From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 15 07:04:49 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Mar 2013 11:04:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55515 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UGSRN-0000Yq-Az for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:04:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48711) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UGSRJ-0000Ya-TL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:04:46 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UGSPG-0004Kg-0u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:03:24 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:48201) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UGSPF-0004KW-UF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:02:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59743) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UGSOW-00042S-CR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:02:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UGSNn-00048o-SG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:01:52 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:51818) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UGSNn-00048e-M6; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:01:07 -0400 Received: from frontend1.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.180]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ZS3kB2YXZz4KK6t; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:01:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ZS3k96MR5zbbvd; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:01:05 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.180]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id liyYMAKbZuYg; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:01:04 +0100 (CET) X-Auth-Info: S0tfk6Vj2Bo8xXzbgBlH/3smH6NYWVrq5je24aWZchM= Received: from igel.home (ppp-88-217-124-87.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.124.87]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:01:04 +0100 (CET) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 501) id F0652CA2B4; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:01:03 +0100 (CET) From: Andreas Schwab To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo X-Yow: Th' PINK SOCK... soaking... soaking... soaking... Th' PINK SOCK... washing... washing... washing... Th' PINK SOCK... rinsing... rinsing... rinsing... Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:01:03 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-texinfo@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Both emacs and texinfo install the info.info info file. This needs to be resolved. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 18 15:43:13 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Mar 2013 19:43:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34058 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UHfxh-0005bQ-Bv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:43:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45008) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UHfxe-0005bD-Qi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:43:11 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UHfw1-0002VO-6R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:41:30 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:44187) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UHfw1-0002VH-34 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:41:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56336) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UHfvz-0007Mm-L6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:41:29 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UHfvx-0002U4-4Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:41:27 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([66.54.153.139]:59522 helo=freefriends.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UHfvw-0002Tt-Tm; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:41:25 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r2IJ01JD006039; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:00:01 -0600 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.6/8.14.6/submit) id r2IJ01cW006036; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 19:00:01 GMT Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 19:00:01 GMT Message-Id: <201303181900.r2IJ01cW006036@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: nobody set sender to karl@freefriends.org using -f From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bug-texinfo@gnu.org Subject: Re: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Both emacs and texinfo install the info.info info file. This needs to be resolved. Fine, I'll remove it from Texinfo, since in practice info.texi has been maintained in Emacs for many years. (I've been copying it from the latest Emacs distribution before making a Texinfo release.) k From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 29 21:01:45 2013 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Mar 2013 01:01:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51677 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ULkAz-00009Z-2T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:01:45 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:40634) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ULkAx-00009T-Mc for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:01:44 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ULk8P-0008Pu-3N for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:59:05 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:59:05 -0400 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 14064 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) merge 13965 14064 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 29 21:05:18 2013 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Mar 2013 01:05:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51684 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ULkEP-0000Fs-Ar for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:05:17 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:40735) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ULkEN-0000Fh-H7 for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:05:16 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ULkBo-0001NP-1v; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:02:36 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <201303181900.r2IJ01cW006036@freefriends.org> X-Spook: pipeline cypherpunk broadside Dick Cheney SP4 SAFE X-Ran: qMz0|lps@MtJ.P=[n^]Z!tN0#K&j%%pRiJ~#Mpbj^[,waR^35ob4j,'2-K5HAJ~H;H+.aB X-Hue: black X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:02:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: <201303181900.r2IJ01cW006036@freefriends.org> (Karl Berry's message of "Mon, 18 Mar 2013 19:00:01 GMT") Message-ID: <0nsj3daedw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-texinfo@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) Karl Berry wrote: > Both emacs and texinfo install the info.info info file. This needs to > be resolved. Why does it matter? It is the same file, just provided by two packages. > Fine, I'll remove it from Texinfo, since in practice info.texi has been > maintained in Emacs for many years. Oh, it has? :) It seems slightly weird for me if the canonical home for info.texi becomes Emacs rather than Texinfo... Not that it changes very often, but AFAIK no-one here at Emacs was paying particular attention to it wrt accuracy, bugs, etc. > (I've been copying it from the latest Emacs distribution before > making a Texinfo release.) :) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 29 21:05:26 2013 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Mar 2013 01:05:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51687 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ULkEY-0000GC-0A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:05:26 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:40739) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ULkEX-0000G6-7J for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:05:25 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ULkBy-0001rU-Jj for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:02:46 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:02:46 -0400 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 13965 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) severity 13965 minor From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 29 21:09:54 2013 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Mar 2013 01:09:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51698 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ULkIq-0000Nr-JR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:09:53 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:40781) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ULkIo-0000Ng-V6 for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:09:51 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ULkGF-0004kl-8L; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:07:11 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <201303181900.r2IJ01cW006036@freefriends.org> <0nsj3daedw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: cypherpunk DES Freeh lynch mindwar Rubin codes Aladdin X-Ran: l~#~Bm(=Q_n2^;tyW>`0X\'B.x_ov{-Op?,UMD-,g91e5sX&1zr!dt*-'9N?`$VbN$1bHe X-Hue: magenta X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:07:11 -0400 In-Reply-To: <0nsj3daedw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:02:35 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-texinfo@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) PS AFAIK, the only reason it is in Emacs is because of MS Windows users. I doubt anyone on POSIX platforms uses info pages without having texinfo installed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 30 01:39:01 2013 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Mar 2013 05:39:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51910 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ULoVJ-00023b-1f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2013 01:39:01 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:37928) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ULoVG-00023Q-8g for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2013 01:38:59 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MKG00D00KHEI500@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2013 08:36:17 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MKG00D25KWGDT60@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 30 Mar 2013 08:36:17 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 08:36:39 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Glenn Morris Message-id: <83sj3d4ffc.fsf@gnu.org> References: <201303181900.r2IJ01cW006036@freefriends.org> <0nsj3daedw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: bug-texinfo@gnu.org, 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, karl@freefriends.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) > From: Glenn Morris > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:07:11 -0400 > Cc: 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-texinfo@gnu.org > > > PS AFAIK, the only reason it is in Emacs is because of MS Windows users. > I doubt anyone on POSIX platforms uses info pages without having texinfo > installed. I think it's for anyone who doesn't have Texinfo installed. I agree that Windows users are more likely to not have it, though. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 31 19:24:39 2013 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2013 23:24:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54864 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UMRc6-0006sv-V6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:24:39 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([66.54.153.139]:50332 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UMRc5-0006sn-2J for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:24:37 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r2VNLkdF020804; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 17:21:46 -0600 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.6/8.14.6/submit) id r2VNLkox020803; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 23:21:46 GMT Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 23:21:46 GMT Message-Id: <201303312321.r2VNLkox020803@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: nobody set sender to karl@freefriends.org using -f From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) To: rgm@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo In-Reply-To: <0nsj3daedw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-texinfo@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) Hi Glenn, Why does it matter? It is the same file, just provided by two packages. I know. I keep them synced. It's Andreas's request, not mine. The current situation is totally not a problem in my own life, but I can imagine it creating a discrepancy when there is version skew and a new version of texinfo|emacs is released and has a different version of info.texi than the existing installed emacs|texinfo on the system. Oh, it has? :) Yes, it has. The few changes that have been made in the past N years have been made in Emacs. If I had anything to change, I would change it in Emacs too. karl From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 01 03:14:38 2013 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Apr 2013 07:14:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55321 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UMYwv-0002TE-IO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Apr 2013 03:14:38 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:50910) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UMYws-0002T4-2v for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Apr 2013 03:14:36 -0400 Received: from frontend1.mail.m-online.net (frontend1.mail.intern.m-online.net [192.168.8.180]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ZfPqd32s5z3hhgQ; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 09:11:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ZfPqd1G4LzbdsF; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 09:11:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.180]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24GBlQSb7T-h; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 09:11:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: sb9TeRA/xLuqy9dUUN9rUE0qnaix1z7hQvofE0tjed8= Received: from linux.local (ppp-88-217-115-29.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.115.29]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 09:11:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: by linux.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id C52ED1E5576; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 09:11:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <201303312321.r2VNLkox020803@freefriends.org> X-Yow: Ask me the DIFFERENCE between PHIL SILVERS and ALEXANDER HAIG!! Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 09:11:48 +0200 In-Reply-To: <201303312321.r2VNLkox020803@freefriends.org> (Karl Berry's message of "Sun, 31 Mar 2013 23:21:46 GMT") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-texinfo@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) writes: > I know. I keep them synced. No, you don't. --- texinfo-5.1/doc/info.texi 2013-02-19 23:25:28.000000000 +0100 +++ emacs-24.3/doc/misc/info.texi 2013-01-01 21:37:17.000000000 +0100 @@ -14,25 +14,18 @@ This file describes how to use Info, the on-line, menu-driven GNU documentation system. -Copyright @copyright{} 1989, 1992, 1996-2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc. +Copyright @copyright{} 1989, 1992, 1996--2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc. @quotation Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.3 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no -Invariant Sections, with the Front-Cover texts being ``A GNU -Manual,'' and with the Back-Cover Texts as in (a) below. A copy of the -license is included in the section entitled ``GNU Free Documentation -License'' in the Emacs manual. +Invariant Sections, with the Front-Cover texts being ``A GNU Manual,'' +and with the Back-Cover Texts as in (a) below. A copy of the license +is included in the section entitled ``GNU Free Documentation License''. (a) The FSF's Back-Cover Text is: ``You have the freedom to copy and -modify this GNU manual. Buying copies from the FSF supports it in -developing GNU and promoting software freedom.'' - -This document is part of a collection distributed under the GNU Free -Documentation License. If you want to distribute this document -separately from the collection, you can do so by adding a copy of the -license to the document, as described in section 6 of the license. +modify this GNU manual.'' @end quotation @end copying @@ -78,12 +71,13 @@ @end ifinfo @end ifnottex -@insertcopying +@insertcopying @menu * Getting Started:: Getting started using an Info reader. * Advanced:: Advanced Info commands. * Expert Info:: Info commands for experts. +* GNU Free Documentation License:: The license for this documentation. * Index:: An index of topics, commands, and variables. @end menu @@ -264,7 +258,7 @@ @format >> If you are in Emacs and have a mouse, and if you already practiced - typing @kbd{n} to get to the next node, click now with the left + typing @kbd{n} to get to the next node, click now with the left mouse button on the @samp{Next} link to do the same ``the mouse way''. @end format @@ -324,7 +318,7 @@ we call ``Backspace or DEL'' in this manual is labeled differently on different keyboards. Look for a key which is a little ways above the @key{ENTER} or @key{RET} key and which you normally use outside Emacs -to erase the character before the cursor, i.e.@: the character you +to erase the character before the cursor, i.e., the character you typed last. It might be labeled @samp{Backspace} or @samp{<-} or @samp{DEL}, or sometimes @samp{Delete}.} and @kbd{b} commands exist to allow you to ``move around'' in a node that does not all fit on the @@ -1504,6 +1498,10 @@ To check an Info file, do @kbd{M-x Info-validate} while looking at any node of the file with Emacs Info mode. +@node GNU Free Documentation License +@appendix GNU Free Documentation License +@include doclicense.texi + @node Index @unnumbered Index Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 01 18:37:23 2013 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Apr 2013 22:37:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56673 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UMnLu-0002IT-Q5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Apr 2013 18:37:22 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([66.54.153.139]:57031 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UMnLs-0002IM-7L for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Apr 2013 18:37:21 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r31MYOC2023984; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 16:34:24 -0600 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.6/8.14.6/submit) id r31MYN0N023983; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 22:34:23 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 22:34:23 GMT Message-Id: <201304012234.r31MYN0N023983@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: nobody set sender to karl@freefriends.org using -f From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) To: schwab@linux-m68k.org Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-texinfo@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) No, you don't. Evidently I messed up for texinfo 5.1. Sorry. Shoot me. +@include doclicense.texi How about naming the file fdl.texi, like virtually every other package does? k From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 02 03:46:48 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Apr 2013 07:46:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57129 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UMvvX-0008C5-46 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 03:46:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55235) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UMvvO-0008Bo-V2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 03:46:41 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UMvsU-0001Be-Rd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 03:43:37 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:54335) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UMvsU-0001Ba-OS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 03:43:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38334) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UMvsN-00072Q-A3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 03:43:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UMvsI-00015Y-W1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 03:43:27 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:59287) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UMvsI-000153-Np for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 03:43:22 -0400 Received: from int-mx11.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx11.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.24]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r327hKKZ006696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2013 03:43:20 -0400 Received: from kiasportyw.brq.redhat.com (unused-4-188.brq.redhat.com [10.34.4.188]) by int-mx11.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r327hJgQ031503 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2013 03:43:19 -0400 Message-ID: <515A8C16.2000805@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 09:43:18 +0200 From: Petr Hracek User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130311 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <201303312321.r2VNLkox020803@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.24 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) thank you for that patch. Does it mean that info.texi will be delivered by Emacs instead of texlive? At the begging of that "bug" was mentioned that info.texi should be part of texlive. I am little bit confused what is final solution. From last messages of that thread is seen that info.texi will be part of emacs package definitelly, right? S pozdravem / Best regards Petr Hracek On 04/01/2013 09:11 AM, Andreas Schwab wrote: > karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) writes: > >> I know. I keep them synced. > No, you don't. > > --- texinfo-5.1/doc/info.texi 2013-02-19 23:25:28.000000000 +0100 > +++ emacs-24.3/doc/misc/info.texi 2013-01-01 21:37:17.000000000 +0100 > @@ -14,25 +14,18 @@ > This file describes how to use Info, the on-line, menu-driven GNU > documentation system. > > -Copyright @copyright{} 1989, 1992, 1996-2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > +Copyright @copyright{} 1989, 1992, 1996--2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > @quotation > Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document > under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.3 or > any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no > -Invariant Sections, with the Front-Cover texts being ``A GNU > -Manual,'' and with the Back-Cover Texts as in (a) below. A copy of the > -license is included in the section entitled ``GNU Free Documentation > -License'' in the Emacs manual. > +Invariant Sections, with the Front-Cover texts being ``A GNU Manual,'' > +and with the Back-Cover Texts as in (a) below. A copy of the license > +is included in the section entitled ``GNU Free Documentation License''. > > (a) The FSF's Back-Cover Text is: ``You have the freedom to copy and > -modify this GNU manual. Buying copies from the FSF supports it in > -developing GNU and promoting software freedom.'' > - > -This document is part of a collection distributed under the GNU Free > -Documentation License. If you want to distribute this document > -separately from the collection, you can do so by adding a copy of the > -license to the document, as described in section 6 of the license. > +modify this GNU manual.'' > @end quotation > @end copying > > @@ -78,12 +71,13 @@ > @end ifinfo > @end ifnottex > > -@insertcopying > +@insertcopying > > @menu > * Getting Started:: Getting started using an Info reader. > * Advanced:: Advanced Info commands. > * Expert Info:: Info commands for experts. > +* GNU Free Documentation License:: The license for this documentation. > * Index:: An index of topics, commands, and variables. > @end menu > > @@ -264,7 +258,7 @@ > > @format > >> If you are in Emacs and have a mouse, and if you already practiced > - typing @kbd{n} to get to the next node, click now with the left > + typing @kbd{n} to get to the next node, click now with the left > mouse button on the @samp{Next} link to do the same ``the mouse way''. > @end format > > @@ -324,7 +318,7 @@ > we call ``Backspace or DEL'' in this manual is labeled differently on > different keyboards. Look for a key which is a little ways above the > @key{ENTER} or @key{RET} key and which you normally use outside Emacs > -to erase the character before the cursor, i.e.@: the character you > +to erase the character before the cursor, i.e., the character you > typed last. It might be labeled @samp{Backspace} or @samp{<-} or > @samp{DEL}, or sometimes @samp{Delete}.} and @kbd{b} commands exist to > allow you to ``move around'' in a node that does not all fit on the > @@ -1504,6 +1498,10 @@ > To check an Info file, do @kbd{M-x Info-validate} while looking at any > node of the file with Emacs Info mode. > > +@node GNU Free Documentation License > +@appendix GNU Free Documentation License > +@include doclicense.texi > + > @node Index > @unnumbered Index > > > Andreas. > From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 02 12:15:59 2013 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Apr 2013 16:15:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58388 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UN3sL-0004pk-Gg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:15:59 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:33731) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UN3sI-0004pa-1u for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:15:55 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UN3pM-0003Zu-Jh; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:12:52 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <201304012234.r31MYN0N023983@freefriends.org> X-Spook: SDI assassination Etacs electronic surveillance data X-Ran: -C)_[Xs/~*;]IZy]"V:@-LH0{BN;_uUaUbNez\lk%"/K3Hu@C<&L4Fsj@L*=:&p\I%zPY1 X-Hue: black X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:12:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: <201304012234.r31MYN0N023983@freefriends.org> (Karl Berry's message of "Mon, 1 Apr 2013 22:34:23 GMT") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-texinfo@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -9.2 (---------) Karl Berry wrote: > +@include doclicense.texi > > How about naming the file fdl.texi, like virtually every other package does? If it really helps you, we could rename it. We'll have to change 58 files, several of which also live in other repositories. It won't make any difference to this issue (I assume), because it is info.info that is the problem, not info.texi. So I think you could just live with that difference. And in any case, trying to make the Texinfo and Emacs info.infos literally identical is never going to work IMO. We can never be sure that the installed versions of Texinfo and Emacs are going to match. My suggestion is that you and Emacs do nothing, and leave the people packaging Texinfo and Emacs to sort this out. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 02 12:19:39 2013 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Apr 2013 16:19:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58394 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UN3vt-0004vF-SJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:19:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:33782) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UN3vq-0004v6-PV for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:19:35 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UN3sw-0003wX-Tx; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:16:34 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Petr Hracek Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <201303312321.r2VNLkox020803@freefriends.org> <515A8C16.2000805@redhat.com> X-Spook: Crypto AG oil advisors propaganda threat Elvis world X-Ran: cAIH$9h6_VT4s]$fwDe,bB{oeedc3eu|T1/$a>};T~zq%D$icr8d=Y2!u~b~Ibd&I (Petr Hracek's message of "Tue, 02 Apr 2013 09:43:18 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: 13965@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -9.2 (---------) Petr Hracek wrote: > Does it mean that info.texi will be delivered by Emacs instead of texlive? > At the begging of that "bug" was mentioned that info.texi should be > part of texlive. Texinfo, not texlive. > I am little bit confused what is final solution. > > From last messages of that thread is seen that info.texi will be part > of emacs package definitelly, right? My suggestion is that you just unconditionally remove info.info from the files that the Emacs rpm installs. It makes sense for both upstreams to have it, but if that causes problems for you, I think the better home for it is the Texinfo rpm. Maybe make the Emacs rpm suggest Texinfo? (Probably not worth bothering.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 02 17:28:20 2013 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Apr 2013 21:28:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58718 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UN8kd-0006pQ-JE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:28:20 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([66.54.153.139]:37472 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UN8ka-0006pG-9j for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:28:17 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r32LPEWv015515; Tue, 2 Apr 2013 15:25:15 -0600 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.6/8.14.6/submit) id r32LPEU4015513; Tue, 2 Apr 2013 21:25:14 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 21:25:14 GMT Message-Id: <201304022125.r32LPEU4015513@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: nobody set sender to karl@freefriends.org using -f From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) To: rgm@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-texinfo@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) If it really helps you, we could rename it. Well, obviously it is not a stopper. I can edit the file when I import it and ignore that difference. We'll have to change 58 files, several of which also live in other repositories. The point is that nearly every other package in GNU uses fdl.texi (as far as I have seen). Why should Emacs use a different name for the file? It just seems wrong. It won't make any difference to this issue (I assume), Indeed. k From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 02 20:27:30 2013 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Apr 2013 00:27:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58881 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UNBY2-0002cD-5Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 20:27:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:42432) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UNBY0-0002c5-Ck for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 20:27:28 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNBV4-0005Q6-S8; Tue, 02 Apr 2013 20:24:26 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <201304022125.r32LPEU4015513@freefriends.org> X-Spook: BRLO Vince Foster Centro Attorney General mindwar NORAD X-Ran: -@<@si"kecfbA'H~+3t'w0g[*Q:B+l*),[lhR_ti[mOPX.*uQ54%u"~i'Ph1?$U\KEnE.P X-Hue: blue X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 20:24:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: <201304022125.r32LPEU4015513@freefriends.org> (Karl Berry's message of "Tue, 2 Apr 2013 21:25:14 GMT") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-texinfo@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -9.2 (---------) Karl Berry wrote: > The point is that nearly every other package in GNU uses fdl.texi (as > far as I have seen). Why should Emacs use a different name for the > file? No reason other than history/inertia AFAIK. It's always been "doclicense.texi", for ~ 13 years now. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 03 07:16:57 2013 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Apr 2013 11:16:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59431 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UNLgW-0002lI-Lf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 07:16:57 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:28765) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UNLgT-0002l6-Ls for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 07:16:55 -0400 Received: from int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.23]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r33BDmEd028705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 3 Apr 2013 07:13:49 -0400 Received: from kiasportyw.brq.redhat.com (unused-4-188.brq.redhat.com [10.34.4.188]) by int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r33BDgnV020968; Wed, 3 Apr 2013 07:13:43 -0400 Message-ID: <515C0EE6.2000804@redhat.com> Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 13:13:42 +0200 From: Petr Hracek User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130311 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <201303312321.r2VNLkox020803@freefriends.org> <515A8C16.2000805@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.23 X-Spam-Score: -7.3 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: Andreas Schwab , 13965@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -9.2 (---------) you are right, texinfo. emacs rpm package depends on texinfo and therefore info.info.gz page will be removed from emacs package. What about patch which delivered Andreas? info.texi was removed from texinfo-5.1? --- texinfo-5.1/doc/info.texi 2013-02-19 23:25:28.000000000 +0100 +++ emacs-24.3/doc/misc/info.texi 2013-01-01 21:37:17.000000000 +0100 I think that there will be inconsistency. I think that info.texi should be part of texinfo, right? @Andreas: did you apply that patch on emacs trunk? Cool and thanks:) S pozdravem / Best regards Petr Hracek On 04/02/2013 06:16 PM, Glenn Morris wrote: > Petr Hracek wrote: > >> Does it mean that info.texi will be delivered by Emacs instead of texlive? >> At the begging of that "bug" was mentioned that info.texi should be >> part of texlive. > Texinfo, not texlive. > >> I am little bit confused what is final solution. >> >> From last messages of that thread is seen that info.texi will be part >> of emacs package definitelly, right? > My suggestion is that you just unconditionally remove info.info from the > files that the Emacs rpm installs. It makes sense for both upstreams to > have it, but if that causes problems for you, I think the better home > for it is the Texinfo rpm. Maybe make the Emacs rpm suggest Texinfo? > (Probably not worth bothering.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 05 13:31:20 2013 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Apr 2013 17:31:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35819 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UOATv-000430-MZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2013 13:31:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:54030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UOATt-00042t-Tc for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2013 13:31:18 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UOAQj-0003gA-3r for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2013 13:28:01 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 13:28:01 -0400 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 14064 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -7.4 (-------) tag 14064 wontfix From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:17:03 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 04 May 2013 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 15 17:14:31 2015 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2015 21:14:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52707 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zmpr5-0001z0-EJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:14:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58919) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zmpr3-0001ys-2E for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:14:29 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zmpr2-0005cL-B9 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:14:28 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57175) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zmpr2-0005cH-8L for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:14:28 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1Zmpr1-0005ua-Qd for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:14:27 -0400 Subject: control message for bug 13965 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:14:27 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) unarchive 13965 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 17 15:55:39 2015 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Oct 2015 19:55:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54638 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnXZq-0003fR-Pn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:55:39 -0400 Received: from mail-yk0-f169.google.com ([209.85.160.169]:35981) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnXZn-0003fI-Lx for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:55:36 -0400 Received: by ykdz2 with SMTP id z2so27613190ykd.3 for <13965@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:55:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=h5QqW2fVKQnnMb13unRP3iCSI8AA6DqB05sPFans/sI=; b=RXWDzcIzT77YzoZFVgfBOsiQHmBSYRdJetIkmeu0q6q9wgnXfU3xWQ11tnaX3Orloa jZZQVmT4hulPh7hYn5PRhqH6iqVYVJaJjnjFfshnfOwqEviyKRxYhYwuRObvSgHddB1i YSudTifIq1eh4LJm/xsZsfE02e7GYjFWrHpJzhGRoBxG1jvYW5x7YhWQzmn1J71yoOMH UXHteneybwCdxWFcyIoi13YUbD36/4Xh4w+mcIR9GfNUazg5OOTggTuUvKmLLo1Ei2Ay yVQPGLny4fhSvnAv9fShySNBq/dfoqvnfvc5deZ46/S5VG3YGk7rOjaq0yNX4TGJgnpX HZzQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.13.224.3 with SMTP id j3mr14976511ywe.246.1445111734708; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.207.132 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:55:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8761276fgh.fsf@igel.home> References: <20130318230008.GD31358@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <86d2uwl2mu.fsf@frenzy.freefriends.org> <8761276fgh.fsf@igel.home> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 20:55:34 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo From: Gavin Smith To: Andreas Schwab Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, Texinfo , Karl Berry X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) On 15 October 2015 at 21:31, Andreas Schwab wrote: > Karl Berry writes: > >> It's fine with me for it to be maintained in texinfo, but if the Emacs >> people are happy with that. Andreas? >> >> For myself, I don't actually care what happens, if anything - included >> in Emacs, included in Texinfo, included in both, it's all the same to >> me. Whatever everyone will be satisfied with ... > > This is still not resolved. Having it installed by different packages > is bad since you get a file conflict. I've removed it from Texinfo, for now. Unless it's changed back, the file will not be present in the next Texinfo release. PS last time I copied debbugs the mail bounced, saying the bug was closed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 17 17:39:08 2015 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Oct 2015 21:39:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54645 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnZBz-00061N-Vb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:39:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36508) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnZBx-00061E-Gx for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:39:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnZBw-0005yC-Ab for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:39:05 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:34008) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnZBl-0005wa-IS; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:38:53 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnZBk-0006Nb-HQ; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:38:52 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Gavin Smith Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <20130318230008.GD31358@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <86d2uwl2mu.fsf@frenzy.freefriends.org> <8761276fgh.fsf@igel.home> X-Spook: U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services al-Qa'ida X-Ran: JDFc4)9T1W0_`+0R_z[DmBa?.k|EfL:~XoqZuVhZ@nMzlD0JtApntAUY:sExEh,$iP`GlZ X-Hue: magenta X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:38:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Gavin Smith's message of "Sat, 17 Oct 2015 20:55:34 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: Texinfo , Andreas Schwab , 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, Karl Berry X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Gavin Smith wrote: > I've removed it from Texinfo, for now. Unless it's changed back, the > file will not be present in the next Texinfo release. I'm sure there are many systems where Texinfo is installed and Emacs is not. How are people on those systems supposed to learn how to use the stand-alone info reader? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 17 18:28:10 2015 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Oct 2015 22:28:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54655 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnZxS-00078P-8N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 18:28:10 -0400 Received: from mail-yk0-f177.google.com ([209.85.160.177]:34388) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnZxP-00078F-GU for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 18:28:08 -0400 Received: by ykfy204 with SMTP id y204so114039083ykf.1 for <13965@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:28:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=h7A2/F/g4V03Y5/lYw8gMryQrsu9MSIYS6XGzwSGi7A=; b=yw46lkVC7qj37EOeEHhtPRlvXPGo+XdHPuMiwQLTxNQlsugIN23v/8V/MDPfg5azGP y3QiFRMuquQfx3MrfOGAiZyg6jD05P/wnv2TZ8mPeSld4be0kxUWuqf+qMeh2k8RniFs wxG9prZnhmWPfd1EHqbYgdypYA2UZ2drxz9oTkjPnLFa1rGhxf1/BATkXw/k0rJINmgY jSqoCAzQNByuS4PO0LdpsfsO8KLMmcsUu+4pS6JSmLOR9XkO8xfldKe6iW/INU4Ifg8l nyTcLc63Av45lZ/4a9s6Y3gJvab88Q+nWl4XcJHRj1AfFR7mQrlWWJ4HcRVJ+5Lnxt77 UoWw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.13.223.134 with SMTP id i128mr16392387ywe.64.1445120886740; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:28:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.207.132 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:28:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20130318230008.GD31358@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <86d2uwl2mu.fsf@frenzy.freefriends.org> <8761276fgh.fsf@igel.home> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 23:28:06 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo From: Gavin Smith To: Glenn Morris Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: Texinfo , Andreas Schwab , 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, Karl Berry X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) On 17 October 2015 at 22:38, Glenn Morris wrote: > Gavin Smith wrote: > >> I've removed it from Texinfo, for now. Unless it's changed back, the >> file will not be present in the next Texinfo release. > > I'm sure there are many systems where Texinfo is installed and Emacs is not. > How are people on those systems supposed to learn how to use the > stand-alone info reader? It has its own manual. It doesn't have a tutorial, though. This would have to be added. It shouldn't be hard to cover the absolute minimum needed to be able to navigate through the rest of the manual. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 18 14:05:38 2015 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Oct 2015 18:05:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55358 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnsKv-00042V-Qj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 14:05:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47836) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnsKu-00042N-DJ for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 14:05:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnsKs-00006k-Sf for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 14:05:36 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:50455) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnsKr-00006T-Bz; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 14:05:33 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnsKo-0001Jp-0t; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 14:05:30 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Gavin Smith Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <20130318230008.GD31358@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <86d2uwl2mu.fsf@frenzy.freefriends.org> <8761276fgh.fsf@igel.home> X-Spook: Sonora LLNL PET Michoacna electronic surveillance USSS X-Ran: R3|slqFg&N{5)j}?*\(:|@"~z@-FMsk?6T*qKvcw"MoDTu~4.*;nomYV[(uXl[,;{7!k~J X-Hue: red X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 14:05:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Gavin Smith's message of "Sat, 17 Oct 2015 23:28:06 +0100") Message-ID: <0q1tcs3vdi.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: Karl Berry , Andreas Schwab , 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, Texinfo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Gavin Smith wrote: >> I'm sure there are many systems where Texinfo is installed and Emacs is not. >> How are people on those systems supposed to learn how to use the >> stand-alone info reader? > > It has its own manual. It doesn't have a tutorial, though. This would > have to be added. It shouldn't be hard to cover the absolute minimum > needed to be able to navigate through the rest of the manual. info.info is obviously written to benefit users of both Emacs info and stand-alone info. It seems weird to me to delete it from Texinfo just for the sake of a distribution packing issue that i) doesn't occur on Debian-based systems (http://debbugs.gnu.org/14064#30) ii) was solved two-years ago on RedHat-based systems in the rpm https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=927996#c11 If I were packaging Emacs for a distribution (let me randomly say SUSE), I'd resolve this issue in the packaging step. But I'm just repeating myself (http://debbugs.gnu.org/14064#33). Obviously it's your decision. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 18 15:29:02 2015 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Oct 2015 19:29:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55377 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zntde-0005yR-6f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:29:02 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:45433) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zntdb-0005yA-6e for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:29:00 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3nfB953DcXz3hncF; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 21:28:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3nfB950y17zvh1q; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 21:28:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IdrGvv7gGPDe; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 21:28:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: AxE4d560Z/tgPeQv6xF0+pUCZaJJgBQo49VedT5TC6H80TB9mMQNsR1g9ajtsrQ0 Received: from igel.home (host-188-174-205-76.customer.m-online.net [188.174.205.76]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 21:28:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 642C82C35D0; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 21:28:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <20130318230008.GD31358@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <86d2uwl2mu.fsf@frenzy.freefriends.org> <8761276fgh.fsf@igel.home> <0q1tcs3vdi.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Yow: Did YOU find a DIGITAL WATCH in YOUR box of VELVEETA? Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 21:28:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: <0q1tcs3vdi.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Sun, 18 Oct 2015 14:05:29 -0400") Message-ID: <874mho7z7t.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: Karl Berry , Gavin Smith , 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, Texinfo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Glenn Morris writes: > i) doesn't occur on Debian-based systems > (http://debbugs.gnu.org/14064#30) Wrong. You get different behaviour depending on how you search for info files. > ii) was solved two-years ago on RedHat-based systems in the rpm > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=927996#c11 This is even worse: two files with the same menu entry in the same info directory. > If I were packaging Emacs for a distribution (let me randomly say SUSE), > I'd resolve this issue in the packaging step. But I'm just repeating > myself (http://debbugs.gnu.org/14064#33). Obviously it's your decision. Two packages fighting for the same file is bad. Each time one package is installed the other one is overwritten. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 18 15:31:51 2015 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Oct 2015 19:31:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55383 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntgM-00065B-DB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:31:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37631) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntgI-000650-1w for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:31:46 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntgG-0004ke-RI for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:31:45 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51680) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zntg9-0004ZB-4D; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:31:37 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1Zntg8-0004dZ-4H; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:31:36 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Gavin Smith Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <20130318230008.GD31358@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <86d2uwl2mu.fsf@frenzy.freefriends.org> <8761276fgh.fsf@igel.home> <0q1tcs3vdi.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: AVN AFSPC high security Kh-11 secure LABLINK blackjack X-Ran: :xbeOxbI)KXTF+7H:J;Tf&3Ya($s"v X-Hue: blue X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:31:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: <0q1tcs3vdi.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Sun, 18 Oct 2015 14:05:29 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: Karl Berry , Andreas Schwab , Texinfo , 13965@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Glenn Morris wrote: > ii) was solved two-years ago on RedHat-based systems in the rpm > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=927996#c11 PS I don't think that's a great solution, but I guess it's good enough. So if there's any interest in Texinfo retaining info.info, then Andreas, I suggest you make that change in the Emacs sources (ie, make Emacs install plain "info", like it used to, not "info.info"). But if no-one feels that Texinfo needs it, then no need to bother. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 18 15:35:00 2015 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Oct 2015 19:35:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55387 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntjQ-0006A1-7I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:35:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38116) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntjN-00069s-RN for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:34:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntjM-0005PX-VQ for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:34:57 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51715) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntjJ-0005Ny-8s; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:34:53 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntjI-0000ak-2m; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:34:52 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <20130318230008.GD31358@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <86d2uwl2mu.fsf@frenzy.freefriends.org> <8761276fgh.fsf@igel.home> <0q1tcs3vdi.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <874mho7z7t.fsf@igel.home> X-Spook: Abbas Saddam Hussein CIS Belknap JFK Riot National Guard X-Ran: @1qG<$xl#z+O3bbsfDxwE-^P*[?bMOax}iccFLOS_E#vA01fD):|[[/ (Andreas Schwab's message of "Sun, 18 Oct 2015 21:28:54 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: Karl Berry , Gavin Smith , 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, Texinfo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Andreas Schwab wrote: > Two packages fighting for the same file is bad. Someone once told me that these things happen, and should be solved in the packages, not the source. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2014-03/msg01211.html From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 18 15:41:33 2015 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Oct 2015 19:41:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55403 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zntpk-0006K5-Gk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:41:32 -0400 Received: from mail-yk0-f176.google.com ([209.85.160.176]:33888) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zntpi-0006Ju-3N for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:41:30 -0400 Received: by ykfy204 with SMTP id y204so125680491ykf.1 for <13965@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=iU4f81ngumbce/4e9RmlTbkRZfjV1elE0UHVC9+e01g=; b=QTtd7sgl+QH2POu/Y1RRANOAGHlunEwx+d28bVuTedRYpYaNLWz+6kyAOQm8uqXV+k sXKq/3SqwFsfUNOtcek+zgqMSjQ7mSz3p5lmH+m2PMNy9DauFGotIlAlgL7xm0XNQBzW OdzqgdNepxdiRc2m1inaSewbHNA6ec7oQbQ+EsOz8i5pVUgSzCS/0xhoSHJ8Im5wbtjG qCMUyyPCw3l22Xw0gUn21vLMwqmj6KpRbanyDT2r7bLpavq6tAFo+ew66qfV/dr3eCi0 esMsFzl3vcblm8MWLTM8ZIQAhek6EGAaFZGKUL056sPRUJuhT9KUcM6OWcbIBvV41XcM 2NRQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.13.223.134 with SMTP id i128mr19150281ywe.64.1445197289597; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.207.132 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0q1tcs3vdi.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20130318230008.GD31358@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <86d2uwl2mu.fsf@frenzy.freefriends.org> <8761276fgh.fsf@igel.home> <0q1tcs3vdi.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 20:41:29 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo From: Gavin Smith To: Glenn Morris Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: Karl Berry , Andreas Schwab , 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, Texinfo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) On 18 October 2015 at 19:05, Glenn Morris wrote: > Gavin Smith wrote: > >>> I'm sure there are many systems where Texinfo is installed and Emacs is not. >>> How are people on those systems supposed to learn how to use the >>> stand-alone info reader? >> >> It has its own manual. It doesn't have a tutorial, though. This would >> have to be added. It shouldn't be hard to cover the absolute minimum >> needed to be able to navigate through the rest of the manual. > > info.info is obviously written to benefit users of both Emacs info and > stand-alone info. It seems weird to me to delete it from Texinfo just > for the sake of a distribution packing issue that > > i) doesn't occur on Debian-based systems > (http://debbugs.gnu.org/14064#30) > > ii) was solved two-years ago on RedHat-based systems in the rpm > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=927996#c11 > > If I were packaging Emacs for a distribution (let me randomly say SUSE), > I'd resolve this issue in the packaging step. But I'm just repeating > myself (http://debbugs.gnu.org/14064#33). Obviously it's your decision. Not everyone installs programs via middlemen distributors all the time. They may download and install a release tarball directly. Evidently it's a problem for some people, sometimes. For example, you might install a Texinfo release with an older version of info.info included and overwrite an up-to-date version that came with the version of Emacs you're using. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 18 15:44:17 2015 Received: (at 13965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Oct 2015 19:44:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55408 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntsP-0006OP-82 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:44:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40974) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntsN-0006OH-Sr for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:44:16 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntsM-0008CQ-RF for 13965@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:44:15 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51868) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntsL-0008Bo-Ci; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:44:13 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ZntsK-0006Jd-EK; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:44:12 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Gavin Smith Subject: Re: bug#13965: info.info conflict between emacs and texinfo References: <20130318230008.GD31358@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <86d2uwl2mu.fsf@frenzy.freefriends.org> <8761276fgh.fsf@igel.home> <0q1tcs3vdi.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: AVIP Biological infection Compsec IMF AQIM Infection X-Ran: [/4+{fe,JH1P^bp\]4,n!~y)Qfee&isE5`MI}!l#SuKngVa+wf(eU)8[mJ;2&Y{5y_^CW/ X-Hue: red X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:44:12 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:31:35 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13965 Cc: Karl Berry , Andreas Schwab , 13965@debbugs.gnu.org, Texinfo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) PPS Personally speaking, if I were packaging Emacs for a distribution, I'd remove info.info from the installed files, and (probably) make the Emacs package depend on the (in comparison tiny) Info package that provides it. (It seems to be basically an essential package anyway, on Red Hat at least). From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:17:03 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator