From unknown Wed Jun 25 05:43:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14305: 23.4; doc string of `frame-visible-p' Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:20:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 14305 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 14305@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.136724878113586 (code B ref -1); Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:20:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2013 15:19:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50470 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UWprg-0003Wy-5o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:19:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44891) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UWprd-0003Wg-Gl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:19:38 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UWprK-0003Lk-4P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:19:19 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:38396) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UWprK-0003Lf-1R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:19:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56228) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UWprI-0003MW-7d for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:19:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UWprG-0003Gy-BB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:19:16 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:45039) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UWprG-0003Fd-3Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:19:14 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r3TFJBNL019276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:19:12 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r3TFJBmO022176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:19:12 GMT Received: from abhmt105.oracle.com (abhmt105.oracle.com [141.146.116.57]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r3TFJBWo021719 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:19:11 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.8) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 08:19:11 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 08:19:07 -0700 Message-ID: <6F7AFD212BE544FC826C526BF6FD1416@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac5E7ORAnsR86wDMRtywg2fMEx68xg== X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) This makes it sound like "iconified" is something different from "minimized": Return the symbol `icon' if FRAME is iconified or "minimized". To imply that minimized means the same thing as iconified, you need a comma after "iconified" (or put "'minimized'" in parens): Return the symbol `icon' if FRAME is iconified, or minimized. Return the symbol `icon' if FRAME is iconified (minimized). The second is clearer, not requiring readers to notice the comma and recognize how it changes parsing of the sentence. And you can remove the quotes around "visible", "minimized", and "taskbar". In GNU Emacs 23.4.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-02-04 on MARVIN Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --cflags -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/src -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include' From unknown Wed Jun 25 05:43:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14305: 23.4; doc string of `frame-visible-p' Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14305 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 14305@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 14305-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14305.139185748610732 (code B ref 14305); Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 14305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2014 11:04:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56519 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WC5iH-0002n1-B9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 06:04:45 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:56741) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WC5iE-0002mr-PR for 14305@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 06:04:43 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WC5i0-0001ME-CK; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 12:04:28 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <6F7AFD212BE544FC826C526BF6FD1416@us.oracle.com> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 03:03:19 -0800 In-Reply-To: <6F7AFD212BE544FC826C526BF6FD1416@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 29 Apr 2013 08:19:07 -0700") Message-ID: <87ob2huars.fsf@building.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1WC5i0-0001ME-CK X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392462269.01252@L19/9ribiRXO66UCTvGOcQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) "Drew Adams" writes: > This makes it sound like "iconified" is something different from > "minimized": > > Return the symbol `icon' if FRAME is iconified or "minimized". > > To imply that minimized means the same thing as iconified, you need a > comma after "iconified" (or put "'minimized'" in parens): > > Return the symbol `icon' if FRAME is iconified, or minimized. > > Return the symbol `icon' if FRAME is iconified (minimized). Well, are they the same thing? > The second is clearer, not requiring readers to notice the comma and > recognize how it changes parsing of the sentence. > > And you can remove the quotes around "visible", "minimized", and > "taskbar". Even if a frame is obscured by other frames (and is therefore not visible), I think this function will still say that it is "visible". So I think the sneer quotes are correct here. Closing. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 08 06:04:50 2014 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2014 11:04:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56522 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WC5iM-0002nL-0i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 06:04:50 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:56747) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WC5iJ-0002nD-Bh for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 06:04:47 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WC5i5-0001MM-I3 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 12:04:33 +0100 Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 03:03:25 -0800 Message-Id: <87mwi1uarm.fsf@building.gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #14305 X-MailScanner-ID: 1WC5i5-0001MM-I3 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392462274.1214@+7FgtfO+LRvN0rB81yIMJQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) close 14305 From unknown Wed Jun 25 05:43:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14305: 23.4; doc string of `frame-visible-p' Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:47:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14305 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 14305@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 14305-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14305.13920687724749 (code B ref 14305); Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:47:02 +0000 Received: (at 14305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2014 21:46:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41955 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCyg7-0001EW-P5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 16:46:12 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:43734) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCyg4-0001BP-VC for 14305@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 16:46:09 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s1ALk21Q014496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:46:03 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s1ALk0YQ018346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:46:01 GMT Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s1ALk0Fe005083; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:46:00 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <48388a2a-6553-44a4-8909-3f71caf83beb@default> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 13:45:59 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <6F7AFD212BE544FC826C526BF6FD1416@us.oracle.com> <87ob2huars.fsf@building.gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87ob2huars.fsf@building.gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) > Well, are they the same thing? You tell me. What's the content of the message to users here? If they are the same, then add commas or otherwise make that clear. If not, and if it is important to mention both, then it becomes important to say what each is (what the difference is). > > The second is clearer, not requiring readers to notice the comma > > and recognize how it changes parsing of the sentence. > > > > And you can remove the quotes around "visible", "minimized", and > > "taskbar". >=20 > Even if a frame is obscured by other frames (and is therefore not > visible), I think this function will still say that it is "visible". > So I think the sneer quotes are correct here.=20 You might have a point there for "visible", but not for the other two, AFAICT. On some platforms a frame might be iconified on the desktop, and the icon thus hidden by another frame. But on other platforms the icons are in a task bar or whatever, not covered by another frame. And I see no reason whatsover for quotes, sneer or otherwise, around "taskbar". > Closing. Fixing is what should be done.