From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:17:59 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13915: 24.3.50; `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' - really obsolete? Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 13915 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 13915@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.136292928427015 (code B ref -1); Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:29:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Mar 2013 15:28:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44028 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UEiAN-00071f-Ey for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:28:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43369) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UEiAK-00071A-5z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:28:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEi9Q-00085X-QR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:27:05 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:35890) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEi9Q-00085T-NF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:27:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54730) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEi9P-00058w-Lk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:27:04 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEi9O-000855-3c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:27:03 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:28962) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEi9N-00084q-SA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:27:02 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r2AFQxR6020953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:27:00 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r2AFQxTB019692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:26:59 GMT Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2AFQxYM009977 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 10:26:59 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:26:58 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:26:44 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac4do6wpvzKCxtq6TCahV5FYLhyfEw== X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) NEWS says that the variable is obsolete, and font-lock.el says that this is so since 24.1: (make-obsolete-variable 'font-lock-syntactic-keywords 'syntax-propertize-function "24.1") But font-lock.el uses it, with no apparent attempt to do without it. If the very file that declares it obsolete cannot be updated to reflect that, why tell users they should consider it obsolete? The description in NEWS does not make clear, to me at least, how use of the variable should be replaced. If I see how that gets done in font-lock.el then perhaps I will understand better. If not, it sounds like not practicing what you preach. Or perhaps making the change is not so simple? There are only a few lines in font-lock.el that involve `font-lock-syntactic-keywords'. If these were not changed when it was declared obsolete, and still have not been, 2 or 3 releases later, is that a sign that something is not quite right? Seems like those few lines would have been fixed immediately. Now, presumably some of them are there for backward compatibility. But I don't get the impression that they all are, or even that most of them are. Seems like the switchover to the new was simply not finished. It would be helpful too if the NEWS description provided more guidance wrt replacing use of the obsolete variable with use of the new. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2013-03-04 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 111935 yamaoka@jpl.org-20130304102733-4qy111z41qwoh2as Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -IC:/Devel/emacs/build/include --ldflags -LC:/Devel/emacs/build/lib' From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:17:59 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.428 (Entity 5.428) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: "Drew Adams" Subject: bug#13915: closed (Re: bug#13915: 24.3.50; `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' - really obsolete?) Message-ID: References: X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 13915 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 13915@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 01:24:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1362965042-16261-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1362965042-16261-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #13915: 24.3.50; `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' - really obsolete? which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 13915@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 13915: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D13915 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1362965042-16261-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 13915-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2013 01:23:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44811 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UErSn-0004Di-Qh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 21:23:41 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:30867) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UErSm-0004DW-Ip for 13915-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 21:23:40 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFFFxIY4/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSQsh3IGwS2RCgOkeoFegxM X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFFFxIY4/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSQsh3IGwS2RCgOkeoFegxM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="3975521" Received: from 69-196-134-56.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.196.134.56]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 10 Mar 2013 21:22:41 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 952A967970; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 21:22:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#13915: 24.3.50; `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' - really obsolete? Message-ID: References: Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 21:22:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:26:44 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13915-done Cc: 13915-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) > If the very file that declares it obsolete cannot be updated to reflect > that, why tell users they should consider it obsolete? Hi Drew! How's life on your side of the world? Oh, and by the way, what would you say if we removed support for font-lock-syntactic-keywords without first marking it obsolete? Hmm... thought so, Stefan ------------=_1362965042-16261-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Mar 2013 15:28:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44028 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UEiAN-00071f-Ey for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:28:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43369) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UEiAK-00071A-5z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:28:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEi9Q-00085X-QR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:27:05 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:35890) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEi9Q-00085T-NF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:27:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54730) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEi9P-00058w-Lk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:27:04 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEi9O-000855-3c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:27:03 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:28962) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEi9N-00084q-SA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:27:02 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r2AFQxR6020953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:27:00 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r2AFQxTB019692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:26:59 GMT Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2AFQxYM009977 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 10:26:59 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:26:58 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.3.50; `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' - really obsolete? Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:26:44 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac4do6wpvzKCxtq6TCahV5FYLhyfEw== X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) NEWS says that the variable is obsolete, and font-lock.el says that this is so since 24.1: (make-obsolete-variable 'font-lock-syntactic-keywords 'syntax-propertize-function "24.1") But font-lock.el uses it, with no apparent attempt to do without it. If the very file that declares it obsolete cannot be updated to reflect that, why tell users they should consider it obsolete? The description in NEWS does not make clear, to me at least, how use of the variable should be replaced. If I see how that gets done in font-lock.el then perhaps I will understand better. If not, it sounds like not practicing what you preach. Or perhaps making the change is not so simple? There are only a few lines in font-lock.el that involve `font-lock-syntactic-keywords'. If these were not changed when it was declared obsolete, and still have not been, 2 or 3 releases later, is that a sign that something is not quite right? Seems like those few lines would have been fixed immediately. Now, presumably some of them are there for backward compatibility. But I don't get the impression that they all are, or even that most of them are. Seems like the switchover to the new was simply not finished. It would be helpful too if the NEWS description provided more guidance wrt replacing use of the obsolete variable with use of the new. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2013-03-04 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 111935 yamaoka@jpl.org-20130304102733-4qy111z41qwoh2as Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -IC:/Devel/emacs/build/include --ldflags -LC:/Devel/emacs/build/lib' ------------=_1362965042-16261-1-- From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:17:59 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13915: 24.3.50; `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' - really obsolete? Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 03:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13915 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Cc: 13915@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13915-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13915.136297372232359 (code B ref 13915); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 03:49:01 +0000 Received: (at 13915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2013 03:48:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44946 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UEtj8-0008Ps-8t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 23:48:42 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:41186) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UEtj5-0008Pf-8Z for 13915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 23:48:40 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r2B3lerE001752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 03:47:41 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r2B3ldeE015675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 03:47:40 GMT Received: from abhmt114.oracle.com (abhmt114.oracle.com [141.146.116.66]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2B3lcQV024320; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 22:47:39 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 20:47:38 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 20:47:22 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac4d9u+kS6H2ccU3QcaNbRfHD95OSgAEEGDw X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) > > If the very file that declares it obsolete cannot be > > updated to reflect that, why tell users they should > > consider it obsolete? > > Hi Drew! How's life on your side of the world? > Oh, and by the way, what would you say if we removed support for > font-lock-syntactic-keywords without first marking it obsolete? > > Hmm... thought so, No one suggested that you should remove support for it before marking it obsolete! You are right to suppose that I would never have suggested such a thing. So why bring it up as a straw man? But perhaps it says something that that was your only reaction to the bug report, though that was not at all what the report was about. What do you think? 1. NEWS does not make clear how to change code that currently uses `font-lock-syntactic-keywords'. 2. `font-lock.el' does not make that clear either, as it has itself apparently not been so converted. I made clear that some of the occurrences in `font-lock.el' obviously provide ongoing support for it. But only a few of them, would be my guess. Am I wrong about that? 3. You closed the bug. `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' was marked obsolete in 24.1. 24.3 has now been released. 4. But the 24.3 NEWS is no clearer about this. Both the 24.3 Elisp manual and the 24.3 font-lock.el Commentary and doc strings still speak mainly of `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' (`syntax-propertize-function' is barely present in font-lock.el). As before. Users are not helped any more than before wrt converting code that uses `font-lock-syntactic-keywords'. That's what this bug report is about. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:17:59 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13915: 24.3.50; `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' - really obsolete? Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:45:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13915 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 13915@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13915-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13915.13630346882374 (code B ref 13915); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:45:04 +0000 Received: (at 13915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2013 20:44:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46874 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UF9aR-0000cF-U6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:44:48 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:12452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UF9aQ-0000c3-3I for 13915@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:44:46 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFHO+KL9/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHgbBLZEKA6R6gV6DEw X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFHO+KL9/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHgbBLZEKA6R6gV6DEw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="4285347" Received: from 206-248-162-253.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([206.248.162.253]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 11 Mar 2013 16:43:42 -0400 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 9E53D660E5; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:43:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:43:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 10 Mar 2013 20:47:22 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > No one suggested that you should remove support for it before marking it > obsolete! You are right to suppose that I would never have suggested such a > thing. So why bring it up as a straw man? Because the "uses" you seem to see in font-lock.el are just the code that *implements* font-lock-syntactic-keywords. None of it *uses* it. So removing those "uses" would remove support for it. Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:17:59 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13915: 24.3.50; `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' - really obsolete? Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 21:07:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13915 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Cc: 13915@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13915-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13915.13630359674327 (code B ref 13915); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 21:07:01 +0000 Received: (at 13915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2013 21:06:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46918 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UF9v4-00017h-9l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:06:07 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:23189) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UF9v1-00017D-LF for 13915@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:06:04 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r2BL50Ul023460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 21:05:01 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r2BL4xAf022076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 21:05:00 GMT Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2BL4xsx011312; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:04:59 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.8) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:04:59 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:04:58 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac4emSDVkPk7JS7XT8uT2EH7woHpGgAAJMhQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.7 (----) > > No one suggested that you should remove support for it before > > marking it obsolete! You are right to suppose that I would > > never have suggested such a thing. So why bring it up as a > > straw man? > > Because the "uses" you seem to see in font-lock.el are just the code > that *implements* font-lock-syntactic-keywords. None of it *uses* it. > So removing those "uses" would remove support for it. I would humbly suggest that most of the occurrences (I did not refer to the occurrences as "*uses*", so your quotes are inaccurate here) are vestigial, in doc strings. They do not *implement* `font-lock-syntactic-keywords'. And I was clear that any occurrences that remain to *implement* the old should of course remain. Since a preferred replacement has already been implemented, that (the new, not the old) is what should be mentioned, above all, in the doc strings. That is not the case. That is the point about `font-lock.el' occurrences. But the *important* point is what the bug report is really about: >> 4. But the 24.3 NEWS is no clearer about this. Both the 24.3 >> Elisp manual and the 24.3 font-lock.el Commentary and doc strings >> still speak mainly of `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' >> (`syntax-propertize-function' is barely present in font-lock.el). >> >> As before. >> >> Users are not helped any more than before wrt converting code >> that uses `font-lock-syntactic-keywords'. >> >> That's what this bug report is about. If you update the NEWS & the manual & the doc strings, and leave the code as is to support both old and new, then the bug will be fixed. The NEWS, in particular, should tell users how to replace the old with the new. It is no help wrt that, so far. It is clearly not as simple as substituting one (a function) for the other (a variable). It's about helping users. If I did not find this unclear myself I would not have taken the time to file the bug (and reply to your (so far) sarcastic and unhelpful replies). From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:17:59 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13915: 24.3.50; `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' - really obsolete? Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 02:51:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13915 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 13915-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13915-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D13915.13630566536358 (code D ref 13915); Tue, 12 Mar 2013 02:51:01 +0000 Received: (at 13915-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Mar 2013 02:50:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47211 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UFFIj-0001eV-Ij for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:50:53 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:6365) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UFFIi-0001eI-2x for 13915-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:50:52 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFHO+KL9/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHgbBLY4uglwDpHqBXoJqKQ X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFHO+KL9/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHgbBLY4uglwDpHqBXoJqKQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="4365330" Received: from 206-248-162-253.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([206.248.162.253]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 11 Mar 2013 22:49:47 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id D8486AE219; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:49:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:49:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:04:58 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > But the *important* point is what the bug report is really about: Then please make another bug report where you focus on what the bug is about. It's taking too much time to figure that out in too many of your reports. Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:17:59 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13915: 24.3.50; `font-lock-syntactic-keywords' - really obsolete? Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 05:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13915 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Cc: 13915@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13915-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13915.136306667026803 (code B ref 13915); Tue, 12 Mar 2013 05:38:02 +0000 Received: (at 13915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Mar 2013 05:37:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47399 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UFHuH-0006yG-AT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:37:49 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:42198) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UFHuE-0006y2-U0 for 13915@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:37:47 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r2C5agGJ013145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Mar 2013 05:36:42 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r2C5afSJ015948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 Mar 2013 05:36:42 GMT Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2C5afwe007136; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 00:36:41 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:36:41 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:36:38 -0700 Message-ID: <63DAF2C60610498C9ED54FF5435FAA18@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac4ezERl/KzXjs3gQ2+8XIlmvYHYtgAFbt0A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) > > But the *important* point is what the bug report is really about: > > Then please make another bug report where you focus on what the bug > is about. It's taking too much time to figure that out in too many of > your reports. This bug report focuses on it quite clearly, from beginning to end. If it is really taking time for you to figure it out, that is apparently because you are belaboring it and mocking. You have already made clear that you are not interested in fixing it, and you have closed it. If you want to play games and create another bug about it, go right ahead. If you change your mind and decide to fix it, that will be helpful and constructive. Start with the NEWS, giving users some useful, operational info about replacing the old with the new.