From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 12 11:05:07 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2013 15:05:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47503 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UQfXG-0002J3-M0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:05:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60227) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UQfXE-0002Io-GM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:05:05 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UQfTL-0004Dv-JZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:01:09 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RP_MATCHES_RCVD, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:55326) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UQfTL-0004Df-GN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:01:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43292) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UQfTG-0004Dy-2R for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:01:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UQfTE-00042n-RC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:00:57 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.12]:51987) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UQfTE-00042N-FE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:00:56 -0400 Received: from drachen.dragon ([92.74.136.91]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M3jwL-1UikLs14mP-00rm8W for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:00:53 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:00:52 +0200 Message-ID: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:hunqJTvDNMm4W7cyYoEBEyhIgE0nvmUJaVWC7aOAu6m PYPzDfimFO5RZNZD9ZHrIMgjYrILSnjncQh+aCQ1novtxn5+Ui t/kynJhickfGsiVIjlxJ0olPWvkC4sxBVaAEKsFYe9K7vJcVvT 6cnKJ2Uqhn9u94vS5dlGVqoeht0qtiWJ3Y0vfIRxT72UsShY6C z8xnLr/XLVdNlMqYwrnKoVnsQcSpp+Pm6E5XFpl7zw= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: michael_heerdegen@web.de List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Hi, I think the most common use of entering a recursive edit in an ispell session (C-r) would be to modify the checked buffer - especially, to substitute the currently checked word with some other text. But whenever I exit the recursive edit (C-M-c), the deleted text reappears and is highlighted again as unknown by ispell. I see this in emacs -Q, e.g. after M-x ispell-buffer in *scratch*. If this most simple case - replacing the current word - is not working, we shouldn't IMHO advertise C-r in `ispell-help' etc. (Had raised this issue in emacs.devel before, but had gotten no answer.) Thanks, Michael. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.4.2) of 2013-04-10 on dex, modified by Debian (emacs-snapshot package, version 2:20130410-1) Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11204000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 7.0 (wheezy) Configured using: `configure --build x86_64-linux-gnu --host x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var --infodir=/usr/share/info --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes --enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs-snapshot:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.3.50/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.3.50/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp --without-compress-info --with-crt-dir=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ --with-x=yes --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-imagemagick=yes CFLAGS='-DDEBIAN -DSITELOAD_PURESIZE_EXTRA=5000 -g -O2' CPPFLAGS='-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2' LDFLAGS='-g -Wl,--as-needed -znocombreloc'' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: de_DE.utf8 value of $LC_TIME: C value of $LANG: de_DE.utf8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default enable-multibyte-characters: t From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 12 12:55:24 2013 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2013 16:55:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47612 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UQhFv-0003qA-IT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:55:24 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]:51300) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UQhFo-0003pk-RY for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0400 Received: from drachen.dragon ([92.74.136.91]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lg01f-1UuC081dPP-00p7mG; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 18:51:15 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 18:51:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:00:52 +0200") Message-ID: <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:XhVqMS720UvZIdC5UtOIahSKEsXXFf/6LMLxTxcPRSd HyH4KPSwAckARkKxEkuGSgOLyYILM6D5tIy2nsCi3rf3J1wgrb D/nnUXH+1gOpwXLnSc8UCfHzlwWHC6tv/d4Gtl7JhaAWY5QJF8 AnVd2HLBiGE90bGx+4ZXrGke4Mpd7DxAOR1rU0xHoTIxIDx2Ng pAzpIS/7a/q+B1c524LfDqVGk2ztwRQ2Wg1AS7k2Ko= X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) Michael Heerdegen writes: > Hi, > > I think the most common use of entering a recursive edit in an ispell > session (C-r) would be to modify the checked buffer - especially, to > substitute the currently checked word with some other text. But > whenever I exit the recursive edit (C-M-c), the deleted text reappears > and is highlighted again as unknown by ispell. I see this in emacs -Q, > e.g. after M-x ispell-buffer in *scratch*. Some comments after debugging a bit: `ispell-process-line' sets the variable `replace' to the result of `ispell-command-loop'. `ispell-command-loop', however, returns the _old_ word. Why? In `ispell-command-loop', search for the cond-clause of (= char ?\C-r). The clause returns (list word nil), where `word' is the (old, unchanged) current word. There is this comment at that position: ; recheck starting at this word. If I change the clause so that it just returns nil, the bug is fixed, but the replaced text is not being checked again (I could live with that). As a fix, we could try to return something reflecting the change that was maybe made in the buffer. Regards, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 10 06:19:28 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2024 11:19:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42232 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNWcJ-0002gP-Ri for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 06:19:28 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-x235.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::235]:56711) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNWcG-0002g7-Tn for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 06:19:26 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-x235.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2cd0d05838fso45145751fa.1 for <14192@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 03:19:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704885551; x=1705490351; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=DmCTF1bh/D+gW8zjPpidvxgaEk3c0zJ9BsGgUjftCy0=; b=I8UUGMjZpe0Od4iF0wgkCdfS39xmW0/fmJ68heWmS7eqVXn8f5rf4YwYXzwdoFxB8M c1raxRdMJw4s/LIssA+hhTr3A1Vve8zacq20PuuO3aKPx5RniJPSIveQcqwVxgMPWnZ/ R6tNc9N+DvFNuLRN+OJJ/nyjQzkpw2kONZUpwritatHpOVuSXtrxxTQRdqSPDcIcK/iI rWUH5Q0wN3y61AePurdrnpz1W8u1BalS/wAB2q7PorFtxRsJcj9mH2ZUZukOhriYCsmp BqkKuh3Sj4exOFdAVUNK+K0DXPf/urTPlBX1NkisjEZMmPxRL9wpBXi5RCXRHB/F1z2v yLcA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704885551; x=1705490351; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=DmCTF1bh/D+gW8zjPpidvxgaEk3c0zJ9BsGgUjftCy0=; b=QrB9Sjs0H7PfRj1zeLXy83jSZNJ6LqZ4bbbj79i/BA8PCWJ0XpBXLHmNNQ9iekNWL0 sAHkZRCQ743nUI4vI4rc2+YCeZSWmTNAInV3ATeDR1cCdPAYejJLCzhcjiH9afVv1BtJ pH09U5JfnKrMkk1m/5VVbhla6cPBgHLL/AJY6d8/63LjHWN2XN61FLgAjZN58wZOXFIo MMPoGLZAzJKxsUVJ2by4NK07xjBp86MH6BLof4jfpS8Qnj7qdrpdkhJHochnoH03iHtq MbTfvFpxZuT87FvHsyCN9/W2Xo5J7sX/5/7bRknMA99ab9C6azRYE0mTfSqKu97vhWYK eHzA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw5pZCnr3BVvl/ED8NsDs6xjijqQvYB2Oz4co27HpwvXais/N/+ bYN9IntQpV90L8/uVoxBLBvcIixEALFoGhQd7PgyPT3Od0cozw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHRE0gA2kv1mfC+1t2hmhyDlKfEmmwhifMQjy6w85d8UBuKVo/GaIe0qXqG+MntcQur0I0txi1ZN6uG3yEddC4= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:a481:0:b0:2cc:7667:48e8 with SMTP id h1-20020a2ea481000000b002cc766748e8mr421861lji.33.1704885551470; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 03:19:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 03:19:11 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Fri, 12 Apr 2013 18:51:14 +0200") References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 03:19:11 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully To: Michael Heerdegen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Michael Heerdegen writes: > Michael Heerdegen writes: > >> Hi, >> >> I think the most common use of entering a recursive edit in an ispell >> session (C-r) would be to modify the checked buffer - especially, to >> substitute the currently checked word with some other text. But >> whenever I exit the recursive edit (C-M-c), the deleted text reappears >> and is highlighted again as unknown by ispell. I see this in emacs -Q, >> e.g. after M-x ispell-buffer in *scratch*. > > Some comments after debugging a bit: > > `ispell-process-line' sets the variable `replace' to the result of > `ispell-command-loop'. `ispell-command-loop', however, returns the > _old_ word. Why? > > In `ispell-command-loop', search for the cond-clause of (= char ?\C-r). > The clause returns (list word nil), where `word' is the (old, unchanged) > current word. There is this comment at that position: > > ; recheck starting at this word. > > If I change the clause so that it just returns nil, the bug is fixed, > but the replaced text is not being checked again (I could live with > that). > > As a fix, we could try to return something reflecting the change that > was maybe made in the buffer. That was 10 years ago, so I'm reaching out to see if this is still an issue on a modern version of Emacs. If I don't hear back from you within a couple of months, Ill just assume that this has been fixed and close this bug. Thanks in advance. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 10 22:13:36 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jan 2024 03:13:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43635 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNlVf-0007Oo-OE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 22:13:35 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.12]:34045) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNlVd-0007Ob-Kj for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 22:13:34 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1704942807; x=1705547607; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=D5hFYBeNXVGFRmh76WZnRT2kRj0mKaDAKqrTETF0E2s=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Date; b=FuYO0e5zyhwhW5NTaFfKnja+X+Op1bPKHK6HzqGpRQOdFYEtfX0G6Fku24XiEy4H Lew+ePpMQE5nhF7l/zWooIwe52ST9wgwE45sifvUJjxSBYDuUih6iQEkcuhJQkRcg KXMaZoalHMZtI7lXMElhK+l8ScN5khPcP6QkGEuvxL/Bqk1VywZre8EI6nKRfe6M8 yLALoTySbmxNBPaS9rHh4QCYAOgmmIB6R3ah0bT6MlxrlZqkg9Snunj+bRCfIVBIn d8j+tjP0H9TbNmLNIbcueyNJeoMDVWqhkbCM9HS9EjkejTTNsiZuiJI5WnuZEPXfV lE9MlbNKVRs27QhJYA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Received: from drachen.dragon ([84.59.210.83]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb105 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MVaYw-1rn1bH2LH2-00RwJZ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 04:13:27 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 10 Jan 2024 03:19:11 -0800") References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 04:13:50 +0100 Message-ID: <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:9YYziCVQLSg/PZdKToezwm16CBBdC1oGywQBMkJ03teKrU6z880 p95tPAXOIdxCr2T5ZyFyj0FVNABSt5iFJuLfJvriV4d0xks8Fgs1XCgLYBECn5AzzwscHIF yufHfa6+r9UQgY8RY99im1O1i2XVgqQdibNXCJ/o+GDp/F0MzqI09druOWUGzlNTWv4jpM5 oG6r1UFwLR4Q2hBb73r8g== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:jf6NE//1OGE=;FU3A1/AbX4SkFvwY7d9trIYrh/b woVhygMC1H/hmKL/GUcf0Kkxh6GuiHDVFD4CC9jZOz00n3jyjZ2KsGWiPo4zJusdJqS/S3bZT xkSoTvaxGMt1JwDYRyBpNOZyz2gnPAHswsccehCviWOSae5ksKUV1GYnxiKqoszv1+Q61pjrH ckHtGMbfuuykbX+gCpjUdc2W6dCXVb1drM8gYUUsFJLtjiDV4iA0pAdedP75WNtroIAAJ/Hmj DMZv5y4Imo/FJjUS39DnIip9mCAhPIem1+SoxCOMwM0wPAcX4QHooL5T4D7shdtjrrF9Wx2qD LkRSIrtiPeG42fMqB2OzC8ghZndbrTY9tOUJNDzkLwLPCGFtkm5PNTuu5aXxJ24NqqaFemwSE Ris8TC8qfvOd3lSCp65QdTtPzlymcDhgLbt0fJFLFNPwPC7CA6Miunb372oesDe7t2s0aBBs0 g/wegkAUVrcGtbavJmsbBC7TBx326RFrrG/H3WJ4Xylr78paJNKweKSqAWf5yGbxPr1mQFSaN pa3EPhwik7kU3KI5OuwcxSZCq5oUwcVURGgTY8CLnqTivX2+yIICg84pzOCV7WdHvpakE0cqt HGT2WdYNMDyDJPAsO25GLlGyRFems55juFKo3bUhq8x+ooEmZKvP8NdSBpDd6aMElvkYSnx2n Y+Lfv8Uh4rZaPzYVus7K6FcADfgkv+qd91fhDqUduk3DkcS5RF7uamKj2Abd2l7M0YM/6OHUT ROLcX18ka37CETk2BPt+9X0sYR1/U9IiD7/lEmnsaEFVoXmjykgqgj3S7q+Nl86bxrcVV5duE euiZ2ltvsq++rkNf3jg9sZcI3zTTEW7p0VHXGBi4sWOFfEEljtKoIMozu2g6ZyLQCK3iAQVvS QnLiKufp4u49kqS9hMfmijct+GaeV7k8UO0UClanU0Wbsd+OZsfZxlMAxd1HNxYd0lTsyLofv v5A4eg== X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > That was 10 years ago, so I'm reaching out to see if this is still > an issue on a modern version of Emacs. AFAIK, nothing has changed in the behavior since then. I guess the authors did not intend the recursive edit to be used to change the buffer text. But if somebody uses it to change the buffer text, Emacs will happily mess it up. > If I don't hear back from you within a couple of months, Ill just assume > that this has been fixed and close this bug. I hope this is not your standard reply. I mean, ten years, I could have died in the meantime, which would not mean that the bug has magically disappeared. I hope you send this kind of text only to people you know that are still using Emacs regularly. Because, if some user asks a question, gets no answer, then makes a bug report, and is ignored for ten years, it is very unfriendly to request anything at all. I know about the situation of our bug collection, but this is not expedient. You can't expect anyone to even still use Emacs after a whole decade. Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 11 02:05:05 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jan 2024 07:05:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58548 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNp7h-0003K5-5Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 02:05:05 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53428) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNp7e-0003JJ-Kd for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 02:05:03 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNotL-0003LL-2X; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 01:50:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=xldVIIWkQ4ERt/7013APt8bA2L9/wZNPGrexfS5tgig=; b=lPjjITP91mX/ DCJex/S7r9TnXcAOFCp975sdTtBC4PqCvyfJyZ9k0cny9rNrFxS2Y4hNSmRYToXg3A4W8hanuCxzS ws2KmpRNYwAzs96tB/RUImBGvWqtzzFYzh8bbG4iNbVG4LjCOP6ulTLgtv0ToX9b1QRUbp0A5K9xS paDEyStfFnWnj+pNMNGsHRGHyvDYer5QCS/aDz11WIGGVKeOZAB9AtB2W8xkIrkAGPc/SfUy6oeGc CmxjAaKkDhi22qP63L9W8ZofJKXcA0zfZCh6VqKCuiS3QSn4JR/S3II/S3WQsnacp734PxldfxEru akdezCMZKJq+PYt4vWUHUw==; Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:49:57 +0200 Message-Id: <838r4wmkiy.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Michael Heerdegen In-Reply-To: <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 04:13:50 +0100 > From: Michael Heerdegen via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" > > Stefan Kangas writes: > > > If I don't hear back from you within a couple of months, Ill just assume > > that this has been fixed and close this bug. > > I hope this is not your standard reply. I mean, ten years, I could have > died in the meantime, which would not mean that the bug has magically > disappeared. I hope you send this kind of text only to people you know > that are still using Emacs regularly. Because, if some user asks a > question, gets no answer, then makes a bug report, and is ignored for > ten years, it is very unfriendly to request anything at all. I > know about the situation of our bug collection, but this is not > expedient. You can't expect anyone to even still use Emacs after > a whole decade. He said "if I don't hear from you". If there's no answer and no new information, leaving bugs open just accumulates bugs that are not (and cannot be) worked on. So we made a decision to close such bugs. If the issue still exists and affects someone, those persons will probably report it at some point with enough information to allow investigating and fixing the problem. I don't see anything wrong with this policy. We do know from bitter experience the downsides of not closing such bugs -- gobs of open bugs that no one looks at. That is worse, IMNSHO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 11 15:35:19 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jan 2024 20:35:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34025 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rO1ln-0002bP-5S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 15:35:19 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::531]:44090) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rO1lj-0002b9-TP for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 15:35:17 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-55783b7b47aso5926232a12.0 for <14192@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:35:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705005312; x=1705610112; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hgAbXCLlUg2KmLlGEtYthRMcqQQl+Ka98jWacwxRy4Y=; b=BPWUGrnoPcBcraqBIxf+GuvObKXnhNahiw0OmxnP2CjXJm09hlY+pfKuMQLdMfyzEp XC53xN8bGxAzhnLf8RmIbDJbSH1Ff5AYumaEa7ya7K4lEwP2ZGzYsXcHr82cZV1874lj ph0frNq32DmWOLiMdILOq8YZQbxg9y+WL/jleAiY5BM34cFEMnlPAGzQfugFbTXcvv3J 4a7aXf6dUFIZwOun9a1d8AWua6Gw8+h7SNN/QBgvCzAbixpT+DxgXnxpERg08g6KkWiA 9FYezYg0EDA4DmMSxq0ZfxXcPKvaWSFY7MMHLlAaTFpahPVZbq+O/4F015ukB2l4HCdP U59w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705005312; x=1705610112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hgAbXCLlUg2KmLlGEtYthRMcqQQl+Ka98jWacwxRy4Y=; b=EI9Q0IXARTIp7F9GgfoZDe0mIU1/lMuFvkTuKh3M6jN+D2Hc8rKeGjZ8HuKcnThhYK gFxiRxgIaKJG7QYhlAaGgj/TkkzaOfmSYc8oUeZGTNrY5ZWVPGR4VwMJ0i47fpfrJeux ug6XDGuhr5XNcp2LiqK0or6vENiXwLjWnXV1iVfYoLhOu9P4SO4QmxIYlrnTS7Tf8BDJ 826B2CLWvm+xVtGiutyiF6nSoO0os7S0Zc05TICF0qt2d13w9omJOz+gObsbRmvk+5BW 6B0JBzDhkHWJyB+JE21wqLJjOkLnRCAxvs/dRyvv1A6JQTA/ZtEG6YUxTv0PFTyVnVFH tV8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxxNb/Xb9c1Wk2GKLpnNPGGHMEaCthFF/I++DWXo2SleEEX7lot tAsubQm9dr8Ph+Ruo53yuR/8wjvmwuT2UDiQSFqxSjSeq8A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHXfD818p69g9esNZ0329GcxvZb9QeTcJORjLr5Lmn6nOqad9RS6zvI5tnHXLx4hAU9YE0AZ3KAjOvh/ChbKBM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:b4e:b0:558:b9fe:722e with SMTP id bx14-20020a0564020b4e00b00558b9fe722emr106843edb.33.1705005311783; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:35:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:35:11 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:35:11 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully To: Michael Heerdegen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Michael Heerdegen writes: >> That was 10 years ago, so I'm reaching out to see if this is still >> an issue on a modern version of Emacs. > > AFAIK, nothing has changed in the behavior since then. > I guess the authors did not intend the recursive edit to be used to > change the buffer text. > But if somebody uses it to change the buffer text, Emacs will happily > mess it up. OK, thanks. >> If I don't hear back from you within a couple of months, Ill just assume >> that this has been fixed and close this bug. > > I hope this is not your standard reply. I mean, ten years, I could have > died in the meantime, which would not mean that the bug has magically > disappeared. I hope you send this kind of text only to people you know > that are still using Emacs regularly. Because, if some user asks a > question, gets no answer, then makes a bug report, and is ignored for > ten years, it is very unfriendly to request anything at all. I > know about the situation of our bug collection, but this is not > expedient. You can't expect anyone to even still use Emacs after > a whole decade. Yes, this is my standard reply, and yes, if the bug reporter stops responding, we sometimes just close the bug outright. I'm not unsympathetic to your position, but please understand that we have a very limited amount of resources given the tremendous stream of incoming bugs and improvements that we have to manage. If we don't sometimes do things summarily, maintaining Emacs will quickly become an impossible task. The only alternative I see is that we simply stop caring about the number of open bugs in the bug tracker, and then in another 5-10 years or so we nuke it from orbit and start a new one. That would lose even more information, but it's not like the prospect does not sometimes sound pretty appealing. So do tell us if we make mistakes, but please be patient with us if we aren't always as polite or diligent as we are on our best days. Or, even better, volunteer more time to help us fix the bugs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 11 18:14:42 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jan 2024 23:14:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34281 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rO4G2-0000BB-0A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 18:14:42 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]:49115) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rO4Fy-0000Aq-Ra for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 18:14:40 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1705014874; x=1705619674; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=MeTEHfTjdpLOEmzBThM6qdBKXtYxJVvfFwHpRqxrBds=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Date; b=hrBmFGYCm0dhglxFtrOIol9KmcYIJ0pWIXqlH7CM8Yuux6FGi03GpNo1aEQf5EGi L1o1bpt0HoidoQpx9gjgc2JKHf16NPXGYFnfazmvwKJfHYA4+oQLkoZdgcEFTiAXp rwywB/eVrRx5LrC7fd3hlBAr3yx+PBQkwdhXEo5rEA6s/FqfhrtE5yM7qNh5nLcgK boQnxh0tiromPJvYpyS9TUh4hfQOltWTDIRTJfcc18d7UBOgbjgm5oheVeuVNpD/W Gy3sJOgjK++tN8fZJPoQBuiY7wzz+OfsFYohL5e5Tt3y75c53HmTpLVdcBgP/fAkO peM5PXZbgLh9ZUOxAw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Received: from drachen.dragon ([84.59.210.83]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb105 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Ma0Pm-1rcF3u0RbI-00W1U7; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 00:14:34 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully In-Reply-To: <838r4wmkiy.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:49:57 +0200") References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> <838r4wmkiy.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 00:14:56 +0100 Message-ID: <87le8vcvin.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Yf3ytgAHJtrcpcOaKLhegivpJpoF3j5EonD96VnCtLc5FejJZHe j4H6k8F9cGTUXUg8CRJT1bUIS5O89Z/FMZ40VqA4YFmC1Pr3p9nt7NLiNkxX65tBm05BN0d 1x3/i9mXc1RSPSRMGsS9Rpg+GVuLnzTnSByg2R5YKQmNHfGaDsTt6rnShBpcxw+/x9IegYi hfuGTh9qpPDGF05S3IGXA== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:l9eeAdTKu3U=;fFKe3vddgeqaXb4fOypNViVVl1q CRShbqSLtht8LgsEDH+Jqkrb0MTLfOXof9Py2cVK3BM+MxnKys2yp03YIxs+NMA678aDkG8ty K16iZeyHhk+LW7T/rZHwTGzACLppBuaNI+RrMdBak7pjFQ+Bq/tqRCbNE6VJvf+kka+CNaSfA OfClp+f3jC0ipD1WlGPk+I99+eVwM4QpWqzfCBMz/WCHRgzFNCTqmvLNZ5g+AUMLSXPHdscLF Va4NpgmLUQSRENEo/aSIx2Ow29i+DZmxsCoX4fQikr2VtTxLka4NxKTTw5JBFUsYDh5aj1CFD wvSrH1IUfMbACT7+G8j8zE2/AweOMEKOSeDv5fcnkyKiyNsisflWBwiPCpde0cN2q1tFmCt3Y bJZUslbHY/IC4Ub1Z+3ssKqu+9USoKJ2ccz/PcBAEC42/zDnsVn8Trzju0ymy59XvzPFMsTZ/ M1aHatI4JohvLWBE3wpQTCJWfWUmP4XjtDVla2UMkm6Ws7rw//pliuSIdO84bRYnLKYBh1jxq SYfwBcRVhA1dGNqP1pGu17BHJtXSkTdvUJn1cBKb4I2ShGFJ9nYmxBL2jLZgJG2xmF0KlkiDL K4D5qbpCxOPpBcCbdDWRfKpVUKWbMg/A5AizJwCRCbQsUSwJdKMFW2IiNSTCWvrCoem5lyykH 586/cJLVCY4CPdgTfJdwSTR81uwhLXWN4Uq1I7ctSqoXdX8hC63nNObOb9Y47oq9t6HGyesTY xPYEdIIvND/tE+M3Wo4oXq+CoWSCo3e5ZVkDWydT6v9tfWNNDpwAaQQeJ5btuDMPjX0fD9O9G ZzF4zrpS4ogXXFLEkqjCZ8yOXik8gJh7IvYujNpOJD3qpIbwF+HrgbzCImfQ7OTkotrnUrmZ1 v9ZEyH6YcPOmnf3aYMmas89JMXPlhNLuk0c0+VP8sL4ce6+280w1vLQjExcynqunuxTm3tyn2 Fhmzig== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > He said "if I don't hear from you". If there's no answer and no new > information, leaving bugs open just accumulates bugs that are not (and > cannot be) worked on. The "cannot be" part is not true in this case. I provided an easy recipe, the problem is reproducible in a few seconds. > So we made a decision to close such bugs. If the issue still exists > and affects someone, those persons will probably report it at some > point with enough information to allow investigating and fixing the > problem. And I provided a lot of information, and even an analysis. > I don't see anything wrong with this policy. This policy is good, but not appropriate in this case. > We do know from bitter experience the downsides of not closing such > bugs -- gobs of open bugs that no one looks at. That is worse, > IMNSHO. That's a big problem, I know about it. I remember Lars' statistics. However the other side is also important. I remember a discussion a year or so ago, when somebody mentioned something is not working, and a few people added that it doesn't work for them as well. Then you wondered why nobody had created a bug report.. It is important to give the people reporting bugs a good feeling. The feedback they get after such a long time should not sound that negative. Ignored a report for such a long time is not nice, and even if it's not our fault, we could say that we are sorry about that. Choosing a more positive will also raise the chance of a reply. If this is a standard text, it might be worth the time to improve it. Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 11 18:29:56 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jan 2024 23:29:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34286 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rO4Um-0003Fk-IF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 18:29:56 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.14]:50851) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rO4Uh-0003FT-QI for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 18:29:55 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1705015787; x=1705620587; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=GKo1i51/JWjRNr8ajOoa6BF8EeQAa4kk10gkzo6M5lM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Date; b=R5l8ymK6dWscOujE8CGR2nlah0ovVg3RrZSmVKXV9LC9DBrgHx1c3Bv69o1UV+4y 8wEOJA50c01uYaYLTHoBoiS9NWxyj7EV0nPutbuzRjxmt/eMG0v13jPjdIhqdlJqw 4XctqgthITJPA4LZ8CH9y5LnE+IzQdYsV4eX77ncGOa1zDqxY1Yxzh6QnPgifB2qW IGrlQeQP5U1wAFef1TZvtg0tUMK2WFecu/SCAjYmoyFioZldbiyqATVKnZGNyW5MS 5xa1/nBJLqXFUsokcWfD4Goo9m1bTSA4iYBzEhkYTQz0GbeRYpUeFU2ANK7DyjWfB KoUFJgM7LUw6QiBVjw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Received: from drachen.dragon ([84.59.210.83]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb006 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M4sXj-1rQ0AW173v-001y3K; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 00:29:47 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:35:11 -0800") References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 00:30:10 +0100 Message-ID: <87h6jjcut9.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:JAK4O1hkcRlK7oti+q4Aep6uFkUeSFBxaH/ZQZ5YmYi7p6z0Jxm VHCMRNTP2v2LCcETud9RGDZXLeW2VuTtEKQJoesWAqLqA/VJajIgg2/Qs+c3XPThAaTCskK YxfCwfIZJdLEYnT0LpuSTC9sQcA3TfnCQtnj8ggh6WdTKEgh6B5NoLOcJtt33Z0/f8sVjM9 sUwxf0T8Ykc4/tMrP0kyA== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:sIxjWPOTSCo=;qtgjSvm4vsuBovdUjl1IwdIgYeE gd9/N44qEk7yigtSuHymKKTVoDQpe6nV9cfojMa9vq37CtqQkMuXf/T2nkGEtCEaVzQk3PDmk T2M/WLu8LvLtfZPrMSOqKokQrHVZ7eyrXoVLraaw7ZtsPmiw3d9V6/KVauBdXNy/DAglMcD8j w6EHO550lqaVCpdfcMiiyFH1AfWvswbf05m+612xwz3keC/JTSvkN2c0S1Z8XOEZTNYa5/nCq Y2fD0nhHZGH4rSdmgtY2NSRS/b404i2DMQbIMTVNkg/AIcjBwDah6YIONAC2TElpSW9vcFyV5 ruo+PpGOfFcs+ZocC1QXa8UFFKkPoOc8goJkQp98czUvxXYmPg0zzl9smm7+Jl7D2jM1gOXYG LgGbeLZrifzwwE5eKPBLEWLag4Gh1aum6fW4qoZdYabMjxukYk5SJkHfHxTYSL9VuMotHZhB0 fYrsBdWX065uqPqFOXOinvGHWMoVAVi697C3UxYHkl1rxDcIvK/7aJzsydEy/CdmqoTmI6oK6 Mq5IQ5lHO1dCxG6zA0rU4ePdO0RpEUfdxEkuQ+pGBGP6hJLJISZGlu2t4qj3wa3Gr30rsQMUO mQCW8NavqA4DEeOSJU6YnV3gwIf6Z63hdCSWPlyNmNSeVrosaq3oHTfhKdJtj40/SkvmzO5FY SIZZky5Uv92m/qjdLrPc1wHFweiyaIb84MeQDJLF6vHVg12uad1L2omd0DvYKzATQn75ZmtwE zT/89MZnIFiBbP8Q5+vorEtcUxHEDW0kJn+cw3TA3Wn1LZx/qD7qFIkRqCsa/mDyoXw9jetwv TNgBhn/JKAt55cWRvFoepzVwxu4PXcxNMa+9BPAAylwphst3Etgfs5I7j7dARzVdTdkehKF9Y Ku6KF+K0IcOjzKvZdvDHiK/Q+QmPBLnd83o8N+9Uvalu3zof5syeYunwKY9DnqZa25oRl+4PD a8kplQ== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > So do tell us if we make mistakes, but please be patient with us if we > aren't always as polite or diligent as we are on our best days. All good - see my reply to Eli. But please try to be as polite as possible, given the mountain of bugs in front of you. I don't care personally, but it's good to not leave a bad impression to others. But maybe we can quickly handle this report? What's your opinion about the behavior of Emacs? AFAIR after I had made the report I had been told that for replacing words I should use r or R instead of C-r aka recursive-edit (have a better memory than I thought I would have...maybe it had been Eli). And that the r-e is more for looking up words in a dictionary or such things, not to make buffer changes. Nonetheless do I still dislike the behavior of C-r. Does it make sense to you, does it have advantages I don't see? TIA, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 12 02:45:06 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2024 07:45:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34796 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOCDx-0004jX-FW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 02:45:05 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47988) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOCDv-0004Y8-23 for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 02:45:04 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOCDr-0008VM-Lj; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 02:44:59 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=73/f+0eGDo2bLB+FmsQ9I2ggoXiu6/4mxrxjorYCcI4=; b=R0/+2bt+h4u5 H90Wnh3ldYSerGmdeJLsLivxjqCI16RSEwb5LhIciqw1nYZFSpnP136RmY2LhiyLRr1sbz3GqtIhV S7vdMim9Kl1+0ZMWTAdBwA5GZ83nYGFvxFfu+/84R/jx5TNnRJ59wczkmM/dgQa6nYtjePdY3y1VF g2rYFr2x1sENsYXCEJ1h0iROTy22o/PJgsFlithIDKv0iRISAdb6qSsTBcxnoxIAhOJSrIFW4IDXJ /d/OIy8ms4TlqR9wo1g5fnozaau/dJNP7ewTZqPzD6RyWhZ9RI+Vkj6Ru4AZvPpO3u2FgCT3dPkLk PxeRhWdZVyj+QCnRyMlp/g==; Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:44:44 +0200 Message-Id: <83o7drj8r7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:35:11 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, 14192@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:35:11 -0800 > > Michael Heerdegen writes: > > >> That was 10 years ago, so I'm reaching out to see if this is still > >> an issue on a modern version of Emacs. > > > > AFAIK, nothing has changed in the behavior since then. > > I guess the authors did not intend the recursive edit to be used to > > change the buffer text. > > But if somebody uses it to change the buffer text, Emacs will happily > > mess it up. > > OK, thanks. FTR: C-r indeed was not meant to be used to modify the misspelled word. ispell.el has 'r' and 'R' commands for that. C-r is for consulting the rest of the text, without modifying it and without disrupting the spelling session. An alternative is to type 'X', make any modifications you want, and then resume spelling with "C-u M-$". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 13 02:57:36 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2024 07:57:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38310 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOYtb-0003cY-PM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 02:57:36 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x52a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52a]:52390) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOYtZ-0003cL-9S for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 02:57:34 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5537dd673e5so5846453a12.0 for <14192@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 23:57:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705132649; x=1705737449; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wKZCd9ifIiOZEtDdL+vBc7DVfqdghQMREJ6B5ERvv/s=; b=UwyKlk+p4rJsuJO97fFLAsj+spg4MQFAiGlvffl8NH9yLCX3FCQC07WhclCRcMaYcK BLR+RXnkFw/CRYtiyEaP9LUTK+Cywi4LBp1HlnQ2RgTVuf7ETEogBSdVjE32BviaJBSX gvV664qS7T/MxvTGc1kgr8mE3pC9cJPgQNqMXkfXcPjw8jXPqRydNfgVc6z9m3rRPLwi Oz/bpTyly/z3Q71WOBjL85Vl3c86hInXfDLcvSWIMJ6vmJL4hJ6Sd3UqQ1PxZ85G6dRY zUvyWsHlp+8ZUMRKXix5h/2Pd94uNyGOS3liOH1/qsRf4qbmv47yn4ASQsJJDv0+DHny dLqA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705132649; x=1705737449; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wKZCd9ifIiOZEtDdL+vBc7DVfqdghQMREJ6B5ERvv/s=; b=TyYkvfWY+ZNlyMnXKv9y/U62KSb5zUmUFWbw7BgXkWpquFZ9pD587pmQBRLSjFV+d7 /U4cD5mgm5QOTeLF88ophXNxBM2sja2zsGxfqgkerJtDLDgjKIisQLzP11Sph04mtdIK efKESHEHYF02z+IhKvmEXIhyyrx6dtdRAWP09/897MK472K3ivf5U3hRCJqVJm5KzOJQ XalKgd9alXPi7RrSxxR6pjJRkxc/sDFchvD+EF6HTRkfByBOXJmE+mdoFmQ7Zjm6a6+e mlaDhu4e79Cw0++etmBZIT1bR6Y1vz5mZCWKaBHDzNKMajAYLqxofgA+2VBBHahfzb4M GVRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyphYxlqGK27tzmjf9PEbV/2/fHfdxKVszzXYMUxXUJXa3Ohfpt 70L7xMBJv0K63VayGSxj+OvWHRSXjPRLe73o2S8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFAevJk39VEvoYeBcPBA8ngl2S9IkVA72GRopQjjgQYYG+c3MHmbSRpnzJycbF9AY1R3SOYdzfPNey4f/EtrnY= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:d687:0:b0:554:242f:2ad3 with SMTP id d7-20020aa7d687000000b00554242f2ad3mr1318832edr.48.1705132648631; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 23:57:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 01:57:28 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <87le8vcvin.fsf@web.de> References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> <838r4wmkiy.fsf@gnu.org> <87le8vcvin.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 01:57:28 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully To: Michael Heerdegen , Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Michael Heerdegen writes: > It is important to give the people reporting bugs a good feeling. The > feedback they get after such a long time should not sound that negative. > Ignored a report for such a long time is not nice, and even if it's not > our fault, we could say that we are sorry about that. Choosing a more > positive will also raise the chance of a reply. If this is a standard > text, it might be worth the time to improve it. Thanks for raising your concerns. I think you are broadly correct, so I'll try harder to be positive when asking for more feedback. I'll consider adjusting my standard texts, too. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 13 20:13:29 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 01:13:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41393 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOp45-00078F-Ho for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 20:13:29 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]:38933) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOp43-00077z-5o for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 20:13:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1705194801; x=1705799601; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=bSnKTMAoOJTzQgirMCud6f95D/pHkmaHLOBkEFv2WMI=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Date; b=jlvyZLEzIFDkVuY9tQkzx+hzLePIiHuCqi/WKi71VvrRIBuZt9N1V5cY77B9Auod yaXCMqUt7ny72nq1+0lQAHwU5hYzXTntJcAV/1jRJcXCXsbLo6FYbOj5KL50LMmwY qjnadV6/irmpmS0piRoBWXmicBHW41CvIaYNKk0S6uNW+B7UBDmnQAbfYpvTYiYAy PtAfpJMYnvSfuNRGj9vpsuPj6A/9nSnTJuU2oabcK0eRKKN452UIjiQAdjnF6m9MA WNjllMcHEMVSnluNzK2mIPo3r43/n3+5U93qp1xsUFrvSXRwEcfrDIGTF1scN8ae9 PHZ6gwscBL2CUxQllg== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Received: from drachen.dragon ([178.6.28.230]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb105 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MnpGi-1qmyKZ11a6-00pLa0; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:13:21 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sat, 13 Jan 2024 01:57:28 -0600") References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> <838r4wmkiy.fsf@gnu.org> <87le8vcvin.fsf@web.de> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:13:45 +0100 Message-ID: <87v87wlnsm.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:zysNlJz2ypraUoxgCLT2LxadeMaBAF9uuCXhn2vN2ZILstnYKzV 6UIjtg93LaP/PvAoaDnKxFHlBm2W+j1/JPBHDWb9ZlXWspk+GML12NcNw4cZiET0Yzm5ltP 97jxismmoKxDPvazIiUy8OSkF8eWBroGVQYrlLrrEbU+3p73ZUWUfrnJnRG+lc7jWKRZ0ar fujd/iAbwFkEXFVmDRPNA== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:WRgCNmSyXi8=;XU0b/D/Ei9fI6apMaavUTHwuLog 8l6lmyf9Q9P8y17Zql2QDs8hsH7VxHKIGHJQNLVlf4+8H1i6SES/RjuZ79re4ZurNy7c6c2Cl jsSvYnNPnvqubdo/2cWo72nFldBBUVjPmOh4//2NADgX+aCm/h1+CAViRRZtWlB2qB0MP8jTk sxo+IoVNG0W+bduQjGZT0R1tyXtqmo7JQYIpsALiuA7W/pc607oO1ouU3SwjVB4kJP9CbgvQj Sk5ZYN6WfaQ61kFLazNXIT1GHPUfovMXSQT4BhWPcUXcCWBUp8oQ94/C52hh/MIT7TbXFvzvE 5d+D2EhOhKCP+UEOT/nKVdEkB93+IYwpS5JcCCGhQmXxthi4YBN4Es+RbkesWxxrX6ZEahNhy odaP7sn4dYgeMxKUMbQRX/D9qgiZ1gO1SvtO2hMqnb5BusZugTOxE3i/i4W3oMrHxELvV4uSf fijTacrNDY/kVAKDyYqZjCWlFpZfqubVjFxVQBVHMWA77+TF0GoEvwWMnOpZTPw6+dQ9854w4 av/oSnXBTQPBu7RbzYDUL/2zw+dThJbgCPIBIFcYIR5/dJsD2ha63BBqWEHcTx+r0Sozfkgb2 QKMpr6DSl7zuIYYf2Rs48Kft7+bMUtSxcvD4UV5w0hPE4Mugx1jaOwhN33JhPruC+wagSKoC7 arC4ktgr7fyqtj1sosntLAGXitwdIuBGEioONYEDVz+DvJNxqqHjj/mz/mDYaDUlsMWze3Jtu 5fIjjtm4JOAlnkQqzrHZ4wKxgtELmOoMo7Ikk2GX6klZ6ZZW7Y052y/KTdrVOS4My9PvD76LH OvF9aO2d6VCRxv+QX/I+1pxNkpdE47Yuib9vHRWOoFecfjBDvlsoTnKP71nuhHpJlVxFSdR2U wULwdIB02bd28Xrsw8R0if759RuBlIuexH2WyEbTpE1DN2JXg5KuyGBswXChO6VjdlW39Cf0G q7gd696PXzW2DPQNq/+DZD7gEmg= X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 14192@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > Thanks for raising your concerns. I think you are broadly correct, so > I'll try harder to be positive when asking for more feedback. > > I'll consider adjusting my standard texts, too. Thanks for considering my suggestion. Instead of staring with "This was N years ago" we could say something like "we are sorry that N years passed without any developer having investigating this problem. Could you please help us and check if the bug is still reproducible for you"? - Something like this maybe. Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 13 20:25:05 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 01:25:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41398 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOpFI-0001fW-PN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 20:25:05 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.12]:35875) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOpFG-0001et-LO for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 20:25:03 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1705195497; x=1705800297; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=b+f6EP+mcfX3MBwVfKi64OEyI0/bg8zdH9EcseUBD5E=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Date; b=fZZHlXVRSUyCXD52urd+YNK2eINxokZUqPnzDkYzXNYDXugP4b/7fFU8cDeFXEzT qSyFtb5czsuVeNve8rIUtu2k/GrzDFuu6auqsx5M6QexJLwuzGqMq0AFR7xJDSRkD pM0c5+qexWP9XxcxWPQApaYyN/ow3B2GqpMiF1S7VdKEuyyxDjRs5Oewim34PfV6C 219fCNs4ISpgoNkBRrouzT+5eqwc2UgVBbbUk3EXs28I0zsvd8cCBIQUcVP15tkx6 Q1kkxl1mEFb0+us+bVuGcFL/f5oz5DQUcmt3/cPTNkQcFPh1dMU+k1V499nQRRtU2 98typJ+B5eN1Yk7JdA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Received: from drachen.dragon ([178.6.28.230]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MI3p7-1rKdqR3vxX-00FGfA; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:24:57 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully In-Reply-To: <83o7drj8r7.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:44:44 +0200") References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> <83o7drj8r7.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:25:20 +0100 Message-ID: <87r0ikln9b.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:JzqMNazv+mWd2k3dUkN0WKS19iD3q7f/e/y2LKDoYoKFhuuA1Mt AaUcpKCRLDBf5VvMcYayska0/RfP0UB9jUHbb25zZaVCmkLcpDO2rDoAc8zmb6HP+sHAIAH UNdUOuv/9SSQQil4Um+d1pjfM5Lg+R/rhIjA2qhJ83so4FTvsSfkCw/Amn6+VBYJlA1eaA8 ytqLOOecdnn6znVBfaOMQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:C+iiqOv+jBo=;TCBQcT1+0MUZeqsT37qtNGTUxbt NTVdDGm9LBPHkeqGD4MYX6yHRNmwOyytQYEEImWzKqEiLjSY3RCHcHJPthW6KqfKT+BwSqKlD s0q879WoNdUQtbY1xqNUJ16tMIx/tbx/UIh9UAAf6PN76Tg2D4SylS+ihmLtyHgq9N6+WELuP 4HzWnjUn9MK4ifxMGSdaI70AuR8DS/7/nNwxgFdagSrNRUrB5e9SVGSVd4Ydi+H7LYG2IVAvX bmL1N9I4lb9jE/DxYPqxjhHhDIEjBF9Qfy5QgOzlI4IGFsar1MzFOsg/K/AWwCBxhDqHqlQc1 Y/W54MoJgJ739DuHQU9Na7bQBH+geY9yMpIwzLorOH/9s312G2vmqqqqqNcwf9kE4PXKmJVR0 Y/gJ/cZuL3091Ieq2DT/LG16Ho91dn2up7iO3XuoRaUvfON1Q3OW46JXUCHUBp0yKQH7Pq3Fl uu85hNR57s+AMN0j65iPvmrTlhpJPjdLo4RQhP7RCZq6+tRPAk+tmaip3gPTZrl2k4cNPdgS1 8kARm58R2DyM8sfD0Spga8uKhqb9qIiqnmFX6R9qS/O3S0U0cbAMnk/lMhnIZOWjxyqjwOLcx 44DoultLHd2EjZJNOT+ghho5GjBfL0nw/IuBu4AVXkFtDXR4nQyyBFOcNRSJL3Qvx+RuQ/BOO 3Hgq3p0dPdj7CZ/P8ZsXceAM1gi+wVROz3ikyn9ATa2DKpe9o/U3I5qHm0GaJ4lcUro8BAZtR MgPirWNXOGLJcIqNxNBAaBlNzWVf4wUSXbh98F1vDatAFXIgPMH/QVm5WorVuIzu2kB9wblF1 PdlfVG8xN1DXgytSKESz/81pwmbmuHA1FgzdhWyM0sTRBQjG7QXMUHevlYx1PDyioabGh8IyG QlAg1J8MS/Qt4hkoRXEpaciJvFLNmpDZy+bjGo8JUG48sznyte3UVJ5BrKxpIeObqz6IwALru PgQMxIJBZoKA8TVan/Z5HF9dvwI= X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > FTR: C-r indeed was not meant to be used to modify the misspelled > word. ispell.el has 'r' and 'R' commands for that. C-r is for > consulting the rest of the text, without modifying it and without > disrupting the spelling session. An alternative is to type 'X', make > any modifications you want, and then resume spelling with "C-u M-$". Thanks - especially for your concretizations of the spell checking related parts in the user manual. I find it an a bit obscure design that there is C-r that reverses edits, then X, which allows to resume the session, and C-g, which doesn't allow resuming. Maybe less commands would suffice. But I don't use ispell often, I can't really tell whether the interface is intuitive, and nobody else seems to be interested in this topic. So, if we don't get any other replies until some more time has passed, I'm ok with closing this one. Thanks, Michael. 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: tags 14192 + moreinfo thanks Content analysis details: (2.0 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stefankangas[at]gmail.com) -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [2a00:1450:4864:20:0:0:0:530 listed in] [list.dnswl.org] 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines -0.0 T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE No description available. X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) tags 14192 + moreinfo thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 14 01:29:58 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 06:29:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41542 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOu0M-0004Jv-HK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:29:58 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47236) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOu0K-0004Jd-Sb for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:29:57 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOu0E-0002xf-QD; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:29:50 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=NQMP+qHu9vzHH1Q2GgjjvsjBXn/6i59SdEjQYzT+Evg=; b=E5Iah7SXZ/W/ 7tKf93P0zi3sHYhFVKU9Es2sjiGbxmkmwmPgbVAO2y1ZuLzQpvMkDqFl9Sz5JDA8ypV3tfFu0J0c1 YI5ohFBCjWNHV2kz+ltXJGnl8aq7unAiQBiiiToM/HNOau3n3zIvwFxBjYr7iLVgrGqFS34ASLNOz CBArA5hlZmir75cmDdea7EebYlXha/lRSbhsZjeoDf7iPPu/022NI8sWgOOSWw+1XYkBTO+ptmi/V L99hin8ZQxkBACQX7TEEe2XcIB9LsSq6BtpKCjFkNRtYO+YB5y531LDIIQbOvfzgdg1qqTna6jAjA arogOOO8JwXHVAhijP3iCQ==; Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:29:33 +0200 Message-Id: <83h6jgfmwi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Michael Heerdegen In-Reply-To: <87r0ikln9b.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:25:20 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> <83o7drj8r7.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0ikln9b.fsf@web.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Michael Heerdegen > Cc: Stefan Kangas , 14192@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:25:20 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > FTR: C-r indeed was not meant to be used to modify the misspelled > > word. ispell.el has 'r' and 'R' commands for that. C-r is for > > consulting the rest of the text, without modifying it and without > > disrupting the spelling session. An alternative is to type 'X', make > > any modifications you want, and then resume spelling with "C-u M-$". > > Thanks - especially for your concretizations of the spell checking > related parts in the user manual. > > I find it an a bit obscure design that there is C-r that reverses edits, > then X, which allows to resume the session, and C-g, which doesn't allow > resuming. Maybe less commands would suffice. But I don't use ispell > often, I can't really tell whether the interface is intuitive, and > nobody else seems to be interested in this topic. I'm not opposed to patches to maybe make the C-r scenario less surprising. But in general, C-r is an obscure command in this case; it isn't an accident that it was not even documented in the user manual until recently. The alternatives described above are IMO better. > So, if we don't get any other replies until some more time has passed, > I'm ok with closing this one. Will do in a week or two. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 16 14:22:48 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jan 2024 19:22:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49797 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rPp1M-0000YW-3I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:22:48 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.14]:37159) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rPp1J-0000YI-Vn for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:22:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1705432958; x=1706037758; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=XS18Sn6jjGM0Vp2EvkEdEsps0hVvu98y0+n8qrXQzFs=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Date; b=q0SYRRgHplFi9GJdwWluI5K538jqwKc4vruLrm7kcSjyIILCqLvE5/9AmfVn5uUU M/z4K5QEGAl+UuhAyblL6gz+QMyQf6QjD2+Hc4Jl3DbZg2/GxM1bicsxi21/0hMy9 OflvJ9dX5pvZYDfiZ4qX+VcJhbQ8H3Yxs9oCuCoRUwx39tQxEBPX6qjL/yPwspv2s NVPD3tOvL+G//hY975xVXxPof/a5IvJnlNtH29NH7I+5kibgRUgRGOXAWpbrLD0aG 74MNutzGBypde5ZBGVpL4AhYLD78gOjlbczUnISuMyBYUQjLDIvhdxZqPsR5gvnjV kY8bxAgl/RrM++rUlg== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Received: from drachen.dragon ([178.6.28.230]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb006 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MQxnv-1rkLs11vpX-00O3My; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 20:22:38 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully In-Reply-To: <83h6jgfmwi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:29:33 +0200") References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> <83o7drj8r7.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0ikln9b.fsf@web.de> <83h6jgfmwi.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 20:23:02 +0100 Message-ID: <87fryxkrqh.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Wep/NcWnVrfG0M8CPVuk5r65I8exja4umMzQ1c1HRNSYchrnRrS AoN1qa8daMvXZhozItObFBg3dNRDSmgiZueJCkRS6DsbG35qIRsmyJPNQ/+oFAYdg/RGwec nb34KZRImWdO97F+TAT+1/kL35b6dBuM/5IK6fVJEA/C6pxskVt8sVdFNLKHT1bq4dAjv4Y Vej+K3yRlvleI+KvrGorA== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:zxD0YzgpzuE=;HZU7PcKwIbIVcQoSFHHy3ElU1I0 c5vOXGflRB45+mnifZ3d8QGmjBfVyIll+RIxusCOZOy/EvgALhEh3ECLsDOUGqDL7CxjFKbW9 KGc52jM7S2/uPF8PUb2fmzMqqnFfF4oGmlcTixaeO5NIXFBqGOdsXtlyYcAKkY6vq+00aYR+l JQHqxmflGR9t0NS4IxYzK22E6iyO9yVp+UASU6UJ5BjShcTt5LYALRXXeauFQ0xnB8eUA0nuY lDmW65uaLw+qQYNPH5tpf1n7E9ZyMaivVyv3WoypsvILuTi7hYen2PbuBuuImxA/9Oij63Mib yVGeDFD10JXlzHxyAb3IQQKAYcu1uxxw8/0ONZfUh38azEZQen8SUh/ka0Dcqr5c65fHpstNe AlIfK0T1JqqCm8rYOjcBiRs3Fmq91aUdTgF/sp8APX/LTrIrGUwnTpTGwciUMSHtacHslG8Gd 0EvIQANquaNSAM0ENuPFrUcaoVbI5LC3iYUSPzyg+qjOaljuLtNBxGwdFggC3xuLeNDvKjy82 u3NILPf2FGUJXxZ8V041eJzJDByNEzGjuh45hmcABAseGfx9cvVr/BCsjepon2zZy0g/+n6Re wZyXAkVdNA5JgmpJ8V3d+EovV2VQ+oG9fWei5cN6j5DV1ZyHs5AskcWDJanAEvrLiyL+GPrJF lw30dKIjA39aaQbrMa5JXICEFmRfQaNo1jRbCsCfNzhnwG/A/h8+HW1kdf9CTzH6UjrRLOnH9 8maiGSdAjiPZGai8SHUqzngHWyZYGQ8Cmls6u8ACR/ojm50xo1jokNtS8DwGEZaS3gP7f9itf JCzdQNbtFctD7660RDhwLXzbTQbR9G4eLLnkZ9MQt10TElaIYSKNOTNrPax4EYFDjr06KtKFq 52Angkf8JqNZHAFHi6kGohPVGMN7i74Y+/VEPSb9pPDPuELCd0p5fP1dtuJWynh5r5P9andJ7 dtuGUzy+rx2Ce2Z8oheoQwvMEFY= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not opposed to patches to maybe make the C-r scenario less > surprising. But in general, C-r is an obscure command in this case; > it isn't an accident that it was not even documented in the user > manual until recently. The alternatives described above are IMO > better. I've thought a while about it, also about improvements. But I too came to the conclusion that the general approach of C-r is not optimal and we already have better alternatives, so I think telling the user to avoid the command and keep it for backward compatibility is the final solution for me. Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 16 14:28:34 2024 Received: (at 14192) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jan 2024 19:28:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49803 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rPp6v-0000hT-SV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:28:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54730) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rPp6t-0000hF-Jq for 14192@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:28:32 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rPp6n-0008Tw-BW; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:28:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=GjGkKhmePnLxf+3j9tlnFBI8crYTqeOhwL0t/Lu92Lw=; b=Y+CnzzQTbPov iIWawBay2axYJbPZ7C64Un6vXLrAxmdpeQZBKTX4xmzCMxFr8M55d2C4IwWaKiWy1ZcV5XQDUVF4w ACktGU72bgFBVKrmoFpXhsF2XHmNxVZgg0LO+N1MeHY/Q5R9f8AcBfapeKoLm5K3tljnsENnx/xAk MoSL+emmYYda8ThPtE52P7PbYKVbIW9nZYXVLh4yU0D9Vimecf+NXnYeSYV5IxK2tPABm+l6FP2gc +0HzmMiKSk9NBFNcnidbSsPYOeEtpYjutfhO8mV7UDLlNtPyuNcC9ii30VvmMxRkQkfOPdkEJQyk5 x4w0z61alSHOWuS+GaXbPQ==; Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 21:28:15 +0200 Message-Id: <83sf2xaxio.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Michael Heerdegen In-Reply-To: <87fryxkrqh.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Tue, 16 Jan 2024 20:23:02 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> <83o7drj8r7.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0ikln9b.fsf@web.de> <83h6jgfmwi.fsf@gnu.org> <87fryxkrqh.fsf@web.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192 Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Michael Heerdegen > Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, 14192@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 20:23:02 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > I'm not opposed to patches to maybe make the C-r scenario less > > surprising. But in general, C-r is an obscure command in this case; > > it isn't an accident that it was not even documented in the user > > manual until recently. The alternatives described above are IMO > > better. > > I've thought a while about it, also about improvements. But I too came > to the conclusion that the general approach of C-r is not optimal and we > already have better alternatives, so I think telling the user to avoid > the command and keep it for backward compatibility is the final solution > for me. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 27 04:10:08 2024 Received: (at 14192-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2024 09:10:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53447 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTehT-000689-P0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 04:10:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52478) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTehS-00067D-FG for 14192-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 04:10:07 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTehG-0008Rw-6z; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 04:09:54 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=UCGqIZ7Az+bjHZS7u2kqYOjyhq/Ggw8UPIt5qt8c4HI=; b=KBpnIeT+CEJD ZvF9ZL9BLFdUhEsLg3BXmk5NY4erlvDoxiMR9uS0L5ogx3yXTvxDTvxU9m8opIC3TaFiphk6CeYei CcMc20ZbL8zzKiNKltfWex22eGEtiVzJK/fof16+dskkIAAIu5vzE4RIyKs4qwmHnAhksFRaGAopk CJSWmU9zIs3S7djAuT2nwzMi3/3no3+vRWxCIf9AZLi/sxyrab/bYOtKUxJ3H5PIhwhfEuH9/RUi9 tj4WuqYTxfFga56FoMcQMsIxoK/PnxqxvkzS5bxPK6vQl0RBeSEPFrUlzMnyDF1LP5tSVaxThRzaz aAa8xWodiB3wLgWTnGyHeQ==; Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 11:09:52 +0200 Message-Id: <86zfwr87mn.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: michael_heerdegen@web.de In-Reply-To: <83h6jgfmwi.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:29:33 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#14192: 24.3.50; recursive edit while running ispell not working usefully References: <87hajbkd3v.fsf@web.de> <87ppxzd75p.fsf@web.de> <87mstc5zpt.fsf@web.de> <83o7drj8r7.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0ikln9b.fsf@web.de> <83h6jgfmwi.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14192-done Cc: 14192-done@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 14192@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:29:33 +0200 > From: Eli Zaretskii > > > From: Michael Heerdegen > > Cc: Stefan Kangas , 14192@debbugs.gnu.org > > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:25:20 +0100 > > > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > > > FTR: C-r indeed was not meant to be used to modify the misspelled > > > word. ispell.el has 'r' and 'R' commands for that. C-r is for > > > consulting the rest of the text, without modifying it and without > > > disrupting the spelling session. An alternative is to type 'X', make > > > any modifications you want, and then resume spelling with "C-u M-$". > > > > Thanks - especially for your concretizations of the spell checking > > related parts in the user manual. > > > > I find it an a bit obscure design that there is C-r that reverses edits, > > then X, which allows to resume the session, and C-g, which doesn't allow > > resuming. Maybe less commands would suffice. But I don't use ispell > > often, I can't really tell whether the interface is intuitive, and > > nobody else seems to be interested in this topic. > > I'm not opposed to patches to maybe make the C-r scenario less > surprising. But in general, C-r is an obscure command in this case; > it isn't an accident that it was not even documented in the user > manual until recently. The alternatives described above are IMO > better. > > > So, if we don't get any other replies until some more time has passed, > > I'm ok with closing this one. > > Will do in a week or two. Done. From unknown Fri Aug 15 18:08:53 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2024 12:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator