From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:11:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14875: 24.3.50; doc of :variable in `define-minor-mode' - lamentable Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 20:54:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 14875 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 14875@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.137392160220130 (code B ref -1); Mon, 15 Jul 2013 20:54:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jul 2013 20:53:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56572 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Uyplp-0005Eb-4C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:53:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60908) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Uyplk-0005E5-HX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:53:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Uyple-0001e0-2t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:53:11 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:48933) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Uypld-0001du-VI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:53:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34373) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Uyplb-0004cs-QZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:53:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Uypla-0001ck-He for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:53:07 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:24064) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Uypla-0001bv-9h for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:53:06 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r6FKr34Q002523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 20:53:04 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6FKr3D9011152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 20:53:03 GMT Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6FKr2aQ011147 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 20:53:03 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:53:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) 1. Both (elisp) `Defining Minor Modes' and the doc string say the same thing, verbatim. The manual should explain better. 2. The description/explanation is incomplete/confusing/gobbledygook, at best. It says that PLACE can be a "generalized variable", without giving any explanation of what a generalized variable is, and without cross-referencing any doc that describes such a thing. It says that PLACE can also be a cons (GET . SET). In this case, it says that "SET is a function that takes one argument, the new state, and sets it". Huh? It takes the NEW state as argument? If so, where did that new state come from? And then it "sets" the new state? Huh? Does it just set it to what it already was (the "new state" argument)? Or does "set" here perhaps imply setting the value to non-nil (as in setting a bit)? It's not clear at all what the SET of (GET . SET) (1) accepts as arg, (2) does as its main (standard) effect, or (3) returns as a value (if that matters). It says that if PLACE is specified as a variable then "this function does not define a MODE variable (nor any of the terms used in :variable)". Huh? Does "variable" here include the "generalized variable" case? Does "this function" refer to the SET function of the preceding sentence? Or does it refer to the minor-mode function? What on Earth does it mean for the function (either of those functions, or whatever function is meant) to not define "any of the terms used in :variable"? I honestly understand almost nothing here. :variable does not define any of the terms used in :variable? Huh? Please, please. Users deserve better. Give us a break. Please clear this up. 3. And as is too often the case, the "For example,..." at the end gives a too-trivial example that shows none of the things that someone might really have a question about. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2013-07-01 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 113246 lekktu@gmail.com-20130701165437-ea20s94hqwp3ttaj Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/usr --enable-checking CFLAGS=3D'-O0 -g3' CPPFLAGS=3D'-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1 -I/c/usr/include'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 19 15:51:52 2015 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Oct 2015 19:51:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57075 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoGTI-0002qZ-Hm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:51:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41685) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoGTG-0002qR-IB for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:51:50 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoGTF-0006DW-GH for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:51:50 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47580) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoGTF-0006DS-D7 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:51:49 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoGTE-0002Dz-HZ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:51:48 -0400 Subject: control message for bug 21709 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:51:48 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). 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