From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:49:00 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#14130: 24.3.50; doc/help for advice and advised functions Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 15:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 14130 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 14130@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.136500223611102 (code B ref -1); Wed, 03 Apr 2013 15:18:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Apr 2013 15:17:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60184 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPR4-0002t0-UT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:17:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53692) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPR1-0002sp-Qb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:17:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPO0-0006WF-VS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:14:06 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:35042) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPO0-0006WA-Sp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:14:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36812) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPNy-0007WQ-O7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:14:04 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPNx-0006VR-JK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:14:02 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:42738) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPNx-0006VK-Ck for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:14:01 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r33FDxFi022544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:14:00 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r33FDw3U013713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:13:59 GMT Received: from abhmt120.oracle.com (abhmt120.oracle.com [141.146.116.72]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r33FDwbb027128 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2013 10:13:58 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.8) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 08:13:58 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 08:13:57 -0700 Message-ID: <5BF8E36FD3EF4D1BBE8A1E79A0DCC421@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac4wfdy930R4na8WQOSntaGqcY4Kkw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) Mostly an enhancement request, I guess, but partly a bug report. 1. (elisp) `Advising Functions' Says "Note that enabling a piece of advice and activating advice for a function are not the same thing." But it does not say clearly what the difference is. It says only this: a. A piece of advice can be "enabled"/"disabled". It does not explain what this means. b. Advice takes effect only if both enabled and activated. That's pretty incomplete. The difference between these two things (enabling, activating) is presumably important, and it is not made clear. It is not enough to tell users not to confuse the two, without telling them clearly what the difference is. Start with this question: What is the purpose of each of them (enabling, activating)? 2. The definition of "forward advice", and the *important* fact that you can advise a function without the function being defined yet, should be moved from (elisp) `Defining Advice' to (elisp) `Advising Functions'. It is not a detail concerning just the keyword `activate'. (Note too that there is zero use of or reference to "forward advice" in the manual.) 3. If these concepts apply also to the new advice facility written by Stefan, then please keep this request in mind in that context: document each of the various states of a piece of advice (enabled but not activated etc.) etc. (And where is the doc for that new facility?) In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2013-03-28 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 112173 monnier@iro.umontreal.ca-20130328163306-419khox8aneaoaxv Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -IC:/Devel/emacs/build/include --ldflags -LC:/Devel/emacs/build/lib' From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:49:00 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: "Drew Adams" Subject: bug#14130: closed (Re: bug#14130: 24.3.50; doc/help for advice and advised functions) Message-ID: References: <5BF8E36FD3EF4D1BBE8A1E79A0DCC421@us.oracle.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 14130 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 14130@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 17:16:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1632590163-18050-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1632590163-18050-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #14130: 24.3.50; doc/help for advice and advised functions which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 14130@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 14130: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D14130 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1632590163-18050-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 14130-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 17:15:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34553 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUBGc-0004ey-GT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:15:14 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f50.google.com ([209.85.216.50]:42864) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUBGb-0004eh-9B for 14130-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:15:13 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f50.google.com with SMTP id rm6-20020a17090b3ec600b0019ece2bdd20so279840pjb.1 for <14130-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AFIjG1N6pmlOEfys5lnE0HCWFQDPzO+2RrY7LEHOiXE=; b=g2KlebORjLWJMAoXjVAx6hmOVtYaSVKzncmkqz7Yo2KfkdIoitVzWTcTSC159jmDSD oFYEbIDWQpsxcfES/R/2CCBoezmeHGXbwc9mnpkjyYK196XhYWucIzjhGseWQPwkZLPU mLPc6LSbCp9tQIqsSUFgcotaglvReRdo5Ix/o6sdijchhwr0FkQguWWQskc6euDZAk/8 BfHmXSAHo44bkijOKAQiz2V/Baa8oeKNBGvfRibaydc0yWjMKYX9KFd5ptZdzHXOtBSU sdlsn5V6WTo0tRvSYBnojCo7bUO8kvHUPkD8QydML1DRn3jIbEhv0NA9yNHSCEKW3H1y 1YlA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533VhWUiYllnq8vGQ3oeKZK0d01XbRFZP+DRGp01u7GZ+uE4lEBu rS9Off/DrLjBX7b23YEl04/900rCxfiNyhfTkKE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzdsD6jfqRAOHcgiQXf2erhSZ0aArSLX3DRcvI06JKd7c7xARpVBcp8Dm7S34uifwwPEM4JpMpayPSnRDXZl3U= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3805:: with SMTP id mq5mr9278211pjb.143.1632590107298; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:06 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <5BF8E36FD3EF4D1BBE8A1E79A0DCC421@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 3 Apr 2013 08:13:57 -0700") References: <5BF8E36FD3EF4D1BBE8A1E79A0DCC421@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:06 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#14130: 24.3.50; doc/help for advice and advised functions To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 14130-done Cc: 14130-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) "Drew Adams" writes: > Mostly an enhancement request, I guess, but partly a bug report. > > 1. (elisp) `Advising Functions' > > Says "Note that enabling a piece of advice and activating advice for a > function are not the same thing." But it does not say clearly what the > difference is. It says only this: > > a. A piece of advice can be "enabled"/"disabled". It does not explain > what this means. > > b. Advice takes effect only if both enabled and activated. > > That's pretty incomplete. The difference between these two things > (enabling, activating) is presumably important, and it is not made > clear. It is not enough to tell users not to confuse the two, without > telling them clearly what the difference is. Start with this question: > What is the purpose of each of them (enabling, activating)? > > 2. The definition of "forward advice", and the *important* fact that you > can advise a function without the function being defined yet, should be > moved from (elisp) `Defining Advice' to (elisp) `Advising Functions'. > It is not a detail concerning just the keyword `activate'. (Note too > that there is zero use of or reference to "forward advice" in the > manual.) > > 3. If these concepts apply also to the new advice facility written by > Stefan, then please keep this request in mind in that context: document > each of the various states of a piece of advice (enabled but not > activated etc.) etc. (And where is the doc for that new facility?) Since the above was reported, this entire section seems to have been rewritten. I can't find any of the problematic text reported above in the new manual. I'm therefore closing this bug report. If this conclusion is incorrect and this is still an issue, please reply to this email (use "Reply to all" in your email client) and we can reopen the bug report. ------------=_1632590163-18050-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Apr 2013 15:17:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60184 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPR4-0002t0-UT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:17:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53692) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPR1-0002sp-Qb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:17:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPO0-0006WF-VS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:14:06 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:35042) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPO0-0006WA-Sp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:14:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36812) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPNy-0007WQ-O7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:14:04 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPNx-0006VR-JK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:14:02 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:42738) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNPNx-0006VK-Ck for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:14:01 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r33FDxFi022544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:14:00 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r33FDw3U013713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:13:59 GMT Received: from abhmt120.oracle.com (abhmt120.oracle.com [141.146.116.72]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r33FDwbb027128 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2013 10:13:58 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.8) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 08:13:58 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.3.50; doc/help for advice and advised functions Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 08:13:57 -0700 Message-ID: <5BF8E36FD3EF4D1BBE8A1E79A0DCC421@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac4wfdy930R4na8WQOSntaGqcY4Kkw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) Mostly an enhancement request, I guess, but partly a bug report. 1. (elisp) `Advising Functions' Says "Note that enabling a piece of advice and activating advice for a function are not the same thing." But it does not say clearly what the difference is. It says only this: a. A piece of advice can be "enabled"/"disabled". It does not explain what this means. b. Advice takes effect only if both enabled and activated. That's pretty incomplete. The difference between these two things (enabling, activating) is presumably important, and it is not made clear. It is not enough to tell users not to confuse the two, without telling them clearly what the difference is. Start with this question: What is the purpose of each of them (enabling, activating)? 2. The definition of "forward advice", and the *important* fact that you can advise a function without the function being defined yet, should be moved from (elisp) `Defining Advice' to (elisp) `Advising Functions'. It is not a detail concerning just the keyword `activate'. (Note too that there is zero use of or reference to "forward advice" in the manual.) 3. If these concepts apply also to the new advice facility written by Stefan, then please keep this request in mind in that context: document each of the various states of a piece of advice (enabled but not activated etc.) etc. (And where is the doc for that new facility?) In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2013-03-28 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 112173 monnier@iro.umontreal.ca-20130328163306-419khox8aneaoaxv Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -IC:/Devel/emacs/build/include --ldflags -LC:/Devel/emacs/build/lib' ------------=_1632590163-18050-1--