From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Xue Fuqiao Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 13810@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.136178671410614 (code B ref -1); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:06:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2013 10:05:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48941 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9uvp-0002l8-Om for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:05:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38570) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9uvm-0002l0-3G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:05:11 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U9uu9-0007ig-7H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:03:31 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, T_DKIM_INVALID, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:41595) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U9uu9-0007iY-1n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:03:29 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49890) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U9uu4-0000Kp-5h for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:03:28 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U9uu0-0007gr-U5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:03:24 -0500 Received: from mail-pb0-f42.google.com ([209.85.160.42]:46033) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U9uu0-0007gl-NM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:03:20 -0500 Received: by mail-pb0-f42.google.com with SMTP id xb4so1589976pbc.29 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 02:03:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:organization:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SPKCWUALcRKK5HImBIn5Pgvj0xhcMpLt67b1U7XWxjc=; b=Dc3yTenoFFE0CbzhaQXcDzHh/9QFDyXD9z6B3ut74W4+VdDoHd3TmOOwNdnCTYelNK lVtuTWbwSBGH4g6DGVG9vcOc9C+5xpUVzMuz64mLGJf4X0ijEb1Q5lzp7SY/pe2EohUr Dw0iNIgwtLOBuXLyW0RlnjHRsOnmEAbOXdUbNuCggJ0l9gmBdQ4nguVPu9JevTg3DIR+ XQNkSpXcpM4Ed/UZ1KQ7hIv2sv/h1eSVzahsu88QCveJPNWfBNp7vQd91pZZ+NtYW7qn CupLjIVpwDsQc8czgunoMeNH2eIukpDEag1YWRMq2lgnm5Dq+EYGckALGwlJbNNuIKFi ii8g== X-Received: by 10.66.72.233 with SMTP id g9mr17938281pav.29.1361786599900; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 02:03:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([123.114.126.135]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t4sm13241660pax.0.2013.02.25.02.03.15 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 02:03:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:03:09 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao Message-Id: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) In the doc string of the function `newline': Insert a newline, and move to left margin of the new line if it's blank. To reproduce this bug: emacs -Q M-< M-: (newline) RET A new line appears, but the point doesn't move to left margin of the first line. Maybe the doc string of this function should be improved. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.6.0) of 2013-02-24 on Emacs Bzr revision: 111865 rgm@gnu.org-20130223220645-ym5xjdm8i09p2huy Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11300000 System Description: Ubuntu 12.10 Configured using: `configure --config-cache --enable-link-time-optimization' Important settings: value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: e m - r e C-g r e - e m - b u Recent messages: For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. Quit Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr emacsbug message format-spec rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Stephen Berman Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 12:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Xue Fuqiao Cc: 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.136179523022996 (code B ref 13810); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 12:28:01 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2013 12:27:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49035 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9x9C-0005yr-7K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 07:27:10 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:50086) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9x98-0005yh-Gi for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 07:27:08 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.32]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Ld330-1UaWOa3eL2-00iA02 for <13810@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:23:16 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 25 Feb 2013 12:23:16 -0000 Received: from i59F56285.versanet.de (EHLO rosalinde.fritz.box) [89.245.98.133] by mail.gmx.net (mp032) with SMTP; 25 Feb 2013 13:23:16 +0100 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/1NVVWI1r1sboTgPUe3AEh+PrcLwl/XTRwaxfHyK j8i2CQGjDC9mAE From: Stephen Berman References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:23:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> (Xue Fuqiao's message of "Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:03:09 +0800") Message-ID: <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:03:09 +0800 Xue Fuqiao wrote: > In the doc string of the function `newline': > > Insert a newline, and move to left margin of the new line if it's > blank. > > To reproduce this bug: > > emacs -Q > M-< > M-: (newline) RET > > A new line appears, but the point doesn't move to left margin of the > first line. I think you misread the doc string: point should -- and does -- move to the left margin of the *new* line. > Maybe the doc string of this function should be improved. However, unless I'm misreading it, there is indeed room for improvement, since point moves to the left margin of the new line whether or not it is blank, so "if it's blank" is misleading and should be deleted. Your report prompted me to check the code of newline and I think I found a bug: a comment says, "If the newline leaves the previous line blank, and we have a left margin, delete that from the blank line", but the code only checks whether the previous line consists of a *single* space or tab, so if there's more than one space or tab and the line is otherwise blank, these won't be deleted. I doubt this asymmetry is intended, so at least the following patch should be made: === modified file 'lisp/simple.el' *** lisp/simple.el 2013-02-15 23:47:50 +0000 --- lisp/simple.el 2013-02-25 12:20:47 +0000 *************** *** 400,406 **** "Propertized string representing a hard newline character.") (defun newline (&optional arg) ! "Insert a newline, and move to left margin of the new line if it's blank. If option `use-hard-newlines' is non-nil, the newline is marked with the text-property `hard'. With ARG, insert that many newlines. --- 400,406 ---- "Propertized string representing a hard newline character.") (defun newline (&optional arg) ! "Insert a newline, and move to left margin of the new line. If option `use-hard-newlines' is non-nil, the newline is marked with the text-property `hard'. With ARG, insert that many newlines. *************** *** 428,434 **** (save-excursion (goto-char beforepos) (beginning-of-line) ! (and (looking-at "[ \t]$") (> (current-left-margin) 0) (delete-region (point) (line-end-position)))) --- 428,434 ---- (save-excursion (goto-char beforepos) (beginning-of-line) ! (and (looking-at "[ \t]+$") (> (current-left-margin) 0) (delete-region (point) (line-end-position)))) Actually, if we take the comment literally, the code should check that the space left on the previous line has the length of left-margin, and only in that case delete it. But I think the comment doesn't really intend that, but rather to delete any whitespace left on an otherwise blank line, which the above patch does. Steve Berman From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Xue Fuqiao Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 12:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stephen Berman Cc: 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.136179659628358 (code B ref 13810); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 12:50:02 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2013 12:49:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49041 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9xVE-0007NK-7B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 07:49:56 -0500 Received: from mail-pb0-f53.google.com ([209.85.160.53]:63453) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9xVB-0007NC-7g for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 07:49:54 -0500 Received: by mail-pb0-f53.google.com with SMTP id un1so1650217pbc.26 for <13810@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 04:48:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:organization:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6rEyQUZ2/LV5Gt7HIEIAIcaPN9Crwb0llu8NYJbLSJ0=; b=hO44suzhZYm+YBpU6aMO+Q4wVwpAwLi8bLvIT/b9QZLFyW0WUjgkTLT90pr4KSYqKm XIO6h17KCxluHwXJro/+xfGjgDFuXphMlzMvHzBSurtXQU6Qcr6TUKKPFBE+Ug8mrua3 qOq9cjdmRzpVacU/CZ3DciF3iQPSQXuuxYKEVvN8gsCV1i3D4pVBBc22wC89ihl5mbWF Ia0olhVg+pBsQbt4+rx3pxsoqj53XLVUvBF7JumWBNLDahA9ymERinPMaEUsxKzvTE53 hXTHJv+migjhtrjssha5TOr5Bm5AwlgejuqHncYRvASyBj5zUUMFJ9PoeiQCJW4BauAj 7zDA== X-Received: by 10.66.52.116 with SMTP id s20mr19023962pao.70.1361796492824; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 04:48:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([123.114.126.135]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u10sm13647147pax.14.2013.02.25.04.48.08 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 04:48:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:48:06 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao Message-Id: <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:23:14 +0100 Stephen Berman wrote: > On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:03:09 +0800 Xue Fuqiao wrote: > > In the doc string of the function `newline': > > Insert a newline, and move to left margin of the new line if it's > > blank. > > To reproduce this bug: > > > > emacs -Q > > M-< > > M-: (newline) RET > > A new line appears, but the point doesn't move to left margin of the > > first line. > I think you misread the doc string: point should -- and does -- move to > the left margin of the *new* line. You mean the *new* line is the second line (now)? > Your report prompted me to check the code of newline and I think I found > a bug: a comment says, "If the newline leaves the previous line blank, > and we have a left margin, delete that from the blank line", but the > code only checks whether the previous line consists of a *single* space > or tab, so if there's more than one space or tab and the line is > otherwise blank, these won't be deleted. What does the "left margin" mean? I'm a little confused here. Does it mean the "margin" in the variable `left-margin-width'? BTW there is another problem with the doc string of the function `newline'. The `auto-fill-function' in the doc string is somewhat ambiguous. It is a Lisp function in simple.el, but it is also is a variable defined in buffer.c. > Steve Berman -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Stephen Berman Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:08:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Xue Fuqiao Cc: 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.136179763729870 (code B ref 13810); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:08:01 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2013 13:07:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49062 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9xm1-0007lj-Ij for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:07:17 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:56316) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9xly-0007lY-R6 for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:07:16 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.16]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKfbV-1UAF7x0PF1-001ysh for <13810@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:05:34 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 25 Feb 2013 13:05:33 -0000 Received: from i59F56285.versanet.de (EHLO rosalinde.fritz.box) [89.245.98.133] by mail.gmx.net (mp016) with SMTP; 25 Feb 2013 14:05:33 +0100 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18I5Eo64HcIEFjInLNt6TGESYZ7lUiIpEd4cXpw2r mWpL1l8QIyIuLJ From: Stephen Berman References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:05:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> (Xue Fuqiao's message of "Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:48:06 +0800") Message-ID: <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:48:06 +0800 Xue Fuqiao wrote: > On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:23:14 +0100 > Stephen Berman wrote: > >> On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:03:09 +0800 Xue Fuqiao wrote: >> > In the doc string of the function `newline': >> > Insert a newline, and move to left margin of the new line if it's >> > blank. >> > To reproduce this bug: >> > >> > emacs -Q >> > M-< >> > M-: (newline) RET >> > A new line appears, but the point doesn't move to left margin of the >> > first line. >> I think you misread the doc string: point should -- and does -- move to >> the left margin of the *new* line. > > You mean the *new* line is the second line (now)? Yes; I think that's the only interpretation that makes sense when newline is called at point-max, so for consistency it should be interpreted that way everywhere. >> Your report prompted me to check the code of newline and I think I found >> a bug: a comment says, "If the newline leaves the previous line blank, >> and we have a left margin, delete that from the blank line", but the >> code only checks whether the previous line consists of a *single* space >> or tab, so if there's more than one space or tab and the line is >> otherwise blank, these won't be deleted. > > What does the "left margin" mean? I'm a little confused here. Does it mean > the "margin" in the variable `left-margin-width'? No, it's referring to (the result of setting) the variable left-margin, which is different from left-margin-width. > BTW there is another problem with the doc string of the function `newline'. > The `auto-fill-function' in the doc string is somewhat ambiguous. It is a > Lisp function in simple.el, but it is also is a variable defined in buffer.c. The doc string of newline says "Call `auto-fill-function'..."; you can only call a function, not a variable (I suppose you can call a variable something, but not just call it). Steve Berman From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Stephen Berman Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Xue Fuqiao Cc: 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.136179844431051 (code B ref 13810); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:21:01 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2013 13:20:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49067 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9xz1-00084m-TQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:20:44 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:57520) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9xyz-00084f-Pd for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:20:42 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.12]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M6hNy-1V6LL63msO-00wXjS for <13810@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:19:00 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 25 Feb 2013 13:19:00 -0000 Received: from i59F56285.versanet.de (EHLO rosalinde.fritz.box) [89.245.98.133] by mail.gmx.net (mp012) with SMTP; 25 Feb 2013 14:19:00 +0100 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19mOFU8c1ZmHPO0LHmawBiiskCO8MgZ2O2eRBlCuV hXYo8Aa28S19x6 From: Stephen Berman References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:18:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> (Xue Fuqiao's message of "Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:48:06 +0800") Message-ID: <87k3pwsf98.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:48:06 +0800 Xue Fuqiao wrote: > On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:23:14 +0100 > Stephen Berman wrote: > >> On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:03:09 +0800 Xue Fuqiao wrote: >> > In the doc string of the function `newline': >> > Insert a newline, and move to left margin of the new line if it's >> > blank. >> > To reproduce this bug: >> > >> > emacs -Q >> > M-< >> > M-: (newline) RET >> > A new line appears, but the point doesn't move to left margin of the >> > first line. >> I think you misread the doc string: point should -- and does -- move to >> the left margin of the *new* line. > > You mean the *new* line is the second line (now)? It just occurred to me that your confusion was probably due to thinking of the newline character (C-j, line feed, "\n"), which is inserted at the end of the line before the new line. In the doc string the two words "new line" unambiguously refer to the line after the inserted newline character that results from calling newline, but the first word "newline" should perhaps be replaced by "newline character" or "line feed". Steve Berman From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Xue Fuqiao Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stephen Berman Cc: 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.136179898531800 (code B ref 13810); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2013 13:29:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49071 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9y7k-0008Gr-R9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:29:45 -0500 Received: from mail-pa0-f42.google.com ([209.85.220.42]:59025) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9y7h-0008Gh-Vx for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:29:43 -0500 Received: by mail-pa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id kq12so1754196pab.1 for <13810@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:28:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:organization:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=fH6ykf0eRkb2kNIrtKQdQlodt7JRgl3lS3JjwfT3Sng=; b=DV9ItgTP+YokiOyLcgz2OCdEiwo38PqvmM1csjvaPSLKZIXPL9Qhe3OjeoRWwFhwRE 222CbueAtJC5uYIXXO+wV0q21bwhb6ijyGPNgM96BJkuS7naaS6toe0IMLisO0JLtJuf +HcYgKwi9q7ivd24f4blC3woTIGxfDitJTdw/tgv4IWcmNLvy7wLOi5hkR2nBoGHo7Ca V3ljIQnTBrYCcyQqlg2ecACa/kot9WZ++hSuKQJ6IHJ6nJ45QsVAVza282/uy4iFPAVa mQsPZGVknVSMAIIju7O4XwfBrM+hPBXT4aYIaHy9OL8RHRJLltZb5S2N4Yg73+o05fTP b26g== X-Received: by 10.68.213.132 with SMTP id ns4mr18408016pbc.84.1361798881841; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:28:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([123.114.126.135]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id vd4sm12750022pbc.35.2013.02.25.05.27.54 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:28:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 21:27:42 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao Message-Id: <20130225212742.dcfd2a0b66f473545c131b14@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:05:31 +0100 Stephen Berman wrote: > On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:48:06 +0800 Xue Fuqiao wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:23:14 +0100 > > Stephen Berman wrote: > >> On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:03:09 +0800 Xue Fuqiao wrote: > >> > In the doc string of the function `newline': > >> > Insert a newline, and move to left margin of the new line if it's > >> > blank. > >> > To reproduce this bug: > >> > > >> > emacs -Q > >> > M-< > >> > M-: (newline) RET > >> > A new line appears, but the point doesn't move to left margin of the > >> > first line. > >> I think you misread the doc string: point should -- and does -- move to > >> the left margin of the *new* line. > > You mean the *new* line is the second line (now)? > Yes; I think that's the only interpretation that makes sense when > newline is called at point-max, so for consistency it should be > interpreted that way everywhere. I see, thanks. > >> Your report prompted me to check the code of newline and I think I found > >> a bug: a comment says, "If the newline leaves the previous line blank, > >> and we have a left margin, delete that from the blank line", but the > >> code only checks whether the previous line consists of a *single* space > >> or tab, so if there's more than one space or tab and the line is > >> otherwise blank, these won't be deleted. > > What does the "left margin" mean? I'm a little confused here. Does it mean > > the "margin" in the variable `left-margin-width'? > No, it's referring to (the result of setting) the variable left-margin, > which is different from left-margin-width. Ah, I see. But in (info "(emacs) Glossary"), the term "margin" only contains the meaning from `left-margin-width'. Is it another bug? > > BTW there is another problem with the doc string of the function `newline'. > > The `auto-fill-function' in the doc string is somewhat ambiguous. It is a > > Lisp function in simple.el, but it is also is a variable defined in buffer.c. > The doc string of newline says "Call `auto-fill-function'..."; you can > only call a function, not a variable (I suppose you can call a variable > something, but not just call it). 1. The variable contains the *function* called to perform auto-fill; 2. In (info "(elisp) Documentation Tips"): However, when a symbol has both a function definition and a variable definition, and you want to refer to just one of them, you can specify which one by writing one of the words `variable', `option', `function', or `command', immediately before the symbol name. However, I think most people know that the `auto-fill-function' here refers to its function cell. So it is a very minor problem. > Steve Berman -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Xue Fuqiao Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stephen Berman Cc: 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.136179945332520 (code B ref 13810); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:38:01 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2013 13:37:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49089 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9yFE-0008SO-Un for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:37:33 -0500 Received: from mail-pa0-f45.google.com ([209.85.220.45]:56559) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9yF8-0008SA-4u for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:37:27 -0500 Received: by mail-pa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id kl14so1765274pab.4 for <13810@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:35:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:organization:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=kacCcmdxsoC2UdKuH8GjJPWt7Oa4RNvNlMI7w+4jEVE=; b=EQ4h61YTKaMlBF4qE0eMxexHyCfjB8ikf8VJmW4DUro7TJ+NTFFtkA+F5OPM/InZjq 2noVeakfPf4zh13O1e8KQTrrrnMbaifvK/0DPjJuUImu9KwaFLFmPBGt+TYp38GpYrzj svE1TQ74LLaRDPVyaUfV8rTbb9PZL+VleBYSMJJgbUbuYT4qx8D/dDIXzyYNEw1J5Feb bUsE4c4nSIDdGL6fvCAIbP+lFpjil/d8uiKNYeOE7xvkS0RSYMUH2ofVsbxCiiea1AXT eORgLtvuD39nYHDsnc/ucLqLxqCbMvz24Tsc2YSSGGpJvq5y0ybqOQ5Tvqe27U2d7O69 REvQ== X-Received: by 10.66.219.134 with SMTP id po6mr18745333pac.175.1361799342037; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([123.114.126.135]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id vd4sm12768631pbc.35.2013.02.25.05.35.31 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:35:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 21:35:22 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao Message-Id: <20130225213522.e176a678f0f63acb1c2dd393@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87k3pwsf98.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> <87k3pwsf98.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:18:59 +0100 Stephen Berman wrote: > >> > In the doc string of the function `newline': > >> > Insert a newline, and move to left margin of the new line if it's > >> > blank. > >> > To reproduce this bug: > >> > emacs -Q > >> > M-< > >> > M-: (newline) RET > >> > A new line appears, but the point doesn't move to left margin of the > >> > first line. > >> I think you misread the doc string: point should -- and does -- move to > >> the left margin of the *new* line. > > You mean the *new* line is the second line (now)? > In the doc string the two > words "new line" unambiguously refer to the line after the inserted > newline character that results from calling newline, but the first word > "newline" should perhaps be replaced by "newline character" or "line > feed". Sounds fine for me. > Steve Berman -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 15:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stephen Berman Cc: Xue Fuqiao , 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.136180635310413 (code B ref 13810); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 15:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2013 15:32:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49745 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UA02Z-0002hs-Dj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:32:33 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:27087) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UA02Y-0002hm-Nx for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:32:31 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFHO+KLv/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHgbBLZEKA4hhnBmBXoMV X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFHO+KLv/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHgbBLZEKA4hhnBmBXoMV X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="2402435" Received: from 206-248-162-239.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.162.239]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 25 Feb 2013 10:30:49 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 199406BD7C; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:30:50 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:30:50 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> (Stephen Berman's message of "Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:05:31 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > The doc string of newline says "Call `auto-fill-function'..."; you can > only call a function, not a variable (I suppose you can call a variable > something, but not just call it). Yet, I think that newline doesn't call the `auto-fill-function' function, but the function contained in the `auto-fill-function' variable. Stefan From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 15:53:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Xue Fuqiao Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.136180756212620 (code B ref 13810); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 15:53:01 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2013 15:52:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49762 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UA0M2-0003HM-3P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:52:41 -0500 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:48396) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UA0Lx-0003H7-9A for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:52:37 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MIS00B009BFKT00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:50:21 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MIS00BA49BX3G90@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:50:21 +0200 (IST) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:50:14 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <20130225212742.dcfd2a0b66f473545c131b14@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <834nh0jsuh.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225212742.dcfd2a0b66f473545c131b14@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) > Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 21:27:42 +0800 > From: Xue Fuqiao > Cc: 13810@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > What does the "left margin" mean? I'm a little confused here. Does it mean > > > the "margin" in the variable `left-margin-width'? > > No, it's referring to (the result of setting) the variable left-margin, > > which is different from left-margin-width. > > Ah, I see. But in (info "(emacs) Glossary"), the term "margin" only contains > the meaning from `left-margin-width'. Is it another bug? The glossary is not the place where to look for all the possible meanings of "margin". Type "i margin RET" and see there; if it tells you there are more than one hit, type comma ',' to walk through all of them. From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Stephen Berman Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:46:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Xue Fuqiao , 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.136181075118955 (code B ref 13810); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:46:01 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2013 16:45:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49831 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UA1BP-0004vY-Ju for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 11:45:47 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:63551) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UA1BM-0004vP-45 for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 11:45:42 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.33]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Llskg-1Uj4rG20y8-00ZNwP for <13810@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:43:58 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 25 Feb 2013 16:43:58 -0000 Received: from i59F56285.versanet.de (EHLO rosalinde.fritz.box) [89.245.98.133] by mail.gmx.net (mp033) with SMTP; 25 Feb 2013 17:43:58 +0100 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+xcJJDhaWxtBnnZnqEoLzbAMkGkRuyazlC+84ePz 0Ggg3dA3lOjD76 From: Stephen Berman References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:43:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:30:50 -0500") Message-ID: <87d2vos5ro.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:30:50 -0500 Stefan Monnier wrote: >> The doc string of newline says "Call `auto-fill-function'..."; you can >> only call a function, not a variable (I suppose you can call a variable >> something, but not just call it). > > Yet, I think that newline doesn't call the `auto-fill-function' > function, but the function contained in the > `auto-fill-function' variable. Still, it doesn't "call the variable" ;-). Anyway, isn't the potential for confusion here rather limited, since the function auto-fill-function is a noop just there for its doc string? Steve Berman From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Xue Fuqiao Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 22:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.136183170221664 (code B ref 13810); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 22:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2013 22:35:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50134 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UA6dS-0005dN-72 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:35:02 -0500 Received: from mail-pb0-f46.google.com ([209.85.160.46]:36852) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UA6dP-0005cx-4d for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:35:00 -0500 Received: by mail-pb0-f46.google.com with SMTP id uo15so1933827pbc.33 for <13810@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:33:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:organization:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CD8lP1n7yYq24Xbyh9AKwomihpMwmNlMZt2Xyz636A4=; b=WB3nZQyTvfEzJ94AxWaec+6HjAbc3K7opKJ6qCXXjpjR32u/rZBB4Sx37H0zYI9Cjk 4pd92vYVyOAnVjOL1yzQB2UOy4Hk03nGgtR7RptMaCQn1uDZu33ViZUAGekv61DhzFnU tx7ct0fxeh+LiMdaGQ7p9P6c3IfBs07uX/f9LEY8O6Gkr4y+iWQxayPbg3Sn3DHnZV49 q43TpWCO+IHx+60iBuDV/i0U3VGCm+Go5Gr3ONulSSI0QWgF+XOIapBczikxESZ/8d3P hqIZYWWY4lWzt66BpOpw89s2+cqRC4A8GvIzgHby7qurUBPNAx81vdZPLaBZWLHOBqNT xp2w== X-Received: by 10.68.213.7 with SMTP id no7mr20264927pbc.48.1361831596447; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:33:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([61.149.230.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id iv3sm14012308pbc.40.2013.02.25.14.33.13 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:33:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 06:33:11 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao Message-Id: <20130226063311.c2146008207b905d3cb83070@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <834nh0jsuh.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225212742.dcfd2a0b66f473545c131b14@gmail.com> <834nh0jsuh.fsf@gnu.org> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:50:14 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > The glossary is not the place where to look for all the possible > meanings of "margin". Why? Because it has to be brief? -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 03:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Xue Fuqiao Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.136185051921068 (code B ref 13810); Tue, 26 Feb 2013 03:49:01 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2013 03:48:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50268 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UABWw-0005Tl-DP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 22:48:39 -0500 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:58012) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UABWs-0005Tb-Jl for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 22:48:35 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MIT00I006DNCY00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 05:46:50 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MIT00IYI6I2CT10@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 05:46:50 +0200 (IST) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 05:46:44 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <20130226063311.c2146008207b905d3cb83070@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83k3pvivob.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225212742.dcfd2a0b66f473545c131b14@gmail.com> <834nh0jsuh.fsf@gnu.org> <20130226063311.c2146008207b905d3cb83070@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 06:33:11 +0800 > From: Xue Fuqiao > Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13810@debbugs.gnu.org > > On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:50:14 +0200 > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > The glossary is not the place where to look for all the possible > > meanings of "margin". > > Why? Because it has to be brief? Because it doesn't pretend to cover everything. I do agree that it would be good in this particular case to add the other meaning of "margin" to the glossary, though. From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 15:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: Xue Fuqiao , stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.157996678932228 (code B ref 13810); Sat, 25 Jan 2020 15:40:02 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2020 15:39:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56245 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ivNXJ-0008Nk-J1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 10:39:49 -0500 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:36794) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ivNXI-0008NX-C0 for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 10:39:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=fUhlcR7Ix7tVZRUrYo/RIwmaTRQgl8/7vdofDujTghI=; b=iwNu21TBMR25Ixdx0iavaIDMM+ XTgWuH/5fRA2iLF086ucYJigM3hJwhYkkRaQutWiL0P8L7w6CTy+sHOBR9UtdhHE+YjzQ+jJiYjOj fszZ3Ef/nf8YywP3sbSm50CvHTrFnE6ao2kz4FiQYyEvruVNHk+Qe5ZSNo/i6OhizPMtZLpDRA6Oj WxZ8rgi3gi//1QApU+Nr7j6Icez5e6Qia1BMJiUZRP/GemzZ++jUSijwPJYTaKikD6Y939TDvM5uf 3WwBMquRLe6sI078b0DGBkvymukJHUNRqoAkMDM6oLbfPHMTeobaJkEz2mouag28Be9f2cFaPg2Q8 gjjyTDYQ==; Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:59844 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ivNXB-000KrH-Ot; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 10:39:42 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83k3pvivob.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 26 Feb 2013 05:46:44 +0200") References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225212742.dcfd2a0b66f473545c131b14@gmail.com> <834nh0jsuh.fsf@gnu.org> <20130226063311.c2146008207b905d3cb83070@gmail.com> <83k3pvivob.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 16:39:37 +0100 Message-ID: <87pnf77dfq.fsf@marxist.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 06:33:11 +0800 >> From: Xue Fuqiao >> Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13810@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:50:14 +0200 >> Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> > The glossary is not the place where to look for all the possible >> > meanings of "margin". >> >> Why? Because it has to be brief? > > Because it doesn't pretend to cover everything. > > I do agree that it would be good in this particular case to add the > other meaning of "margin" to the glossary, though. I'm not sure it's worth mentioning in this context to be honest. One possibility would be to instead rename `left-margin' to something like `indent-column' or `electric-indent-column' so we can get rid of this terminological confusion altogether. In my testing I'm also confused as to what the `left-margin' variable is supposed to do. I tried: 1. emacs -Q 2. M-x fundamental-mode 3. M-x set-variable RET left-margin RET 3 RET Now `newline' (RET) does not indent to column 3. However, `electric-newline-and-maybe-indent' (C-j) does indent to that column. This seems to contradict the doc string of `left-margin', which says "Linefeed indents to this column in Fundamental mode." I also found some possibility for improving the doc string of `newline', and propose the attached patch. WDYT? Best regards, Stefan Kangas --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=0001-Improve-doc-string-of-newline.patch >From 9b120aaa635b95bb19f3151f88f50fd04b4ac25c Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 16:21:06 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] Improve doc string of 'newline' * lisp/simple.el (newline): Doc fix. Move 'use-hard-newlines' down, since it's less important than the meaning of the prefix argument, and is less frequently used than 'electric-indent-mode' and 'auto-fill-mode'. Change the wording to no longer call it an option. (Bug#13810) --- lisp/simple.el | 7 ++++--- 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) diff --git a/lisp/simple.el b/lisp/simple.el index 8be27745b1..2ec3da680f 100644 --- a/lisp/simple.el +++ b/lisp/simple.el @@ -503,9 +503,7 @@ hard-newline (defun newline (&optional arg interactive) "Insert a newline, and move to left margin of the new line if it's blank. -If option `use-hard-newlines' is non-nil, the newline is marked with the -text-property `hard'. -With ARG, insert that many newlines. +With prefix argument ARG, insert that many newlines. If `electric-indent-mode' is enabled, this indents the final new line that it adds, and reindents the preceding line. To just insert @@ -514,6 +512,9 @@ newline If `auto-fill-mode' is enabled, this may cause automatic line breaking of the preceding line. A non-nil ARG inhibits this. +If `use-hard-newlines' is enabled, the newline is marked with the +text-property `hard'. + A non-nil INTERACTIVE argument means to run the `post-self-insert-hook'." (interactive "*P\np") (barf-if-buffer-read-only) -- 2.20.1 --=-=-=-- From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 17:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.157997288316642 (code B ref 13810); Sat, 25 Jan 2020 17:22:01 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2020 17:21:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56276 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ivP7a-0004KM-MS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 12:21:22 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57157) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ivP7Y-0004K9-Qe for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 12:21:21 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60491) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ivP7T-0005Oh-6r; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 12:21:15 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2861 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ivP7S-0003KW-43; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 12:21:14 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 19:20:59 +0200 Message-Id: <83imkzpi4k.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87pnf77dfq.fsf@marxist.se> (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 25 Jan 2020 16:39:37 +0100) References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225212742.dcfd2a0b66f473545c131b14@gmail.com> <834nh0jsuh.fsf@gnu.org> <20130226063311.c2146008207b905d3cb83070@gmail.com> <83k3pvivob.fsf@gnu.org> <87pnf77dfq.fsf@marxist.se> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Stefan Kangas > Cc: Xue Fuqiao , stephen.berman@gmx.net, > 13810@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 16:39:37 +0100 > > 1. emacs -Q > 2. M-x fundamental-mode > 3. M-x set-variable RET left-margin RET 3 RET > > Now `newline' (RET) does not indent to column 3. However, > `electric-newline-and-maybe-indent' (C-j) does indent to that > column. This seems to contradict the doc string of `left-margin', > which says "Linefeed indents to this column in Fundamental mode." Linefeed is not RET, nor "newline". It's C-j. > I also found some possibility for improving the doc string of > `newline', and propose the attached patch. WDYT? That's OK, but it's unrelated, isn't it? From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 18:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.157997554520699 (code B ref 13810); Sat, 25 Jan 2020 18:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2020 18:05:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56296 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ivPoX-0005Nn-Lq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 13:05:45 -0500 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:48384) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ivPoW-0005Nb-PP for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 13:05:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=wXl4UC/53gmzH5LOajNR+a6/stHkCzUcXUcM4qJQ/mQ=; b=UM2JV4gZhMoC8QZAxYGSjnAD7c nAbf/58gAyjrgqwf3IpsfgJpVQn5W6MFZ8mKikmm5L8h+ueO6tm04FgrCDA1aHlZVrt1nHFzWMzQu KPGED32VZVf5ZVfOYNS5HoB3LDyvTAcIvl1p5jI95zCppEPWl/ToNyuMD/pUBoK8WOxRnkPsM5Twg hF4wNUasWFIQebBkD6vH5AqB3wD/IubFHwhlFy6YuzVfKFw3VxfT2G0eavbaOZaHuARTeAvxz/ysR 12TmoofTLGFxUDeWPbTBPD3LA+15JyoCGWdBpy30JCTeI8G+EYPeHs4RiVMWcp4WRbBNIe5hnpVFF 7JXq3e+Q==; Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:56822 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ivPoR-000qh0-1D; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 13:05:39 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83imkzpi4k.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 25 Jan 2020 19:20:59 +0200") References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225212742.dcfd2a0b66f473545c131b14@gmail.com> <834nh0jsuh.fsf@gnu.org> <20130226063311.c2146008207b905d3cb83070@gmail.com> <83k3pvivob.fsf@gnu.org> <87pnf77dfq.fsf@marxist.se> <83imkzpi4k.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 19:05:37 +0100 Message-ID: <87ftg376oe.fsf@marxist.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Linefeed is not RET, nor "newline". It's C-j. Where is this documented? I can't find "linefeed" in the index of the Emacs manual, nor in the glossary. >> I also found some possibility for improving the doc string of >> `newline', and propose the attached patch. WDYT? > > That's OK, but it's unrelated, isn't it? Yes, it's somewhat tangential. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 18:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.157997701422995 (code B ref 13810); Sat, 25 Jan 2020 18:31:02 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2020 18:30:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56303 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ivQCE-0005yp-Lf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 13:30:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45774) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ivQCD-0005yY-1k for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 13:30:13 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33165) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ivQC7-0003vg-FW; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 13:30:07 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3489 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ivQC6-0003Dx-DK; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 13:30:07 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 20:29:53 +0200 Message-Id: <83ftg3pexq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87ftg376oe.fsf@marxist.se> (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 25 Jan 2020 19:05:37 +0100) References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225204806.e306ddd2a7cc317dd370d019@gmail.com> <87obf8sfvo.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <20130225212742.dcfd2a0b66f473545c131b14@gmail.com> <834nh0jsuh.fsf@gnu.org> <20130226063311.c2146008207b905d3cb83070@gmail.com> <83k3pvivob.fsf@gnu.org> <87pnf77dfq.fsf@marxist.se> <83imkzpi4k.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftg376oe.fsf@marxist.se> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Stefan Kangas > Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13810@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 19:05:37 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Linefeed is not RET, nor "newline". It's C-j. > > Where is this documented? It's that character's official name, and supposed to be "common knowledge". Go to the end of any line in an Emacs buffer, and type "C-u C-x =" -- Emacs will show the name of the character in the *Help* buffer it pops up. From unknown Mon Jun 23 00:35:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#13810: 24.3.50; Docstring of `newline' is confusing Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2020 14:37:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stephen Berman Cc: Xue Fuqiao , 13810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13810.160069896826988 (code B ref 13810); Mon, 21 Sep 2020 14:37:01 +0000 Received: (at 13810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2020 14:36:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55675 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kKMvI-00071D-EE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2020 10:36:08 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49234) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kKMvG-00070k-Pq for 13810@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2020 10:36:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=lAjr3qol5GE0/uDrBbcs2fi+txy4idini/I5N9clUeI=; b=oBNRZaZc0z9jsai+rnNGDgT/ar v3tmGnBUmfqP0aOECjcI1RDvxsVqJcoAPVvAoQPowzk5bx641UkUCJKPp2AxnxfQfpBV7i+PvmhKC OT5DlQ7zY8fg4KqaA3hGynn0X5hP6kGs6dh36up6yqhQhTVZ5YZ2PT/4opBqPfTATBbQ=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kKMv7-0005LY-Jk; Mon, 21 Sep 2020 16:36:00 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <20130225180309.53675e52a9cffc46b2478578@gmail.com> <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> X-Now-Playing: LCD Soundsystem's _This Is Happening_: "You Wanted A Hit" Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2020 16:35:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87y5ecshu5.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> (Stephen Berman's message of "Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:23:14 +0100") Message-ID: <87pn6fmc37.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stephen Berman writes: > Your report prompted me to check the code of newline and I think I found > a bug: a comment says, "If the newline leaves the previous line blank, > and we have a left margin, delete that from the bl [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stephen Berman writes: > Your report prompted me to check the code of newline and I think I found > a bug: a comment says, "If the newline leaves the previous line blank, > and we have a left margin, delete that from the blank line", but the > code only checks whether the previous line consists of a *single* space > or tab, so if there's more than one space or tab and the line is > otherwise blank, these won't be deleted. I doubt this asymmetry is > intended, so at least the following patch should be made: Thanks; I've now applied your patch to Emacs 28. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 21 10:37:13 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2020 14:37:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55688 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kKMwK-00073K-V7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2020 10:37:13 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49258) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kKMwJ-000739-WA for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2020 10:37:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=LCmP0HFlCj2bg5xCvLTE4scO1x/0+jaS+IWSZY6q3+g=; b=eHtHZ7u+tUSFUqs22xWKQwA7as dDhz1Lf9j7baNhtue0a26yzRuwCqnwc/OCclTCpwFABa4B3mPVS6ztI6qfp+auwsm1uplek+kJwar QCOxFHZ+WV+ALq1nyRGcOg1zHABaahpt6PK4GsyznShIt2fZtmoPliT98D6oDtgAQRfs=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kKMwC-0005MG-6G for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2020 16:37:06 +0200 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2020 16:37:03 +0200 Message-Id: <87o8lzmc1c.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #13810 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 13810 fixed close 13810 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 13810 fixed close 13810 28.1 quit