From unknown Wed Sep 10 01:08:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13912: Feedback on coreutils 8.13 Resent-From: "Ellis N. Thomas" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 19:20:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 13912 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 13912@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.136285676410348 (code B ref -1); Sat, 09 Mar 2013 19:20:05 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Mar 2013 19:19:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42203 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UEPIh-0002gr-UO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 14:19:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52566) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UEMZ7-0006HC-4L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 11:24:10 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEMYD-0000Gu-MO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 11:23:20 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:52256) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEMYD-0000Gq-JK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 11:23:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35658) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEMY6-0006S5-98 for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 11:23:13 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEMXx-0000EM-Ht for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 11:23:06 -0500 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]:9999) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEMXx-0000Dp-9A for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 11:22:57 -0500 Received: from aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20130309162255.VPDP1579.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 16:22:55 +0000 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (really [86.13.144.237]) by aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.3.00.04.00 201-2196-133-20080908) with ESMTP id <20130309162254.HOUG12753.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[10.0.1.2]> for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 16:22:54 +0000 Message-Id: From: "Ellis N. Thomas" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 16:22:52 +0000 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=AUhbpHVS+xhHrj9wLCYAQoYnFLYUZdbP8UM0GmH2jwk= c=1 sm=0 a=uObrxnre4hsA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=NLZqzBF-AAAA:8 a=8RYC6WX49ZgglCic68EA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=si4TY0shoVkA:10 a=ii61gXl28gQA:10 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 14:19:19 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) Notes on installation of coreutils 8.13 To: 1. Introduction The purpose of this feedback is to notify some difficulties encountered with coreutils. As explained below, the release used was NOT the latest, so it is quite likely that these matters have been previously addressed. On the other hand, it is possible that installation has not been attempted for this actual Unix version. In trying to obtain the latest Ada compiler from Gnu, there had previously been some initial problems concerning missing facilities in the Unix version on this iMac. Running Mac OS X: System Version: Mac OS X 10.5.8 (9L30) Kernel Version: Darwin 9.8.0 >uname -mpv Darwin Kernel Version 9.8.0: Wed Jul 15 16:55:01 PDT 2009; root:xnu-1228.15.4~1/RELEASE_I386 i386 i386 The download of gcc-4.7.2 made in Feb-2013 included a file MD5SUMS to verify the correct transfer of the files. However, the suggested usage of md5sum failed as this command was not available! Investigation on the Gnu website showed that this is available in coreutils, but there seemed to be no way of downloading this alone, so downloaded version 8.21 from the ftp area (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/coreutils/). However, these are xz versions and there seems to be no support for that format on this machine. The latest gz was 8.13 from Sep 2011, so also downloaded version 8.13, and proceeded trying to install this. This feedback concerns the following points. - Incomplete information provided in the INSTALL plus README files - Some problems with configure - An error reported by make check. - No test failure as reported in README for Mac OS X 10.5.1 (Darwin 9.1). The information is supplied in the hope that it might be useful to developers. 2. Information in the INSTALL plus README files Referred to coreutils-8.13/INSTALL and coreutils-8.13/README. Because only md5sum was required, tried to establish how to obtain this alone. In the INSTALL it says: **** From INSTALL **** Some packages pay attention to `--enable-FEATURE' options to `configure', where FEATURE indicates an optional part of the package. They may also pay attention to `--with-PACKAGE' options **** End from INSTALL **** and it also says: **** From INSTALL **** The `README' should mention any `--enable-' and `--with-' options that the package recognizes. **** End from INSTALL **** However, the README does NOT clarify this. From the configure --help, it was established that there is also a --without-PACKAGE option. Initially tried ./configure --enable-md5sum but this gave configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --enable-md5sum and proceeded anyway. When `make' was run, many errors were reported, concerning expr.c (see next section). Since these concern the expr command which was not really needed, tried repeating ./configure using --without-PACKAGE ./configure --without-expr Ran, but gave: configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --without-expr It would help if the README covered the options that actually apply (see also next section). 3. Some problems with configure Retried make, redirecting the output to a log file. The errors in expr were more extensive than realised before. The first error is expr.c:54:18: error: gmp.h: No such file or directory It seems that configure has made an incorrect decision about the availability of gmp, which is not available (but is placed ready to be installed along with the gcc sources. It had previously been established that it was a Prerequisite). Noted that config.status has D["HAVE_GMP"]=" 1" and the expr.c source tests this. It seems that configure has incorrectly decided that gmp is available, and expr.c fails to find the header, and all other errors arise from this. Since the expr.c source allowed for the test failing, it seemed possible to proceed without gmp. So config.status was modified so that D["HAVE_GMP"]=" 0" Reran make, redirecting the output to a log file. This ran OK. It was only later that it was realised that configure --help included: **** From --help **** --without-gmp do not use the GNU MP library for arbitrary precision calculation (default: use it if available) **** End from --help **** The optional nature of gmp and this option ought to be included in the README. However, the decision made by configure "use it if available" still seems incorrect. 4. An error reported by make check. Tried `make check'. Ran to completion, recording one failure FAIL: install/install-C There was also a log in tests/test-suite.log, but it seemed to be removed later by make clean. The `make installcheck' has not been done. If it is of help to you, then this can be done, or partially done, to identify the exact failure. 5. Test failure reported in README There is a test failure in 'make check' reported in README concerning Mac OS X 10.5.1 (Darwin 9.1). This concerns ACL support, and suggests using --disable-acl. This machine has Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Darwin 9.8.0). The 'make check' was performed without having done --disable-acl, but the "numerous failures" stated did not arise, although there was one error (see previous section). The tests were done as a normal user (not root), but having the privilege to use sudo (not used at this point). The different effect for this Mac version might or might not be of relevance to Gnu developers! 6. Summary This report applies to an old version of coreutils, 8.13. The following points were observed - more details above. - Incomplete information provided in the INSTALL plus README files - Some problems with configure - An error reported by make check. - No test failure as reported in README for Mac OS X 10.5.1 (Darwin 9.1). In addition, the reason for using coreutils 8.1, was that version 8.21 had only are xz versions of the files and there seems to be no support for that format on this machine. It would help if the Gnu website had further information about handling xz, or continued to support gz. For example, when gcc was downloaded as gcc-4.7.2, this still provided gz versions. Further, it would help if it was possible to select specific parts of coreutils, and the README described how to do this. On an existing Unix system, like Darwin, many of these programs are already available If extra information about the matters reported above would be of value please contact: ExtraLeveLInSoftware@ntlworld.com Ellis N. Thomas/ 9-Mar-2013 From unknown Wed Sep 10 01:08:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13912: Feedback on coreutils 8.13 References: Resent-From: "Alan Curry" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 22:39:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13912 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: ExtraLeveLInSoftware@ntlworld.com (Ellis N. Thomas) Cc: 13912@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13912-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13912.136286873731442 (code B ref 13912); Sat, 09 Mar 2013 22:39:01 +0000 Received: (at 13912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Mar 2013 22:38:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42403 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UESPo-0008B4-Kk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 17:38:57 -0500 Received: from c-67-162-91-36.hsd1.in.comcast.net ([67.162.91.36]:54268 helo=kosh.dhis.org ident=qmailr) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UESPl-0008Aw-LG for 13912@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 17:38:54 -0500 Received: (qmail 2605 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Mar 2013 22:38:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20130309223807.2604.qmail@kosh.dhis.org> From: "Alan Curry" Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 17:38:07 -0500 (GMT+5) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Ellis N. Thomas writes: > > Notes on installation of coreutils 8.13 Thanks for writing up your experience. Even though it's mostly a series of bad choices, they were choices that only an outsider would make, so they do reveal things that the insiders haven't thought of. 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Ellis N. Thomas writes: > > Notes on installation of coreutils 8.13 Thanks for writing up your experience. Even though it's mostly a series of bad choices, they were choices that only an outsider would make, so they do reveal things that the insiders haven't thought of. [...] Content analysis details: (2.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 3.3 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL [67.162.91.36 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL RBL: SORBS: sent directly from dynamic IP address [67.162.91.36 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 1.0 RDNS_DYNAMIC Delivered to internal network by host with dynamic-looking rDNS Ellis N. Thomas writes: > > Notes on installation of coreutils 8.13 Thanks for writing up your experience. Even though it's mostly a series of bad choices, they were choices that only an outsider would make, so they do reveal things that the insiders haven't thought of. > > System Version: Mac OS X 10.5.8 (9L30) > Kernel Version: Darwin 9.8.0 > >uname -mpv > Darwin Kernel Version 9.8.0: Wed Jul 15 16:55:01 PDT 2009; > root:xnu-1228.15.4~1/RELEASE_I386 i386 i386 > > The download of gcc-4.7.2 made in Feb-2013 included a file MD5SUMS to > verify the correct transfer of the files. However, the suggested usage of > md5sum failed as this command was not available! Investigation on the Gnu I found this surprising. I would have expected md5sum to be installed with the OS. So I googled "md5sum macos" and the first result is a page with installation instructions for a standalone package called "md5sha1sum". That would probably be easier to install than coreutils, since it's much smaller. I wonder how you managed to skip over it. Not important though; compiling coreutils shouldn't be hard. > website showed that this is available in coreutils, but there seemed to be > no way of downloading this alone, so downloaded version 8.21 from the ftp > area (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/coreutils/). However, these are xz versions > and there seems to be no support for that format on this machine. The This sounds very familiar to me. At one point I already had all these compressor/decompressors installed: 7zr bzip2 compress gzip lzop p7zip zip and coreutils decided to make YET ANOTHER ONE (xz) mandatory. "Compression format of the week" is a frustrating game! So I completely understand your decision that... > latest gz was 8.13 from Sep 2011, so also downloaded version 8.13, and > proceeded trying to install this. ...the only way to win is not to play. (If you did choose to play, googling "macos xz" looks promising.) Moving on: > > **** From INSTALL **** > The `README' should mention any `--enable-' and `--with-' options that the > package recognizes. > **** End from INSTALL **** > > However, the README does NOT clarify this. This is clearly a bug. INSTALL lies about the contents of README. I think this should be fixed by modifying README to fulfill the promise. It's possible to find the --with options in the output of configure --help but having them in the README, with more verbose explanations, would be nice. > > From the configure --help, it was established that there is also > a --without-PACKAGE option. The thing about configure --help is that it's too short. It's too short because it's trying not to be too long (and somehow failing at that too). Here's the section of configure --help from coreutils 8.13 (it's practically identical to 8.21): :Optional Packages: : --with-PACKAGE[=ARG] use PACKAGE [ARG=yes] : --without-PACKAGE do not use PACKAGE (same as --with-PACKAGE=no) : --with-gnu-ld assume the C compiler uses GNU ld default=no : --with-libiconv-prefix[=DIR] search for libiconv in DIR/include and DIR/lib : --without-libiconv-prefix don't search for libiconv in includedir and libdir : --with-libpth-prefix[=DIR] search for libpth in DIR/include and DIR/lib : --without-libpth-prefix don't search for libpth in includedir and libdir : --without-included-regex : don't compile regex; this is the default on systems : with recent-enough versions of the GNU C Library : (use with caution on other systems). : --without-selinux do not use SELinux, even on systems with SELinux : --with-packager String identifying the packager of this software : --with-packager-version Packager-specific version information : --with-packager-bug-reports : Packager info for bug reports (URL/e-mail/...) : --with-tty-group[=NAME] : group used by system for TTYs, "tty" when not : specified (default: do not rely on any group used : for TTYs) : --without-gmp do not use the GNU MP library for arbitrary : precision calculation (default: use it if available) : --with-libintl-prefix[=DIR] search for libintl in DIR/include and DIR/lib : --without-libintl-prefix don't search for libintl in includedir and libdir You've understood that the documentation of "--without-PACKAGE" is using the all-caps PACKAGE as a metasyntactic variable, which you're supposed to replace with the name of the package you want to do without. This wasn't really explained but you figured it out anyway; congratulations on getting that far. The other unexplained thing, which you didn't figure out, is that the stuff below the generic --with-PACKAGE and --without-PACKAGE lines, from "--with-gnu-ld" to "--without-libintl-prefix", is the complete list of valid PACKAGEs. I don't know why the generic --with-PACKAGE and --without-PACKAGE lines are included in the help output. Their presence seems to imply that the list of valid values for PACKAGE is open-ended, but then you immediately get a complete list. I think the help would be more helpful if those top 2 lines were deleted. The same goes for the enable/disable section. (I also think the distinction between with/without and enable/disable is something that isn't helpful to anyone but the people maintaining the autoconf scripts. If there was an upper layer that made --enable an alias for --with and --disable an alias for --without, the users would probably be grateful for it.) So, the specific things you tried were wrong because: > > Initially tried ./configure --enable-md5sum but this gave > > configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --enable-md5sum md5sum isn't a feature you can enable/disable (--enable-FEATURE). The help output lists them all. > > and proceeded anyway. > > When `make' was run, many errors were reported, concerning expr.c (see > next section). Since these concern the expr command which was not > really > needed, tried repeating ./configure using --without-PACKAGE > ./configure --without-expr expr isn't a package you can with/without (--without-PACKAGE). The help output lists them all. It's great that after all this trouble you've held on to your optimistic belief that there must be some way of configuring just the program you want, if only you can just find the right syntax. Sadly, it just isn't so. Ideally, "make src/md5sum" or "make -C src md5sum" would work, but the Makefiles in coreutils aren't quite good enough for it to work out of the box. Some dependencies are missing. But if your first attempt got far enough to blow up on expr.c, "make -C src md5sum" might actually work afterward. > 3. Some problems with configure > > Retried make, redirecting the output to a log file. The errors in expr > were more extensive than realised before. The first error is > expr.c:54:18: error: gmp.h: No such file or directory > > It seems that configure has made an incorrect decision about the > availability of gmp, which is not available (but is placed ready to be > installed along with the gcc sources. It had previously been established > that it was a Prerequisite). > > Noted that config.status has > D["HAVE_GMP"]=" 1" It sounds like configure found your not-yet-installed gmp and tried to use it, with disastrous results. This is the part of the bug report where you should include your config.log, so we can see exactly how that HAVE_GMP became 1. And I won't be surprised if it turns out to be a bug that's already fixed in 8.21. > and the expr.c source tests this. It seems that configure has > incorrectly decided that gmp is available, and expr.c fails to find > the header, > and all other errors arise from this. > > Since the expr.c source allowed for the test failing, it seemed > possible > to proceed without gmp. So config.status was modified so that > D["HAVE_GMP"]=" 0" Editing a config.status by hand? That sure shows bravery and determination. I'm quitting here. The rest of the story needs to be read by someone who actually knows MacOS. -- Alan Curry From unknown Wed Sep 10 01:08:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13912: Feedback on coreutils 8.13 Resent-From: Ellis N. Thomas Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:53:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13912 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alan Curry Cc: 13912@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13912-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13912.13631899567777 (code B ref 13912); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:53:02 +0000 Received: (at 13912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2013 15:52:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51553 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UFnyi-00021H-Lj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:52:33 -0400 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]:32491) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UFkv0-0005kY-EH for 13912@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:36:32 -0400 Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20130313123518.FBHH23282.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com>; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:35:18 +0000 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (really [86.13.144.237]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.3.00.04.00 201-2196-133-20080908) with ESMTP id <20130313123518.PUGL4627.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[10.0.1.2]>; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:35:18 +0000 Message-Id: <80DA33CA-716D-4044-8F67-0F655A1E0210@ntlworld.com> From: Ellis N. Thomas In-Reply-To: <20130309223807.2604.qmail@kosh.dhis.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:35:16 +0000 References: <20130309223807.2604.qmail@kosh.dhis.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=AUhbpHVS+xhHrj9wLCYAQoYnFLYUZdbP8UM0GmH2jwk= c=1 sm=0 a=1GoBOY1csmwA:10 a=uObrxnre4hsA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=KNeDkjSnAAAA:8 a=VIXVAeYcgs72AqvUZmEA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:52:31 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Alan, Many thanks for your rapid and sympathetic reply. One or two points about what you said embedded in parts of your reply starting <<< below. As you have appreciated, I seem to have been caught in a "can't do this until you have done that" sequence! But I now seem ready to proceed with building gcc. You finished by saying "The rest of the story needs to be read by someone who actually knows MacOS." - does this mean someone else will contact me, or do I need to forward any information? See also below about config.log. Thanks, Ellis By the way my background is that I have retired after working some years in the development of software for embedded systems (defence and aerospace). When I was in Cambridge University, England, studying Computer Science, my supervisor was Stephen Bourne, who seems to be the same person that later produced the Bourne Shell. But my college course in 1969 was before Unix was developed! On 9 Mar 2013, at 22:38, Alan Curry wrote: > ... > Thanks for writing up your experience. Even though it's mostly a > series of > bad choices, they were choices that only an outsider would make, so > they do > reveal things that the insiders haven't thought of. > <<< Actually the only choice that mattered was to edit config.status! <<< The attempts to use --enable- and --with- options seemed to be ignored. > ... > I found this surprising. I would have expected md5sum to be > installed with > the OS. So I googled "md5sum macos" and the first result is a page > with > installation instructions for a standalone package called > "md5sha1sum". That > would probably be easier to install than coreutils, since it's much > smaller. > I wonder how you managed to skip over it. <<< What I found from a Google search was that Mac OS X has an md5 command <<< for similar use and man indicated this was a specific usage of openssl. <<< However, it did not seem to provide the checking features of md5sum and <<< worse its options did not match the man or info page (e.g. by trying md5 -h)! <<< I probably just assumed that this was Apple's currently available feature here. <<< It seemed easier to get md5sum than try to write a script to call md5 scanning <<< the files listed in the file provided with gcc. > and coreutils decided to make YET ANOTHER ONE (xz) mandatory. > "Compression > format of the week" is a frustrating game! So I completely > understand your > decision that...the only way to win is not to play. (If you did > choose to play, googling > "macos xz" looks promising.) > <<< I had established that xz is available at http://tukaani.org/xz/, but did not feel <<< inclined to start downloading from yet another site! The Gnu site does not <<< seem to mention handling xz files at all! <<< By the way, Googling "macos xz" gave the response "Did you mean 'mac os x'?" <<< and only showed xz when overridden! > ... > You've understood that the documentation of "--without-PACKAGE" is > using the > all-caps PACKAGE as a metasyntactic variable, which you're supposed to > replace with the name of the package you want to do without. This > wasn't > really explained but you figured it out anyway; congratulations on > getting > that far. <<< Actually at first (until I found an example) I thought it meant to use <<< --enable-FEATURE=abc > > The other unexplained thing, which you didn't figure out, is that > the stuff > below the generic --with-PACKAGE and --without-PACKAGE lines, from > "--with-gnu-ld" to "--without-libintl-prefix", is the complete list > of valid > PACKAGEs. > > ... > md5sum isn't a feature you can enable/disable (--enable-FEATURE). > The help > output lists them all. > ... > expr isn't a package you can with/without (--without-PACKAGE). The > help > output lists them all. > > It's great that after all this trouble you've held on to your > optimistic > belief that there must be some way of configuring just the program > you want, > if only you can just find the right syntax. Sadly, it just isn't so. <<< For coreutils (a suite of more or less unrelated commands) the actual <<< meanings of FEATURE and PACKAGE did not seem to be well described. > > Ideally, "make src/md5sum" or "make -C src md5sum" would work, but the > Makefiles in coreutils aren't quite good enough for it to work out > of the > box. Some dependencies are missing. <<< As I said before "it would help if it was possible to select specific parts of <<< coreutils" easily. > It sounds like configure found your not-yet-installed gmp and tried > to use > it, with disastrous results. This is the part of the bug report > where you > should include your config.log, so we can see exactly how that > HAVE_GMP > became 1. And I won't be surprised if it turns out to be a bug > that's already > fixed in 8.21. <<< If it would help I can send the config.log, but it is 5.3MB - this takes us back <<< into compression formats! I seem to be able to do easily gzip, bzip2, and <<< compress! >> ... So config.status was modified so that >> D["HAVE_GMP"]=" 0" > > Editing a config.status by hand? That sure shows bravery and > determination. <<< When I examined the expr.c source it was clear that conditional compilation <<< catered for omitting gmp, and I searched all files timed stamped around the <<< time I'd run configure to see where the flag was established. It was only later <<< that I found "--without-gmp" ! From unknown Wed Sep 10 01:08:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13912: Feedback on coreutils 8.13 Resent-From: Bob Proulx Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 04:26:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13912 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Ellis N. Thomas" Cc: 13912@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13912-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13912.13634079496357 (code B ref 13912); Sat, 16 Mar 2013 04:26:01 +0000 Received: (at 13912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Mar 2013 04:25:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57054 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UGigl-0001eT-V9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 00:25:48 -0400 Received: from joseki.proulx.com ([216.17.153.58]:42054) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UGigj-0001eL-DN for 13912@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 00:25:46 -0400 Received: from hysteria.proulx.com (hysteria.proulx.com [192.168.230.119]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB78D211DA; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 22:24:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by hysteria.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BB80C2DCE0; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 22:24:23 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 22:24:23 -0600 From: Bob Proulx Message-ID: <20130316042423.GA6584@hysteria.proulx.com> References: <20130309223807.2604.qmail@kosh.dhis.org> <80DA33CA-716D-4044-8F67-0F655A1E0210@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <80DA33CA-716D-4044-8F67-0F655A1E0210@ntlworld.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) Ellis N. Thomas wrote: > As you have appreciated, I seem to have been caught in a "can't do > this until you have done that" sequence! But I now seem ready to > proceed with building gcc. Not to stop someone from working the problem and doing a good job of it but it might be easier to simply install a GNU/Linux software distribution on a system. Then you would get everything all working all at the same time. It would probably be the easier way to go. But certainly if you are willing to work through the problems then I have no doubt that you will have it working on your system. > You finished by saying "The rest of the story needs to be read > by someone who actually knows MacOS." - does this mean someone else > will contact me, or do I need to forward any information? See also > below about config.log. It was a comment that Alan had already spoken what he knew and didn't know more about MacOS to say any more than that. And I am in the same position. I don't use MacOS and so know nothing about it. I can only suggest that someone else who knows about MacOS would need to jump in and help. This is like tag team wrestling. Except we have no idea if there is someone else to jump in or not. This is a free(dom) software project. People voluteer time and resources because we think it is worthwhile. There is no paid support. Any help comes from people who volunteer the help out of the goodness of their heart. If someone is using MacOS and has information then I am sure they will jump in and volunteer help. But there is no coordination on our end for it. Most of us use the GNU system. That is the whole point of it after all. We are "eating our own dogfood" as they say. So I think it is unlikely that we would have someone here who has bootstrapped themselves using an Apple system. Unlikely. But who knows? > By the way my background is that I have retired after working some > years in the development of software for embedded systems (defence > and aerospace). When I was in Cambridge University, England, > studying Computer Science, my supervisor was Stephen Bourne, who > seems to be the same person that later produced the Bourne Shell. > But my college course in 1969 was before Unix was developed! Thank you for sharing that interesting history! You were indeed lucky to have been involved at the very beginning. It has been an interesting time for certain. Although it might take some time to make the tools to make the tools to make the tools I am sure that if you persevere that you will be able to bootstrap yourself to a fully working system. Please take notes along the way and make those available to others who might want to follow in your footsteps. If in a future mailing you wish to simply discuss a topic then please mail to the coreutils@gnu.org mailing list address. That is our discussion list. The bug-coreutils@gnu.org address is used for bug tracking. As you can see from the email every message there creates a bug ticket in the bug tracking system. Which is great for tracking individual bugs so that they do not get lost. (Please submit one bug per bug report. No doubling up on bugs please.) But for general discussion please use the coreutils@gnu.org discussion list. Bob From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 20 16:46:11 2013 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2013 20:46:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38089 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UIPtj-0003fb-2A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:46:11 -0400 Received: from joseki.proulx.com ([216.17.153.58]:45693) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UIPtg-0003fU-Vs for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:46:09 -0400 Received: from hysteria.proulx.com (hysteria.proulx.com [192.168.230.119]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0772F211DA for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:44:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by hysteria.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8C7C02DCC4; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:44:20 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:44:20 -0600 From: Bob Proulx To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: closing 13912 Mac OS feedback Message-ID: <20130320204420.GA23915@hysteria.proulx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) close 13912 thanks Also sending a follow-up to the bug log separately. From unknown Wed Sep 10 01:08:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13912: Feedback on coreutils 8.13 Resent-From: Bob Proulx Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 20:49:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13912 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Ellis N. Thomas" Cc: 13912@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13912-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13912.136381248814334 (code B ref 13912); Wed, 20 Mar 2013 20:49:02 +0000 Received: (at 13912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2013 20:48:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38096 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UIPvb-0003j8-EC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:48:07 -0400 Received: from joseki.proulx.com ([216.17.153.58]:45701) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UIPvY-0003it-Ki for 13912@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:48:05 -0400 Received: from hysteria.proulx.com (hysteria.proulx.com [192.168.230.119]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889F2211DA; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by hysteria.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 264162DCC4; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:46:17 -0600 From: Bob Proulx Message-ID: <20130320204616.GA21925@hysteria.proulx.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Ellis N. Thomas" , 13912@debbugs.gnu.org References: <20130309223807.2604.qmail@kosh.dhis.org> <80DA33CA-716D-4044-8F67-0F655A1E0210@ntlworld.com> <20130316042423.GA6584@hysteria.proulx.com> <5DE7FACE-A9D4-4078-96F9-44DD07607AE6@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5DE7FACE-A9D4-4078-96F9-44DD07607AE6@ntlworld.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) Ellis N. Thomas wrote: > As I said before: "The different effect for this Mac version might > or might not be of relevance to Gnu developers!". You would be surprised. Most of us have spent a large portion of our lives porting software from one platform to another! :-) > If it would help, I am prepared to make separate bug reports for > these matters. On the other hand perhaps there is no point in following > up problems in this old version of coreutils. (What I wanted is working > OK.) Yes. Please report each bug separately. Because each reported bug is tracked in the BTS (bug tracking system) and will be fixed individually. Mixing multiple bugs and topics in one bug report makes it very difficult to follow. Small individually targeted bugs are easier to work through and more likely to be fixed than one big bag of many things. This message thread is a good travelogue of your journey but I don't see a particular bug to be fixed. Therefore I have marked this bug ticket as closed. Please feel free to continue adding information to it. If you want to *discuss* something without opening a bug ticket please send discussion to the coreutils@gnu.org address. If you find a bug please send them individually to the bug-coreutils@gnu.org address where each message (like this one) will open a bug ticket that is tracked. If you have several bugs please report them individually. One bug per report please. Feel free to discuss them on the discussion list first. Bob From unknown Wed Sep 10 01:08:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13912: Feedback on coreutils 8.13 Resent-From: "Ellis N. Thomas" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 00:37:09 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13912 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Bob Proulx Cc: 13912@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13912-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13912.136391259813148 (code B ref 13912); Fri, 22 Mar 2013 00:37:09 +0000 Received: (at 13912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Mar 2013 00:36:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39569 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UIpyG-0003Pr-CZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 20:36:38 -0400 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]:18897) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UINe7-00008F-OD for 13912@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:21:57 -0400 Received: from aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20130320182008.OGI23282.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com>; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 18:20:08 +0000 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (really [86.13.144.237]) by aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.3.00.04.00 201-2196-133-20080908) with ESMTP id <20130320182008.ESCM11790.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[10.0.1.2]>; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 18:20:08 +0000 Message-Id: <5DE7FACE-A9D4-4078-96F9-44DD07607AE6@ntlworld.com> From: "Ellis N. Thomas" In-Reply-To: <20130316042423.GA6584@hysteria.proulx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 18:20:05 +0000 References: <20130309223807.2604.qmail@kosh.dhis.org> <80DA33CA-716D-4044-8F67-0F655A1E0210@ntlworld.com> <20130316042423.GA6584@hysteria.proulx.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=GaEGOwq9FwezmTggA+b6yC6zDZF2HYaK6RN/tSqdnVA= c=1 sm=0 a=1GoBOY1csmwA:10 a=uObrxnre4hsA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=kQ_pcbCJuXos4gjRllIA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=ii61gXl28gQA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 20:36:31 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Bob, Thanks for your reply. Actually I don't think details of MacOS itself matter very much. In this case I am using it at the Unix level, using xterm. The Mac windows interface runs on top of the Darwin Unix kernel. At xterm level, much of the available set of commands seems to be Gnu derived anyway, such as bash --version GNU bash, version 3.2.17(1)-release (i386-apple-darwin9.0) gcc --version i686-apple-darwin9-gcc-4.0.1 (GCC) 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465) As included in my original message, the use of "make check" reported an error, that might be new for this Darwin release, "FAIL: install/install-C". In addition, failures that were already described in the README from coreutils 8.13 for Darwin 9.1 were not reported for Darwin 9.8.0. As I said before: "The different effect for this Mac version might or might not be of relevance to Gnu developers!". If it would help, I am prepared to make separate bug reports for these matters. On the other hand perhaps there is no point in following up problems in this old version of coreutils. (What I wanted is working OK.) Thanks Ellis On 16 Mar 2013, at 04:24, Bob Proulx wrote: > It was a comment that Alan had already spoken what he knew and didn't > know more about MacOS to say any more than that. And I am in the same > position. I don't use MacOS and so know nothing about it. I can only > suggest that someone else who knows about MacOS would need to jump in > and help. ... > The bug-coreutils@gnu.org address is used for bug > tracking. As you can see from the email every message there creates a > bug ticket in the bug tracking system. Which is great for tracking > individual bugs so that they do not get lost. (Please submit one bug > per bug report.