HKkcSWaT0O7FY056J4U9xcYfnmVXG4801lW6lqwu2nKFZoHC HuzvaTVndZ+LaRQgZdthXw1cpynEkLEwyFHXk/aIxNQ6QeooJuzPMB+wn+D7JJNsiCcVA13/A3h/ xE9J+WidpAwoYNmRFwyvSRhNVtsdaAewzZZP5uw82QL9+tyNfocyP0McAzICUr5Mk9RdIjWasUNx aIIt6NK4ZtXIMdfMQt3nuMAyWbLI4DqZ4xPq/ag8jPond4XU/cLuOgw6XCFX/YCUfcDAMMH58fD4 G9kDchwfqVefkBwup2uZM+Q4WhJt5jN3AxXCsaS2yXEDuWgS8VOzW0gFjhEPmLyFMKBFaLb1HRwc DiaKwx0EeTMRYnYPQRW3PP4HApvlMv0PttX5v/D6Aws3IOSEwzmLAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 10:35:14 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 19 Jul 2013 17:02:53 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (OS X 10.8.4) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 2013-07-20 08:02 +0800, Drew Adams wrote: > Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change > dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the > current state. Is 'Toggle Details' acceptable? Leo From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:00:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 04:13:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14914 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Leo Liu Cc: 14914@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 14914-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14914.137429353212406 (code B ref 14914); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 04:13:02 +0000 Received: (at 14914) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2013 04:12:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0OWh-0003E1-LT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:12:12 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:38266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0OWf-0003DW-GD for 14914@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:12:09 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r6K4C209029476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 04:12:03 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6K4C2Nu019862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 04:12:02 GMT Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6K4C29H019840; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 04:12:02 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <586b70c0-9e15-4b71-a798-c815b9834ed6@default> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:12:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) > > Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should chang= e > > dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the > > current state. >=20 > Is 'Toggle Details' acceptable? How do you toggle a detail? What does it mean? `Toggle Hiding Details' (or `Toggle Showing Details') might be OK. `Show/Hide Details' reflects the `Show/Hide' submenu of `Options'. `Hide/UnHide Details' reflects item `Hide/UnHide Subdir' of the `Subdir' menu in Dired (but UnHide is bad as written, for two reasons). I prefer `Show/Hide Details' or `Hide/Show Details' (or `Show or Hide Details' etc.), but the main point is that this item either shows hidden details or hides the details if shown. It does not just hide the details. From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:00:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 04:17:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14914 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Leo Liu Cc: 14914@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams Received: via spool by 14914-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14914.137429376713064 (code B ref 14914); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 04:17:02 +0000 Received: (at 14914) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2013 04:16:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38770 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0OaU-0003Oc-GI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:16:06 -0400 Received: from mail-pd0-f169.google.com ([209.85.192.169]:52590) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0OaS-0003Nw-BB for 14914@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:16:04 -0400 Received: by mail-pd0-f169.google.com with SMTP id y10so4950166pdj.0 for <14914@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:15:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=agRj+g1Nur/yM5u5R/0WlOg0ahTqxYi3RdDqh0BGcDg=; b=Q25iHJNx52M+EfBMJV8LPic1HKSSCbKWieLEAAfDCew+tybrOlSa+gpOHtrB/layHQ qwqB/tBcxcmh+qZT4JwM7EkHYI4/svnPAKyysdlj3wc2U8HEJewCn542m2JUdrdhm/0n Cn8z9/5RM3cLlZTTah9bTjnzrttIdQHfru+kq1rd4N4nTF/w+I6u0ZKfvtwg+LEfIyan LGmN2Cl7jwLZ67V0rk49679AQO9Kj0eXp/MBKhn7N4MsndjHMVdTU1h/N02XvZIoxoPv qAHA1G/r5LkXgS9JqOkFMJrU0MzEn/3diAoiT8EfGGBiSb7HJpnhPsh7MdcmH+ma4I8/ oO+A== X-Received: by 10.66.217.195 with SMTP id pa3mr21508914pac.120.1374293758459; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from debian-6.05 ([115.242.186.163]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id is3sm16546329pbc.25.2013.07.19.21.15.55 for (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:15:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 09:47:30 +0530 In-Reply-To: (Leo Liu's message of "Sat, 20 Jul 2013 10:35:14 +0800") Message-ID: <87y591eug5.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Leo Liu writes: > On 2013-07-20 08:02 +0800, Drew Adams wrote: >> Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change >> dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the >> current state. > > Is 'Toggle Details' acceptable? [=E2=9C=93] Show details > Leo From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:00:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14914 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K , Leo Liu Cc: 14914@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 14914-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14914.137433522829988 (code B ref 14914); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 14914) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2013 15:47:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39719 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0ZND-0007nc-C6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:47:07 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:28844) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0ZNA-0007my-Kt for 14914@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:47:05 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r6KFkwb3027920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:46:58 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6KFkvEp002676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:46:57 GMT Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6KFkvSE002863; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:46:57 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 08:46:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <87y591eug5.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87y591eug5.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) > [=E2=9C=93] Show details I almost suggested that too (but with title case: `Show Details'). I probably should have mentioned it. I did not because of the considerations below, but I'm glad you have brought it up now. I have no objection to that, but in that case we should perhaps do likewise for other toggles in Dired, such as `Toggle Image Thumbnails in This Buffer' (which also happens to be a bad name, IMO). Another consideration is that the use of a check box for a toggle often corresponds to an actual user option, i.e., a variable that one can customize. And in fact, I believe, that was the original sense of menu `Options', hence the name. There are notable exceptions, such as `Tool-bar' on `Options' > `Show/Hide', which do not correspond to options (and which perhaps should not be on menu `Options'?). Another consideration is perhaps that, so far, menu `Options', which is a main place where we use such check boxes, seems to be limited to global toggles, not buffer-local ones (didn't check them all though). Likewise menu `Printing', which is another place where we use the check boxes heavily. However, Dired menu `Immediate' does have the buffer-specific `Toggle Image Thumbnails in This Buffer'. I don't know what the general policy/guideline is, if there is one, wrt the use of check boxes. Should they be limited to user options? Should they be limited to behavior that is global and not buffer-specific? Dunno. Should we perhaps have a visual convention that makes clear whether a particular toggle (a) is global or local and (b) corresponds to an option or not? Without that, users need to use `C-h k' or mouseover :help to get more info about an item, and unfortunately such info does not always answer the question because it was written in a context where the answer was clear enough without being explicit. In sum, I would be OK with a `Show Details' check box on the Dired `Immediate' menu, provided those who set the guidelines ;-) think it fits wrt the above considerations (i.e., that it is OK that it is for a minor mode, with no associated user option, and that it is OK that it is buffer-local). I agree that having a check box makes clear that the item is a toggle. That is a decided advantage, making for quicker locating and identifying. My only hesitation is the lack of clarity for users wrt whether the toggle is for a customizable variable and whether it is buffer-local or global. Thanks again for bringing up the check-box question in this context. From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:00:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14914: bug#15799: 24.3.50; dired-hide-details-mode: Provide default key binding Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 17:37:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14914 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 14914@debbugs.gnu.org, 15799@debbugs.gnu.org, Jambunathan K Received: via spool by 14914-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14914.13835865643445 (code B ref 14914); Mon, 04 Nov 2013 17:37:01 +0000 Received: (at 14914) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2013 17:36:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34443 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VdO4I-0000tJ-OY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2013 12:36:03 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:32055) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VdO4E-0000sT-OW; Mon, 04 Nov 2013 12:35:59 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id rA4HZpcf012377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Nov 2013 17:35:52 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rA4HZoSC009955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 4 Nov 2013 17:35:51 GMT Received: from abhmt107.oracle.com (abhmt107.oracle.com [141.146.116.59]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rA4HZomc023725; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 17:35:50 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8b3b095a-02b4-4e25-87b4-3db926df40e3@default> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:35:50 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87fvrc8u5y.fsf@gmail.com> <51c48394-b3ae-4403-bad7-00f62f85cfb9@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > Thanks. For #14914, there's no doubt for me that we should use > a "[=E2=9C=93] Hide details" menu entry. Sounds good to me (except it should be title case: `Hide Details'). > >> Also, wouldn't it make sense to try and bring hide-details > >> "closer" to the dired-omit facilities? > > > > Definitely not. No relation. Completely different uses. >=20 > Of course, they're different, but I assume the @ was chosen because > it's also used for things like outline-minor-mode, i.e. for other > features that hide parts of the buffer. `@' was proposed by Jambunathan, not I. I have no special objection to `@' instead of `(', however. But I'm not convinced that it is good to confuse hiding stuff in Dired with outline-minor-mode hiding. > So, maybe @ should be a prefix key for "hiding stuff", in which we > can place key bindings for "omit" and for "details". I don't object to that. As long as the two, hiding columns and hiding rows, are kept clear and separate, no problem. But there is really more to it than that. There are at least these hide/show commands in Dired: $ (`dired-hide-subdir') M-$ (`dired-hide-all') ( (`dired-hide-details-mode') M-o (`dired-omit-mode') It is good that each of these is quick, but yes, we could put them all on a prefix key. In that case, `M-o', `M-$', and `$' are also good candidates for the prefix key. We could have, for example: M-o s (`dired-hide-subdir') - `s' for subdi M-o S (`dired-hide-all') - `S' for subdirs M-o c (`dired-hide-details-mode') - `c' for columns M-o r (`dired-omit-mode') - `r' for rows No Shift key needed for them, except for the one that boosts `s'. FWIW, Dired+ adds these commands, which could also be added to the list, perhaps with these bindings: M-o m (`diredp-omit-marked') - `m' for marked M-o u (`diredp-omit-unmarked') - `u' for unmarked Here are their (trivial) definitions: (defun diredp-omit-marked () "Omit lines of marked files. Return the number of lines omitted." (interactive) (let ((old-modified-p (buffer-modified-p)) count) (when (interactive-p) (message "Omitting marked lines...")) (setq count (dired-do-kill-lines nil "Omitted %d line%s.")) (set-buffer-modified-p old-modified-p) ; So no `%*' appear in mode-line= . count)) (defun diredp-omit-unmarked () "Omit lines of unmarked files. Return the number of lines omitted." (interactive) (let ((old-modified-p (buffer-modified-p)) count) (dired-toggle-marks) (message "Omitting unmarked lines...") (setq count (diredp-omit-marked)) (dired-toggle-marks) ; Marks all except `.', `..' (set-buffer-modified-p old-modified-p) ; So no `%*' appear in mode-line= . count)) From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:00:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14914: bug#15799: 24.3.50; dired-hide-details-mode: Provide default key binding Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 07:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14914 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 15799@debbugs.gnu.org, 14914@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier Received: via spool by 14914-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14914.138372306517080 (code B ref 14914); Wed, 06 Nov 2013 07:32:02 +0000 Received: (at 14914) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Nov 2013 07:31:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36596 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VdxZu-0004RH-O0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2013 02:31:05 -0500 Received: from mail-pb0-f52.google.com ([209.85.160.52]:64388) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VdxZo-0004QX-0S; Wed, 06 Nov 2013 02:30:57 -0500 Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id rr4so2147337pbb.25 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 23:30:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=H4RAoA1eCKnap8C/4qI5yBEKVnAdr7dtI1wG1KoWdWw=; b=0BDPUwT9X2X9ei0b8sReemUG18+jju0hOv47u3nA5rcvZoHrH8rpkG4gyQWGuMw/8n ZM4c0GRL4TVjmFsNwyLC1HxNnYWI3e+f7kQpLiLMiUFb57jnJjxi1tdpAKkYY559gJEF PDG1M+Jd418GMBNjH4N0rB48260yYNIKIgPdJL5VfSEKpNXdr9QGK0qUDP3IRfp67ND6 78U2AVFPMrfZSmyWD/6MDGjVmczmMZZ3jmN+9aZkwbbzTRFFseKq4PXyjr8oabSomzxT wFRgq8lRXE19kryRYOf0jWzT9zMT0hPIKtK/AhFVfwNrsNan59UHGFTmVLXNOpumjRRk Jnkw== X-Received: by 10.67.23.227 with SMTP id id3mr2448291pad.101.1383723049340; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 23:30:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from debian-6.05 ([115.241.50.187]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id uw6sm39314560pbc.8.2013.11.05.23.30.45 for (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Nov 2013 23:30:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jambunathan K References: <87fvrc8u5y.fsf@gmail.com> <51c48394-b3ae-4403-bad7-00f62f85cfb9@default> <8b3b095a-02b4-4e25-87b4-3db926df40e3@default> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 13:01:21 +0530 In-Reply-To: <8b3b095a-02b4-4e25-87b4-3db926df40e3@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:35:50 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <8761s6x9yu.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) >> Of course, they're different, but I assume the @ was chosen because >> it's also used for things like outline-minor-mode, i.e. for other >> features that hide parts of the buffer. > > `@' was proposed by Jambunathan, not I. I have no special objection > to `@' instead of `(', however. I do object to '('. Partly because I am tempted to think ')' will undo whatever it's other pair did. > But there is really more to it than that. There are at least these > hide/show commands in Dired: > > $ (`dired-hide-subdir') > M-$ (`dired-hide-all') > ( (`dired-hide-details-mode') > M-o (`dired-omit-mode') > > It is good that each of these is quick, but yes, we could put them > all on a prefix key. In that case, `M-o', `M-$', and `$' are also > good candidates for the prefix key. $ is indeed better than @. Remember `$' is used in conjunction with selective display. > We could have, for example: > > M-o s (`dired-hide-subdir') - `s' for subdi > M-o S (`dired-hide-all') - `S' for subdirs > M-o c (`dired-hide-details-mode') - `c' for columns > M-o r (`dired-omit-mode') - `r' for rows I object to M-o. The verb `Omit' is generally not used. It has bad connotations. (My mom will spank me if I omitted something) Let's omit omit and stick with show or hide. From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:00:16 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Drew Adams Subject: bug#14914: closed (Re: bug#14914: bug#15799: 24.3.50; dired-hide-details-mode: Provide default key binding) Message-ID: References: X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 14914 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 14914@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 08:42:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1603874522-8299-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1603874522-8299-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Sh= ow Details' which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 14914@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 14914: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D14914 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1603874522-8299-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 14914-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2020 08:42:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47049 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kXh1t-00029c-4D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 04:42:01 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-f47.google.com ([209.85.218.47]:46400) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kXh1r-00029N-1s for 14914-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 04:41:59 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-f47.google.com with SMTP id t25so5984898ejd.13 for <14914-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:41:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WdRgN8MQesWTLgx16Ujsln3zjD1MR8enTGRzQVThLfA=; b=tsC6BQR91cth3v8FwIU15sC9PG5huIn1dnsnRTnDHXfLcng221x/67jcmaWO2BqMmq 8A+qDUfKFAxzBWpGg+CcXtUal661Hg7ofzMF9raeVoljg0O0F83lUkis82iy5v3crSRP F484dDFuOc2bm5NKvE0qc7O0+Mw/evrA3q+vvY3WOUoyzy3VpaeIlXIRw82iIlQXQ+lu 7fr7X4vhDDOilwKEmMWhDvVXtE8EIIaV9G+F9oam8IVDaRsCVMgnVKNhql4wi853X67H IRAO0dikT1WuaOeBPBZ45X4DepCUYlvyBjAXIr5W1YA4fVqYox2jP2jVSbokUqQFz3Yh iNgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530XS5id5Z8qwphXvMD+yar3CEa/nI6mRr8cscB3sf6Z8QJByRWX ra8Bev2F+BNSfsuIvZZG8JMBTPeA8BGtAaYgXv0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzTrRDpQXLJEle0TW1OFiIhPlBYUwmqAokMZvU5/qsrlk3+J/7gug1dKfdPtYrwRW9U0dusetWo9r9AqihQxnc= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:1246:: with SMTP id u6mr6445663eja.432.1603874513253; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:41:52 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <8b3b095a-02b4-4e25-87b4-3db926df40e3@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:35:50 -0800 (PST)") References: <87fvrc8u5y.fsf@gmail.com> <51c48394-b3ae-4403-bad7-00f62f85cfb9@default> <8b3b095a-02b4-4e25-87b4-3db926df40e3@default> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:41:52 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#14914: bug#15799: 24.3.50; dired-hide-details-mode: Provide default key binding To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14914-done Cc: 14914-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Drew Adams writes: >> Thanks. For #14914, there's no doubt for me that we should use >> a "[=E2=9C=93] Hide details" menu entry. > > Sounds good to me (except it should be title case: `Hide Details'). This is now the case on current master, so I'm closing this bug. ------------=_1603874522-8299-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2013 00:03:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38483 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0Kdf-0007yF-Ue for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:03:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60680) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0Kdc-0007xV-Sy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:03:05 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0KdW-0005LL-SI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:02:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:53193) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0KdW-0005LH-PX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:02:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34169) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0KdV-0003qi-U3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:02:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0KdV-0005L6-1R for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:02:57 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:25989) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0KdU-0005L1-R3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:02:56 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r6K02s3Z030222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:02:55 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6K02s6v004654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:02:54 GMT Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6K02s5w004651 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:02:54 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 17:02:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) The menu item *toggles* the state. It should not be called `Hide Details'. Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the current state. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2013-07-14 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 113423 lekktu@gmail.com-20130715004922-i67tg2ois14h3fpm Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/binary --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CFLAGS=3D'-O0 -g3' CPPFLAGS=3D'-Ic:/Devel/emacs/include' LDFLAGS=3D'-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib'' ------------=_1603874522-8299-1--