GNU bug report logs - #14736
24.3; "Insert" key results in question mark mouse cursor and does not send a keyboard event

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Package: emacs;

Reported by: Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org>

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 01:26:02 UTC

Severity: normal

Tags: confirmed, moreinfo

Found in version 24.3

Done: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#14736; Package emacs. (Fri, 28 Jun 2013 01:26:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org. (Fri, 28 Jun 2013 01:26:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.3; "Insert" key results in question mark mouse cursor and does
 not send a keyboard event
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:21:04 -0700 (PDT)
On Mac OS X, the "Insert" key on external keyboards is mapped to "Help".  Therefore, when the "Insert" key is pressed, the mouse cursor turns into a question mark and the key is not passed to Emacs to process.  This is problematic because users may have keybindings from Linux and Windows that make use of the "Insert" key.

The VIM project was able to resolve this issue by using the following code in the sendEvent method:

<code>
    // HACK! Intercept 'help' key presses and clear the 'help key flag', else
    // Cocoa turns the mouse cursor into a question mark and goes into 'context
    // help mode' (the keyDown: event itself never reaches the text view).  By
    // clearing the 'help key flag' this event will be treated like a normal
    // key event.
    if ((NSKeyDown == type || NSKeyUp == type) && (flags & NSHelpKeyMask)) {
        flags &= ~NSHelpKeyMask;
        event = [NSEvent keyEventWithType:[event type]
                                 location:[event locationInWindow]
                            modifierFlags:flags
                                timestamp:[event timestamp]
                             windowNumber:[event windowNumber]
                                  context:[event context]
                               characters:[event characters]
              charactersIgnoringModifiers:[event charactersIgnoringModifiers]
                                isARepeat:[event isARepeat]
                                  keyCode:[event keyCode]];
</code>

The full source is here:
https://code.google.com/p/macvim/source/browse/trunk/MMApplication.m

It would be a great benefit to users if this patch could be included in the upcoming point release.

Thanks,
Kumaran


-----


In GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin, NS apple-appkit-1038.36)
 of 2013-03-12 on bob.porkrind.org
Windowing system distributor `Apple', version 10.3.1187
Configured using:
 `configure '--host=x86_64-apple-darwin' '--build=i686-apple-darwin'
 '--with-ns' 'build_alias=i686-apple-darwin'
 'host_alias=x86_64-apple-darwin' 'CC=gcc -mmacosx-version-min=10.7
 -isystem
 /Users/david/Xcode-10.7_4.5.2/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.7.sdk/usr/include/
 -F/Users/david/Xcode-10.7_4.5.2/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.7.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks''




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#14736; Package emacs. (Tue, 31 May 2016 20:42:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #8 received at 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
To: Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org>
Cc: 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14736: 24.3;
 "Insert" key results in question mark mouse cursor and does not send
 a keyboard event
Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 21:41:10 +0100
Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org> writes:

> On Mac OS X, the "Insert" key on external keyboards is mapped to
> "Help". Therefore, when the "Insert" key is pressed, the mouse cursor
> turns into a question mark and the key is not passed to Emacs to
> process. This is problematic because users may have keybindings from
> Linux and Windows that make use of the "Insert" key.

Confirmed as still present in Emacs 25.

Is there some use for the "help" key and question-mark pointer?

Interestingly, it looks like on recent Apple keyboards "insert" is
replaced with fn instead of help.
-- 
Alan Third




Added tag(s) confirmed. Request was from Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Tue, 31 May 2016 20:43:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#14736; Package emacs. (Thu, 15 Jul 2021 06:03:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #13 received at 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
Cc: Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org>, 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14736: 24.3; "Insert" key results in question mark mouse
 cursor and does not send a keyboard event
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 08:02:14 +0200
Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org> writes:

> Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org> writes:
>
>> On Mac OS X, the "Insert" key on external keyboards is mapped to
>> "Help". Therefore, when the "Insert" key is pressed, the mouse cursor
>> turns into a question mark and the key is not passed to Emacs to
>> process. This is problematic because users may have keybindings from
>> Linux and Windows that make use of the "Insert" key.
>
> Confirmed as still present in Emacs 25.
>
> Is there some use for the "help" key and question-mark pointer?
>
> Interestingly, it looks like on recent Apple keyboards "insert" is
> replaced with fn instead of help.

I don't have an external keyboard for my Apple laptop, so I can't test
myself.  Is this issue still present in newer versions of Emacs/Macos?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




Added tag(s) moreinfo. Request was from Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Thu, 15 Jul 2021 06:03:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#14736; Package emacs. (Sun, 25 Jul 2021 11:37:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #18 received at 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org>, 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14736: 24.3; "Insert" key results in question mark mouse
 cursor and does not send a keyboard event
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 12:36:10 +0100
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org> writes:
>
>> Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org> writes:
>>
>>> On Mac OS X, the "Insert" key on external keyboards is mapped to
>>> "Help". Therefore, when the "Insert" key is pressed, the mouse cursor
>>> turns into a question mark and the key is not passed to Emacs to
>>> process. This is problematic because users may have keybindings from
>>> Linux and Windows that make use of the "Insert" key.
>>
>> Confirmed as still present in Emacs 25.
>>
>> Is there some use for the "help" key and question-mark pointer?
>>
>> Interestingly, it looks like on recent Apple keyboards "insert" is
>> replaced with fn instead of help.
>
> I don't have an external keyboard for my Apple laptop, so I can't test
> myself.  Is this issue still present in newer versions of Emacs/Macos?

Apparently fn-return should be equivalent. I can't check it right now
though.
-- 
Alan Third




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#14736; Package emacs. (Wed, 28 Jul 2021 15:44:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #21 received at 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
Cc: Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org>, 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14736: 24.3; "Insert" key results in question mark mouse
 cursor and does not send a keyboard event
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 17:43:12 +0200
Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org> writes:

> Apparently fn-return should be equivalent. I can't check it right now
> though.

And I'm away from home and don't have access to a Mac laptop this week.
:-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#14736; Package emacs. (Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:20:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #24 received at 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org>, 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14736: 24.3; "Insert" key results in question mark mouse
 cursor and does not send a keyboard event
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 19:19:30 +0100
On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 05:43:12PM +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org> writes:
> 
> > Apparently fn-return should be equivalent. I can't check it right now
> > though.
> 
> And I'm away from home and don't have access to a Mac laptop this week.
> :-)

I finally tried it on mine and it did exactly nothing.
-- 
Alan Third




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#14736; Package emacs. (Sun, 29 Aug 2021 20:24:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #27 received at 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
Cc: Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org>, 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14736: 24.3; "Insert" key results in question mark mouse
 cursor and does not send a keyboard event
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 22:23:44 +0200
Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org> writes:

> On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 05:43:12PM +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
>> Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org> writes:
>> 
>> > Apparently fn-return should be equivalent. I can't check it right now
>> > though.
>> 
>> And I'm away from home and don't have access to a Mac laptop this week.
>> :-)
>
> I finally tried it on mine and it did exactly nothing.

So...  it sounds like the original reported problem is gone, at least?
So I'm closing this bug report, but perhaps the Insert key should do
something...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




bug closed, send any further explanations to 14736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and Kumaran Santhanam <kumaran <at> alumni.stanford.org> Request was from Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Sun, 29 Aug 2021 20:24:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <help-debbugs <at> gnu.org> to internal_control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Mon, 27 Sep 2021 11:24:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

This bug report was last modified 3 years and 321 days ago.

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