From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:05:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14843: 24.3.50; `line-move', `line-move-visual' need doc strings Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:42:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 14843 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.13735572665394 (code B ref -1); Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:42:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2013 15:41:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48057 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxIzR-0001Ow-QT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:41:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44217) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxIzQ-0001OE-CC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:41:04 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UxIzJ-00063D-Uj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:40:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:48001) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UxIzJ-000638-RW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:40:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45924) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UxIzI-0003Wy-9i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:40:57 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UxIzF-00062T-M6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:40:56 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:34606) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UxIzF-00062M-DM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:40:53 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r6BFepRl014098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:40:52 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6BFeosL018942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:40:51 GMT Received: from abhmt109.oracle.com (abhmt109.oracle.com [141.146.116.61]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6BFeoGI025855 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:40:50 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) These functions, especially `line-move', are used all over the place. They need doc strings, with complete descriptions of their parameters. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2013-07-01 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 113246 lekktu@gmail.com-20130701165437-ea20s94hqwp3ttaj Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/usr --enable-checking CFLAGS=3D'-O0 -g3' CPPFLAGS=3D'-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1 -I/c/usr/include'' From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:05:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14843: 24.3.50; `line-move', `line-move-visual' need doc strings Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 18:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14843 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 14843-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14843.137356758428381 (code B ref 14843); Thu, 11 Jul 2013 18:34:01 +0000 Received: (at 14843) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2013 18:33:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48377 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxLfr-0007Ne-KQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 14:33:03 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:59172) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxLfo-0007Mx-M9 for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 14:33:01 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MPS00K00AX4QB00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 21:32:48 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MPS00K7WBIOMA80@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 21:32:48 +0300 (IDT) Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 21:32:41 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83sizl54mu.fsf@gnu.org> References: X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > These functions, especially `line-move', are used all over the place. > They need doc strings, with complete descriptions of their parameters. They are internal functions. Under what circumstances did you need to use them directly? Why wasn't next/previous-line enough? From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:05:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14843: 24.3.50; `line-move', `line-move-visual' need doc strings Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 18:51:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14843 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 14843-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14843.137356861830688 (code B ref 14843); Thu, 11 Jul 2013 18:51:01 +0000 Received: (at 14843) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2013 18:50:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48393 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxLwY-0007yu-4r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 14:50:18 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:26385) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxLwV-0007yU-SP for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 14:50:16 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r6BIo8Fa016135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 11 Jul 2013 18:50:09 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6BIo71d024356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jul 2013 18:50:08 GMT Received: from abhmt109.oracle.com (abhmt109.oracle.com [141.146.116.61]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6BIo734024349; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 18:50:07 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <43758336-46c0-42cf-a16d-6412c5e003d8@default> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:50:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <> <<83sizl54mu.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83sizl54mu.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) > > These functions, especially `line-move', are used all over the place. > > They need doc strings, with complete descriptions of their parameters. >=20 > They are internal functions. Under what circumstances did you need to > use them directly? Why wasn't next/previous-line enough? Read what I wrote: they "are used all over the place". In the Emacs code alone, not to mention in 3rd-party code. They are not "internal" to simple.el. They are not internal to anything. Reality. From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:05:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14843: 24.3.50; `line-move', `line-move-visual' need doc strings Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 19:08:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14843 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 14843-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14843.1373569627452 (code B ref 14843); Thu, 11 Jul 2013 19:08:01 +0000 Received: (at 14843) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2013 19:07:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48410 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxMCp-00007C-05 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:07:07 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:37034) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxMCl-00006a-Eq for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:07:05 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MPS00900D29SJ00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 22:06:48 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MPS009TTD3BGS90@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 22:06:48 +0300 (IDT) Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 22:06:41 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <43758336-46c0-42cf-a16d-6412c5e003d8@default> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83r4f46hmm.fsf@gnu.org> References: <43758336-46c0-42cf-a16d-6412c5e003d8@default> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 11:50:06 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > These functions, especially `line-move', are used all over the place. > > > They need doc strings, with complete descriptions of their parameters. > > > > They are internal functions. Under what circumstances did you need to > > use them directly? Why wasn't next/previous-line enough? > > Read what I wrote: they "are used all over the place". In the Emacs code > alone, not to mention in 3rd-party code. They are not "internal" to > simple.el. They are not internal to anything. Reality. That an internal function is used all over the Emacs code is a small wonder. It just means someone was smart enough to capture a frequent need of many features. As for 3rd-party code, if you have such code, or happen to know why line-move was used instead of next/previous-line, please tell. From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:05:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14843: 24.3.50; `line-move', `line-move-visual' need doc strings Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 20:53:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14843 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 14843-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14843.137357595514347 (code B ref 14843); Thu, 11 Jul 2013 20:53:01 +0000 Received: (at 14843) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2013 20:52:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxNqs-0003jL-Kn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 16:52:34 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:49117) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxNqq-0003ir-1p for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 16:52:32 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r6BKqPDI004124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 11 Jul 2013 20:52:25 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6BKqObM001480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jul 2013 20:52:25 GMT Received: from abhmt109.oracle.com (abhmt109.oracle.com [141.146.116.61]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6BKqOsR010536; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 20:52:24 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <83e00f63-4458-4901-8816-4875f599d9cc@default> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 13:52:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <<43758336-46c0-42cf-a16d-6412c5e003d8@default>> <<83r4f46hmm.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83r4f46hmm.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) > > > > These functions, especially `line-move', are used all over the plac= e. > > > > They need doc strings, with complete descriptions of their paramete= rs. > > > > > > They are internal functions. Under what circumstances did you need t= o > > > use them directly? Why wasn't next/previous-line enough? > > > > Read what I wrote: they "are used all over the place". In the Emacs co= de > > alone, not to mention in 3rd-party code. They are not "internal" to > > simple.el. They are not internal to anything. Reality. >=20 > That an internal function is used all over the Emacs code is a small > wonder. It just means someone was smart enough to capture a frequent > need of many features. And each person who wrote such Emacs code needed to figure out for herself what the parameters mean (or not bother). Perhaps it is also a small wonder that NONE of the uses of `line-move', including those in simple.el itself, make ANY USE of the additional parameters introduced in Emacs 22 (and not used even in 22). An indication, perhaps, that even Emacs Dev could use a little Emacs self-documenting. Doc strings are for everyone. Arguing not to create clear doc strings for "internal" functions made littl= e sense in the 1960s. It makes no sense at all now. In bygone days, Emacs code had comments instead of doc strings for some functions (sometimes systematically, for a given library). Most of those comments were changed to doc strings once the Dark Ages were over. Look at the large comments preceding these two function defuns. Yet even those elaborate comments do not describe the parameters. Emacs can do better. Much better. From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:05:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14843: 24.3.50; `line-move', `line-move-visual' need doc strings Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 23:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14843 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 14843-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14843.137358386631234 (code B ref 14843); Thu, 11 Jul 2013 23:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 14843) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2013 23:04:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48792 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxPuT-00087h-K5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 19:04:25 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:53912) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxPuR-00087X-6E for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 19:04:23 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r6BN4GOH006707; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 19:04:18 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 38DD9AE0CC; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 19:04:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 19:04:15 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 11 Jul 2013 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV4636=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9362 : core <4636> : streams <998209> : uri <1474445> X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) > They need doc strings, with complete descriptions of their parameters. Agreed. Stefan "Looking forward to your corresponding commit" From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:05:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14843: 24.3.50; `line-move', `line-move-visual' need doc strings Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 06:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14843 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 14843-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14843.1373612060493 (code B ref 14843); Fri, 12 Jul 2013 06:55:02 +0000 Received: (at 14843) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2013 06:54:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49428 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxXFD-00007r-8O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 02:54:19 -0400 Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:38585) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxXF9-00007R-Ki for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 02:54:16 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MPT00L009OI1N00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 09:54:08 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MPT00LOB9U81F20@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 09:54:08 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 09:54:02 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <83e00f63-4458-4901-8816-4875f599d9cc@default> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83li5c5kvp.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83e00f63-4458-4901-8816-4875f599d9cc@default> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 13:52:23 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org > > Perhaps it is also a small wonder that NONE of the uses of `line-move', > including those in simple.el itself, make ANY USE of the additional > parameters introduced in Emacs 22 (and not used even in 22). That's not true. These arguments are used by next-line and previous line. From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:05:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14843: 24.3.50; `line-move', `line-move-visual' need doc strings Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14843 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 14843-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14843.137361761016515 (code B ref 14843); Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:27:01 +0000 Received: (at 14843) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2013 08:26:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49498 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxYgj-0004IH-Lt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 04:26:49 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:29252) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxYgh-0004I0-L7 for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 04:26:48 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r6C8Qeb3012083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:26:41 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6C8QdpQ027616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:26:40 GMT Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6C8QdaE029235; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:26:39 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 01:26:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <<83e00f63-4458-4901-8816-4875f599d9cc@default>> <<83li5c5kvp.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83li5c5kvp.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) > > Perhaps it is also a small wonder that NONE of the uses of `line-move', > > including those in simple.el itself, make ANY USE of the additional > > parameters introduced in Emacs 22 (and not used even in 22). >=20 > That's not true. These arguments are used by next-line and previous > line. Yes and no. One of them is used; the other (TO-END) is not. But you're missing the point. Neither is used in any of the zillion uses of `line-move' - other than `(next|previous)-line'. And that lends some support to the idea that those programming those uses might not have even understood these undocumented parameters. In addition, it is NOT the case that optional parameter TO-END is used anywhere. And I do mean strictly anywhere this time. It was introduced in Emacs 22 but NEVER used anywhere, AFAICT. Again, not being documented might be one reason this vestige (vestige of nothing) has never been used and has never been removed. I made this clear in bug #14844 (where I mentioned only TO-END, not also TRY-VSCROLL). From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:05:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14843: 24.3.50; `line-move', `line-move-visual' need doc strings Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 09:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14843 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 14843-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14843.137362076825834 (code B ref 14843); Fri, 12 Jul 2013 09:20:02 +0000 Received: (at 14843) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2013 09:19:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49626 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxZVf-0006iW-N0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 05:19:27 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:44833) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UxZVc-0006i3-Ih for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 05:19:25 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MPT00600FU1OP00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:19:18 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MPT006R9GK59AB0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:19:18 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:19:12 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83d2qo5e5r.fsf@gnu.org> References: X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 01:26:38 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Perhaps it is also a small wonder that NONE of the uses of `line-move', > > > including those in simple.el itself, make ANY USE of the additional > > > parameters introduced in Emacs 22 (and not used even in 22). > > > > That's not true. These arguments are used by next-line and previous > > line. > > Yes and no. One of them is used; the other (TO-END) is not. It is documented to be unused. > But you're missing the point. Neither is used in any of the zillion uses > of `line-move' - other than `(next|previous)-line'. And that lends some > support to the idea that those programming those uses might not have even > understood these undocumented parameters. The arguments to next/previous-line are all documented now. From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:05:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14843: 24.3.50; `line-move', `line-move-visual' need doc strings Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 06:31:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14843 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 14843@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams Received: via spool by 14843-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14843.139184101528299 (code B ref 14843); Sat, 08 Feb 2014 06:31:01 +0000 Received: (at 14843) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2014 06:30:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56196 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WC1Qb-0007MF-Oj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 01:30:14 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:48560) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WC1QR-0007HB-6y for 14843@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 01:30:04 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WC1QB-0006Xq-Vp; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 07:29:48 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 22:28:34 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 11 Jul 2013 19:04:15 -0400") Message-ID: <87r47eyv71.fsf@building.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1WC1QB-0006Xq-Vp X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392445789.1249@x7bIl6IVOKzqsAZMA4OdFw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Stefan Monnier writes: >> They need doc strings, with complete descriptions of their parameters. > > Agreed. Fixed on trunk. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 08 01:30:26 2014 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2014 06:30:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56198 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WC1Qm-0007W0-JL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 01:30:25 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:48565) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WC1QW-0007LQ-FU for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 01:30:13 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WC1QI-0006Y7-9S for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 07:29:54 +0100 Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 22:28:45 -0800 Message-Id: <87ppmyyv6q.fsf@building.gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #14843 X-MailScanner-ID: 1WC1QI-0006Y7-9S X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392445795.13767@A3U3Z74jCOFK09kd9S5Axg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) close 14843